I hate that blindspot between the quarterpanel window and the back window...

MJN2 · Post by **MJN2** » Wed Jun 16, 2004 6:56 am

especially when you have an SUV parked next to you and the blindspot is hiding a light pole

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MJN2 · Post by **MJN2** » Wed Jun 16, 2004 6:58 am

Pic #2

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MJN2 · Post by **MJN2** » Wed Jun 16, 2004 7:00 am

Last one, as I need a beer or ten

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MJN2 · Post by **MJN2** » Wed Jun 16, 2004 7:03 am

On the lighter side, that yellow from the base of the light pole looks pretty good on the Neptune

Kazig · Post by **Kazig** » Wed Jun 16, 2004 7:07 am

Quote, originally posted by MJN2 Â»On the lighter side, that yellow from the base of the light pole looks pretty good on the Neptune The U of Mich thinks that too..

ragingfish · Post by **ragingfish** » Wed Jun 16, 2004 7:08 am

My suggestion would be to replace the sheet metal only. Doesn't look like the damage is all that significant to the cladding.That being said, the sheet metal lists at just under $600. Not too bad. Could've been worse.But if you did decide to replace the other afflicted parts, the bumper would run about $417, the fender flare about $260, and the tail light $115.

ebslopp · Post by **ebslopp** » Wed Jun 16, 2004 7:11 am

taillight is busted too! Good luck on the repair. How big is your deductabe?

futseal04 · Post by **futseal04** » Wed Jun 16, 2004 7:11 am

Ouch.....

ragingfish · Post by **ragingfish** » Wed Jun 16, 2004 7:12 am

Quote, originally posted by ebslopp Â»taillight is busted too! Good luck on the repair. How big is your deductabe?Ahhh yeah, didn't even notice that. Move that $115 over to the "need to replace" side.

MJN2 · Post by **MJN2** » Wed Jun 16, 2004 7:17 am

$250 deductible.One issue that might arise is that the factory paint job has some texture to it under the clearcoat, and when my bodyshop repainted the hood after the car got hit last year, the paint was smooth as glass (as it should've been from the factory). This could be interesting.

Devlop · Post by **Devlop** » Wed Jun 16, 2004 8:53 am

The clearcoat is what has the orange peel (texture), not the color underneath. The bodyshop that worked on your hood rubbed it too much with rubbing compound and that is why it looks smooth. I can tell you right now that your quarter panel will be fixed, not replaced. If you go thru your insurance, you'll only pay the $250 and you'll get a new rear bumper, wheel opeing molding, and of course the fixed quarter panel. If you were to just pay to get your quarter panel fixed, you'll pay more than to go thru your insurance.Sucks that this happened, sorry dude.

redlava · Post by **redlava** » Wed Jun 16, 2004 9:43 am

That blind spot is a pain in the (removed). When I first saw the car I knew that would be a problem. Now everytime I go to get in my car I make a mental note of what is behind me to make sure this sort of thing doesn't happen to me. Good luck with the repairs!

Stang2Vibe · Post by **Stang2Vibe** » Wed Jun 16, 2004 10:30 am

Ouch! Sorry to see your misfortune with the Vibe. I hope that repairs go smoothly for you.Other than that, all I can say is mirrors, people, mirrors. They are there for a good reason so please use them so this does not happen to you. Adjust all 3 (the 2 sides and the rearview mirror attached to the windshield) so that you can see the full field of view to the rear of the car without turning your head around and craning your neck out like an idiot trying to look over the rear headrests, out the tailgate, and around the sides (which will be impossible to do as was proven here). Anyone who has driven a truck with a cap on the bed or some kind of utility body will know exactly what I mean. Call me lazy, but I could back up the car through a maze of cones using only my mirrors. Actually you only need the 2 side mirrors, but the 3rd center one is helpful to make sure that nobody is walking behind you like a moron while you are backing up. If you don't believe me that I can do this, I will gladly demonstrate this at the Michigan meet if someone will provide some cones or other similar obsticle. I'm not saying all this to be a jerk or anything, I just wish that people would learn how to do something so simple. It would prevent traffic jams in parking lots, help people to maneuver through tight quarters, and avoid costly damage like we unfortunately saw in this thread.

MJN2 · Post by **MJN2** » Wed Jun 16, 2004 11:30 am

Quote, originally posted by Stang2Vibe Â»Adjust all 3 (the 2 sides and the rearview mirror attached to the windshield) so that you can see the full field of view to the rear of the car without turning your head around and craning your neck out like an idiot trying to look over the rear headrests, out the tailgate, and around the sides (which will be impossible to do as was proven here).Thank you for implying that I'm an idiot.As I said in my first post, there was a large SUV parked to my right, so even with the mirrors, I couldn't see the light pole, which was WHY I was looking back over my shoulder.Perhaps you should think a little about what you say before you post.

jake75 · Post by **jake75** » Wed Jun 16, 2004 12:00 pm

Well - if I'd have hit that light pole I would consider myself an idiot - not that it can't happen to the best of us. Still trying to imagine where it was in relation to your Vibe and the SUV on your right,and why you didnt know there was a light pole there if you walked to your car in that parking lot. I have heard of this happening where the pole had a low base of 20 inches in diameter and the light pole part you could see was 3 inches.

MJN2 · Post by **MJN2** » Wed Jun 16, 2004 9:10 pm

My artistry isn't that great, but here is how things were in the parking lot.And your description of the light pole is correct. Large concrete base rising about 2.5-3' above the pavement with a 3-4" square light pole on it.It's one thing to call yourself an idiot, it's another thing when someone else calls you that.And for the record, I'm not calling myself that, because I honestly couldn't see the pole. Oddly enough, I'm just calling it an ACCIDENT. Imagine that.

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Mr. Poopypants · Post by **Mr. Poopypants** » Wed Jun 16, 2004 9:31 pm

Quote, originally posted by MJN2 Â»On the lighter side, that yellow from the base of the light pole looks pretty good on the Neptune Do I sense a color pattern change?? I have always been a fan of blue and gold (high school colors) Hopefully you can get your car repaired quickly and cheaply.

Fformula88 · Post by **Fformula88** » Wed Jun 16, 2004 9:41 pm

Sorry to hear that light pole jumped behind you just as you were backing up! Man, that really stinks that the SUV was blocking your view and you didn't see it. I'd turn it into the insurance if I was you. Its not going to be all that cheap of a repair, even without replacing the plastic trim pieces. I think Stang2vibe wasn't really implying you were an idiot, or didn't use your mirrors or do whatever you could to see the pole. I think he was just trying to make a general statement to remind people to be sure they have their mirrors adjusted properly and know how to use them. It really is amazing how many people do not use mirrors, and are spinning their heads around on a swivel to make lane changes and stuff! Good luck with the repairs! It does suck, but it could have been a lot worse! Ever see those insurance institute tests where they back the vehicle into a pole? All those SUV's with tires on the back end up with thousands of dollars of damage because the tire hangs over the bumpers, and when it hits the pole it destroys the whole tailgate!

Atomb · Post by **Atomb** » Wed Jun 16, 2004 10:43 pm

just curious, how fast were you backing up?I'm guessing you weren't going that quickly...but to get a decent indentation like that i'm a little worried about the structural soundness of those panels!

MJN2 · Post by **MJN2** » Wed Jun 16, 2004 10:52 pm

Was moving at about walking pace.

Mavrik · Post by **Mavrik** » Wed Jun 16, 2004 10:56 pm

that looks bad but I have never had any probs with blind spots other then backing into a 20 foot high snow bank forgetting it was there. Didn't do any damage though and I was surprised hah...Buddy of mine hit a post like that also but he was going forward... decided to keep going when he hit it and scraped right down the side of is car... and he wonders why I will NEVER let him drive my car.

MJN2 · Post by **MJN2** » Wed Jun 16, 2004 11:03 pm

I just got off the phone with my insurance agent. Seems that he backed into the same pole last month. He even described exactly where it is in that parking lot. Plus, he's had 3 other claims in the past six months of people backing into the same damn pole.As you can see by my little picture, it's not exactly in a spot where it's out of the way. They restriped the lot a few years back and moved the parking spots over, and left that light pole there, according to my agent. Wonder if I can file a complaint with the owners of the shopping center about it?

Mavrik · Post by **Mavrik** » Wed Jun 16, 2004 11:11 pm

its worth a try, and with so many ppl hitting the same pole should be some good ammo for you. They rezoned the lot and left all those obsticals.

Stang2Vibe · Post by **Stang2Vibe** » Wed Jun 16, 2004 11:31 pm

Thank you to Fformula88 for understanding what I was talking about. My God, I can't say ANYTHING around here without someone reading things the wrong way and taking it personally. What I was accused of in this thread was absolutely ridiculous. I was trying to be helpful and I got shot down. Very typical of this day and age, I wonder why I still bother to help people. Here come the "penalty boxes".Quote, originally posted by MJN2 Â»Thank you for implying that I'm an idiot.That was never done. The implication was made by you, based on a conclusion that was drawn incorrectly. My statement in the second paragraph of the post in question was directed to everyone, not just you. Nobody was calling you an idiot. I'm sorry that you read into this incorrectly and didn't notice that I was addressing everyone, not just you. Some people could benefit from taking a few less grumpy pills in the morning.Quote, originally posted by MJN2 Â»As I said in my first post, there was a large SUV parked to my right, so even with the mirrors, I couldn't see the light pole, which was WHY I was looking back over my shoulder.Yes, I read that. And even after viewing the nice little diagram that you posted, I will stand on my previous statements. Assuming that you were backing out of the parking stall and turning to your right as you backed up, had you been watching out your right mirror, you would have seen the pole's yellow concrete base as soon as you angled past the SUV's rear bumper. The only way that it would have not been visible is if you cut the wheels hard to the right as soon as you started backing up and cleared the rear bumper of the SUV by only about an inch or less. Anything that is within a few feet of the sides of your vehicle will be easily visible in the side mirrors. The pole would have moved into your field of view in time for you stop before brushing against it. As you were looking rearward, you might have seen the upper part of the pole and thought that you were clearing it, forgetting that it has a big fat base that was out of your field of view. Or perhaps the C-pillar of the Vibe was blocking your view of the pole altogether as you backed out. In either case, using the mirror would have solved both problems. That is why I wish that everyone would use them.Quote, originally posted by MJN2 Â»Perhaps you should think a little about what you say before you post.Thank you for telling me what to do and implying that I am thoughtless. I happen to put a LOT of thought into my posts, probably much more so than most people. The problem here was not in what I posted, but how you read it. I could therefore tell you to think a little about what was posted before you reply to it. I'm one of the most easygoing people you could ever meet and I would never have written a post to someone as you read into it. Unfortunately, much is lost in written communication as it eliminates vocal tone inflection and body language from the personal interaction. Maybe you could give someone the benefit of the doubt here before going off on a tangent and jumping down their throat over something that was never said or implied. And again, I say all this without the least bit of anger or any ill will directed toward you, expressed or implied.

MJN2 · Post by **MJN2** » Wed Jun 16, 2004 11:39 pm

My apologies. I was still in an extremely pissy mood about the whole thing when I read your post last night, and went off the deep end.

Stang2Vibe · Post by **Stang2Vibe** » Wed Jun 16, 2004 11:51 pm

Completely understandable. I wouldn't have been very happy about it either.It would be nice to see that pole removed or the problem spaces around it hashed out so no parking is permitted there. Either one would eliminate the problems that seem to be posed by that pole. We just finished a resurfacing job for a very large shopping plaza parking lot (I work for a paving contractor) where the light poles became an issue. All the old poles were being removed and replaced by new ones. They had to be relocated because some of the old poles ended up being right in the middle of the driving lanes when all the stripes were painted. I highly doubt that the lot owners will do anything for you if you complain, but if you insurance company presents them with the information that they gave you about so many people hitting the same stupid pole, then they might remove or relocate it to a better spot. If the insurance company has to keep paying out for damages caused by improper placement of that pole (or improperly painted lines), they could probably threaten the lot owner with a lawsuit for negligence, as the pole (or the lines) seem to be placed negligently.

drummerdude · Post by **drummerdude** » Thu Jun 17, 2004 4:00 am

Quote, originally posted by Mavrik Â»that looks bad but I have never had any probs with blind spots other then backing into a 20 foot high snow bank forgetting it was there. Didn't do any damage though and I was surprised hah...him drive my car.You might want to crawl under the back end and check the bumper clips. The dealer broke mine when takin the car off the truck and wanted to charge me $80 + labor to replace them. they're just flimsy little plastic clips and they break easy. Check them out!

drunkenmaxx · Post by **drunkenmaxx** » Thu Jun 17, 2004 4:07 am

i guarantee, that if you only use your mirrors on the highway in the vibe, you will eventually hit someone who you could not see. after i look in the mirror, i always check my blindspot by turning my head before switching.

Mavrik · Post by **Mavrik** » Thu Jun 17, 2004 5:05 am

Quote, originally posted by drummerdude Â»You might want to crawl under the back end and check the bumper clips. The dealer broke mine when takin the car off the truck and wanted to charge me $80 + labor to replace them. they're just flimsy little plastic clips and they break easy. Check them out!I checked it all out and everything was good. bumper is completely secure.

AKLGT · Post by **AKLGT** » Thu Jun 17, 2004 5:20 am

last march in my folks truck, i was backing out of a parking lot, similar situation, there was a car in the way... but w/ the cap on the truck and me being to short i really have to crane my neck a lot to see around things. mirrors only help somewhat, but i ALWAYS look over my shoulder to see the blind spot. unfortunately, the way the pole was sitting, was at the angle the rear of the shell was so you couldn't see it at all. mirrors didn't work because of the car also blocking the base of it. and then CRUNCH! that cost me $600 to fix! only time other than my ditch dive that i hit anything and caused damage while driving. unless someone else hit me.

jake75 · Post by **jake75** » Thu Jun 17, 2004 7:09 am

Quote, originally posted by MJN2 Â»My artistry isn't that great, but here is how things were in the parking lot.And your description of the light pole is correct. Large concrete base rising about 2.5-3' above the pavement with a 3-4" square light pole on it.It's one thing to call yourself an idiot, it's another thing when someone else calls you that.And for the record, I'm not calling myself that, because I honestly couldn't see the pole. Oddly enough, I'm just calling it an ACCIDENT. Imagine that. Assume the SUV had pulled in the the other end of the space - how did you pull into that space? Could you have gone the other way to get out of the space?

ragingfish · Post by **ragingfish** » Thu Jun 17, 2004 10:42 am

Quote, originally posted by drunkenvibe Â»i guarantee, that if you only use your mirrors on the highway in the vibe, you will eventually hit someone who you could not see. after i look in the mirror, i always check my blindspot by turning my head before switching.You are correct! I had several close calls, which prompted me to put my mirror signals on. Traffic on my left or right side can much more easily tell when I'm about to switch lanes. Even if I look over my shoulder, I can't tell always if someone is there. If someone on my side sees my signal on, they'll beep to warn me they're there.I put them on not only cause I like them, but because they've improved my ability to drive defensively.

Stang2Vibe · Post by **Stang2Vibe** » Thu Jun 17, 2004 12:35 pm

Ok, ok, allow me to clarify for myself. Using mirrors to change lanes and for backing up in parking lots are 2 different things. Nobody is going to be passing you as you back out of a parking stall. On a multiple lane road, checking quickly over your shoulder is strongly recommended. As a good driver is supposed to do, I am constantly monitoring the traffic situation around me as I drive on highways. We were taught in driver's ed that you are to regularly check your mirrors to see what is happening with the traffic all around you and to also always leave yourself a path of escape should an emergency maneuver be required. With my Vibe, I have noticed that cars to my left tend to disappear from view in my mirrors just before they are visible in my peripheral vision to the side. I, too, give a quick glance over my left shoulder after signaling for a lane change and before actually changing lanes. To the right side, in almost all cases, a vehicle to my passenger side is visible in either the mirror or in my plain view. Again, if ever in doubt, I shoot a quick glance that way to verify that the space is open.What I, and some others I have talked to think looks idiotic is watching someone trying to back up in a parking lot while completely twisted around with their right arm pressing against the rear of the passenger seat to help keep them twisted around. This is especially true of the Surburban-driving soccer mom who is trying to back up a 22 foot long vehicle while craned around attempting to look over 18 rows of seats. If you can't drive it, don't get a vehicle that big. Spinning yourself around like that in some crazy contorted position is not going to help you see out the back. Give up on trying to see out the back because you don't have to and you won't be able to. Just pay attention to what is going on to either side of you as you back up and you won't hit anything. Unless it is directly behind you, in which case you should have checked for such obsticles before entering your vehicle. Also, I like manual transmission cars, so if I'm spun around in some goofy position extending my neck around like some ostrich, I'm also pulling my feet away from the pedals. I can't safely operate the clutch, brake, and gas pedals when in such a position, which causes an unsafe and non-defensive driver-like condition.

VIBERAITOR · Post by **VIBERAITOR** » Thu Jun 17, 2004 12:49 pm

I was backing out of my drive way...and I didnt see the person (who constantly parks her nasty lil sunfire at the end of my driveway)Make a long story short...I tagged it. I was soo pist. Fortunatly not much damage to my car. I have to say that is one thing I hope they improve this somehow. I am soo cautious now with the blind site.

michaelgt · Post by **michaelgt** » Thu Jun 17, 2004 9:06 pm

For the record, the Suburban is only 18.25 feet, and only contains 3 rows of seating. Many soccer moms and dads can drive these vehicles as well as anybody driving a different vehicle.

Atomb · Post by **Atomb** » Fri Jun 18, 2004 1:03 am

the driver's side blind spot was the FIRST annoyance i had with the vibe...even during the test drive. Coming from a 98 Golf which I thought (even with the hatch thick back pillars) had great views, the Vibe driver's side blind spot almost got me in trouble the first 3 or 4 days i owned the car. but that could just be the usual 'getting used to a new car' adjustment period.

rasermon · Post by **rasermon** » Fri Jun 18, 2004 5:13 am

Quote, originally posted by drunkenvibe Â»i guarantee, that if you only use your mirrors on the highway in the vibe, you will eventually hit someone who you could not see. after i look in the mirror, i always check my blindspot by turning my head before switching.Ditto's.Thats how I drive and seems to work just fine.

Stang2Vibe · Post by **Stang2Vibe** » Sun Jun 20, 2004 2:51 am

Quote, originally posted by michaelgt Â»For the record, the Suburban is only 18.25 feet, and only contains 3 rows of seating. Many soccer moms and dads can drive these vehicles as well as anybody driving a different vehicle. LOL. Thanks for the measurements update, but I was only exercising my right to use creative license. Unless that right has been stripped as well around here. And soccer or non-soccer moms and dads doesn't matter. Yes, there are lots of people out there who can handle large vehicles very well, of either gender. My one aunt drives school buses and does so quite well. A few of our drivers at my work can take a tractor trailer with a 40 foot long trailer and drive it around town like it was a Mini Cooper. I was referring to the soccer moms I see driving an empty Suburban who take 25 minutes to back out of a parking stall and clog up the entire parking lot because they can't drive the thing. Maybe that one belongs in the "pet peeves" thread I guess.I forgot to mention it earlier and see that someone else has. The little convex spot mirrors added onto the side mirrors work great to eliminate/reduce blind spots. Otherwise, you have to bob your head around looking in the mirror to get a look at everything visible in it.

Stang2Vibe · Post by **Stang2Vibe** » Sun Jun 20, 2004 3:22 am

Quote, originally posted by joatmon Â»I really don't care what other drivers think about me as I look around And that was never the point. I could give a crap less what people look like as they are driving. But when they needlessly hold me up and aggrevate the hell out of me because they don't know how to drive, then I get just a little worked up. I seem to feel it necessary to add a disclaimer here that the preceding comment was not directed toward any specific member or group of members, expressed or implied. Transmission of this broadcast without the owner's explicit permission is strictly prohibited. Stang2Vibe is not responsible for any damages whatsoever, whether incidental or consequential, as a result of reading, responding to, and/or thinking about this post or any prior to it. There. I think I got them all covered.Quote, originally posted by joatmon Â»I know you're trying to be helpful, but it reads like "do it my way or you are stupid" Just passing that along as a happy helpful tip, because I know that's not what you intended, so have to assume you didn't see it comes across that way.Well I sure see it now. It's as plain as the big pink elephant sitting in the living room. Such a shame that some, disenfranchised by my system of beliefs (which for whatever the cocamamie reason of the week, I am not permitted to discuss and/or allude to around here), want to read things into what I write that aren't there in order to cause problems and blame me for it. Maybe I'll just give them what they want and they won't have to read my posts anymore.And to keep on topic, I will finish my commentary on the subject by saying simply--use the gosh darned mirrors. They have been put on cars for decades now for a good reason so learn to use them for the purpose that they were meant. Look over your shoulder, out the back, at the ceiling, put on the cruise control on the highway and climb on the roof of the car to get a good look, whatever you want to do.

Stang2Vibe · Post by **Stang2Vibe** » Sun Jun 20, 2004 12:55 pm

No, joat, I felt no personal attack from you, nor did I direct any toward you. No sparring necessary; if it were, we would both know it. I understood, verbatim, what you were saying. As for drama, I hardly believe that I am to blame for any of that in this thread. The original poster here and I had a misunderstanding over wording and that was cleared up. Then, as if you missed my explanation to him directly before your initial post here, you seemed to feel as if I was singling you out and calling you an idiot. What gives? Joat, put down that bottle of grumpy pills, take a vacation, and return safely to us to once again share your wit and wisdom. I mean that sincerely. Have a good vacation, I'll be having a nice short one for the trip to the MI Supermeet. Maybe I should wear my bulletproof vest there with the way things are going here lately.

Stang2Vibe · Post by **Stang2Vibe** » Sun Jun 20, 2004 1:17 pm

More fun with the penalty boxes!Quote, originally posted by silverawd26 Â»Going to make this plain and simple.Well thank God. Somehow I've inadvertantly done plenty to "f" this thread all up. Apologies all around to anyone who felt offended by the misunderstanding.Quote, originally posted by silverawd26 Â»I use mirrors when packing up and switching lanes but I also at the same time turn my head and check. This is the way I was shown in drivers training and I had to pass a road test by doing this also. Complete ditto to all that here. Quote, originally posted by silverawd26 Â»Even if you look in your mirrors, there is still are blind spots in them and the entire idea of a mirror saying "Object may appear closer" or something like that.The mirrors are usually stamped with the phrase "Objects in the mirror are closer than they appear". It is put there for liability purposes because it is a slightly concave lens that makes up the side mirrors. They can distort the appearance of distance in them, and that is somewhat intentional because a wider field of view is afforded by a concave mirror. All the oddly worded little phrase means is that what you see in the mirror is not as far away from you as it looks in that mirror. If you haven't developed a sense of perception for the error in distance caused by the curvature of the mirror, then you may turn or change lanes and hit another vehicle that you thought was farther away. I don't know how more complete of an answer I can give than that and I hope it doesn't offend anyone. Seems you can't say "boo" around here anymore without "offending" someone. Seems that PC-ness has a strangle hold on GenVibe now too.Quote, originally posted by silverawd26 Â»Checking mirrors and turning your head to check the blind spot is the correct way to drive and to back up.No quibble with that here. In fact, it's exactly what I was saying. But I guess since I happened to be the one saying it...Quote, originally posted by silverawd26 Â»My first vehicle was a 1992 Dodge Conversion Van Full Size. That had more blind spots than anything.Except for a 1979 U model Mack tandem-axle dump truck.Quote, originally posted by silverawd26 Â»Always turn your head and use your mirrors.Yes, repetition is key to education.Quote, originally posted by silverawd26 Â»Rip my post apart, set it on fire, roll it down a hill. But can some people just take a chill?Well it's been fun, but now I'm done. Unless anyone has any further questions. And don't worry, I'm as cool as a cucumber, bud. Cool as a cucumber.

Post by **NSimkins** » Mon Jun 21, 2004 1:32 am

OK, I think we're done with all his other himhaw. Please keep the future posts related to the topic at hand. Thanks.

MJN2 · Post by **MJN2** » Mon Jun 21, 2004 2:20 am

Well, just got the estimate done on my lunch break.Anyone want to guess at it? EDIT: Anyway, estimate is $1650.08. Ow.

MJN2 · Post by **MJN2** » Wed Jul 07, 2004 8:46 am

Car's at the bodyshop being repaired. Should be done in a few days. In the meantime, I'm driving this for a rental.I'm thinking when the time comes to trade the Vibe in, this will be my next ride. I'm loving this thing

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ragingfish · Post by **ragingfish** » Wed Jul 07, 2004 8:52 am

Found on the road dead, eh?Personally, I'd rather walk home then drive home in one of those...just my opinion though!

joatmon · Post by **joatmon** » Wed Jul 07, 2004 9:00 am

1650 isn't too bad, I suppose, more than I would want to pay, but some of these vibe body repairs can be really expensive. if it was a car from the 60's, you would have dented the chrome bumper, and that's all. Nowadays, the cars are safer, protect the occupants better, but by sacrificing car body parts.I guess it's a trade off worth having, but it still seems like cars are expensive to repair.( far out radical Dyno-mite)!)

Sputnik · Post by **Sputnik** » Wed Jul 07, 2004 9:00 am

Quote Â»Found on the road dead, eh?Fix or repair daily? Sorry, now I've really gone off topic! Whoopsee, my bad! Back to our regularly scheduled thread.

Vibe · Post by **Vibe** » Wed Jul 07, 2004 9:26 am

[QUOTE=Sputnik]Fix or repair daily? F***ing Old Road Dog...

Sputnik · Post by **Sputnik** » Wed Jul 07, 2004 9:35 am

LOL okay okay Much as I love it, I think we've bashed Ford enough for one thread... we'd better stop before Nick swoops down on us.

MJN2 · Post by **MJN2** » Wed Jul 07, 2004 8:01 pm

Put it this way - unless I hit the gas hard (and watch the gas gauge head towards E while I do it) I can hardly hear that 5.4L V-8. It's like night and day versus my dad's '01 F-150.And for the record, my family has WORKED for Ford since the 1920's (great grandfather). The Vibe is my first (and probably last) non-Ford product.