Electric Problems

[disneydj]

So I guess I'll try to put as much info in as possible to help find the solution. It all started after I jump started our company Cargo Van. Later that day I came out to the car and the battery was dead. Jumped it and I was fine for a couple more days when it happened again. Friday night, on the way to the car show with a fellow Viber, I had more problems keeping a charge in the batttery. We'd jump it and then it would die as soon as I turned the lights on. Finally got it running and I headed home... every time I hit the breaks my lights would dim... and then the worst thing possible.. while travelling on the interstate I lost all power to the car, and the engine died. Seconds laterm while changing lanes to get to the side of the road, while coasting mind you, the lights came back on. Finally made it home, and just to check again, I turned on the fog lights and the car died again.Took it to the dealer on Saturday morning, and they couldn't find anything wrong with the alternator, and the battery seemed to hold a charge. They did ask me how the Interstate Battery ended up in the Vibe, and I told them the story of my accident. Anyways, to make a long story short I headed to Sears and got a Die Hard, and haven't had any problems since, but we'll see what happens this week, Anyone have similar problems, or might know the cause?

[joatmon]

When I've had problems like that in other cars, it has been either the battery, the alternator, or an electrical connectivity thing, like corrosion on the battery terminals. I would expect an Interstate battery to hold up pretty well, the dealer said the alternator was ok, and you would have seen corrosion on the battery terminals when you put the die hard in.Hard to know what to suggest other than to pay attention for while, if the problem is still there but hidden behind a new fully charged battery, it may come back soon.

[ragingfish]

If the battery was defective, maybe it was shorting inside the casing...My neighbor had that happen to him...car kept just dying or whatnot, finally, the battery place that gave him a new one said they popped it open (for "research" purposes) and there was a defect, and it was internally shorting...

[disneydj]

We did have a significant change in weather here. Went from the mid-80s to 40s and 50s when this happened, and it was raining.

[disneydj]

The Service Department at McNamera Pontiac has attributed the problem to the DIY Ground wires that I had added to the engine. They said that when I jump started the other vehicle it had caused some damage to that Interstate Battery that caused it not to hold a charge. There reccomendation was to removed the DIY Wires, and switch batteries... or not attempt to jump start other vehicles with the DIY wires installed in the car. None of the service guys could tell me whether or not the DIY Wires even actually make a difference in the performace of the car, and figured it was some scam from a company trying to get my money. They say that if it did improve performace, Pontiac or other big name companies would be marketing this product, and/or installing it at the factory. He had a point with that one. Oh well, good luck... glad it only cost me about 20 bucks in materials... oh and 80 bucks for that new battery.

[disneydj]

Yeah I did... didn't want to mess with it anymore.

[threekrows]

Everyone feel free to correct me if I am mistaken,but does it seem like when someone at a shop doesn't know an answer,they just make something up?I've been sitting here thinking,how in the world is a better ground from the engine to the body and battery going to hurt the charging system?Someone please explain that one to me...Now an intermittent bad cell in a battery I have seen several times.Car starts fine and battery tests good,then hit a bump and the battery tests say bad cell and the car won't start,THAT sounds feasable(sp)plus connection problems from an accident,reasonable too,but I'm at a loss on the ground wires----

[joatmon]

I agree, I don't understand how the extra wires could make jumpstarting another vehicle trash your battery. Interstate batteries are supposed to be pretty tough.It's not like teh extra wires were making an electrical connection that didn't exist before, the extra ground wires are just making a small improvement over what's already there. They don't bypass some critical protection circuit. It's hard for me to intuitively see how the extra gorund wires can produce the performance improvements that people claim they do (and I believe them) so it's even harder for me to see how the token effect of the increased ground could be so dramatic as to waste a brand new battery.The only thing I could think of was if when jumpstarting the van the jumper cables initially got crossed, and then corrected. That could cause a big surge of current that may cause problems, but since disneydj didn't mention anyone doing that, then we'll give him the benefit of the doubt to have not done that. However, like I said in a different thread, if you do the ground wires, don't use red wire. Red = 12V, black= ground. red ground wires at the battery may increase the probablility of cross connecting jumper cables.I guess I can understand the Pontiac techs claiming that the ground wires were useless and may have caused the problem becuase that is an obvious difference in the electrical system from what they know about. The Pontiac techs saying that if the ground wires were a useful aftermarket mod that people wanted then Pontiac would sell them is humorous considering how few aftermarket products GM actually does offer for this vehicle.So, unless and until someone else has a similar battery problem after jumpstarting from a vibe/matrix with the ground wires, I'd say that the jury is still out on what caused disneydj's brand new battery to go flaky. If it was my car, I probably would have removed the ground wires also, because given the history of electrical issues, that would eliminate one contributing factor, one less thing to consider if additional problems come up in the future. I probably also would have gotten Interstate to check out the battery. If dropping a Die Hard in fixes the problem, then the Interstate was defective.Too bad there's no ammeter in the instrument cluster.

[JohnC]

I worked as a tow tuck driver/auto mechanic several years a noticed that ocasionally after jump starting someone that the alternator in the wrecker would not put out as muck current. everything would be ok untill alot of current draw was necessary (a/c, headlights, etc.). What we eventually found was that half of the diode bridge (changes ac to dc) located inside the alternator was burnt out, this would cause the alt. to only put out half of it's rated current. We found that if we shut the wrecker engine off before jump starting other vehicles it prevented this from happening. Has your alternator been load tested to it's max output? You may want to look into this. You can check it yourself with a voltmeter if a loadtester is not available. Volts should be about 14vdc with no electrical load, then turn on a/c with fan on high,headlights,brakelights, rearwindow defogger, etc. , volts shouldn't drop below 12vdc.hope this can be of some help.

[joatmon]

disneydj said "Took it to the dealer on Saturday morning, and they couldn't find anything wrong with the alternator" so I guess they checked it out. They should have load tested it. If they didn't and it is only capable of putting out half the rated current, then long periods of driving with lots of electrical load may drain the new battery too. What is the current rating on the stock Vibe alternator? I remember reading somewhere between 80 and 90 amps, but can't find it anymore. Has anyone looked into replacing it with a higher capacity alternator?

[disneydj]

Wish I could tell you more about this, but accident number two has put the Vibe back in the shop. Ever seen a wheel get completely knocked off? I don't reccomend it... bot those guys at Progressive must love me by now. I had the battery checked since it was in my fiance's car... and we have a verdict. It is a problem with the battery... bad cell. So problem solved, thanks for your help... and hopefully I'll see my car again soon.

[joatmon]

Glad the electrical problem is resolved, but I still can't see how the ground wires trashed the battery. Quote, originally posted by disneydj »Wish I could tell you more about this, but accident number two has put the Vibe back in the shop. Ever seen a wheel get completely knocked off? Really? How did that happen? Man, you have got to stop letting Mickey Mouse drive your car, How bad is the damage, what's the estimate on when you can drive it again? details, we need details .....and pics!

[Jahntassa]

The mechanics are pulling your leg. I have "DIY" Ground wiring in my car. I chucked the stock 8 guage wiring to the chassis and engine block, and put a new 8 guage to the engine block, and a 4 guage to the chassis..or is it the other way around..hm..As long as the ground wires that you added were the SAME SIZE (2 8 guage wires) or LARGER than the stock wires, or, if something was pinched and not connected right, (In which case the car would've had problems already..) There's no way that DIY ground wires will hurt.I added the bigger wires, btw, to account for the draw from my soundsystem. However, I really need to get a better battery to power it all..

[Flip-Side]

Quote, originally posted by disneydj » They say that if it did improve performace, Pontiac or other big name companies would be marketing this product, and/or installing it at the factory. He had a point with that one. Oh well, good luck... glad it only cost me about 20 bucks in materials... oh and 80 bucks for that new battery.Sorry to hear about your electrical issues. Intermittent electronics are one of the most aggrevating car problems. As far as stock High-Performance ground wires, why would they spend $20 on great wires, when a $2 wire and connector will do the job nearly as well saving GM a little cash. Sounds like they saw the wires you installed and just didn't want it covered under the warranty. Not to mention the audacity of squarely blaming you as the cause. Hope your troubles have been solved though.