2009 Clutch Pedal Slow to Come Up Last Few Inches

[DocDoug]

2009 Vibe, 135K, 1.8, Manual Trans, Original Owner

Over the last 10,000 miles / 10 months, the clutch pedal has become sticky and slow to return in the up position, for the last two-three inches. In other words, when I release the clutch pedal, there is slight delay, before it taps the bottom of my foot. I have been driving sticks since 1984 and have never had this in any of my vehicles. Initially, I noticed this in temps below 40 degrees, but now it happens at most all temps. I will confess, I have never flushed the brake / clutch fluid. I have noticed a very slight throw-out bearing chirp (most people don't hear it) when temps are above 80' and the clutch pedal is released.

Before I start trouble shooting, I was hoping to find the potential problem listed in a forum. I can't seem to find anyone with this similar problem.... having said that, we manual shifters are a rarity these days. Some things come to mind: Bad clutch slave cylinder, old nasty brake fluid, bad return spring somewhere (if that exists), or an internal transmission / pressure plate issue.......

Unrelated to my current problem, below are a few items that I have replaced and the maintenance over the last 10 years of ownership. Unless under warranty, I complete all repairs myself.

Water pump replaced, driver's side half-shaft and output seal replaced, steering shaft replaced, one ignition coil replaced, emission charcoal canister replaced, spark plugs replaced, radio knobs replaced, driver's side clock spring replaced, passenger side airbag igniter replaced, oil filter every 5K, synthetic oil change every 10K, synthetic manual transmission fluid every 40K, antifreeze every 40K, engine and HVAC air filter every 25K, 3x wiper blades, 2nd set tires, 2nd set brakes, replaced intake manifold gasket and PCV valve, one rear brake light bulb, replaced drive belt, throttle body cleaned.... I think that is it.

Overall, a fairly decent car that I have babied since mile one.

Thanks in advance for any comments!

[hogdoctor]

Absolutely start with a flush and bleed with fresh fluid. Question - is the slow rise -after- the clutch hooks up, or if you tried to dump it off the floor, would it slowly engage?.. My first guess is that something is binding, either the clutch pedal pivot shaft, clutch release arm pivot, but most likely in my mind, the clutch release throwout bearing is binding on the sleeve that guides it around the transmission input shaft. Maybe you can get past the boot with the clutch pedal wedged to the floor and spray something helpful in there.

[DocDoug]

UPDATE:

After confirming that the sticking was coming from within the vehicle, by watching the movement outside of the vehicle at the slave cylinder, I determined that the return spring, on the clutch pedal, is missing. I believe that I found where a spring would attached to the arm but found no evidence of a spring anywhere. This is very strange. There is very little room in that cavity.

I now recall a squeaking noise, when pushing the clutch in, that stopped about the same time that the pedal became "sticky." It all makes sense now.

Anyone have knowledge of a 2009 Vibe clutch pedal return spring and where it might attach? I have searched all over, on-line, and there is little to any information on this.

Thanks!

[vibrologist]

https://www.gmpartsgiant.com/parts-list ... pedal.html

There are two springs.

[jolt]

And you used the search here on this site? Here: viewtopic.php?f=20&t=46586&p=522254&hil ... al#p522254 You can see the main spring in the picture and there are two springs, another smaller one is in the pedal assembly.

[dragon64]

I had this problem a few months ago. Turned out to be the throw on the slave Cylinder pushrod had slowly changed. I had to loosen the jam nut on the rod at the firewall then pulling the clip out of the pin on the clevse at the clutch pedal. After sliding the pin out I turned the rod until the all the free play between the pedal and slave cylinder is removed. Reconnect the clevis, make sure the clip is re installed and jam nut is tighten. You may have to readjust the rod length after taking the car for a drive. Clutch should engage before the pedal come all the way to the top.

[DocDoug]

And you used the search here on this site? Here: viewtopic.php?f=20&t=46586&p=522254&hil ... al#p522254 You can see the main spring in the picture and there are two springs, another smaller one is in the pedal assembly.

The smaller lower spring is what I suspect is missing. I have no idea how I didn't see this when it fell or broke. The illustration is not very good, with respect to identifying what exactly the spring attaches to. I can see where it would attach to the pedal but that's where it ends. The fuse panel in directly where, I would think, the other end of the spring would attach.

I might have to take a trip to a Toyota dealer and look under the dash of a Corolla.

[DocDoug]

I had this problem a few months ago. Turned out to be the throw on the slave Cylinder pushrod had slowly changed. I had to loosen the jam nut on the rod at the firewall then pulling the clip out of the pin on the clevse at the clutch pedal. After sliding the pin out I turned the rod until the all the free play between the pedal and slave cylinder is removed. Reconnect the clevis, make sure the clip is re installed and jam nut is tighten. You may have to readjust the rod length after taking the car for a drive. Clutch should engage before the pedal come all the way to the top.

Interesting. By chance is your vehicle a 2009 or 2010? If so, were you able to see the smaller spring attached to the clutch pedal?

[DocDoug]

https://www.gmpartsgiant.com/parts-list ... pedal.html

There are two springs.

I have the 1.8 5 speed. When I enter this, it shows only one larger spring but not a smaller spring. The drama of having a manual transmission these days.

[vibrologist]

I was trying to find a picture of the '09 ish clutch pedal assy. No luck. A Mazda pedal showed up. However you may search for pictures of similar vintage Toyota Matrix, Corolla and Scions. I bet they used the same design in various cars. You could also go to a Toyota or GM parts counter and look at their computer diagrams/pictures.

[jolt]

I doubt that the clutch pedal spring is going to fix the problem but then again I am not there to check how it is operating. The reason for me saying that is the strongest return spring in the clutch assembly is the pressure plate itself. The pedal return spring is there just to keep the pedal from bouncing against the pedal stop and to remove the weight of the pedal from riding against the clutch master cylinder (free play in the clutch adjustment). The pedal spring does not pull anything back but the pedal. The pressure plate will push the rest of the clutch system back and should have enough pressure to make the pedal follow your foot as you release the clutch. If the pressure plate is good, you have the hydraulics flushed and find no leakage or corrosion in the cylinder bores after pulling the rubber bellows back, then it could be the master or slave cylinder for the clutch may have internal leakage. If you have air in the system, the clutch will be soft and mushy. It may cause the pedal to be slow but that is normally found in both directions of the pedal. You have not said which of three model 5 speed transmission you have and that will effect if the pedal assembly has the second spring or not, which is called the turnover spring at the very top of the pedal. It may just be time for a new clutch and pressure plate after 10 years and 135K.

[tpollauf]

I'll take a pic of my pedals tomorrow. 2.4L engine with 5-speed manual. Pedals should be identical regardless of what engine we have.

[DocDoug]

Well its been five years and I am still waiting on the photos of where the clutch return springs attach under the dash.

In all honesty, the vehicle now has 165,000 on the original clutch BUT I still need to install the clutch return spring and don't know exactly where it attaches on each end. The spring broke 5 years ago and was found on the floor. The Toyota and other websites that sell parts only show the drawings... which are useless.

The last inch or so of the clutch pedal return still sticks and feels like it could better return with a spring... just as it had 5 years ago. When I bled my brake and clutch fluid the other day, I thought that I would revisit the spring issue again.

Can someone please post photo(s) of where the clutch return spring attaches on both ends under the dash?

Thank you! Doc Doug

[tpollauf]

Here's a few pics on my 2.4L clutch pedal. Not sure if this applies to the 1.8L engines. I have a snake camera which I may use to get even closer pics if needed.

[DocDoug]

GREAT photos. Thank you! I am picking up the new spring today from my local Toyota dealer.

When the dealer specified a 1.8L, which is my Vibe, she said no spring is listed. When she removed the 1.8L from the search, leaving just a 2009 Toyota Matrix, the spring appeared.

Having said that, now I am second guessing if my 2009 1.8 ever had a spring to begin with? The spring seems that it would take up the slack and pull the clutch pedal towards the floor.

Does anyone have a 2009 or 2010 Vibe with a 1.8 manual transmission that can confirm if this spring is present or not?

Thanks again for the great photos!

Doc Doug

[DocDoug]

With every parts listing catalog that I have reviewed, I have yet to find a single listing for the clutch return spring for a 2009 - 2010, 1.8 manual transmission. As a result, I have decided to hold off installing the spring, for fear of too much pressure on the clutch pedal causing a problem.

I had hoped that tpollauf's Vibe would have the 1.8L and spring. (He has the 2.4L.)

I continue to look for someone with a 1.8 with a factory installed clutch return spring.

- Doc Doug

[Capt.Vibe]

Why not just check used car listings close to you and find a used Corolla/Vibe/Matrix at a used car lot and ask to have a look?

[DocDoug]

Good idea…. I tried that and couldn’t find any for sale on used car lots. Being 15 years old with the smaller engine and the rare manual transmission, it’s a needle in a hay stack.

I did post on the Toyota Corolla forum and one person with a 2010, 1.8 manual Corolla indicated that his does NOT have a spring.

I guess at this point I have my answer. Both the 1.8 and 2.4 used the same clutch pedal but it was only the 2.4 that used the return spring…

[vibedrivermatt]

Did you ever get you clutch pedal fixed? I see the OP has just bumped the post so I'll add my two cents here.

I believe it's time for a clutch replacement. From what I've read r/ask mechanics reddit many were saying this could be an issue with clutch slave/master cylinder. Another commenter suggested the pressure plate to be a culprit.. at 135k miles it's in need of a new clutch anyway.

We recently did the clutch on my 2009 2.4l. We did a diy repair but also had a former professional auto mechanic hanging out with us to provide guidances. . I can tell ya, replacing the clutch was a total PITA.. but we got it in there.

Have you really been driving on a bum clutch since 2019? Yikes..

Goodluck man!

[DocDoug]

I was able to determine that my 1.8 only has one spring. (The 2.4 has two.)

My vehicle has 164,000 on the original clutch. It’s only when temps are below 50’ that the last inch or so feels gummy and slow to fully return. I flushed the brake fluid in both the brake lines and clutch lines and this made a little difference.

If you are not getting 200k out of a clutch disk, then you are doing a lot of city driving or racing offline. My 1.8 is no racer and I do a lot of highway driving with little shifting.

I should replace the slave cylinder as a lot nasty fluid was sitting low in the cylinder when I flushed for the first time in 164k and 15 years. With so many projects, this is low on the priority list.

Thanks for commenting!

[DocDoug]

I wanted to report that I FINALLY, after MANY years, solved the slow return / "gummy" or "sticky" feel of my clutch pedal. The pedal had a .5 second delay for a full return. At 172k, my clutch pedal engagement point had become VERY low as well as the pedal continued to delay when fully returning. As well, last week, the pedal had fallen to the floor when parked overnight and on occasion I had to lift the clutch pedal up after depressing to shift gears. The car could no longer be reliably driven.

I reached out to a few transmission professionals and they said at 172k, my clutch was toast. They refused to understand that I am the original owner and babied the clutch, with little slipping when engaging and drove mostly highway miles. I decided to order up a new OEM Toyota clutch master cylinder, slave cylinder and the rubber hose that carries the fluid between the two cylinders and do the job myself. After 8 hours from start to clean-up, my Vibe's clutch feels like brand new! The clutch pedal fully returns without delay and feels crisp again! Clutch engagement height is perfect, like new! Sometimes mechanics need to listen rather than assume things. Clearly, this was one of those times.

This repair is tough and requires working in very small areas, blindly, especially under the dash with the clutch pedal clip and the two master cylinder nuts. As well, threading the line off and onto the new clutch master cylinder is not for those without patience. It required a LOT of patience. In fact, I walked away several times for a break, rather than strip the threads out of anger! Being 92' with 90% humidity in my garage didn't help matters. As well, we had extreme thunderstorms while I working.... adding to the anxiety! It was TIGHT and would almost appear to be impossible to accomplish. Unless you have done this job on this vehicle, you truly don't understand the awkwardness, blind angle and tightness using one finger to to get this job done. Laying on your back under the dash with your face planted against the side foot-well (clutch pedal is far left) while performing the adjustments and reassembly is a bonus too. This is a job that I hope never to do again! Clearly, my clutch master cylinder had been failing for 8 years. In fact, I suspect that it was bad from the beginning. I complained several times, when the vehicle was new, that the clutch engagement was often jerky and inconsistent... but I was told it was fine. I have been driving sticks since 1984. I knew something was off.

OEM Toyota parts were $220 with free shipping! This was a GREAT deal. Using Toyota's parts website, I searched many states for the parts and found the best deal! I can't image what this job would cost to have done with parts? $1,500 - $2,000?

At any rate, my 172k clutch is now reliably moving and feeling like it's 2009!

[tpollauf]

Great write-up Doc and thanks for sharing. So your original clutch is still in the vehicle? you only changed out the supporting components outside of the clutch itself. Back in my younger days when I owned & restored several GM F-body cars, I made sure they all were manual transmission ones. Extremely simple to change & work on. Literally a clutch pedal, adjustable rod, and the clutch fork ...... that's it! Sure it took a bit of force to drive the car, but it was fun & simple. On todays cars there are too many additional components/processes that must take place to get to the final result. Each one of those processes requires an additional component. As you eventually found out, ONE of those components was the culprit to your problem and you eventually solved it. Great job

[DocDoug]

Thank you! Correct, the original 16 year old (172k mile) clutch is still in the car and now functions flawlessly.