I hate cars..

[clw3388]

Right place to post? IDK.. Needed a place to rant and possibly get some assistance..

Let's start with the positive.. I purchased my 05 vibe base last year.. It's been a great vehicle. I installed a kick A## sound system, tinted my windows, and cleaned the crap out of it. I am tickled pink with my little car that averages 30 miles a gallon!!! Only problem i've had with it so far was a door check and broken fog lights.. Fixed em both and at a decent price..

Now the negative.. My other vehicle is a 2000 ponitac montana.. this little turd burner is misbehaving. It eats fuel pumps for lunch, and as such always displays a p0131 diag code.. This particular diag code has been present for a few years and is likely caused by my unwillingness to climb back underneath and ensure my evap lines are tight to the char can.. In any case.. one day a few weeks ago I decided it was a good idea to try and fix it. I tightened the lines and replaced both oxygen sensors.. In trying to get to the top sensor, i was tasked with rocking the motor forward to get to it. After that failed to provide adequate space, i replaced the sensor from underneath and remounted my motor to where it belonged.. After I did this the motor threw alot of different codes.. misfire codes, mas airflow codes, lean codes.. blah blah blah.. I went through all the wiring, connectors,, vacuum hoses etc etc.. I resolved MOST of my problems but a persistent issue is still present..

My persistent issue is that of a rough idle in park or neutral. It's so bad the motor will stall.. This happens only when brought up to temp, and only intermittently.. the codes i get are my forever p0131 and a NEW one P0171.. I could care less about the P0131 as it has "always" been present but the "too lean" code is kicking my trash.. I believe this code to be a symptom of my rough idle and stall...

Knowing cars fairly well, and being cheap.. I figure i could resolve this issue without having to take it to a mechanic/dealer.. Now I'm not so sure.. I have replaced practically every vacuum hose known to man.NO GO ... I thought it to be a mass air flow sensor as when unplugged, the idle evens out and does not stall. I replaced the mass air flow sensor.. NO GO my new friend P0171 comes up still. My motor continues to stall in at idle in park/neutral.. Most forums are telling me it's a vacuum leak.. I used a can of carb cleaner and drenched all my hoses while the motor was running.. This included spraying around the plenum/intake manifold. This "test" yielded no results.. the motor in its intermittently working state did not respond to my assault..

so.. not vacuum leak (or intermittent vacuum leak?).. not mass airflow sensor... has to be fuel related right? clogged ports.. slow painful death of the fuel pump? I dumped a bunch of injector cleaner in my tank, and have almost wen through the tank now.. issue still remains but once I find a 90 degree adapter i can test this theory.. but the adapter appears to be quite the elusive creature..

Now for the question part... Does anyone know if an ac quick connect will fit and function on a fuel rail? I know the rail is a screw on type of fitting but one can't be certain unless tested right? Anyone else own a montana or other pontiac/gm product with a 3.4L motor with similar issues they have resolved with some magic and wisdom?

I am so glad the vibe does NOT have a gm motor in it.. I would not have purchased it if it had.. gm isn't all that bad (no really it is..) I just don't like working on vans.. Can't get to the back of the motor very easily if at all..

on a second thought.. could the oxygen sensor be causing the P0171? any way to really test this without a fancy reader? Did i mention i hate cars.. except my vibe of course

[Chiadog]

doan b hatin' mon! I think I've read that one of the GM V6's is prone to intake gasket failures. Might you have tweaked the intake manifold while "rocking" the engine out of position? Possibly cracked the manifold if you actually used the manifold to leverage the engine? Just guessing.

[Nasmfell]

^ +1 Those 6s did have issues with the intake gaskets. Your engine is a bored out version of GM/Chevrolet 3.1, which did have the issue starting in 94. GM changed the gasket from metal to plastic, if I'm not mistaken, hence the problems.

[kostby]

What else to check, if it's not the intake manifold or gasket

I had a 5-speed manual Ford Escort GT that kept throwing lean CEL codes after about 3 years. The engine seemed fine on the highway (and 95% of my driving was interstate), but from start-up in cold weather it eventually became undriveable.

Dealer's service department confirmed that it was not a vacuum leak, fuel injectors, or ignition, but the problem never went away and got worse that winter. The dealer got tired of seeing me, because I had purchased an extended warranty up to 5-years and 100,000 miles, and he knew I'd keep coming back every week until the car was fixed.

They finally found the problem:
Turns out it was a crack along the molded seam in the underside of the flexible intake tube after the airflow sensor, but before the intake manifold and fuel injectors. The crack wasn't visible from the top, and you couldn't feel it when the engine was off.

Applying throttle from idle, the crack would open and admit additional air that was not getting metered, so the 'brain', seeing lean exhaust readings, tried to richen the fuel mixture. The engine would try to accelerate like crazy with the extra fuel, so of course, I'd release the accelerator. With the throttle closed, the crack would close... Now the exhaust was rich, so the 'brain' tried to lean the mixture... endless cycle.

[clw3388]

this site ate my post.. GRRRRRRR

thanks for the insight guys.. I did find a very small coolant leak the other day.. think it's coming from my lower intake manifold.. to replace the gasket is a 5 hr job for a real mechanic.. so it'll take me 10 hrs or 2 weeks.. I'll likely get cracking on this come Saturday.. Wish I was financially capable of trading it in or taking it to the stealership..

[kostby]

Good luck. You might find the job is not nearly as time-consuming as you think.

Repair facilities can boost profits by charging you according to the number of hours a job is supposed to take, according to the 'flat rate manual', not actual clock time. Good mechanics are able to do the job properly, but in far less time. That's how you can take your car in at 8am, they actually start the '8 hour' job at 9, and take an hour lunch break, yet still have the car ready to pick up by 4:00 pm.

Then there are the so-called 'wall jobs'. These describe dealership service departments and brand new vehicles under warranty, and a new owner with a long list of complaints after the first few days. You take the car in. They park it over by the wall all day. They actually do nothing. You come back to pick it up that evening, assured that everything is taken care of.

[clw3388]

Good luck. You might find the job is not nearly as time-consuming as you think. [/i]

These forums keep eating my posts.. ?!?!?! .. I'm 30 Hours into it, spent 4 or so of these de-greasing and cleaning mating surfaces.. All in all not too bad, but definatley time consuming.. Would hate to have to do this too frequently LOL

[clw3388]

Just an update for those that are interested.. I wrapped up the head gasket and lower intake manifold work.. The van still was throwing P0171(lean) codes, but was no longer leaking coolant nor oil. I replaced the Fuel injectors and ensured no vacuum leaks were present, and no more P0171 codes thus far!!! The silly thing still did not want to idle though.. I put some seafoam through the vacuum lines as directed on the instructions, and now the van idles.. Sticky exhaust valve? They didn't look terrible when i was cleaning the heads, but I guess I should have taken the valves out and spent more time cleaning em up.. Nonetheless the van appears to be idling fine now and no leaks!!

Hope the stupid thing is fixed for good now.. Time will tell LoL..