The evils and pleasantries of drugs discussion (Contd.)

Fialchar · Post by **Fialchar** » Thu Apr 08, 2004 3:27 pm

Continuing from the other post.

Fialchar · Post by **Fialchar** » Thu Apr 08, 2004 3:31 pm

Honestly, I enjoy certain ones. Take pot for instance, I don't see the moral problem with smoking a little pot in the comfort and safety of your own house for one's own enjoyment. However, I never really saw the point in taking, say, a ten strip of acid and running around town causing mayhem.I think it's more about the responsibilty of the person,a nd whether they're using the drug, or abusing it.

Stang2Vibe · Post by **Stang2Vibe** » Thu Apr 08, 2004 5:35 pm

I think that the basis and end of the arguement comes down to the legality of it. A significant enough portion of the population got together and decided that these things were bad and caused lots of problems. It was then decided that these things were bad enough for our society that we should ban them and punish those who disobey the ban. Remember, many of today's worst street drugs (or their direct decendents) used to be sold over the counter to anyone who wished to purchase them. They were promoted as curing all kinds of things from stomachache to baldness. It's not like some group of congressmen sat around one day and said "let's see how we can prevent people out there from having fun". They got together and studied the effects of these substances on the human body and society with highly competent medical personnel and sociologists. The findings were pretty much unanimous and it was decided that there was much more harm than good from having these things around in society and so they were outlawed. The way I see it is, that we have these laws for a good reason, whether we like them or agree with them or not. That is irrelavent. There are other societies in the world that feel differently about them or some of them. So I say, instead of forcing this society to change and make them accept things that they feel are wrong or harmful, why not join the society where one is free to mess with these things? If someone feels so strongly that they must have illegal drugs in their lives, that's fine, but go and use them where they are accepted as the "norm". If someone feels so strongly that they must use these things regularly, then renounce your American citizenship and become a legal citizen of whatever society you would like to join that accepts that behavior and view. If I really hated what this country has to offer that much, I would happily up and leave rather than live here forever and be miserable and keep forcing this society to change to the way I would like them to be.And the old excuse that "well, I'm just doing it in the privacy of my own home and nobody else sees it or is affected by it" just simply is not true. You had to buy it somewhere, didn't you? And what is that person doing to get that money and what are they doing with the money they earn from the sale? It generally follows a chain that leads to some very wealthy person who makes a living off of breaking many laws. Does nobody see something wrong with that? Also, the person who sells it to you, who else are they selling it to? Are they also selling it to my 12 year old after school? Are they selling that drug or others to someone who is a serious addict with many problems who sleeps on the streets and genuinely needs help? If the person you are buying it from doesn't do that, what about the person that he/she is getting it from? And the money they profit off of it, does that go to buy weapons that harm innocent bystanders? Police doing what we pay them to do? Does it put another tank of gas in their car so they can drive to the other side of the city to start selling it to other kids in school? Does that money go toward paying for the druglord's fancy house? Fancy car? All the super expensive things that make kids and others aspire to be illegal drug dealers too? Think about that. Is this really all that far fetched? Is it really impossible for these things to be going on out there in the real world? Absolutely not, because these are things that the innocent law abiding citizens must hand over their hard earned money to the government for to help fight. Imagine how much money could be used to better educate more children in this country or help find a person living in poverty who wants to do more for themselves a better job or some health care if we didn't have to spend all that money on fighting illegal drugs. Its all ruined because of the selfishness and short-sightedness of thousands of people in this country who think that what they are doing behind their closed doors is not affecting millions of people outside those doors. I'm sorry, but it does affect people out there. It affects me. I choose to be as much of a law abiding good citzen as I can, not because I am forced to, but because I would much rather be a postively contributing member to the society in which I live instead of a drain on its resources that inhibits its growth and harms others living in it. If we could somehow take all these negative factors out of the issue as a whole, I could really give a damn less what people do inside their own home. But when a given behavior, whether acted on publicly or privately, negatively affects society, families, and individuals, it must be stopped. That's how I feel and that's why I don't do drugs, I never have, and God willing, I never will.

cohocarl · Post by **cohocarl** » Thu Apr 08, 2004 7:08 pm

Quote, originally posted by Stang2Vibe Â»A significant enough portion of the population got together and decided that these things were bad and caused lots of problems. It was then decided that these things were bad enough for our society that we should ban them and punish those who disobey the ban......... Most people are not aware how/why Marijuana became illegal. The drive to make it illegal was based on the inflow of Mexicans into the states, and Mormons who used it in the early 1900's. It was not factually based on health, social, or economics effects of Marijuana. A few quotes from Harry J. Anslinger (Burearu of Narcotics) during his drive to make marijuana illegal.: "There are 100,000 total marijuana smokers in the US, and most are Negroes, Hispanics, Filipinos, and entertainers. Their Satanic music, jazz, and swing, result from marijuana use. This marijuana causes white women to seek sexual relations with Negroes, entertainers, and any others." "...the primary reason to outlaw marijuana is its effect on the degenerate races." "Marijuana is an addictive drug which produces in its users insanity, criminality, and death." "Reefer makes darkies think they're as good as white men." "Marihuana leads to pacifism and communist brainwashing" "You smoke a joint and you're likely to kill your brother." "Marijuana is the most violence-causing drug in the history of mankind" Quote Â»They got together and studied the effects of these substances on the human body and society with highly competent medical personnel and sociologists.......The way I see it is, that we have these laws for a good reason. Don't take this the wrong way, but do some research on how Marijuana was made illegal. Crack open a beer and do some reading. Here's a start: http://blogs.salon.com/0002762....html

Stang2Vibe · Post by **Stang2Vibe** » Thu Apr 08, 2004 7:58 pm

Sorry, the only thing I will read on Salon's website would be anything written by David Horowitz. The rest is just leftist communist drivel. Find me a JAMA article or something like that saying that mass use of street drugs for recreational purposes is beneficial to human health or society and I'd love to see it.Posting quotes from a blatant racist speaking during a trying racial climate is no way to ground an arguement. Unless the arguement was for civil rights or something of that nature. This site also has a strict policy against posting racist comments. That post seems to be a blatant violation of that policy, even if you are quoting another source. Please consider what you post more carefully.

cohocarl · Post by **cohocarl** » Thu Apr 08, 2004 9:18 pm

Quote, originally posted by Stang2Vibe Â»Posting quotes from a blatant racist speaking during a trying racial climate is no way to ground an arguement. Unless the arguement was for civil rights or something of that nature. This site also has a strict policy against posting racist comments. That post seems to be a blatant violation of that policy, even if you are quoting another source. Please consider what you post more carefully.Sorry if I offended you if I posted quotes from the head of the Burearu of Narcotics at that time. I in no way agree with these quotes, nor should anyone including yourself. I posted them to show how ignorant and racist the lawmakers were at the time.

scherry2 · Post by **scherry2** » Thu Apr 08, 2004 9:20 pm

Quote, originally posted by Stang2Vibe Â»I think that the basis and end of the arguement comes down to the legality of it. A significant enough portion of the population got together and decided that these things were bad and caused lots of problems. It was then decided that these things were bad enough for our society that we should ban them and punish those who disobey the ban. the reason pot is illegal is that the tabbacco and chemical companys never had a chance to make a profit from it because it grows wild so easily. i have said this before: go out and read "The Emperor Wears No Clothes: Hemp and the Marijuana Conspiracy" http://www.amazon.ca/exec/obid...69648 there are more FACTS in this book than the MAN wants you to know.and as i see it the government ( big brother) has made enough decisions to keep me safe. look at the state of the world. the guys running it are straight . stang2vibe: take it easy open your eyes and heart and diversify your reading material.

Mavrik · Post by **Mavrik** » Thu Apr 08, 2004 10:55 pm

I don't need material reading to convince me that drugs are not good for you. I have never taken any and never will. Never needed to be told they were bad either. All I had to do was watch my friends who do drugs and watch the affects it has on their lives. Oh yes I am sure that just because someone does drugs does not mean their life is pathetic so don't get me wrong. But from my experience, my friends who do drugs... the state of health and lifestyle they are in is not for me. They could possibly be the exception to the group but the life around me influences me and who I wish to be or not to be. And I have chosen the clean one with a good job, money in the bank and great health.I can only imagine what would happen of some of their drugs of choice became legal...

MonotoneSatellite · Post by **MonotoneSatellite** » Fri Apr 09, 2004 12:55 am

Quote, originally posted by Stang2Vibe Â»And the old excuse that "well, I'm just doing it in the privacy of my own home and nobody else sees it or is affected by it" just simply is not true. You had to buy it somewhere, didn't you? And what is that person doing to get that money and what are they doing with the money they earn from the sale? It generally follows a chain that leads to some very wealthy person who makes a living off of breaking many laws. Does nobody see something wrong with that? Also, the person who sells it to you, who else are they selling it to? Are they also selling it to my 12 year old after school? Are they selling that drug or others to someone who is a serious addict with many problems who sleeps on the streets and genuinely needs help? If the person you are buying it from doesn't do that, what about the person that he/she is getting it from? And the money they profit off of it, does that go to buy weapons that harm innocent bystanders? Police doing what we pay them to do? Does it put another tank of gas in their car so they can drive to the other side of the city to start selling it to other kids in school? Does that money go toward paying for the druglord's fancy house? Fancy car? All the super expensive things that make kids and others aspire to be illegal drug dealers too? Think about that. Is this really all that far fetched? Is it really impossible for these things to be going on out there in the real world? Absolutely not, because these are things that the innocent law abiding citizens must hand over their hard earned money to the government for to help fight. Imagine how much money could be used to better educate more children in this country or help find a person living in poverty who wants to do more for themselves a better job or some health care if we didn't have to spend all that money on fighting illegal drugs. Its all ruined because of the selfishness and short-sightedness of thousands of people in this country who think that what they are doing behind their closed doors is not affecting millions of people outside those doors. I'm sorry, but it does affect people out there. It affects me. I choose to be as much of a law abiding good citzen as I can, not because I am forced to, but because I would much rather be a postively contributing member to the society in which I live instead of a drain on its resources that inhibits its growth and harms others living in it. If we could somehow take all these negative factors out of the issue as a whole, I could really give a damn less what people do inside their own home. But when a given behavior, whether acted on publicly or privately, negatively affects society, families, and individuals, it must be stopped. That's how I feel and that's why I don't do drugs, I never have, and God willing, I never will.Stang, I agree with you. I wish that more people would behave within the confines of the law. Most (if not all) of societies ills are due to willing and direct crossing of the law. Everyday those who stand to profit from the drug trade do so at all costs. They would as soon slit my throat as shake my hand. The have amassed power and money that most can only dream about. They know the system and use every flaw in it to continue their trade.However, the last paragraph of you post further illustrates the need to reevaluate the effectiveness of our national stance towards drug use. Billions of dollars are poured annually into a policy that is ineffective. The drug trade is as profitable as ever. If the country were to adopt the same stance that Las Vegas took when battling organized crime in the late 1940's, the playing field would change drastically. If the government legalized, regulated and taxed marijuana alone, the economic boom would help fund many other worthy programs.The problem with the whole issue is legislated morality. Any time our government has enacted legislation based on moral principals (alcohol, abortion, gambling, porn, gun control, etc) all sides involved loose all ability to act in a logical and rational manner. We just revert to shouting and fighting. Whichever side shouts louder generally wins and goes on to spread the message to all who listen and most who don't. In the end, so long as the illegal drugs remain illegal, I will not partake. If, at some point in my life, our society reevaluates the issue and decides to change the policies that are currently on the books, I may just have to give it a try.

robdog · Post by **robdog** » Fri Apr 09, 2004 1:13 am

I don't think he was trying to insult of offend anybody with his quote from another person a long time ago when things were alot different. There was no violation of policy there, he quoted someone else.

Fialchar · Post by **Fialchar** » Fri Apr 09, 2004 2:41 am

Quote, originally posted by MonotoneSatellite Â»Everyday those who stand to profit from the drug trade do so at all costs. They would as soon slit my throat as shake my hand. The have amassed power and money that most can only dream about. They know the system and use every flaw in it to continue their trade.What movie did you hear this from again? Most of the drug dealers have normal jobs as their primary jobs, only the people growing/importing drugs make that kind of money/power.As far as the racial comments, I believe that his point in quoting the person was to show the absurdity of the statements and the closed-mindeness of the speaker. There are places where they have made certain drugs legal, and the crime rates went down noticably. Can anyone list some of the evils of growing pot and smoking it? The only law you're in violation of is due to the illegality of the plant, and there's several politicians who are for the legalization of the marijuana plant. If the government would grow it for the purpose of sale to people of 18 or 21 or whatever age they choose, they could then tax it and pay for better schooling, better roads, and the crime rate would drop.

AKLGT · Post by **AKLGT** » Fri Apr 09, 2004 3:06 am

sorry, but i still stand by my firm beliefs that marijuana and growing of it should remain illegal. honestly, i think there should be more restrictions on alcohol and tobacco too. up here, pot is very popular. never was interested in it.. not after watching my brother throw his life away for it and still does. i can tell when he's high as a kite... very talkative. people will always do what they want. they will always find a way to rationalize it and do it if it pleases them. i for one, speed. i drive usually well over the speed limit so i don't say that i'm any better or less than the guy who smokes pot. just don't believe it to be of any real benefit to our country by allowing it. if i get pulled over for speeding, i pay the fine and acknowledge the consequences. it's called responsibility. so, if you want to smoke it, then smoke it. just accept the consequences of your actions if you get caught. just mho.

Stang2Vibe · Post by **Stang2Vibe** » Fri Apr 09, 2004 6:48 am

Quote, originally posted by Fialchar Â»What movie did you hear this from again? Most of the drug dealers have normal jobs as their primary jobs, only the people growing/importing drugs make that kind of money/power.You gotta go a few steps higher on the chain. The "movie" is called reality.Quote, originally posted by Fialchar Â»There are places where they have made certain drugs legal, and the crime rates went down noticably.LOL, I always loved blowing up that arguement. Here, follow this. I know of a fool-proof way of reducing the crime rate in this country to ZERO. That's right! Absolutely zero crimes. Wanna know how? Just abolish all laws. Of course the crime rate is going to drop when there are less/no laws! Duh! But that doesn't stop the adverse activity, it only encourages it.

Stang2Vibe · Post by **Stang2Vibe** » Fri Apr 09, 2004 7:02 am

Quote, originally posted by robdog Â»I don't think he was trying to insult of offend anybody with his quote from another person a long time ago when things were alot different. There was no violation of policy there, he quoted someone else.No. The site policy says no racist comments are to be posted on this site. PERIOD! It doesn't matter if it was something said by an open racist 100 years ago. That is irrelavent. No racism means no racism. If you have a problem with that policy, take it up with the site administators who established it. One of my tasks here is to help make sure this site conforms with the established policies, not to make the policies. I really hope that this is not going to become a bigger problem and that people will abide by the site rules here. I am politely and gently asking everyone to just obey the rules, which include no posting racist comments. That rule is very clear and should not even have to be mentioned. There should be a basic level of respect to all who visit/post here.

Stang2Vibe · Post by **Stang2Vibe** » Fri Apr 09, 2004 7:17 am

Quote, originally posted by MonotoneSatellite Â»The problem with the whole issue is legislated morality. Any time our government has enacted legislation based on moral principals (alcohol, abortion, gambling, porn, gun control, etc) all sides involved loose all ability to act in a logical and rational manner.Ok, then by that path of logic I have this to contend. Let's say I like to murder. I think it's fun. It makes me feel good about myself and benefits society because it helps to reduce overcrowding. Also, it benefits the economy because it brings in more money to cemetaries and funeral directors. I think it's fun to murder with many various weapons, so it economically benefits weapons manufacturers too. See how great murder is! It's even a fundamental principle of my religion as well. I'm a member of the Church of Murdermorphites. So who are YOU to legislate YOUR morality on ME and prevent me from enjoying my life and violating the free practice of my religion? How DARE you violate my rights as someone who enjoys practicing murder. If you don't like my murdering habit, then out of respect to you, I will promise to only murder in the privacy of my own home. That way you won't have to see it and it won't affect you. Hey, wanna come over for some tea sometime? (and yes I am being facetious here. I don't like or advocate murder. just in case anyone was wondering.)

cohocarl · Post by **cohocarl** » Fri Apr 09, 2004 7:30 am

Quote, originally posted by silverawd26 Â»Is it the fact that people do not want to hear the truth?OH NO, NOT THE TRUTH Then why is alcohol legal?

cohocarl · Post by **cohocarl** » Fri Apr 09, 2004 7:38 am

Quote, originally posted by silverawd26 Â»Potency.....Ahh...."DEA Statement Ã‚Â· Michigan's Director of the Office of Drug Control Policy, Robert Peterson, states that "It is estimated that alcohol abuse costs the nation $100 billion per year and over 300 lives per day, an amount that the $18 billion in state and federal excise tax revenue does not begin to cover." This link has some interesting facts from the DEA regarding alcohol, and illegal drugs:http://www.druglibrary.org/sch...7.htmDon't get me wrong. I'm not saying we should be able to go down to our local fast food place and order a McCrack, but I feel society is being hypocritical by overlooking the damage done by alcohol in our country. What is REALLY funny are the people who preach how bad marijuana is, but they drink alcohol.

rasermon · Post by **rasermon** » Fri Apr 09, 2004 8:30 am

Back in the mid to late 70's (can't remember ) I took a hit a strawberry acid and listen to Black Sabbath backwards at 78 speed.I saw God.

Stang2Vibe · Post by **Stang2Vibe** » Fri Apr 09, 2004 10:35 am

Quote, originally posted by cohocarl Â»Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying we should be able to go down to our local fast food place and order a McCrack, but I feel society is being hypocritical by overlooking the damage done by alcohol in our country. What is REALLY funny are the people who preach how bad marijuana is, but they drink alcohol. I think that there is a fundamental difference between alcohol and drug use. I occaisonally drink alcohol (more than usual lately for those of you who have been chatting with me), and I see no problem with the occaisonal use of alcohol. But yes, you are absolutely correct in asserting that alcohol is a big problem in this country as well. If some forms of alcohol are used in moderation on a fairly regular basis, it can prevent certain medical problems in most every human body. Marijuana, even if used in the same fashion, does no such thing. Yes, it has been shown to allievate certain SYMPTOMS of a few diseases, but it does not cure anything and does not prevent anything. So I'm ok with using it under a doctor's supervision strictly for medical purposes. Want to do the same with alcohol? That's fine with me. I don't think that the majority of society overlooks the evils of alcohol abuse, I think that we just don't have a solution for it yet.

scherry2 · Post by **scherry2** » Fri Apr 09, 2004 12:49 pm

Quote, originally posted by rasermon Â»Back in the mid to late 70's (can't remember ) I took a hit a strawberry acid and listen to Black Sabbath backwards at 78 speed.I saw God. LOL I don't know what to say to that other than, been there done that

kostby · Post by **kostby** » Fri Apr 09, 2004 4:25 pm

Quote, originally posted by trdvibe Â»i for one, speed. i drive usually well over the speed limit...Driving fast/speed/speeding is a 'drug', too. I've been addicted ever since I got my first ride in a really fast car (1958!), when I was 6. Mostly, I'm addicted to that pure acceleration It's one of the reasons I'm interested in the S/C for the Vibe, although even that gets boring after a while if you have to drive the same car long enough, like 'til it's paid off! I also really enjoy it when I can drive the heck out of a small decent handling car with a good power-to-weight ratio ('84 VW Rabbit 'Vert/~1900 lbs/~90hp/close-ratio 5 spd) at/near the posted limits, vs driving at 2 or 3-times the posted limit in something more powerful (Saab Turbo SPG) and risk losing my license, and endangering others who have the misfortune to share the road at that hour.

goodvibe · Post by **goodvibe** » Fri Apr 09, 2004 10:18 pm

I currently don't partake but have in the past and have tried a few flavors. Abuse is the issue with many things but is more attributable to the individual than the substance. I also had motorcycles which are gone now that I have a handicapped child (she's 21 now). I love bikes and the risks are acceptable to me individually but not for me in a family context. It's a matter caring for a loved one. I'm not sure I would want weed legalized since it may condone use but it would certainly stop the problems of smuggling and distribution abuses. Definitely decriminalized. Works fine in Amsterdam. I must say I enjoyed some of my experiences and have no regrets but if you're firing up in the morning, at work, school or daily; You've either got a problem or need to get a life. You will burn out from constant use (abuse). I also have a drink now and then and am aware of it's benefits. I am also aware that alcohol kills many people from organ damage, in auto accidents and is a known carcinogen. It also can cause digestive problems and kills brain cells at a pretty good rate. It's not a good argument as the legal drug of choice. I think the real question becomes, when does individual freedom impose undue risk on society as a whole. You can't say that alcohol doesn't. Even if you haven't had a personal alcohol related experience, you're medical and auto ins. rates clearly reflect alcohols' benefits. Even though I'm not fully in favor of marijuana legalization, I do know know that it would have a less adverse effect on deaths and the economy than alcohol. I fully respect the 'any drug is bad' argument. I have a hard time with 'I like mine but think yours is bad'. I'm also sure all of the against the law reasoners don't speed or break any other laws. I know it's not the same but if law is what governs your morality than it should be.

Fialchar · Post by **Fialchar** » Sat Apr 10, 2004 2:27 am

The reason they're illegal is because how they affect the body? Cigarettes kill one in three smokers, I beliebe there's no other drug that affects the body with such a grave consequence to such a percentage of people. It's illegal for anyone under 18, true, but it doesn't stop the adult smokers from dying everyday. It still kills them. Nobody in the history of mankind has had a pot overdose. Ever. Can anyone say the same thing for alchohol?

Stang2Vibe · Post by **Stang2Vibe** » Sat Apr 10, 2004 5:27 am

Quote, originally posted by goodvibe Â»I know it's not the same but if law is what governs your morality than it should be.I am an outspoken anti-drug person. For the record, I do not accept the law as the governor of my morality. I derive my morality from a far higher authority than any mortal originator of law. Should the law come into conflict with what my moral authority commands of me, then they can come take me away and lock me up.

redlava · Post by **redlava** » Sat Apr 10, 2004 8:50 am

I have partaken in a few drugs. Most of them do harm to the body, some of which is not reversable. But so do cigarettes, beer, and fast food. People still consume all of those things. So as far as people not knowning about the dangers of drugs and their affect on the body doesn't hold water. Drug use is everywhere, rich people do it, poor people do it, people of all races, creeds and religion do it. And people will continue to do drugs because of the society we live in now. As far as legalization goes for the most part it should go as is for now. I find the whole "I do it becasue it is illegal just to stick it to the man" line laughable. When I reached 21 I still drank as much as if not more than I did when I was 17. I think making weed legal but regulated might help as far as freeing up prison space by not throwing someone in jail for 6 months for having a quarter bag in his pocket. Weed is a gateway drug moreso if you are buying it from some dirtbag who sells everything but the kitchen sink. But your kids are going to do drugs if they want to, no matter what anybody might say to them. The best thing to do is just explain it to them like they are an adult, don't sugarcoat anything don't blow stuff out of proportion. I think home life is a huge part of what seperates a nondrug user or recreational user to a full blown addict. It starts with the parents and ends with the metal toughness and judgement of the person.

JohnC · Post by **JohnC** » Sat Apr 10, 2004 11:03 am

As usual...great common sense info from Stang2Vibe. It is too bad for alot of my freinds that they started smokin weed in high scool. I have watched it dictate most of the decisions in their lives. When I tried to talk to them about it, they would not accept the truth that little by little they were falling behind in their family, social lifes and careers. Now that they are older (45-50) they have started to realize what they have missed out on. Please don't try to fool yourselves and rationalyze why mind altering drugs are good for you and our society. Enjoy your life with a clear head. Can I get off my soapbox now?

goodvibe · Post by **goodvibe** » Sat Apr 10, 2004 12:25 pm

Stang2Vibe wrote"The way I see it is, that we have these laws for a good reason, whether we like them or agree with them or not. That is irrelavent. I think that the basis and end of the arguement comes down to the legality of it." "Should the law come into conflict with what my moral authority commands of me, then they can come take me away and lock me up." END QUOTES............................ It's hard to be rightous when you don't agree with yourself. I don't see how these 2 statements can co-exist. It's honorable that your willing to take your medicine in the 2nd quote but the first comment states that someone shouldn't even consider breaking the law whether you agree or not. And that alcohol is actually beneficial statement is really out there. I understand your position on drugs and don't feel it's any less viable than mine really. I just don't buy these arguments at all. Drugs are bad. alcohol is bad. Over eating is bad. Speeding is bad. Other things we all do are bad. We can only try to follow the golden rule and not throw too many stones. I know some very successful people with 6 digit incomes that are occasional users. I've also known burn outs in my past. Some people are just born under acheivers and others are irresponsable. Many aren't.

MonotoneSatellite · Post by **MonotoneSatellite** » Sat Apr 10, 2004 8:59 pm

Quote, originally posted by Fialchar Â»What movie did you hear this from again? Most of the drug dealers have normal jobs as their primary jobs, only the people growing/importing drugs make that kind of money/power.That movie is called my neighborhood. Deals go down with allarming frequency here. Ever tried to tell a dealer to peddle their wares elsewhere? Not exactly what I would call nice guys. I have seen how violent and destructive the drug trade is. I have also seen first hand how ineffective current policies are at stopping this behavior. All I am suggesting is that we (as a society) take the time to reevaluate our stance on these chemicals.Quote, originally posted by Stang2Vibe Â»Ok, then by that path of logic I have this to contend. Let's say I like to murder. I think it's fun. It makes me feel good about myself and benefits society because it helps to reduce overcrowding. Also, it benefits the economy because it brings in more money to cemetaries and funeral directors. I think it's fun to murder with many various weapons, so it economically benefits weapons manufacturers too. See how great murder is! It's even a fundamental principle of my religion as well. I'm a member of the Church of Murdermorphites. So who are YOU to legislate YOUR morality on ME and prevent me from enjoying my life and violating the free practice of my religion? How DARE you violate my rights as someone who enjoys practicing murder. If you don't like my murdering habit, then out of respect to you, I will promise to only murder in the privacy of my own home. That way you won't have to see it and it won't affect you. Hey, wanna come over for some tea sometime? The problem with that illogical leap is direct harm to others. IF marijuana were legal, I took a hit in my home, none but me would be harmed by my actions. On the other hand, IF I were to reduce a man into kibble and use his remains to fertilize my roses, then there is direct harm done to another. There is a drastic and obvious difference between the two. As I said earlier, all I want is to take a serious, logical and unbiased look at ALL of the issues surrounding illegal drugs. Because what we are doing now is not working.Peace

cohocarl · Post by **cohocarl** » Sun Apr 11, 2004 12:43 am

Quote, originally posted by silverawd26 Â» Not for me.But this seems to be ok?....

cohocarl · Post by **cohocarl** » Sun Apr 11, 2004 1:06 am

Quote, originally posted by silverawd26 Â»I really do not care if people smoke, drink or do drugs as long as it does not effect my life or anyone around me.That's the problem.....it does effect the rest of us.

cohocarl · Post by **cohocarl** » Sun Apr 11, 2004 5:27 am

Quote, originally posted by silverawd26 Â»May I ask how it is effecting everyone?Insurance rates, health costs, loss of worker productivity, risk of having the person coming at you on the road just down a few shots before happy hour ended.....etc.

cohocarl · Post by **cohocarl** » Sun Apr 11, 2004 11:01 am

Quote, originally posted by silverawd26 Â»I am talking about all drugs. Can not be selective here.Rob, that's what I was trying to get through. I was trying to agree with you.....sorry if I didn't word it right. From the above posts I've made in this thread, you probably think I go around preaching the evils of alcohol, but I don't. I just feel those who say how bad weed is, but consider alcohol acceptable, should get their head out of their (removed). There are many substances in our lives that can be damaging to us, but what should we do? Live in a cocoon? I think it all comes down to abusing the substances. Even if all of our vices were made illegal, the abusers will still abuse.

Vibe · Post by **Vibe** » Sun Apr 11, 2004 11:29 am

[QUOTEI get ya know... Hope ya still are on the bandwagon and not smoking...... If not, I guess I have to come down hard on you and Rasermon next time. [/QUOTE]Hey People---I really think we are getting a little to personal here. The topic is about drugs and drink and not about other peoples preferences. James (VIBE)

cohocarl · Post by **cohocarl** » Sun Apr 11, 2004 11:45 am

Quote, originally posted by Vibe Â»Hey People---I really think we are getting a little to personal here. Na, no problem on my end.

scherry2 · Post by **scherry2** » Sun Apr 11, 2004 12:02 pm

Quote, originally posted by silverawd26 Â»or a hop head murdering someone for drug money. hop heads are pot smokers. I have never heard of a pot smoker murdering anyone in my 30+ years of recreational drug use. I'm sure crackhead, cocainebrain, speed freak or one of the many colorful names that can be thought of for the heavier manufactured pharmacutical (which marijuana is not) drugs like crack,pcp,speed, ect...might fit that description, but not "hop head"please if we are going to discuss the evils and pleasantries lets be accurate.by the way did anyone see the program on T.V. about ecstasy the other day?another government involvment because the pharmacutical companies missed out? everyone have a stress free day i know I will.

cohocarl · Post by **cohocarl** » Sun Apr 11, 2004 12:25 pm

Quote, originally posted by scherry2 Â» hop heads are pot smokers. I have never heard of a pot smoker murdering anyone in my 30+ years of recreational drug use. I'm sure crackhead, cocainebrain, speed freak or one of the many colorful names that can be thought of for the heavier manufactured pharmacutical (which marijuana is not) drugs like crack,pcp,speed, ect...might fit that description, but not "hop head"please if we are going to discuss the evils and pleasantries lets be accurate.

Fialchar · Post by **Fialchar** » Sun Apr 11, 2004 5:51 pm

Just a fact I thought I'd add since ecstacy came up: here if you get busted with rolls (ecstacy) you get 2 years of PRISON for EACH pill. If a dealer gets caught with say, 200 pills, that's 400 years in prison.

drunkenmaxx · Post by **drunkenmaxx** » Mon Apr 12, 2004 4:53 am

i have heard that you can get manslaughter for selling LSD. that could be a rumor though.as far as people being killed over pot, it is highly unlikely. your typical dealer is very laid back and rarely even owns a firearm.

Psychobroker · Post by **Psychobroker** » Mon Apr 12, 2004 6:04 am

Quote Â»You had to buy it somewhere, didn't you?Not if you grow it (marijuana) yourself. Those that lump marijuana in with manufactured drugs (including alchohol and tobacco) are simply ignorant. The key is everything (well, almost) in moderation, KNOWING your limits, and respecting others.

Psychobroker · Post by **Psychobroker** » Mon Apr 12, 2004 8:45 am

Pb? As?

rasermon · Post by **rasermon** » Mon Apr 12, 2004 9:35 am

Quote, originally posted by Psychobroker Â»Pb? As?Pb - Lead http://pearl1.lanl.gov/periodic/elements/82.html As - Arsenic http://pearl1.lanl.gov/periodic/elements/33.html

scherry2 · Post by **scherry2** » Mon Apr 12, 2004 11:02 am

[QUOTE=rasermon]Pb - Lead I thought it ment peanut butter?small amounts of liquid secreted from the salivary gland swallowed over long periods of time might cause cancer

goodvibe · Post by **goodvibe** » Mon Apr 12, 2004 11:04 am

Oil and gas are cancer causing by skin contact too. You'll probably survive. We've all touched them, but not intentionally ingested As. As an aside, Lead is only a problem if ingested and can effect you in small amounts. Play with it all you want. I try not to eat/inhale any of these and as I said earlier I don't do drugs other than alcohol. I just feel there is room for discussion. Against the law or not, grass is part of our culture (a large % have tried it) and it would be best to find some common ground. The extreme doesn't prove the point as there is nothing moderate about taking poisin.

Charlievibe · Post by **Charlievibe** » Tue Apr 13, 2004 3:59 am

Quote, originally posted by Psychobroker Â»Not if you grow it (marijuana) yourself. Those that lump marijuana in with manufactured drugs (including alchohol and tobacco) are simply ignorant. I am with you on this one Psyco.... my input on this one is, if people think marijuana is manufactured, then they need to go rent a good Cheech and Chong movie, that will clear it all up for them!!!! I love those guys!!!!!

rasermon · Post by **rasermon** » Tue Apr 13, 2004 7:07 am

Quote, originally posted by Charlievibe Â»I am with you on this one Psyco.... my input on this one is, if people think marijuana is manufactured, then they need to go rent a good Cheech and Chong movie, that will clear it all up for them!!!! I love those guys!!!!! http://www.vistalites.com/downloads/cc2.mpg (MPG file - 59 seconds 10.4Mb)

Fialchar · Post by **Fialchar** » Tue Apr 13, 2004 12:34 pm

Is it really worth the wait of the 10+ MB d/l?

Stang2Vibe · Post by **Stang2Vibe** » Tue Apr 13, 2004 3:26 pm

Quote, originally posted by goodvibe Â»As an aside, Lead is only a problem if ingested and can effect you in small amounts. Play with it all you want.Wrong. Lead can be absorbed through the skin.

Merzbow · Post by **Merzbow** » Wed Apr 14, 2004 3:56 am

I don't smoke anymore and I'm proud becuase now in high school it is d*mn near impossible to find someone that doesn't do some kind of drug. I hate it. Alot of my friends are doing acid now and my best friend...well was my best friend until he smoked himself stupid...he takes ecstacy ATLEAST 3-4 times a week. I have a hard time comprehending why weed is banned but alcohol is not...When you are stoned for the most part you can still perform normal functions. I have never gotten drunk before and never will, but from what I've seen, heard and from obvious evidence, more people are killed from drunks than stoners...(removed) is the government doing allowing alcohol to be legal???The way I see it...F*CK drugs and F*CK alcohol!

MonotoneSatellite · Post by **MonotoneSatellite** » Wed Apr 14, 2004 8:59 am

Quote, originally posted by Stang2Vibe Â»Wrong. Lead can be absorbed through the skin.Especially when that lead is traveling 3000 feet per second!!

Stang2Vibe · Post by **Stang2Vibe** » Wed Apr 14, 2004 1:24 pm

Quote, originally posted by Merzbow Â»...(removed) is the government doing allowing alcohol to be legal???This is as complex an issue as the legalizing weed issue. We already tried to ban alcohol and even had a Constitutional Amendment passed to ban it. The country went so haywire over it that another Constitutional Amendment had to be made to nullify the previous amendment that banned it. But anyway, congrats on living sober. You have more fortitude than most to make and stand by that choice. I wish more kids would follow your example.