1ZZ-FE Vibe, Matrix, and Corolla HP is under rated.

[d_m_kolb]

I have heard several different posts about this in other forums. It makes sense when you think about it and it really makes sense when you look at a Matrix or a Vibe that has been dynoed. The 1ZZFE introduced in 1988, without variable cam timing.........TYPE..YEAR....BORE..STROKE..CC.....COMP..HP...PEAK HP RPM1ZZFE..L4....98-99...79.0....91.5......1794...10.0...130.....6000 The 1ZZ was updated with VVT in 2000. You can see what the VVT-i did for the engine. ..........TYPE..YEAR.....BORE..STROKE..CC.....COMP..HP...PEAK HP RPM1ZZFE...L4....00-ON....79.0....91.5.....1794...10.0...140.......6400 Toyota is using the pre 2000 specs for the Matrix, Vibe and Corolla. Even the peak HP RPM is the same. Now look at the 2000 or newer Celica GT. Those are the current 1ZZ specs with VVT which the Corolla, Matrix and Vibe also use. Below is further prove that Toyota has under rated the 1ZZ using the pre 2000 specs. The Celica GT is rated 140HP @ 6400 rpmThe torque is rated 125 @ 4200 rpm which is the same as the Vibe or Matrix. How is the same engine that's in the Celica making 10HP less in a Vibe, Matrix or Corolla. The torque and it's max ft/lbs of torque are the same. This number should have changed even if it was just the rpm at which the engined reached it's max torque it would have changed. Now look at the base run. Look at the HP they got from a bone stock 1ZZ-FE. It's 120 HP. So Toyota and Pontiac are telling us that the Toyota drive train is the most efficient drive train in the world since it only loses 7.7% to the wheels???? Come on this isn't gonna happen.If you do the math and start the engine out at 140Hp instead of the 130 they rate it at you come up with 14.3% lose to the wheels. This is a much more reasonable number.It really pretty much proofs the 1ZZ-FE makes 140HP instead of the 130HP it's been rated at. Why this was done is beyond me. Maybe it has to do with marketing some how but I don't know. I just know what the dyno and the math tells me. This engine makes 10HP more than it is rated at.Here's more proof. The 2ZZ-GE is rated at 180 and on a dyno it showed a wheel HP of 157HP. So that's a lose of 13% through the drive train. That sound right. But how is it the 2ZZ-GE drive train is losing 13.3% and the 1ZZ-FE drive train is only losing 7.7% through the 5 speed? It's not! It's losing close to 14% which is very close to what the 6 speed is losing. Again I say the 1ZZ-FE is making the 140HP the Celica GT is rated at. Another thing that the 1ZZ-FE dyno shows is that buy just adding a CAI they are at 128 WHP. That's only 2HP away from flywheel HP. Common common sense tells you the engine is under rated.Enjoy the new info. Here's a Toyota Corolla dyno Here is proof no one can argue against This is a dyno run from a stock Celica GTThe blue numbers are the stock Celica GT with the 1ZZ-FE another thing to look at is the 1ZZ-FE stock is making more torque than the stock 2ZZ-GE. This makes me thing the torque rating on the 2ZZ isn't correct either. It seems to be lower than it's rated. If the 1ZZ is rated at 125 ft lbs of torque and shows 116 ft lbs of torque to the wheels and the 2ZZ is rated at 130 and shows 115.4 ft lbs of torque to the wheels that doesn't make much since to me. How is the 1ZZ making 1 ft lbs of torque more than the 2ZZ which is rated with higher torque? I think the 1ZZ makes more ft lbs of torque than the 2ZZ and Toyota felt that if they showed the real numbers having the base engine 1ZZ beat there high performance engine 2ZZ in torque it would hurt the 2ZZ sales figures.

[Frosty]

DM wrote: Why this was done is beyond me. Maybe it has to do with marketing some how but I don't know. Theory: Toyota wanted to give the Celica Buyers something to brag about so they deflate the corolla hp rating to give the impression that the Celica is more powerful. Sport coupe buyers wouldn't want to hear that Gramma's sedan has the same hp as their ride

[NovaResource]

This is very common. It's why the LT1 and LS1 engines in the Corvette were always rated higher than the same engines in the Camaro/Firebird. This has gone on since the 60's. Chevy always said the Corvette exhaust was less restrictive than the Camaro but dyno results always showed similar rear wheel horsepower.The Corvette is the Chevy performance flagship. It's an unwritten rule that it will always be rated with higher hp than any other Chevy produced that same model year.

[d_m_kolb]

Yes I remember seeing some dynos of a camaro and Vette and they were very close to the same. I also read serveral places the Formula, TA and Camaro had restrictive intakes ad exhaust and that was why they had lower out puts.The Vette was all ways faster mainly because it weighed less than the heavier F-body vehicles.As for the Vibe enjoy your 140HP engine. Also if you look at the Matrix and Vibe dynos you'll see that the engine is still making HP up to around 6,400 to 6,500 RPM just like the Celica. So this means the red line for the Vibe/Matrix isn't at 6,000 RPM it's closer to 6,400 to 6,500. Shifting at red line in a Vibe your not taking advantage of the aditional 10 HP made 500 RPM up the power band. So someone try this. Time yourself 0 to 60 and shift at 6,000 to 6,400 then time yourself 0 to 60 shifting at 6,500 to 6,900. You'll see your time is a little better again proofing what's being said in here.Enjoy!

[Frosty]

Isn't there a rev limiter or does that only kick in at top speed?

[lordyogi]

rev limiter in the gt kicks in once the rpm's have actually gone about 500 into the redline area, im not sure about the bases but im sure it would prolly be the same.yogi

[DVader]

So what does this mean to those of use that have the 123-hp rated engine in the AWD model? Are we pushing more power to the wheels too?

[ShotInTheDark]

I seem to be able to draw power all the way up to about 7500rpm in my GT. actually you notice the supercharger really kick somewhere around 5500-5700 and pull away from there. Someone told me that there is a way to change the computer settings with a different module from TRD. Is that true?

[NovaResource]

quote:I seem to be able to draw power all the way up to about 7500rpm in my GT.The GT is able to rev to 8200-rpm. It's the base engine that stops pulling at 6400-rpm.quote:actually you notice the supercharger really kick somewhere around 5500-5700 and pull away from there.The GT doesn't have a supercharger (unless you added one). The "boost" in power you feel is from the increased lift in the cam that kicks in at that time.

[d_m_kolb]

As for the AWD Vibe I'm not sure. I would think it's also a higher output than is claimed but I haven't seen and dynos so I'm not sure. Based off of the 0 to 60 times of the auto Vibe which is around the low 9 sec. to high 8 sec. range and a AWD Vibe which I have seen around 11 to 12 seconds. This of course this doesn't make any sense since it's the same engine but the AWD drive isn't that much heavier than the auto Vibe yet is 2 to 3 seconds slower 0 to 60. So I'm just guessing on this.

[Chris]

Apparently the only difference in engines between the base and awd vibes is the exhaust routing which is more restrictive on the awd. The awd engine should put out exactly the same hp just depends on how much of that is being used to 'push' exhaust through the pipe... don't worry, at very worst you're not making LESS than the 123 advertised hp!Wow, no mods and I've already gained 10 hp Think if I wait longer I'll gain another 10?

[mu_ohio]

quote:As for the AWD Vibe I'm not sure. I would think it's also a higher output than is claimed but I haven't seen and dynos so I'm not sure. Based off of the 0 to 60 times of the auto Vibe which is around the low 9 sec. to high 8 sec. range and a AWD Vibe which I have seen around 11 to 12 seconds. This of course this doesn't make any sense since it's the same engine but the AWD drive isn't that much heavier than the auto Vibe yet is 2 to 3 seconds slower 0 to 60. So I'm just guessing on this.Does you think that the AWD tranny could be less efficient since the power is divided through a coule differentials?

[d_m_kolb]

From the info I have read on the AWD it's not all ways driving all 4 wheels. The only time the AWD actually drives the rear wheels is if it senses the front tires losing traction it will then engage the rear wheels for a ahort time until the front wheels gain traction again.To me this would mean that everything would be the same except for the short period of traction lose. The AWD drive weighs more than the base Vibe but not that much more to cause a 3 second 0 to 60 time difference.I have no dynos to look at the AWD and compare to but it's the same engine as the base Vibe. It's just run through a different trany. Toyota might have adjusted the HP lower in fear that a 140HP engine would damage the weak drive line of the AWD. I say weak because everything I have read says the AWD driveshaft to the rear of the vehicle can't take much power. If this is the case a 17 HP drop might cause a 3 second 0 to 60 drop but still that sounds high to me.

[DVader]

How weak is the AWD drivetrain? That's kinda disappointing to hear considering the horsepower/torque of the standard 1.8L engine. I've always assumed the Vibe AWD used the same drivetrain components as the RAV4 and the engine in that makes more power than the engine in the Vibe. I thought I had read somewhere the reason the AWD version made less power was because the exhaust was more restrictive due to its smaller size to make room for the AWD components. I've only crawled under the vehicle once and the exhaust didn't seem that crowded to me.

[MailGuy!]

Hey Guys,Sorry for bringing up such an old post, but this one is really intriguing to me. I am really bad at properly reading graphs. I failed math. Does this really show that the 140hp Celica GT Dynoed at the exact same HP and torque at the wheels as a base VIBE/Matrix/Corolla? Are our Vibes really underated at 130hp?If so that f---in' rules!!!!!!!!!!!!!!10 more hp and I didn't even have to Mod!

[wicked1981]

140HP thats great news.

[philndz]

Quote, originally posted by MailGuy! » Are our Vibes really underated at 130hp? You bet ya!

[wicked1981]

I found this article and they also mention the 1zz-fe engine be 140hp. Where did 130 come from who knows......

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[philndz]

it came from toyota wanting to differentiate between the corolla and the celica....and then the matrix got the same treatment so naturally the vibe had to get it too.....enjoy your extra 10!

[Mavrik]

So according to this, my base Vibe is really 140 before mods?

[joatmon]

so if the base engine is really 10HP more than advertised when stock, that means that the gains for the supercharger to get it to be 170 HP is only +30, which make it cost $100 US / HP. if the celica/matrix/vibe/corolla are all the same power with the 1zz engine, why are the mileage estimates (w/ 5 speed) 29 city/36 hwy for celica, vibe matrix, but 32/40 for corolla?

[philndz]

Quote, originally posted by joatmon »if the celica/matrix/vibe/corolla are all the same power with the 1zz engine, why are the mileage estimates (w/ 5 speed) 29 city/36 hwy for celica, vibe matrix, but 32/40 for corolla?I haven't looked at the mpg ratings but my buddy's celica GT is faster and better on gas than my base vibe b/c its so sleek....the corolla may just have some smoother lines somewhere....either on top or underneath??? There are so many factors...even down to wheel/tire size/width.....they are all in the same ballpark...and thats to be expected.

[philndz]

Quote, originally posted by silverawd26 »The Vibe was under rated basically for it would not hurt sales of other cars, it was a marketing ploy by Toyota from what Phil is saying.Toyota didn't want super-cool-kids in their Celica's to think that grandma's corolla was the same car.....so some genious came up w/ under-rating the corolla's power....simple really.