Automatic Transmission fluid drain and refill

[redbeagle]

I would like to drain and refill the Transmission Fluid during my next oil and filter change. I know this is not dropping the pan, changing the filter, and draining all the transmission fluid. However I faithfully performed the drain and refill on my Honda Accord, approximately 2 quarts of fluid, approximately every 9,000 miles (every three oil changes) and the fluid always remained clean and red. The Honda had a magnetic drain plug that caught the extremely small metal pieces. I would like to do this fluid change on a regular basis with my Vibe as well. Does anyone know the exact location of the drain plug (it looks to me like there are two plugs in that location), the quantity of fluid to put back in, and the type of fluid to utilize ? This procedure worked well for me with the Honda, I had almost 180,000 miles on it when I traded it for the Vibe. Thank you for your assistance. Redbeagle

[ColonelPanic]

Greetings, welcome to the club!It's been a while since I've crawled under the Vibe, but I think I remember seeing only one plug in the tranny pan. The oil pan is on the passenger's side, the transmission pan is on the driver's side. IIRC, the plug on mine is right in the center of the pan, facing downward. If you have two plugs, I dunno... Finding a transmission plug under there was surprising, I haven't seen a plug in a transmission pan in ages! GM doesn't include that on their designs. The owner's manual calls for GM T-IV fluid, GM part number 88900925. Pretty sure that isn't a GM fluid. I believe that's Toyota's fluid instead, so you could obtain it at a Toyota shop if need be. You may want to double-check that part number and the fluid capacity in your owner's manual. I've attached a screenshot of the owner's manual PDF for the '04 model that has the transmission capacaties.Have fun with the Vibe!

Attached files

[redbeagle]

ColonelPanic, Thank you for your quick reply. I have not been under the Vibe to look for the drain plug again, but I will be this weekend. The ground has been too hot (Temp 85 to 90°F Air) here in Massachusetts to crawl under at lunch time. I prefer going to the local Toyota Dealer, they seem much more knowledgeable and their prices are better. I feel the Pontiac Dealer is too expensive for even small items like transmission fluid. I will visit the Toyota Dealer before I attack this job. Thanks for the detailed information.Regards, Redbeagle

[ToolGuy]

Easy to do on the Vibe and more maintenance is better then not enough but I personally think every 9,000 is too soon and a waste of money. I change all my cars every 25,000 and I too have had no issues. I have always over maintained my vehicles if you could do so. 9,000 for your Vibe is great if you want to do that.

[redbeagle]

Toolguy, I have been on vacation for the past week. I changed the oil and filter on my Vibe the weekend before last. I also changed the transmission fluid at that time as well. Mileage: 23,150I went to the local Toyota Dealer before attempting to drain and fill the transmission fluid. I spoke with a very helpful Service Adviser who came outside to the Vibe, looked at and pulled the transmission dipstick, and told me to use the Toyota T-IV tranmission fluid. He told me the Matrix/Vibe utilizes a synthetic tranmission fluid. I purchased 4 quarts of fluid while I was at the dealer.The transmission pan and drain plug is located below the dipstick on the drivers side of the vehicle. A 14mm socket will remove the drain plug quite easily on the Vibe; the adviser indicated that an allen wrench was needed for removing the plug on the Matrix. I refilled it with 3.3 quarts of fluid and it brought the liquid level to the upperfull mark when hot. This is a very easy job to complete. The fluid was dirty and I believe that 20,000 to 25,000 miles is a good time to change it. When I replaced the 3.3 quarts of fluid, is this all the fluid in the Vibe/Matrix transmission or is there more fluid in there that cannot be drained at the time ?Thanks to all for there assistance and input on completing this routine maintenance job. Regards, Redbeagle

[joatmon]

There is likely some fluid still in the torque converter that will not drain. I don't have an auto tranny vibe, are there a couple of lines running from the tranny to the radiator for a tranny cooler? if so, not sure how well these would empty with just a drain. Also not sure how you would go about flushing the cooler and torque converter.How often will you need to drop the pan and replace the filter?

[ToolGuy]

Quote, originally posted by redbeagle »Toolguy, I have been on vacation for the past week. I changed the oil and filter on my Vibe the weekend before last. I also changed the transmission fluid at that time as well. Mileage: 23,150I went to the local Toyota Dealer before attempting to drain and fill the transmission fluid. I spoke with a very helpful Service Adviser who came outside to the Vibe, looked at and pulled the transmission dipstick, and told me to use the Toyota T-IV tranmission fluid. He told me the Matrix/Vibe utilizes a synthetic tranmission fluid. I purchased 4 quarts of fluid while I was at the dealer.The transmission pan and drain plug is located below the dipstick on the drivers side of the vehicle. A 14mm socket will remove the drain plug quite easily on the Vibe; the adviser indicated that an allen wrench was needed for removing the plug on the Matrix. I refilled it with 3.3 quarts of fluid and it brought the liquid level to the upperfull mark when hot. This is a very easy job to complete. The fluid was dirty and I believe that 20,000 to 25,000 miles is a good time to change it. When I replaced the 3.3 quarts of fluid, is this all the fluid in the Vibe/Matrix transmission or is there more fluid in there that cannot be drained at the time ?Thanks to all for there assistance and input on completing this routine maintenance job. Regards, Redbeagle Do you change out the filter too? If not, the filter has more fluid in it as well, get a new filter next time if you did not. Like Joatman said the converter has some too, however by draining through the pan, you got most of it. RWD cars have a heck of alot of fluid in the converts, FWDs do not. You did the right thing and if you keep up on it every 25K the fluid will basically stay newer/clean because the fresh fluid will mix with any old. What you did is what I do on all my auto trans cars... To flush the entire system you need to tear it down or goto a store that has a trans flushing machine. GM dealers have one, we just sold one to GM for their dealers. It works great and you can see a difference in the fluid while doing it. The machine was really needed for when a trans destroys itself and leaves metal in the system. GM noticed that vehicles with a bad trans got a new one and then destroyed that one too. All because of metal from the old trans still in the system and cooler. This machine keeps their warranty on trans down. It cannot flush a filter though, that would need to be manually replaced. You may also encounter people that state they never change their trans fluid because once you do, it fails. All a bunch of BS and here is why... If the trans is in good mechanical condition to start with, you will not destroy it. I know this as truth and a good friend who is a master Corvette tech said the same thing.

[ColonelPanic]

Good to hear you got that taken care of... How much was the fluid?I need to change mine, I currently have 32,000 miles. I'm thinking with that mileage, I would be better off dropping the pan and changing the filter as well... Not sure. Definitely going to change it way before the 60,000 miles which the owner's manual suggests.

[redbeagle]

ColonelPanic, I paid $3.95 per quart for the transmission fluid. Get a new gasket for the drain plug while you are at it. The local Toyota dealer had a coupon in the newspaper for 10 percent off parts this past weekend.Regards, Redbeagle

[bandit454]

Wouldn't happen to have part number for the filter would you? The dealer I went to actually tried to convince me it had no filter, just a screen you had to clean. I know better than that being I have yet to work on any trans without a filter. I also have the old one in my hand. But you know those parts people, a lot of them think they are master mechanics because they sell parts. I would go elswhere, but I really wuld like to show him so he will not tell someone else that may not know trans. that well, and they might clean the filter and think it is the screen.

[redbeagle]

Bandit 454,Did you ever get the Toyota Part number for the automatic transmission filter ? What did you pay for it ? Did you purchase a new gasket for the pan and install it ? What is the part number and what did you pay for the gasket ?Thank you for your assistance.Redbeagle

[bandit454]

Redbeagle, they were right, the transmission filter is actually a screen that you clean, not a replacable type, I even called Toyota Tech Support and they verified it. Now Pontiac will sell you a "filter" ie a screen for $60.00. Forget that, I cleaned per Toyota procedure and replaced gasket which cost me $9.00 with my delaer discount. Normally $12.50. Toyota Part number for that is 35168-12060. Bad Toyota is cheaper than Pontiac.

[redbeagle]

Bandit 454,It is amazing how much information is available from the people who frequent this site and own a Vibe or Matrix. How do you remove the screen / filter ? What is the recommended Toyota cleaning procedure for the screen ? Is the gasket easily replaced ? Does Toyota have a recommended torque for the hex bolts ? Thank you for your assistance.Regards, Redbeagle

[bandit454]

Redbeagle, I am sending you a private email with a document on the procedure with torque specs. Toyota recommended using kerosene after taking filter off, I soaked it for about 5 minutes, then blew it out with air, made sure it was completly dry. Make sure you blow the air opposite direction that fluid flows to make sure you don't get dirt into screen.

[futseal04]

My 91 escort made it 160k before the first tranny fluid change. I only changed it because the tranny was slipping between 1st and 2nd gear, and wanted a flush and filter change as well.

[MadBill]

For what it's worth, I was just reading about DaimlerChrysler's new 7G-tronic 7 speed automatic. Quote: "Due to the transmission's fill-for-life feature...without an oil fill tube..." Hmmm, and this is a unit rated for up to 516 lb-ft.!

[ToolGuy]

Quote, originally posted by bandit454 »Redbeagle, I am sending you a private email with a document on the procedure with torque specs. Toyota recommended using kerosene after taking filter off, I soaked it for about 5 minutes, then blew it out with air, made sure it was completly dry. Make sure you blow the air opposite direction that fluid flows to make sure you don't get dirt into screen. Why don't you share all this info with the others and post it??? We all could benefit from it. I have not changed my fluid but have done so on many other vehicles and this is the first I have ever heard of a trans screen, no changing and to clean it out. The Vibe Serv. Man states Auto Tran Fluid/Filter Replacement. And calls the filter, a Fluid Filter Screen with no mention of cleaning out the filter. Kerosene is not commonly found at dlrs too.I am not bashing you in any way just looking to be educated since the info I have in front of me does not clearly state to clean and replace the filter. Things always change in the auto world, therefore I would like to see the procedure so I am knowledgeable on it too. Thanks,

[bandit454]

The only reason I didn't post it because I don't have a PDF convertor. I have the factory software that GM techs use and links to GM server and it won't download the file correctly. Here is the procedure without the pics, I can do it that way.Raise and suitably support the vehicle. Refer to Lifting and Jacking the Vehicle in General Information. Remove the left splash shield (1) from the vehicle. Refer to Splash Shield Replacement - Engine - Left in Body Front End. Place a drain pan or a suitable container under the transaxle fluid pan. Remove the transaxle drain plug from the transaxle fluid pan and drain the transaxle fluid. Remove 18 bolts, the transaxle fluid pan, and the fluid pan gasket from the transaxle. Remove 3 bolts, the fluid filter screen, and the gasket from the valve body. ImportantA small amount of clutch material in the bottom of the transaxle fluid pan is a normal condition and is consistent with normal transaxle wear. The bottom of the fluid pan is equipped with 2 magnets that will collect minute metal filings. However, if large amounts of clutch material, metal shavings or other foreign matter are present, disassembly and inspection of the transaxle is indicated.Inspect the bottom of the fluid pan for any large pieces of metal or other foreign matter. Clean the transaxle fluid pan magnets (2) and the bottom of the transaxle fluid pan (1). Clean the gasket material from the fluid pan-to-case mating surfaces. Installation Procedure NoticeUse the correct fastener in the correct location. Replacement fasteners must be the correct part number for that application. Fasteners requiring replacement or fasteners requiring the use of thread locking compound or sealant are identified in the service procedure. Do not use paints, lubricants, or corrosion inhibitors on fasteners or fastener joint surfaces unless specified. These coatings affect fastener torque and joint clamping force and may damage the fastener. Use the correct tightening sequence and specifications when installing fasteners in order to avoid damage to parts and systems.Install the fluid filter screen (2) to the valve body assembly. Secure the screen with 3 bolts. TightenTighten all the fluid filter screen bolts to 10 N·m (89 lb in). Install the magnets in the fluid pan Install the new transaxle fluid pan gasket and transaxle fluid pan to the transaxle. Secure with 18 bolts. TightenTighten the transaxle fluid pan bolts to 5.3 N·m (48 lb in). Install the transaxle pan drain plug into the transaxle fluid pan. TightenTighten the transaxle drain plug to 17 N·m (13 lb ft).Remove the drain pan from under the transaxle. Install the left splash shield. Refer to Splash Shield Replacement - Engine - Left in Body Front End. Lower the vehicle. Refill the transaxle, as necessary. Refer to Fluid Capacity Specifications . -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Document ID# 858140 2003 Pontiac Vibe - FWD

[bandit454]

Toolguy, I just read the rest of your reply. Kerosene is not normally found at dealers, they have a special fluid cleaner with kerosene in it. I am not going to pay $75.00 for a gallon of it, the base property of their cleaner is Kerosene, so they told me it would be fine. It is also what I have used to rebuild a few transmissions myself to clean them before putting back together. As I said above, Pontiac will sell you a filter/screen, they like the $65.00 for it. Every part I have bought for my Vibe I bought from Toyota because they were anywhere from 25% to 50% cheaper than Pontiac, Pontiac has to make their money after they buy it from Toyota.They make money selling parts. I was told by Toyota, every dealer I called said to clean it. Being it is a Toyota transmission and not Pontiac, I believe them because they will not sell you a filter. Some Honda transmissions are the same way. If you notice the filter screen is metal, not paper like regular filters. Being a metal screen you just clean it, you couldn't do a paper type filter like that. I was very doubtful myself until I looked at the filter screen. Hope this helps, you can still get it thru Pontiac and pay the $65.00 or as for me I like everybody to save money and being Toyota makes the trans, I feel they would be more knowlegable.

[ToolGuy]

OK, I will be changing out the fluid in another 10K miles. It just seemed strange to me since all the jobs I have done in the past have say a 25 micron filter and you never use it again. I will probably use brake cleaner to clean the filter/screen since it leaves no residue and dries quickly. Thanks for the heads up...

[bandit454]

MiVibe-I was the same way, I do mechanic work and rebuilding cars for the last 15 years, this was a first for me. I like the idea though. Good luck.