poor dashboard lightine

[vibrator1]

i'm new to the forum.
my 2003 vibe is one of the best cars I have ever owned.
my biggest criticism is the absolutely awful dashboard lighting.
on a sunny day the sun washes out the red lighting, making it difficult to see speed, gas, temp, etc.
I have asked my gm dealer if a brighter bulb can be installed.
he said no.
If I had the skills I think I would cut out the smoked glass covering the instrumentation and install clear glass.
anyone have this same problem. I have heard others complain about the dashboard lighting in what is otherwise a very nice vehicle.
I have my vibe serviced religiously, but if I every bought another car, it would have to be the vibe-like matrix. does the matrix also have this poor lighting design.
thanks for reading this.

[canadave]

Silly question here, but have you turned up the brightness knob on the instrument panel all the way? I'm not even sure there IS such a knob on a 2003...I know there is one on my 2004.

[vibrator1]

yes, I have.
it's always cranked up all the way, but on sunny days the instruments are very hard to read. everything is okay on a cloudy day or driving at night, but on sunny days, it's a problem.
thanks for your interest.
by the way does your later model instrument panel have the red lighting on the black background such as my 2003?

[kostby]

The 2004 to 2008 Vibes omit the dark tinted plastic that the 2003 has over the cluster and have revised bright white numbers and red markings and lettering on the instruments.

2003: http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=htt ... A&dur=1883" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

2004 and later: http://autos.yahoo.com/pontiac/vibe/200 ... ard/2.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

You CAN easily remove the chrome-rimmed black round bezels as a single piece. It pulls straight off toward the steering wheel, and once it's off, it is easy to physically remove the dark tinted plastic cover just beneath it. The cover also just snaps in place.

I've never looked, but I suppose the 2004-2008 plastic cover is clear, so you could probably find a clear one in a junkyard and replace the dark tinted plastic on your 2003.

Actually, I really love the 'disappearing' instruments of my 2003. That was one of the reasons I bought a 2003 after the 2004 models were already out!

[vibrator1]

kostby,
did/does the dash lighting on your 2003 vibe wash out and become hard to read on a sunny day?
also, i'm very interested in your tip on removing the bezel to replace the dark plastic glass underneath.
are there any screws anywhere holding the bezel in place? where do you start grabbing the bezel to start pulling it out? and even though the chrome bezel is one piece. I would imagine the dark plastic glass is one circular piece for each instrument cluster. the glass is about two inches or so below the bezel. how do you get down there to get the dark plastic pieces out.
finally, I live in the Chicago/northwest Indiana area. anyone know of any custom shop in the region that might do this kind of work.
I once asked my gm dealer if he could replace the dark glass with clear glass. he said no.

[kostby]

Outer trim bezel removed, showing attachment points. Inner dark-tinted plastic is still in place, and still VERY reflective.

IMG_2502.jpg (90.78 KiB) Viewed 4902 times

Bezel, and dark tinted plastic, removed.

IMG_2524.jpg (92.22 KiB) Viewed 4902 times

Instruments are clearly visible in daylight without the dash lights being on.

IMG_2522.jpg (110.77 KiB) Viewed 4902 times

Dealers don't know everything. Sometimes they just don't want to bother.

As I said, the instrument cluster bezel is removable.

There are no screws, just plastic tabs that fit into the notches as shown in the second photo.

With your left hand, grab the bezel between the large circle at the left and the large middle circle.
With your right hand, grab the entire bezel (not the chrome rings) between the small lower circle and the full lower circle.
Now pull the entire assembly toward the steering wheel.
The little 'reset button' for the odometer is slightly flexible, slides in and out, and is easy to remove (just pull), once the bezel is removed.

The bezel clips onto the instrument cluster at 8 points of attachment as shown in the top photo, 5 of the eight are doubled.
Still, I've never had any problem getting them off by just pulling straight out, as described above. It might be more difficult in winter, when plastic tends to get brittle.

And obviously, the top photo shows the shiny-reflective dark-tinted plastic that reflects the daylight so much, still in place, with the bezel removed.

The dark-tinted plastic is a single panel, and is trickier to remove, because there are also 8 points of attachment, but some are easier to get to than others. I started at the bottom-center and worked my way around clockwise, one at a time. I end up using a very small flat-blade screwdriver gently inserted from the front into the clip retainers on the white plastic of the actual instrument cluster behind the dark-tinted piece.

And yes, you CAN re-attach the outer bezel without replacing the dark-tinted plastic, because the bezel itself clips to the outer 'skin' of the dashboard, not the instrument cluster.

Over time, I suppose all the dust and gunk that gets captured by the dark-tinted plastic would accumulate on the face of the instruments, and the needle indicators are more likely to get damaged, but it's your car...

Now, go amaze your dealer!

{EDITED MULTIPLE TIMES BY KOSTBY}

[kostby]

IMG_2527.jpg (97.93 KiB) Viewed 4901 times

IMG_2526.jpg (79.36 KiB) Viewed 4901 times

There's a limit of 3 photos/attachments per post.
Just wanted to show the back of the bezel and the dark-tinted plastic, to give you a better idea of where the attachment points are, when you're working around it, trying to remove it.

[SeattleJeremy]

2003 to 2008 gauge clusters all have the same tinted plastic over the gauges. The 2003-2004 gauges are entirely red. The 05-08 gauges are white and red.

The knob only changes the brightness of the gauges when the headlights are on. During the day, when the daytime running lights are on, the brightness of the gauges is set to 100%.

Removing the plastic is an option, but this will lead to dust getting on the actual cluster.

It is possible to change the LED's lighting the cluster your self, but it's time consuming.
viewtopic.php?t=30617" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

You can also have a company change the LED's in your cluster. I haven't done much research on the companies that provide this service, but here is one I found.
http://store.ledmod.com/index.php?main_ ... ccss4lrb36" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[vibrator1]

IMG_2502.jpg

IMG_2524.jpg

IMG_2522.jpg

Dealers don't know everything. Sometimes they just don't want to bother.

As I said, the instrument cluster bezel is removable.

There are no screws, just plastic tabs that fit into the notches as shown in the second photo.

With your left hand, grab the bezel between the large circle at the left and the large middle circle.
With your right hand, grab the entire bezel (not the chrome rings) between the small lower circle and the full lower circle.
Now pull the entire assembly toward the steering wheel.
The little 'reset button' for the odometer is slightly flexible, slides in and out, and is easy to remove (just pull), once the bezel is removed.

The bezel clips onto the instrument cluster at 8 points of attachment as shown in the top photo, 5 of the eight are doubled.
Still, I've never had any problem getting them off by just pulling straight out, as described above. It might be more difficult in winter, when plastic tends to get brittle.

And obviously, the top photo shows the shiny-reflective dark-tinted plastic that reflects the daylight so much, still in place, with the bezel removed.

The dark-tinted plastic is a single panel, and is trickier to remove, because there are also 8 points of attachment, but some are easier to get to than others. I started at the bottom-center and worked my way around clockwise, one at a time. I end up using a very small flat-blade screwdriver gently inserted from the front into the clip retainers on the white plastic of the actual instrument cluster behind the dark-tinted piece.

And yes, you CAN re-attach the outer bezel without replacing the dark-tinted plastic, because the bezel itself clips to the outer 'skin' of the dashboard, not the instrument cluster.

Over time, I suppose all the dust and gunk that gets captured by the dark-tinted plastic would accumulate on the face of the instruments, and the needle indicators are more likely to get damaged, but it's your car...

Now, go amaze your dealer!

{EDITED MULTIPLE TIMES BY KOSTBY}

I can't thank you enough for the comprehensive display you have put together. now I understand the daunting task of trying to change the dark plastic cluster cover. now the search begins to try and acquire a later model cluster in clear plastic hoping the configuration is the same. meanwhile, seattle Jeremy, in the posting which follows yours suggested a company that sells "conversion kits" for the vibe dash cluster. I e-mailed them for more information on what the kit consists of.
I am not sure whether it is just a bunch of bulbs, or, perhaps the different colors they are referring to in the conversion kit might also include different colored plastic cluster covers. I notice one of the choices is which; but, as I said, I don't know whether this is white bulbs, white(clear plastic covers, or both) anyway I have learned a lot from you folks, am glad I found this forum and joined it.
thanks again to you both.

[vibrator1]

2003 to 2008 gauge clusters all have the same tinted plastic over the gauges. The 2003-2004 gauges are entirely red. The 05-08 gauges are white and red.

The knob only changes the brightness of the gauges when the headlights are on. During the day, when the daytime running lights are on, the brightness of the gauges is set to 100%.

Removing the plastic is an option, but this will lead to dust getting on the actual cluster.

It is possible to change the LED's lighting the cluster your self, but it's time consuming.
viewtopic.php?t=30617" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

You can also have a company change the LED's in your cluster. I haven't done much research on the companies that provide this service, but here is one I found.
http://store.ledmod.com/index.php?main_ ... ccss4lrb36" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

thanks for your reply. I have e-mailed the company for more information on their conversion kit.
I appreciate your help.

[joatmon]

2003 to 2008 gauge clusters all have the same tinted plastic over the gauges. The 2003-2004 gauges are entirely red. The 05-08 gauges are white and red.

The 2003 and 2004 clusters are interchangeable. However, there are variances, such as base or GT, US (english units) or Canadian (metric units) Only the 03 is all red. the 04's are red and white. I thought that the 04 was a lot easier to read and I put an 04 cluster in my 03.
Here is a pic of an 04 cluster and an 03 cluster



The 05-08 are similar, but the wiring is somewhat different. You could make one work, all things are possible, but I wouldn't count on it being direct swap interchangeable.

If you swap clusters, then remember that the odometer reading is stored in a chip on the cluster. There are ways to deal with that, but that's a write up I've been putting off for several years.

[runningslow]

I've experienced the same thing with my '06. I at least have the revised version with the white numbers that are clearly visible, but I have a hard time distinguishing the increments between them in the bright sunlight. I might have to track down a second gauge cluster and experiment with swapping out the LEDs.

[vibrator1]

2003 to 2008 gauge clusters all have the same tinted plastic over the gauges. The 2003-2004 gauges are entirely red. The 05-08 gauges are white and red.

The 2003 and 2004 clusters are interchangeable. However, there are variances, such as base or GT, US (english units) or Canadian (metric units) Only the 03 is all red. the 04's are red and white. I thought that the 04 was a lot easier to read and I put an 04 cluster in my 03.
Here is a pic of an 04 cluster and an 03 cluster



The 05-08 are similar, but the wiring is somewhat different. You could make one work, all things are possible, but I wouldn't count on it being direct swap interchangeable.

If you swap clusters, then remember that the odometer reading is stored in a chip on the cluster. There are ways to deal with that, but that's a write up I've been putting off for several years.

the later cluster is quite an improvement over the red one you show, which looks exactly like mine. did you do the work yourself? you mention the odometer issue. for folks like me who are not exceptionally handy I would probably have the job done by an experienced mechanic. any ball park estimate on what the newer cluster cost, and any guess on how much a mechanic might charge for the work, including correctly calibrating the odometer?
thanks.

[vibrator1]

I've experienced the same thing with my '06. I at least have the revised version with the white numbers that are clearly visible, but I have a hard time distinguishing the increments between them in the bright sunlight. I might have to track down a second gauge cluster and experiment with swapping out the LEDs.

I think the newer cluster shown, compared to the red 2003 cluster which looks like mine is quite an improvement. I really like the way the odometer window shows up. on a sunny day I can't read mine at all.
I am totally unfamiliar with the innards of the instrumentation, save for the excellent pictures sent by forum members responding to this thread. my question is; how do you get to the led's. does this mean you would have to disassemble the speedometer, etc. to get to them? how big of a job is that?
thanks.

[vibrator1]

IMG_2502.jpg

IMG_2524.jpg

IMG_2522.jpg

Dealers don't know everything. Sometimes they just don't want to bother.

As I said, the instrument cluster bezel is removable.

There are no screws, just plastic tabs that fit into the notches as shown in the second photo.

With your left hand, grab the bezel between the large circle at the left and the large middle circle.
With your right hand, grab the entire bezel (not the chrome rings) between the small lower circle and the full lower circle.
Now pull the entire assembly toward the steering wheel.
The little 'reset button' for the odometer is slightly flexible, slides in and out, and is easy to remove (just pull), once the bezel is removed.

The bezel clips onto the instrument cluster at 8 points of attachment as shown in the top photo, 5 of the eight are doubled.
Still, I've never had any problem getting them off by just pulling straight out, as described above. It might be more difficult in winter, when plastic tends to get brittle.

And obviously, the top photo shows the shiny-reflective dark-tinted plastic that reflects the daylight so much, still in place, with the bezel removed.

The dark-tinted plastic is a single panel, and is trickier to remove, because there are also 8 points of attachment, but some are easier to get to than others. I started at the bottom-center and worked my way around clockwise, one at a time. I end up using a very small flat-blade screwdriver gently inserted from the front into the clip retainers on the white plastic of the actual instrument cluster behind the dark-tinted piece.

And yes, you CAN re-attach the outer bezel without replacing the dark-tinted plastic, because the bezel itself clips to the outer 'skin' of the dashboard, not the instrument cluster.

Over time, I suppose all the dust and gunk that gets captured by the dark-tinted plastic would accumulate on the face of the instruments, and the needle indicators are more likely to get damaged, but it's your car...

Now, go amaze your dealer!

{EDITED MULTIPLE TIMES BY KOSTBY}

I was wondering if I replaced the smoked plastic covers with clear plastic, do you think that might create another problem in the opposite direction. your pictures of the speedometer, etc., without the dark cover, especially the red indicator pointer arms that denote speed, fuel, temp appear kind of light and faded. in your opinion, do you think clear plastic cluster covers would be satisfactory?
the reason I ask, is I have thought of a way to cut away most of the dark plastic cover with a dremel tool, leaving only the outer skeleton, and leaving just 4 tabs in each of the cluster circles. I would then cut out clear plastic windows, using the holes in the bezel portion of the housing as a template. after remounting the "dremelized" dark plastic skeleton over the instruments, I would then remount the bezel housing, and then, insert the clear plastic replacement windows in each of the openings in the bezel housing. the tabs which are left in the dark plastic skeleton, would hold the new clear plastic windows from underneath, so there would be no danger of the new clear windows falling down onto the gauges.
I think this would work, but it would be a disappointment if the glass would then be too clear and the red pointers on the gauges would be washed out by too much sunlight.
would you know if anyone has tried this?
thanks.

[runningslow]

I've experienced the same thing with my '06. I at least have the revised version with the white numbers that are clearly visible, but I have a hard time distinguishing the increments between them in the bright sunlight. I might have to track down a second gauge cluster and experiment with swapping out the LEDs.

I think the newer cluster shown, compared to the red 2003 cluster which looks like mine is quite an improvement. I really like the way the odometer window shows up. on a sunny day I can't read mine at all.
I am totally unfamiliar with the innards of the instrumentation, save for the excellent pictures sent by forum members responding to this thread. my question is; how do you get to the led's. does this mean you would have to disassemble the speedometer, etc. to get to them? how big of a job is that?
thanks.

I'm new around here, too, so my advice may not be the best. However, I believe the best option for you would be to find the revised 2004 cluster. If I have my facts straight, the 2003-2004 gauges are interchangeable, and 2005-2008 are interchangeable. Since its digital, I also don't think you have to worry about the odometer, as I believe that information is stored elsewhere (PCM?) and would appear correct on the newer cluster. <-- I could be horribly wrong about that .

There was a link that someone else provided earlier in this thread that describes the process of swapping LEDs. Its looks time consuming and required soldering. That's why I thinking of finding a second cluster and experimenting with brighter LEDs.

[SeattleJeremy]

Since its digital, I also don't think you have to worry about the odometer, as I believe that information is stored elsewhere (PCM?) and would appear correct on the newer cluster. <-- I could be horrible wrong about that .

The odometer is stored in the cluster it self.

[runningslow]

Since its digital, I also don't think you have to worry about the odometer, as I believe that information is stored elsewhere (PCM?) and would appear correct on the newer cluster. <-- I could be horribly wrong about that .

The odometer is stored in the cluster it self.

I thought someone smarter than me would chime in.

[kostby]

I was wondering if I replaced the smoked plastic covers with clear plastic, do you think that might create another problem in the opposite direction. your pictures of the speedometer, etc., without the dark cover, especially the red indicator pointer arms that denote speed, fuel, temp appear kind of light and faded. in your opinion, do you think clear plastic cluster covers would be satisfactory?
the reason I ask, is I have thought of a way to cut away most of the dark plastic cover with a dremel tool, leaving only the outer skeleton, and leaving just 4 tabs in each of the cluster circles. I would then cut out clear plastic windows, using the holes in the bezel portion of the housing as a template. after remounting the "dremelized" dark plastic skeleton over the instruments, I would then remount the bezel housing, and then, insert the clear plastic replacement windows in each of the openings in the bezel housing. the tabs which are left in the dark plastic skeleton, would hold the new clear plastic windows from underneath, so there would be no danger of the new clear windows falling down onto the gauges.
I think this would work, but it would be a disappointment if the glass would then be too clear and the red pointers on the gauges would be washed out by too much sunlight.
would you know if anyone has tried this?
thanks.

As I noted in the caption, the dash lights were not on for the photo with the tinted cover removed, and there was no bezel in place to even partially shade the instruments, so yeah, the pointers and numbers look faded. When the pointers and numbers are backlit with ignition on, they're bright. I took a bunch of other photos that I didn't post, including this one with the dark-tint removed and ignition on in bright sunlight, with the round bezel replaced.

IMG_2515.jpg (101.71 KiB) Viewed 4860 times

As far as a 'clear plastic' solution, I'd approach it from the other direction, and find thin flexible plastic that can be cut and shaped and then super-glued directly to the back of the bezel, rather than 'Dremeling' the original. Wouldn't be as dust-proof as the original...

[vibrator1]

I was wondering if I replaced the smoked plastic covers with clear plastic, do you think that might create another problem in the opposite direction. your pictures of the speedometer, etc., without the dark cover, especially the red indicator pointer arms that denote speed, fuel, temp appear kind of light and faded. in your opinion, do you think clear plastic cluster covers would be satisfactory?
the reason I ask, is I have thought of a way to cut away most of the dark plastic cover with a dremel tool, leaving only the outer skeleton, and leaving just 4 tabs in each of the cluster circles. I would then cut out clear plastic windows, using the holes in the bezel portion of the housing as a template. after remounting the "dremelized" dark plastic skeleton over the instruments, I would then remount the bezel housing, and then, insert the clear plastic replacement windows in each of the openings in the bezel housing. the tabs which are left in the dark plastic skeleton, would hold the new clear plastic windows from underneath, so there would be no danger of the new clear windows falling down onto the gauges.
I think this would work, but it would be a disappointment if the glass would then be too clear and the red pointers on the gauges would be washed out by too much sunlight.
would you know if anyone has tried this?
thanks.

As I noted in the caption, the dash lights were not on for the photo with the tinted cover removed, and there was no bezel in place to even partially shade the instruments, so yeah, the pointers and numbers look faded. When the pointers and numbers are backlit with ignition on, they're bright. I took a bunch of other photos that I didn't post, including this one with the dark-tint removed and ignition on in bright sunlight, with the round bezel replaced.

IMG_2515.jpg

As far as a 'clear plastic' solution, I'd approach it from the other direction, and find thin flexible plastic that can be cut and shaped and then super-glued directly to the back of the bezel, rather than 'Dremeling' the original. Wouldn't be as dust-proof as the original...

thanks for the clarification. that makes sense now that I see what the instruments look like with the lights on without the dark plastic obscuring it; also I like your idea of gluing the clear plastic right on to the bezel.