2005 Pontiac Vibe No Start Troubleshooting

[modemagic]

I'm currently troubleshooting my fathers 2005 no start condition and here's the story up to date:

A week ago my dad calls and says that the car died and to grab the trailer and come get him. After a two hour drive I pick him and the car up. He says that as he was pulling out of the driveway from the oil change place onto the highway the car simply died. The car had a CE light on long before that and had for some time. The car now cranks over with plenty of power but simply doesn't start. Occasionally it will sound like it wants to start but simply doesn't.

Once the car was in the confines of my garage I pulled the check engine code and got a P0016 CKP/CMP Sensor Correlation code. I reset the code and made note of it. With 176k on the odometer I started very basic. Checked to make sure the cams were spinning which they are. Pulled the spark plugs and they were wet from trying to start it so much. Tested compression on the motor on all four cylinders and got 130-140 PSI across all four cylinders. Tested for spark and it appears as though I only have spark on cylinders 2 and 3. I swapped the coil packs from 1 to 2, 2 to 1 and from 3 to 4, 4 to 3, and still only have spark on the number 2 and 3 plugs. Using my meter I don't appear to have a signal to coils 1 and 4. I obtained a PCM pinout from AllData and checked for output to the coil packs right at the computer to which I had the same results. Only signal on the wires for cylinders 2 and 3. Keeping the CE code in mind I swapped the Crank Position Sensor thinking that was the culprit but after the swap got the same results. I also removed the Cam position sensor and inspected it. I did NOT however change it since the local auto parts stores didn't have one on hand.

I thought I had the issue narrowed down to the PCM so I purchased a used one from a wrecked car via eBay and after swapping PCM's the car still does not stop. At this point I'm at a loss with this one. Is this problem more targeted at the CMP now? My father and little brother told me that the CE light has been off and on for quite some time but after a trip to Autozone and fooling with the CMP sensor plug the light would turn off however during that whole process the car always started and ran.

Any help would be appreciated!
-Dave

[Chiadog]

Yea, I'd change the Cam position sensor (CMP). Then, if no luck, I'd get a wiring diagram and I'd disconnect, check and reconnect each and every electrical connector, ground, and fuse in the system. I've had that work in other vehicles. If that doesn't work it may be time to see a specialist who has a $3000.00 scan tool and knows how to use it. Good luck.

[lannvouivre]

This might not be related, but did he have the PCM recall performed? I believe that a crack can form in some of the solder joints, which will cause some...interesting problems. They should be able to do it for free.

[modemagic]

Update on this...

I went through the vehicle and checked every fuse and connector in the vehicle and verified they were good and unplugging and replugging them in just to be sure. I cleaned up every ground that I could find and came up with the same results.

The replacement PCM came in and after a swap I have the same results. No start and only spark on coils 2 and 3, regardless of the coil that plugged into those plugs. Thinking I needed to dig deeper I tore the valve cover off and found the following. (See picture) It looks as though the cams are off to me, like potentially the right cam may have jumped a link. Is that correct or are they supposed to be misaligned like that due to the variable valve timing?

Thanks again all,
-Dave

P.S. - Yes, the PCM recall was done on this car quite some time back.

[Chiadog]

This is above my pay grade and my craphaynes manual is useless here beyond 1-3-4-2 firing order. I don't know if this Dodge ignition explanation is of any value, but maybe it will give you some ideas: http://www.dodgeintrepid.net/showthread.php?t=193775

[modemagic]

I also neglected to post that I did also swap the Cam Sensor as well.

[lannvouivre]

The picture isn't showing

[modemagic]

Picture attempt number 2.

20131024_185702.jpg (111.09 KiB) Viewed 4931 times

[lannvouivre]

My Haynes manual is saying those two dimple marks on the sprockets should be lined up at TDC.

Here's a pic from ProDemand showing the marks should be aligned:

GM625505.gif (6.8 KiB) Viewed 4925 times

As you may have guessed...this is really bad news for the engine, most likely.

[JohnO]

I'll bet the engine is OK. You just need to reset the cam timing and make sure the chain tensioner is working right. Probably the chain tension got loose and the cam sprocket jumped a tooth. The jumped tooth means the ECU can't get the cam timing to the right place and that sets the P0016. See this:

http://engine-codes.com/p0016_toyota.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The timing is off by enough to prevent the engine from starting, but hopefully not enough that the pistons have run into the valves.

[kumquat]

Actually my image from AllData, which is basically a copy of the GM manual, indicates that his alignment may be correct.

[JohnO]

My Toyota manual looks more like the first diagram with the dots aligning. Also, there are marks on each sprocket at the top. The one on the left sprocket is visible in the OP's picture. Starting with the link at one mark as "1", the other sprocket's mark should be at link 8.

[kumquat]

Interestingly the diagram for the 2006 Vibe agrees with the 2005 Corolla diagram. See image.