No codes, Car Shudders at low speeds

noguice · Post by **noguice** » Sun Jan 31, 2016 2:10 pm

I've got a 2005 Base model, Auto, FWD, Moon&Tunes, Vibe with around 175k miles.

At around 40 mph and slowly accelerating to 50, or going up hill the car will shudder, once it's up to speed it will do fine, until going up hill again.
It Idles rougher than it used to, and may or may not shudder a bit when starting off at a light.

This had happened initially about 5 months ago. Then, I did a general tune up with new plugs and coils and eventually replaced both the cam position sensor and the MAF sensor. Once I replaced the MAF sensor, it seemed to fix it.

4 Months later, it started the same thing. First thing I did was replace the MAF sensor again since it was under warranty, but no change.
With some research I started testing other possibilities.

Checked the throttle position sensor (integrated into the throttle body) and it would read 15% =/- at rest and 80% at WOT. Some of what i read said this was indicative of a bad sensor, so i replaced the whole TB... No improvement.

Next thing was to check the O2 sensors... stripping the threads on the upstream, i went on and replaced it and the downstream together... No Improvement.

Reading about vacuum leaks, I've replaced the Intake gasket with the proper orange Toyota part and torqued everything to spec, replaced and/or checked out what vacuum hoses i can find and tried the carb cleaner test without finding any leaks. Also replaced the PCV valve. No improvement.

The Short Term Fuel Trim is reading within normal range of single digit percentages + and -

Obviously, I don't want to throw any more parts at this thing If I can help it, but if anyone has suggestions of what else to check, please let me know. I'm going to keep looking for other vacuum leaks as well.

There has been no Check Engine Light, and using my scanner, i'm not getting any codes. I'm using a bluetooth OBDII http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005NL ... ge_o07_s00 and have used both Torque OBDII and Dash Command, if anyone has any other suggestions on OBDII Apps to check out, I'll be happy to get one of those to try.

kumquat · Post by **kumquat** » Sun Jan 31, 2016 2:27 pm

My first thought was vacuum leak. There are hoses you don't know about and won't see. You need to do a proper vacuum test. You can use a vacuum gauge (cheap ones at Harbor Freight), starter fluid, or you can do it right and have a mechanic do a smoke test. If your code reader has a real-time gauge you can look at the MAP data also, to give you an indication.

noguice · Post by **noguice** » Sun Jan 31, 2016 8:41 pm

kumquat wrote:My first thought was vacuum leak. There are hoses you don't know about and won't see. You need to do a proper vacuum test. You can use a vacuum gauge (cheap ones at Harbor Freight), starter fluid, or you can do it right and have a mechanic do a smoke test. If your code reader has a real-time gauge you can look at the MAP data also, to give you an indication.

Thanks, I'll probably look at grabbing one of those gauges soon.
Would a bad purge valve cause this sort of issue? While I don't get an error code, the last item to check off as complete when I reset the computer is always the Evap system. So I wonder if there's something in that causing a problem that the computer's just not catching.

vibrologist · Post by **vibrologist** » Mon Feb 01, 2016 7:30 am

Could be. But I don't think that is why EVAP appears last. It is probably just the sequence.

There are plenty of hoses that could cause a vacuum leak. I agree with kumquat that this sounds like a vacuum leak. There are some unusual places that are easy to overlook. I.e. if the seal under the oil cap is bad air can be sucked in and go through the PCV valve into the intake. If the membrane in the brake booster leaks air will move through the brake booster hose. What I am saying do not limit yourself to the immediate periphery of the intake, follow the hoses back as well.

kumquat · Post by **kumquat** » Mon Feb 01, 2016 8:04 am

FYI, the gauge I'm talking about at HF isn't sold as a "vacuum gauge" even though it is. It's sold as a brake bleeder kit, and it has a vacuum pump with some hoses and various tips to fit onto other hoses. Item #69328. It helped me locate a vacuum leak on my old Grand Am. Just hook it up to any convenient vacuum hose, pull a vacuum, and see if the negative pressure holds. If it doesn't, you have a leak. Now you have to find it.

jolt · Post by **jolt** » Mon Feb 01, 2016 9:02 am

When was the last time you've checked the valve clearance or have had the AT serviced?

noguice · Post by **noguice** » Tue Feb 02, 2016 10:53 am

jolt wrote:When was the last time you've checked the valve clearance or have had the AT serviced?

Neither have been done in the 2 years I've owned the car, Couldn't tell you if it had before. It seems to shift just as well as the previous vibe I had (17k miles and a year old when i got that one), so the trans hasn't been a focus, but couple probably stand a service anyway. I'm used to doing more than 90% of my repairs/maintenance myself and have no idea how much professional work costs, what's an average for the valve clearance check?

I'm having to balance cost right now as with our 3rd child on the way, its likely i'll be letting go of the vibe in the next few months, need to know where to cut the losses on a sale.

noguice · Post by **noguice** » Tue Feb 02, 2016 11:16 am

vibrologist wrote:Could be. But I don't think that is why EVAP appears last. It is probably just the sequence.

There are plenty of hoses that could cause a vacuum leak. I agree with kumquat that this sounds like a vacuum leak. There are some unusual places that are easy to overlook. I.e. if the seal under the oil cap is bad air can be sucked in and go through the PCV valve into the intake. If the membrane in the brake booster leaks air will move through the brake booster hose. What I am saying do not limit yourself to the immediate periphery of the intake, follow the hoses back as well.

I've finally got codes:
P0441: Incorrect Purge Flow
P0455 - Evap leak

These didn't show up until after swapping out some hoses (I asked AZ for vacuum line, and they gave me fuel line, not sure if it's cinching down tight enough) After retightening, i'll give it some time and see if the codes persist.

I've also attempted a test on the purge valve to see if it's functioning. I've seen this done just using a 9v to power the solenoid, but haven't had any luck with that yet, and a bit leary of jumping straight off the battery.

I'm going to order the proper fitted hoses and go from there, the original hoses were showing dry rot at the ends anyway.

vibrologist · Post by **vibrologist** » Tue Feb 02, 2016 8:11 pm

I'm going to order the proper fitted hoses and go from there, the original hoses were showing dry rot at the ends anyway.

There you go. In addition I suggest you check all the vacuum lines at their ends. If they are hardened replace them. Check the gasket at the tank lid as well.

noguice · Post by **noguice** » Tue Feb 02, 2016 9:56 pm

vibrologist wrote:
I'm going to order the proper fitted hoses and go from there, the original hoses were showing dry rot at the ends anyway.
There you go. In addition I suggest you check all the vacuum lines at their ends. If they are hardened replace them. Check the gasket at the tank lid as well.

I'm hunting thru parts sites and even Toyota/GM's sites and am having a hard time finding the specific hoses that go from the intake manifold to the purge valve and from that to the firewall, is there a good source and diagram of these somewhere? Otherwise, is there a specific hose size to do these myself? I purchased 3/8" fuel hose, but that seems big (but could be clamped down).

vibrologist · Post by **vibrologist** » Wed Feb 03, 2016 7:58 am

I have not done this but I have done something similar to that in a Mazda Protege. Take a piece of the original hose and walk to the counter of your favorite parts store. Ask them if they have this kind of hose on the reel. Buy 15 ft.
There is a diagram under the hood.
Good luck!

noguice · Post by **noguice** » Sat Feb 06, 2016 4:27 pm

So far I've replaced every vacuum line I can find.
Testing with the Harbor Freight vacuum pump, should the line from behind the vent solenoid (firewall side) hold a vacuum? This is taken directly from the firewall with the solenoid out of the loop.

I replaced all the lines leading from the intake to the brake booster and tested it and it will hold a vacuum.
Replaced the PCV hose with the proper fitted hose.

It seemed to idle smoother, but it's still having the same driving issues.

Will move on to smoke test.
Has anyone tried this?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMok2y05jNE

Also thinking about swapping the fuel pump, That would give me a chance to swap out gaskets on it as well.

noguice · Post by **noguice** » Sat Feb 06, 2016 5:05 pm

what's the best way to check the fuel pressure on one of these cars?

noguice · Post by **noguice** » Sat Feb 06, 2016 6:51 pm

As the radiator and hoses are on my to-do list for replacement already. Would the coolant temp sensor cause the rough idle and stuttering?
http://www.lotuselancentral.com/repair/cts.htm

I have noticed that when the car is cold it seems to run well until it's up to operating temp. The gauge never goes above the halfway point. There is some leaking from the edge of the core (why i'll be replacing it) but I've done my best to keep coolant full.

vibrologist · Post by **vibrologist** » Sat Feb 06, 2016 8:06 pm

Use a fuel pressure gauge borrowed from the parts store.

Yes you need to fix the coolant system.
Some cars have two separate ECTs. A cheap one for the gauge and a very accurate one for the computer. I do not know how our cars are in that respect. But if the computer gets wrong data it can cause all kinds of trouble.

Then there is a worry: if the cooling system was compromised for any length of time there is a greater chance for the head gasket to fail.

I think I would first have a look at the the spark plugs. The way they look can tell you a lot.

https://images.search.yahoo.com/images/ ... rt=mozilla

jolt · Post by **jolt** » Sun Feb 07, 2016 11:07 am

Check your spark plugs and coils. Also do a compression check when you have the spark plugs out. A leak down test would be better but it depends on the test equipment you have. Install the OEM spark plugs and see if the engine misfire under load goes away, if that is what the problem is. When you say shudder at around those speeds and load, I think back on a bad automatic transmission converter were the lock up clutch was bad in the converter; was not a Vibe. So when the engine is cold (open loop for the ecm), it runs fine?

Also read this thread and see symptoms on last post: viewtopic.php?p=509872#p509872

Just because you replaced parts does not mean that the new part is good now. You may save yourself a lot of time and money by taking it to a good repair shop that has the proper test equipment to diagnoses the problem. A place that has test equipment that can read sensor inputs in real time, which you are not going to get with a sub $1000.00 tester, as the problem only shows up under load and 40 to 50 mph as you stated above. Your doing a lot of guessing, and you might get lucky, but it is also costing you a lot money and time.

noguice · Post by **noguice** » Sun Feb 07, 2016 9:08 pm

Well,
Fiddled with it some more today. The ECT sensor was pretty cheap, so i went on and swapped it out. At first it seemed to have it fixed, but after a few miles it was having a low speed shutter.
I checked all the spark plugs, 3 looked perfectly fine and the 4th (furthest to the driver's side) was similar with small amount of deposits. I swapped it's coil with one of the original coils, but there were no changes.

I did check the trans fluid and while warm is was about halfway between the hot and cold mark, so i added enough to top it off, but that didn't seem to change anything. I'm holding off on having any transmission work done until the new radiator comes in and I can install it.

In the meantime, i've been browsing the threads. This one seemed to closely describe my issue.
viewtopic.php?f=17&t=19113&p=208371&hil ... ng#p208371

As it's a drive by wire, It mentioned resetting the pedal position sensor. Unfortunately the link provided to the procedure is not working. I've seen other cars with a similar procedure where you turn the car to the on position without starting it, then pumping the pedal, turning the car off, then letting it sit for 20 min or so. Does anyone know what the procedure on the Vibe is? Figure it's worth a shot.

noguice · Post by **noguice** » Sun Feb 07, 2016 9:17 pm

http://www.amazon.com/Standard-Motor-Pr ... dal+Sensor

and after looking at this, is the sensor on the pedal one of these? http://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php ... 59&jsn=450

I was looking on the throttle body for the sensor before finding out it was a DBW.

lannvouivre · Post by **lannvouivre** » Fri Feb 12, 2016 1:01 am

I think the procedure was turn ignition to ON, press and hold gas pedal 5 seconds, turn it off, release, and start it. Or it may be press pedal, turn on, hold 5 sec, release, turn off...try that in different combinations. I saw the procedure linked the other day and can't find it now...

Also, did you have the PCM recall performed?

vibrologist · Post by **vibrologist** » Fri Feb 12, 2016 7:50 am

I don't think it has been mentioned in this thread: the '05 base model had a recall on the ECU. I had mine replaced and drivability improved a lot. Check with your friendly GM dealer if your Vibe was included in the recall and if it was done.

noguice · Post by **noguice** » Fri Feb 12, 2016 9:40 pm

I did have the recall performed on the ECU a little over a year ago with a noticed improvement then, I kinda wondered if the new one could have been faulty.

I did do the pedal calibration and it really sharpened up the throttle response, but didn't have much impact on the other issues. Logically, I had my doubts since it's just sending info on the pedal position and not the throttle body's info. The car would know how fast you'd want it to go, but known nothing about the fuel/air ratio.

I did finally go on an swap to the OEM spark plugs this evening as was mentioned. I had installed Autolite AP3923 about 5 or 6 months back... Now it's got a proper set of Denso 3324s. I've only driven it 10 miles or so so far and it drove flawlessly, peppier than before all this started. Tomorrow i'll go give it a good shake down and see if that really fixed it.
I previously had little understanding about heat ranges and what not on a spark plug. Other than the number of electrodes and whether it was copper, platinum or iridium, I figured if it fit, it'd work. Apparently there's more too it... As much as I love this car as a daily driver, my dart was a lot more fun to tinker with

dart copy by LodeCreative, on Flickr

So comparing the specs of the Autolites to the Densos:
AutoLite Heat Range: E13
Denso Heat Range: 16

I don't know that that's apples to apples or not, but maybe that's been the problem.

If that's fixed, then onto the next project, swapping the radiator, hoses and Thermostat.

vibrologist · Post by **vibrologist** » Sat Feb 13, 2016 4:36 am

If you still have the old plugs could you post a picture of the electrodes?

I hear you on the Dart. http://www.curbsideclassic.com/curbside ... tal-mopar/

noguice · Post by **noguice** » Sun Feb 14, 2016 10:10 pm

vibrologist wrote:If you still have the old plugs could you post a picture of the electrodes?

I hear you on the Dart. http://www.curbsideclassic.com/curbside ... tal-mopar/

20160214_233115 by LodeCreative, on Flickr

20160214_233129 by LodeCreative, on Flickr

They don't look terrible (to me), but they are less than 6 months old.

Man, a Dart with a Slant 6, those are indestructible.... still tons of electrical issues, even the later electronic ignition cars, mine had a major electronic failure i never sorted out, eventually swapped for a 318 and just transplanted all the wiring from the donar.

Well, 40+ miles on the car so far without any of the driveability issues showing up. Those normally would show up within the first 2-5 miles. It did feel like it missed once at a traffic light (but my 90lb Bernese was in the back and she may have just been moving around, her panting is enough to shack the car) and it has a slightly heavier than normal vibration. Not sure if that is just from the relearn procedure or if there's still some issue to find.

I swapped the radiator and hoses today, but the thermostat got the better of me. It's not been giving me problems so I left it in... mainly because i stripped the head on an alternator bolt trying to get it out of the way. That's the worst thermostat location i've ever seen.

Will get it in sometime this week for a transmission service... Then probably post it for sale. Hate to give her up, but going to need a bigger back seat.

vibrologist · Post by **vibrologist** » Mon Feb 15, 2016 8:02 am

Thanks for the pictures.
These plugs were running a little too hot. The insulators should not look white but slightly tan.

: spark-plugs-guide.jpg (118.67 KiB) Viewed 11752 times

I am glad you liked the link about the Dart. CC is one of my favorite places on the net.

noguice · Post by **noguice** » Mon Feb 15, 2016 10:48 am

The fun just doesn't stop....

Drove it to work this morning, about 40 miles by interstate. Went to pass a slower car and the Transmission wouldn't drop back into overdrive until i slowed way down. The trans fluid was low after swapping the radiator, which i had put more in to top it off this morning, but apparently it was not enough. In any case, the oil pressure light came on, then the CEL. I managed to limp it off to the side and stop at a station to get towed home.

The Code is P0012 P0012 - "A" Camshaft Position - Timing Over-Retarded (Bank 1)

Everything on this points to the VVT Solenoid. I can get a genuine toyota part on amazon for a fair price. http://www.amazon.com/Genuine-Toyota-15 ... g+solenoid

I'll get that swapped out, then go trade it in.

Are the '09 vibes wider in the backseat? I do still like the car overall, just have had problems with this one.

vibrologist · Post by **vibrologist** » Mon Feb 15, 2016 11:43 am

You need to check transmission fluid level with the transmission warm, engine idling, parking on level ground. This fluid expands quite a bit and there is an overflow tank built into the transmission.
What happened to the engine oil?

A P0012 DTC trouble code may be caused by one or more of the following: Incorrect camshaft timing Wiring problems (harness/wiring) in intake timing control valve control solenoid system Continuous oil flow to VCT piston chamber Failed timing valve control solenoid (stuck open) Possible Solutions

Read more at: http://www.obd-codes.com/p0012
Copyright OBD-Codes.com

The main thing to check is to verify the operation of the VCT solenoid. You're looking for a sticking or stuck VCt solenoid valve caused by contamination. Refer to vehicle specific repair manual to perform component tests for the VCT unit. Notes: Dealer techs have advanced tools and the ability to follow detailed troubleshooting steps, including the ability to test components using a scan tool.

Read more at: http://www.obd-codes.com/p0012
Copyright OBD-Codes.com

Since you had the oil pressure light coming on I wonder if the oil level was low or the oil pump gave up. Maybe you should have sold the car a month ago?

noguice · Post by **noguice** » Mon Feb 15, 2016 11:47 am

vibrologist wrote:You need to check transmission fluid level with the transmission warm, engine idling, parking on level ground. This fluid expands quite a bit and there is an overflow tank built into the transmission.
What happened to the engine oil?

Not sure on the engine oil, maybe something clogged or wasn't moving enough for the higher rpm. Will drain and check.

noguice · Post by **noguice** » Mon Feb 15, 2016 12:06 pm

viewtopic.php?t=34751 maybe something to do with this.

vibrologist · Post by **vibrologist** » Mon Feb 15, 2016 1:10 pm

Inside the thread you refer to is this thing:
http://au.toyotaownersclub.com/forums/i ... sstrainers

noguice · Post by **noguice** » Mon Feb 15, 2016 2:24 pm

Right.

Found one online for about $6. Figured it was worth it. I'll wait until i have both it and the solenoid in hand to do anything on it. If the old solenoid seems fine, I can always return the new one. otherwise I guess we'll see what happens.

noguice · Post by **noguice** » Fri Feb 19, 2016 11:43 pm

Well, i've replaced the solenoid and the filter, ran an engine flush through and changed the oil & filter and now i've got a very loud valve tapping noise... yay.

vibrologist · Post by **vibrologist** » Sat Feb 20, 2016 10:41 am

What kind of flush did you use?

I personally stay away from any solvent based flushing procedures because they can dislodge fairly large junks of deposits that may clog an oil passage.
Frequent oil changes are a more gentle way of cleaning out an engine.

I would change the oil again and cut up the oil filter to see if it contains large particles. I would consider looking for particles at the solenoid filter.

using a stethoscope (a length of garden hose) you may be able to track down the location of the noisy lifter. Briansmobile on Youtube shows how he fixed a stuck lifter in a GM truck using B12-chem tool. Maybe your situation is similar enough.

noguice · Post by **noguice** » Sat Feb 20, 2016 11:16 am

vibrologist wrote:What kind of flush did you use?

I personally stay away from any solvent based flushing procedures because they can dislodge fairly large junks of deposits that may clog an oil passage.
Frequent oil changes are a more gentle way of cleaning out an engine.

I would change the oil again and cut up the oil filter to see if it contains large particles. I would consider looking for particles at the solenoid filter.

using a stethoscope (a length of garden hose) you may be able to track down the location of the noisy lifter. Briansmobile on Youtube shows how he fixed a stuck lifter in a GM truck using B12-chem tool. Maybe your situation is similar enough.

It's definitely coming from the passenger side of the engine. I was going to make a run to Harbor Freight and pick up some feeler gauges and a micrometer and prepare myself mentally to go through all the lifters and see if any need replacing. The old solenoid filter was pretty gunked up.

I used http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/moto ... otor+flush for the flush.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RecrxxLT4s

So, pull the cover and soak down the lifters with b12 carb cleaner, flush and refill?

vibrologist · Post by **vibrologist** » Sat Feb 20, 2016 2:07 pm

That's pretty much what Briansmobile did.

I am thinking the following might have happened to your engine:
the flush dislodged fairly large junks and clogged a passage to a lifter. Now the lifter lost oil that did not get replaced. That is why the engine got noisy AFTER the flush.
You could try doing another flush, or you could try the Briansmobile way.

If you tear into the engine look at this first:

Check Valve Lash: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U526fHMofak
Replacement Valve Lifter Shims: download/file.php?id=2671

noguice · Post by **noguice** » Sat Feb 20, 2016 4:25 pm

Thanks for that. The video is a lot less intimidating than this one
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5Pm9EFarVA where the guy take an air grinder to the inside of the tappet.

I'm going to go on and pop off the cover, check everything with a feeler gauge and go from there. If nothing is out of spec i'll hit it with the b-12. (I bought both spray can and pourable to run through the gas later). I'll run another flush and oil change and hope for the best.

noguice · Post by **noguice** » Sat Feb 27, 2016 3:42 pm

Well,
I finally had a chance to work on it again.

Pulled the valve cover, checked all the clearances and they all checked within spec. Nothing was loose and the chain looked perfect.
Next I soaked it down with the b-12 ChemTool and let that sit for a few minutes while i pulled the VVT solenoid and filter and checked them out (both were fine). Put the new gasket on the cove and mounted it back on the engine. Did another flush and changed the oil. And it's still making the noise.

Really loud at first, almost a tapping AND a clicking. Some of that noise went away after a few minutes of running. But here's what it sounded like before i shut it down for now.

https://youtu.be/ouh1YxsLyPk

not sure what to do next, let it idle awhile longer and see if it's just trying to get oil to the right places? Pull the pan and make sure nothing down there is messed up?

vibrologist · Post by **vibrologist** » Sat Feb 27, 2016 7:20 pm

Noguice:
This sounds terrible. It sounds like a rod knock to me. Do a compression test. The cylinder with the bad rod should show lower compression.

noguice · Post by **noguice** » Sat Feb 27, 2016 8:04 pm

So, I guess i'm dropping the pan tomorrow.

Going to cross my fingers on this that that it's just a bearing and not the crank.

noguice · Post by **noguice** » Sat Feb 27, 2016 10:28 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IlRmz1W-zL8

looks like fun.

vibrologist · Post by **vibrologist** » Sun Feb 28, 2016 9:08 am

Best of luck! I'll be thinking of you.

noguice · Post by **noguice** » Sun Feb 28, 2016 1:29 pm

Thanks,

I'm trying to get myself psyched up to do it, but this was our first 60+degree and sunny weekend in awhile. So off to the park instead today.
I'm just going to try to understand everything ahead of time so I don't get rushed and I save the frustration.

In the video I posted last, it shows the bearings/rods marked as 2 or 3, does that correspond to the oversize or undersize of the bearing as rockauto shows them? http://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/pont ... aring,5212 If so, is it in mm?

vibrologist · Post by **vibrologist** » Sun Feb 28, 2016 3:26 pm

Noguice:
I do not know. Honestly, I would not go with an mail order place in this case. I would go to the Toyota dealer or a local auto parts store, most likely NAPA. I would want to be able to talk to someone about these details.

noguice · Post by **noguice** » Sun Feb 28, 2016 5:54 pm

agreed.

Rockauto has not been too bad for most purchases, but even some of their items just don't work.

I bought this thru Amazon, it was the exact same item/part # on RockAuto and most other sites claiming it was for the base '05. It will screw in, but the connector doesn't match either location, upstream or down. Not having that chance to compare first hand just cost me time just trying to save a buck.

kumquat · Post by **kumquat** » Mon Feb 29, 2016 8:29 am

noguice wrote:agreed.

Rockauto has not been too bad for most purchases, but even some of their items just don't work.

I bought this thru Amazon, it was the exact same item/part # on RockAuto and most other sites claiming it was for the base '05. It will screw in, but the connector doesn't match either location, upstream or down. Not having that chance to compare first hand just cost me time just trying to save a buck.

That's a problem with the manufacturer's fitment list, not Rock Auto. Rock Auto is 100% awesome. Be sure to let them and the manufacturer know about the incompatibility.

noguice · Post by **noguice** » Wed Mar 02, 2016 9:15 pm

kumquat wrote:
noguice wrote:agreed.

Rockauto has not been too bad for most purchases, but even some of their items just don't work.

I bought this thru Amazon, it was the exact same item/part # on RockAuto and most other sites claiming it was for the base '05. It will screw in, but the connector doesn't match either location, upstream or down. Not having that chance to compare first hand just cost me time just trying to save a buck.
That's a problem with the manufacturer's fitment list, not Rock Auto. Rock Auto is 100% awesome. Be sure to let them and the manufacturer know about the incompatibility.

I actually bought it on Amazon, but yeah, it's the same part number as RA and other outlets, so I hold no beef with the sellers, just the manufacturer.

lannvouivre · Post by **lannvouivre** » Thu Mar 03, 2016 8:20 am

Here are service manual con rod marks for bearings:
1: 1.486 to 1.490 mm
2: 1.491 to 1.494 mm
3: 1.495 to 1.498 mm

When I overhauled my engine, I only needed to use STD bearings for proper clearance. Interestingly, the locations of the marks vary depending on whether TAIHO or FEDERAL MOGUL/GLYCO made the bearings for Toyota. If you're wondering, TAIHO's marks are on the exterior by the locating claws (lot number by the edge, the size mark is above the lot number), and F-M/G is marked on the interior by the locating claws.

Additionally, I recommend you buy MAHLE/Clevite and not the other brands. MAHLE is an OEM manufacturer as well as a high-performance specialist. You can also shoot Monkeywrenchracing an email and ask about the stamping.

noguice · Post by **noguice** » Sat Mar 05, 2016 1:59 pm

20160305_154448 by LodeCreative, on Flickr

From #1 cyl. Appears the bearing spun, thankfully there's no obvious visual damage to the rod or crankshaft so hopefully the new bearing will do the trick. I'll go on an polish the shaft as was shown in the previous video. There was less than a mile driven once the knock developed, so i'm hoping this was caught early enough and this fixes it.

The others look and feel fine, but I'll go on and swap their bearings while i'm at it.
They are all stamped with a 2, so that makes things easy enough.

vibrologist · Post by **vibrologist** » Sat Mar 05, 2016 3:32 pm

I am speechless.

noguice · Post by **noguice** » Sat Mar 05, 2016 6:48 pm

lannvouivre wrote:Here are service manual con rod marks for bearings:
1: 1.486 to 1.490 mm
2: 1.491 to 1.494 mm
3: 1.495 to 1.498 mm

When I overhauled my engine, I only needed to use STD bearings for proper clearance. Interestingly, the locations of the marks vary depending on whether TAIHO or FEDERAL MOGUL/GLYCO made the bearings for Toyota. If you're wondering, TAIHO's marks are on the exterior by the locating claws (lot number by the edge, the size mark is above the lot number), and F-M/G is marked on the interior by the locating claws.

Additionally, I recommend you buy MAHLE/Clevite and not the other brands. MAHLE is an OEM manufacturer as well as a high-performance specialist. You can also shoot Monkeywrenchracing an email and ask about the stamping.

It appears the MAHLE/Clevite bearings are aluminum. The bearings on the car are steel (at least ferous/magnetic). How do the aluminum bearings hold up?

noguice · Post by **noguice** » Sat Mar 05, 2016 7:38 pm

Don't know this guy, so i take this with a grain of salt. Apparently only the OEM parts are marked and any aftermarket parts are just marked as "standard". Still going to try to get them through the dealer, just got there too late today, will have to wait till monday, which with my work load this week means I won't be touching it again till next weekend.

http://www.yotatech.com/f120/con-rod-en ... st52074926