Question about sway bars

vibepa · Post by **vibepa** » Wed Jun 02, 2004 10:50 am

I am planning on purchasing a sway bar kit soon as my first mods. I was wondering on its effectiveness on a non-lower vibe. At this time I am not planning on lowering my car. Since I will not be lowering the vibe would the anti-sway bar be still effective and make a noticable change to the handling of my car?

shibaman · Post by **shibaman** » Wed Jun 02, 2004 12:06 pm

I had the Hotchkis sway bars on my car first before springs and it works great. They make the car handle and improve the ride quality. The rear can be done at home but the front should be done by a mechanic with a rack. About 2.5 - 3 hrs labor. Their springs are great for handling but may be a bit stiff for some people. The rear spring rate is higher than any other lowered spring with the idea of reducing the typical understeer of a fwd car. For me the trade off is worth it.

vibepa · Post by **vibepa** » Wed Jun 02, 2004 12:13 pm

I would have no problem with lowering my vibe but I live in PA and we do get some nasty winters so I am afraid of lowering it and not being able to drive in the snow.

Smokin' Rubber · Post by **Smokin' Rubber** » Wed Jun 02, 2004 3:55 pm

Hey MB(MadBill, I'm just going to be too lazy from now on to type it all the way out) here is a questions for you... again lolIf strut bars are non-effective then how effective could sway bars possibily be?

Smokin' Rubber · Post by **Smokin' Rubber** » Wed Jun 02, 2004 4:23 pm

Guess I'll just have to buy some and try it out oy the list of stuff to do just keeps getting longer and longer, soon my car will cost as much a BMW lol especially the whole engine rebuild to get 350 whp =D

AKLGT · Post by **AKLGT** » Wed Jun 02, 2004 4:37 pm

ha ha ha! yes, i'm at $4K and counting! so i had to stop and pace myself... i've got plenty of items on my wish list! but my financial focus has changed drastically!

Mavrik · Post by **Mavrik** » Wed Jun 02, 2004 8:04 pm

What sort of approx dollor figure would we be talking here for Strut Bar, Sway Bar and a good set of springs that drop the car say 2 inches?

Nervous_Dog · Post by **Nervous_Dog** » Wed Jun 02, 2004 9:38 pm

Check ptuning.com. They have a package with Hotchkis springs and lower sway bar and a Freedom Design strut bar. If you go to matrixowners.com they have a banner you can click on and you'll get an extra 5% off. I only say to go thru matrixowners.com becauase I've never seen the ptuning banner on Genvibe.Here's what I'm talking about: http://www.ptuning.com/html/It...=Vibe

Faultline · Post by **Faultline** » Sat Jun 05, 2004 1:03 pm

Quote, originally posted by trdvibe Â»ha ha ha! yes, i'm at $4K and counting! so i had to stop and pace myself... i've got plenty of items on my wish list! but my financial focus has changed drastically!focus?? when did you get a "focus"??why would you do that? were't you happy with the Vibe?? I believe that i am communicating my communication problem

Smokin' Rubber · Post by **Smokin' Rubber** » Sat Jun 05, 2004 1:17 pm

Quote, originally posted by Faultline Â»focus?? when did you get a "focus"??why would you do that? were't you happy with the Vibe?? I believe that i am communicating my communication problem *scratches head* what? lol

Fialchar · Post by **Fialchar** » Mon Jun 07, 2004 5:53 am

I believe she meant that the things that she needed to spend her money on has changed, in other words, she has bills and other things she has to spend her money on and the Vibe is being put on hold. Hope, please correct me if I'm wrong. (I was thought I was wrong before, but later on I found out I was mistaken )

AKLGT · Post by **AKLGT** » Mon Jun 07, 2004 6:36 am

Quote, originally posted by Fialchar Â»I believe she meant that the things that she needed to spend her money on has changed, in other words, she has bills and other things she has to spend her money on and the Vibe is being put on hold. Hope, please correct me if I'm wrong. (I was thought I was wrong before, but later on I found out I was mistaken )yes, exactly! and why the hell would i EVER buy a focus! they aren't just slow, but fugly! besides, one of the supervisors at work has a little green one... and i can't have a car someone else at work has already, now can i?

Fialchar · Post by **Fialchar** » Mon Jun 07, 2004 6:37 am

Quote, originally posted by trdvibe Â»besides, one of the supervisors at work has a little green one... and i can't have a car someone else at work has already, now can i? Only if you get a better model, or soup it up more than theirs

vibepa · Post by **vibepa** » Mon Jun 07, 2004 8:56 am

So any answers to my orginal question?

AKLGT · Post by **AKLGT** » Mon Jun 07, 2004 9:18 am

yes, the sway bars will improve your cornering without lowering the car. it's no different from adding sway bars to a truck.

vibepa · Post by **vibepa** » Mon Jun 07, 2004 9:21 am

Sorry, I misread shibaman post.Thank you all for the help.

Faultline · Post by **Faultline** » Wed Jun 16, 2004 2:40 pm

Quote, originally posted by trdvibe Â»yes, exactly! and why the hell would i EVER buy a focus! they aren't just slow, but fugly! besides, one of the supervisors at work has a little green one... and i can't have a car someone else at work has already, now can i? Of course i was just kidding around about the focus....and yes they are slow. So slow that the guy at my work who owned one trades his in for a Lexus IS300....he is not so slow anymore

satur9 · Post by **satur9** » Thu Jun 17, 2004 5:36 am

strut tower bars do work some just work better on other cars. our strut towers are pretty close to the firewall which adds some rigidity. if our towers were farther out or we had control arm front suspension or something a strut tower bar may make a drastic difference than they do now

Psychobroker · Post by **Psychobroker** » Thu Jun 17, 2004 6:48 am

Quote, originally posted by Nervous_Dog Â»Check ptuning.com. They have a package with Hotchkis springs and lower sway bar and a Freedom Design strut bar. If you go to matrixowners.com they have a banner you can click on and you'll get an extra 5% off. I only say to go thru matrixowners.com becauase I've never seen the ptuning banner on Genvibe.Here's what I'm talking about: http://www.ptuning.com/html/It...=Vibe FYI, those are Progress springs and rear anti-sway bar, not Hotchkis. Progress' drop is greater than Hotckis, so beware.

AKLGT · Post by **AKLGT** » Fri Jun 18, 2004 11:33 pm

do sway bars drop your suspension too?

shibaman · Post by **shibaman** » Sat Jun 19, 2004 6:37 am

Sway bars do not change the height of the car. The Hotchkis springs drop more than they say. 2"+ in front and 1 1/2+ in the rear. I only have about 1 loose finger space between the 17" oem tire and the wheel well in front. I am very pleased what the Hotchkis sways and springs have done for the handling of my car. I have a STB from Devlop and they do tighten up the front end on a modified car.

AJ_'04 Vibe · Post by **AJ_'04 Vibe** » Thu Jun 24, 2004 4:45 am

Just so some of you better understand why strut tower bars and sway bars are good, I'll try to explain it for ya'. We'll start with a Vibe that has neither...Picture yourself going ~50 mph through a long, wide left curve. As you may well know, a lot of the weight of the car is shifted to the outside tires, or in this case the right wheels.As the weight is transferred, the right side of the car moves down a little. This pushes the right wheels "UP" into the wheel wells.I know that all seems rather obvious, but what people seem to overlook is what's happening on the OTHER side. While you're flying through the long, wide left curve, and your right tires are doing everything they can to keep the car on the road, the inside tires (or the "left tires" in this scenario) are just along for the ride.As the weight is transferred, the left tires start to lose traction. Not only is the weight being transferred to the right wheels, the springs on the left side of the car are literally helping lift the car up and shifting the weight even more.Two bad things happen here. 1.) The structure of the body twists as the weight is transferred because of the momentum of the body wanting to continue to go straight. It's called inertia. It's similar to a cardboard box when you push on the top while holding the bottom still. When looking at the front of the cardboard box, it goes from looking like this|__|To this...__ That is what strut tower braces help prevent. It ties the two sides of the box together, similar to putting a lid on the box.2.) The second thing is that all the weight of the car is pushed to one side, over straining the suspension. The car can either roll or slide. Getting it to do neither is the goal. A sway bar will (obviously) attach the right side suspension to the left and act like a lever between the two. Whenever one side is moved, the other side will try to move with it in the same direction.So while the right side wheels are being pushed up, the sway bar will try to push up on the left side also. This will keep the left tires from losing as much traction, and they'll be able to help the right tires keep the car on the road.And since the left side of the car won't lift as much, the car will also be less likely to roll over because there will be less weight transfer.I hope that helps some of you understand why the two help a car. One thing to keep in mind though is going TOO big when choosing a sway bar. You can actually cause both tires to slide more by using too stiff of a sway bar. There's a fine line of transfer that has to be found. Too much weight transfer and you roll over. Too little and you slide. The strut bar doesn't matter. The thicker and stronger, the better. Having the body twist is never good for anything.

savedbyzero · Post by **savedbyzero** » Thu Jun 24, 2004 4:47 am

Wow! Great little write up!

AJ_'04 Vibe · Post by **AJ_'04 Vibe** » Thu Jun 24, 2004 4:55 am

Thank you. While I re-read it, I noticed that I forgot to mention something about the sway bar.While I said the right wheels going up causes the left side to go up also, the opposite ALSO happens.While the right wheels are trying to go up and using the sway bars to also lift the left wheels "up", the left wheels are trying to go "down" toward the road and uses the sway bar to push the right wheels down into the pavement.Basically they work well together by working opposite of each other. Like two kids on a see-saw.

savedbyzero · Post by **savedbyzero** » Thu Jun 24, 2004 5:13 am

Quote, originally posted by AJ_'04 Vibe Â»Thank you. While I re-read it, I noticed that I forgot to mention something about the sway bar.While I said the right wheels going up causes the left side to go up also, the opposite ALSO happens.While the right wheels are trying to go up and using the sway bars to also lift the left wheels "up", the left wheels are trying to go "down" toward the road and uses the sway bar to push the right wheels down into the pavement.Basically they work well together by working opposite of each other. Like two kids on a see-saw. Too late! You flunk!

goodvibe · Post by **goodvibe** » Thu Jun 24, 2004 10:29 pm

The progress rear bar is great unless you're a hard core racer. It does more to balance the car than springs but both is the way to go. The larger front bar of the Hotchkis setup will help you corner flater and transition quicker but the car actually has more understeer than the progress setup. Due to the force transfer and lifting of the inside wheel when turning, there is greater inside front wheel spin (losing available power) when gassing it through a turn because of it getting light. The greater the cornering force, the worse this gets. An LSD helps a lot when your FWD car can generate high G's. This is also why many spring arrangements like TRD/Prokit/HR are nonprogressive in the rear. It keeps the cars rear from initially squating in a turn and helps the inside front stay planted. Very stiff springs with a progress rear may be the best handling setup but not something I would like to drive every day. If you're worried about snow, the TRD/Prokit spring still have almost 7" of road clearence after install. Plenty for winter and as much as many cars from the factory.

vibemoon · Post by **vibemoon** » Wed Jun 30, 2004 7:01 am

How would this apply to the independent rear suspension on the AWD?Do you have a link for the progress sway bar?

ragingfish · Post by **ragingfish** » Wed Jun 30, 2004 8:44 am

Can you put a sway bar on a car with independent suspension?

goodvibe · Post by **goodvibe** » Wed Jun 30, 2004 11:49 am

Absolutely. ie: the front of your car.

ragingfish · Post by **ragingfish** » Wed Jun 30, 2004 12:38 pm

Fantastic point!

drrevdr · Post by **drrevdr** » Wed Jun 30, 2004 11:24 pm

Sorry if this is a dumb question (I really don't know the answer), but:Has anyone put sway bars on a 2004? Reason I ask is a) most of the posters on this thread appear to have '02s or '03s b)most of the parts sites list the parts for 2002-2003 Vibes (suggesting either that I'd need a different bar for an '04 or that they have not updated their site content in some time)Any insight would be greatly appreciated. I have an '04 gt. I am considering (first) a rear sway bar and (maybe then) a front one to make it a little stiffer. Other than that it is a lot of fun to drive.Thanks

Raven · Post by **Raven** » Thu Jul 01, 2004 3:21 am

As far as I know there is no difference between the '03 and '04. The part# for my Tein springs was the same.

Dezz1 · Post by **Dezz1** » Mon Jul 05, 2004 2:02 pm

VibePA, I just wanted to say that I do understand the harsh winters in PA, however, if you would like to have the level of performance with the level of everyday useage, do not drop the car more than one and a half inches in each well. Any lower would stiffin your ride too much, and the front lower grill will eat snow. I have Eibach's Pro and they are perfect, they are stiff enough to not shake my teeth loose, yet I can drive carelessly through the harsh streets of NC w/o popping my tires.

Question about sway bars

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