how to talk yourself into buying the Supercharger!

[Faultline]

Alot of you are teetering on spending 3k on for the SC...so if that is you...then here are some points to help tilt the scale in favor of getting the SC..!1).do not figure $ per horsies...you will probably talk yourself out of it! did you do that when you baought the car 'lets see...$18k for 140hp" and what of those rims you bought..how much whp did you add? ...its not all about $ per hp!2.)how much $ did you save from sticker...add that to the SC fund..did you have GM saving points or any other ddiscount ? or rebate!? then add that to the SC fund , and...if you live in a non sales tax state , add 7% to the purchase price, then take that amount and add it to the SC fund...because the Vibe is well worth the sticker price + tax!!!3, Let's just say we findout that it cost 3600.00 installed! divide this into 60 car payments....this = $60.oo per payment oor 50.00 if it is only $3k.....so for less than $2.oo per day you can own a Supercharger! have you lost your mind? Sacrafise that candybar and coke...Buy the SC!4.) Take the difference of the cost of your car , and a GT...then add that to the SC fund...( yeah I know, about the brakes and rims....)BUT take the full difference of 3k and drive w/ rr drum brakes and steel rims ...but SUPERCHARGED!! then stop kicking yourself for not buying the GT!5.)..every Vibe should have: something better than the additional sound of a CAI under the hood, and an RSX in its rear view mirror..change the balance of power in the world, and buy the SC!!....or....join me for all the above reasons and get your vibe turbocharged w/ the SF kit...except then you will get the sound of a BOV between shifts and a Vibe SC in your rearview mirror.... oops , that just sort of slipped out.... I am suppose to be making friends here /...seriously...! I bought the turbo, because it make mor hp..but i did it as though there was no factory warrantied SC coming out...very few cars have this option... but you do! it is a priveldged opportunity...you will not regret it!!! buy the SC!

[goodvibe]

Everbody that thinks they're going to get one should just be creative and find a way to do it now. You'll think about wanting it everyday instead of enjoying it everyday. It's smiles or regret here. If it's 5 bills more, that shouldn't be enough of a deterant for something you really want. Faultlines right, right the check, sell something, part time gig, find a way.

[NovaResource]

Well said, Faultline. I couldn't have said it any better. Like I said in another post, the look on the face of a GT driver when he gets spanked by a base Vibe with an auto and steel wheels with wheel covers is priceless.

[goodvibe]

Buy it because it's good, not to beat a gt. Spanking us Gt owners is easy. My dads Buick can do it. GT drivetrains were never designed for dragging. With that SC you should be setting your sites a bit higher. Of coarse, if spanking a Gt helps you justify buying a SC then run with it and make it happen.

[MadBill]

Continuing Faultline's line of reasoning:6. If you're a non-smoker, you can divert the price of a pack a day since you were 14 into the SC fund.7. Don't drink? Ditto.8. Never joined a golf club?9. Etc.Hey, a few of us should be driving Ferarris by now!

[NovaResource]

quote:Buy it because it's good, not to beat a gt.I'll buy it because I want it and because I want my Vibe faster. It has nothing to do with GT's. However, the extra joy of beating them and their owners is just icing on the cake. You can whine about having a leather steering wheel and rear discs while you look at my talilights.quote:My dads Buick can do it.My Nova can do it too and beat your daddys Buick.quote:GT drivetrains were never designed for dragging.Dragging? That's what your GT will look like it's doing compared to a Vibe S/C. It called drag racing and you're wrong anyway. Any engine can be drag raced. Except for the GM DRCE (Drag Race Competition Engine) used in NHRA ProStock name me one engine "designed" for drag racing. There aren't any others.quote:With that SC you should be setting your sites a bit higher.True. Beating a GT with a Vibe S/C will be so easy it's not really much of a goal.

[goodvibe]

I hope your dreams come true, No sarcasm. I'm happy with mine.

[NovaResource]

All kidding and sarcasm aside, I seriously think the two (GT and S/C base) will be very close in ET's. I don't honestly think a S/C base will "easily" beat a GT. I think it will come down to driver skill. The two will be very closely matched.

[Larry]

quote:All kidding and sarcasm aside, I seriously think the two (GT and S/C base) will be very close in ET's. I don't honestly think a S/C base will "easily" beat a GT. I think it will come down to driver skill. The two will be very closely matched.I agree. For everyday driving though, I do think the SC will be better for passing and accelerating in the lower rpm's. Although, it will probably come down to driver skill in the 1/4 mile, the SC will take less skill to drive IMO giving it the edge. Both great cars though.

[KSNeptune]

All they've got to do to sell me a supercharger is have one to sell.My vibe will be a year old in a month or so, and it pi$$es me off that there still is no SC. My main reason for getting a base vibe was the promise of the "any day now" supercharger that would create an automatic GT out of a base.Then again, I knew going in that car salesmen were professional liars.KSNeptune

[NY Pete]

no doubt. It's been pushed back so many times it better be worth the wait!!! Pete

[Faultline]

[QUOTE]All they've got to do to sell me a supercharger is have one to sell.My vibe will be a year old in a month or so, and it pi$$es me off that there still is no SC. My main reason for getting a base vibe was the promise of the "any day now" supercharger that would create an automatic GT out of a base..KSNeptune [/QUOTEI forgot to mention that another reason I turboed my vibe is that I was very cynical about the release date of the SC...I remember that It seemed like it was put off when they said "It's now going to be the 1st quarter of next year" but Mostly I became drunk w/ the notion of turboing my vibe...and decided to be a doer ,more than a talker...and all the reasons of this thread...helped me talk myself into a turbo!....I have no real satisfation though of the constant delay of the realease of the SC kit..like ..."boy ..See...! I did the right thing by not waiting.! " ' cause right now,... I feel I did the right thing 'cause I like driving my car so much!..and ps.....I looked at an eaton roots style sc ..at Stafford Fab's... and if you get the chance, befor it is installed....turn the pulley and watch the lobes turn! ..Its enough to make any buyers remorse go away!

[Faultline]

[QUOTE]All kidding and sarcasm aside, I seriously think the two (GT and S/C base) will be very close in ET's. I don't honestly think a S/C base will "easily" beat a GT. I think it will come down to driver skill. The two will be very closely matched.[/QUOTEI think that in the 1/4, because of the torque, the SC will winn every time! , but, in high speed racing, or ones that begin at a good clip..even if they both are rated at an even 180hp....becuse of those wonderful cam profiles and big ports in the 2zz head...hmm.....

[QUIKAG]

Any Vibe, be it a GT or an S/C base is going to be SLOW. Accept the facts.I personally like rowing a 6-speed with my leather wrapped shifter, swinging my leather wrapped steering wheel to turn my TRD spring equipped Vibe riding on factory 17 inch wheels on 215 Dunlop 9000 rubber. Oh, did I forget to mention the SHRIEKING AEM CAI equipped 2ZZ engine as it wraps past 6000rpm to the atmospheric 8350rpm fuel cutoff, literally screaming at the top of it's lungs. The sound is very, very intoxicating and much sweeter than the whine of a roots Eaton blower (which I've heard on several different cars inside and outside of the cars).You can have your S/C base, thanks.

[NovaResource]

quote:Any Vibe, be it a GT or an S/C base is going to be SLOW. Accept the facts.Incorrect. No, it's not a Pro-Stock car but they're far from slow.quote:I personally like rowing a 6-speed with my leather wrapped shifter, swinging my leather wrapped steering wheel to turn my TRD spring equipped Vibe riding on factory 17 inch wheels on 215 Dunlop 9000 rubber. Oh, did I forget to mention the SHRIEKING AEM CAI equipped 2ZZ engine as it wraps past 6000rpm to the atmospheric 8350rpm fuel cutoff, literally screaming at the top of it's lungs. The sound is very, very intoxicating and much sweeter than the whine of a roots Eaton blower (which I've heard on several different cars inside and outside of the cars).You can have your S/C base, thanks.Spoken like a man who crossed the finishline second.

[joatmon]

quote:Lets play nice now.. I'd say quickag's comment was an invitation, Scott was pretty reserved in response. Either would beat me in a race.

[QUIKAG]

quote:Incorrect. No, it's not a Pro-Stock car but they're far from slow.Depends on what your definition of slow. Both you and I know full well that a 15 second 1/4 mile time is slow. Heck, even a multitude of affordable family sedans can run 14 second 1/4 mile times. Accord V6, Nissan Maxima, Grand Prix GTP, Buick Regal GS, not to mention the less affordable BMW, Audi, and Mercedes sedans.quote:Spoken like a man who crossed the finishline second.Well, at least I'm enjoying the ride as it was originally designed. For some reason, I don't think the 1ZZ was originally designed with forced induction in mind. If you disagree, then explain why it took so long for the S/C to come out if it was already R&D'd? Heck, it's not even officially out yet...Okay, I'll give it up that the S/C base 5-speed should take a Vibe GT at the 1/4 mile strip, but I would happily take on ANY stock base Vibe with S/C on a roadcourse where heat soak will KILL any significant power advantage after a few laps. My fun with my Corvette is in roadracing. Drag racing and street racing is fun occasionally, but it doesn't give near the rush of a roadcourse. On anything, but the tightest of corners, the 2ZZ is going to rule on a nice, open roadcourse over a 30 minute session.

[NovaResource]

quote:Depends on what your definition of slow. Both you and I know full well that a 15 second 1/4 mile time is slow. Heck, even a multitude of affordable family sedans can run 14 second 1/4 mile times. Accord V6, Nissan Maxima, Grand Prix GTP, Buick Regal GS, not to mention the less affordable BMW, Audi, and Mercedes sedans.True, but all those cars have 6-cylinder engines. Let's see the list of cars that are slower than the Vibe. It's a much larger list.quote:For some reason, I don't think the 1ZZ was originally designed with forced induction in mind.Name me one automobile engine that was designed for a supercharger.quote:Okay, I'll give it up that the S/C base 5-speed should take a Vibe GT at the 1/4 mile strip, but I would happily take on ANY stock base Vibe with S/C on a roadcourse where heat soak will KILL any significant power advantage after a few laps.I doubt that claim but that remains to be seen. Torque is what accelerates a car out of a corner and the S/C has more torque, period. If anything will slow lap times on a base it would be the rear drums, not the engine heat.To use someone elses words: "For some reason, I don't think the Vibe was originally designed with road racing in mind."

[MadBill]

Hmmm.. I can see we're going to have to resolve this at the meet the Ontario region is planning at the Mosport motorsports complex, which boasts an 1/8 mile drag strip, a 1/2 mile oval and several road courses of various lengths and degrees of challenge. Now if we can only come up with an SC installation before the snow flies...

[QUIKAG]

The 2003 Ford Cobra motor was specifically designed for the supercharger. Actually, I guess I said those words about the Vibe not being designed for the roadcourse. You're a brutal debater. Either way, heat soak is definitely a problem for supercharged cars that are run hard on a roadcourse. I would take the high-revving thermally efficient 2ZZ over a S/C anyday or any extended roadcourse activity.Another thing, you guys neglect to mention is that the 2ZZ has an oil capacity of 5 quarts which is extremely impressive for a 1.8L motor. The 1ZZ has a 4 quart capacity. Another reason, the 2ZZ would be superior in extreme 'racing' conditions.

[NovaResource]

quote:The 2003 Ford Cobra motor was specifically designed for the supercharger.Not so. That version was modified (iron block instead of aluminum) to work with the supercharger but it wasn't originally designed for a supercharger. Remember, that engine has it’s roots back in the Lincoln Mark VIII.quote:Either way, heat soak is definitely a problem for supercharged cars that are run hard on a roadcourse. I would take the high-revving thermally efficient 2ZZ over a S/C anyday or any extended roadcourse activity.It's still unclear that the supercharger would cause more heat in the engine than the cooling system could handle. Yes, it does create more heat but that doesn't mean the system couldn't handle it. We'll have to see.quote:Another thing, you guys neglect to mention is that the 2ZZ has an oil capacity of 5 quarts which is extremely impressive for a 1.8L motor. The 1ZZ has a 4 quart capacity. Another reason, the 2ZZ would be superior in extreme 'racing' conditions.2 words: synthetic oil2 more words: oil coolerAlso remember, the higher RPM of the 2ZZ will reduce the oil life compared to the lower RPM of the 1ZZ. On top of that, the Lift portion of the Z22 is controlled by the oil so that will also reduce the life of the oil.

[QUIKAG]

Well, it was seriously modified to handle the forced induction. As you said iron block, but also forged internals, reduced compression and so on.. I would say that was near a complete re-work.What have they done to strengthen the internals on a 1ZZ? Oh, nothing. So, you're limited to 5-7lbs of boost.Heat soak will be an issue to anyone who is crazy enough to run their Vibe on a roadcourse unless it's very cold weather.About the oil capacity, I have Mobil 1 in my Vibe GT, an oil cooler is nice, but unless it's professionally installed, it can create more problems than it helps due to the higher possibility of blowing the aftermarket oil lines and spewing oil all over the motor. Either way, it doesn't help absolute capacity. Anything you can do to a base Vibe in the 'oil' department can be done with the GT, plus a quart.Hey, Nova, while you're putting an S/C, oil cooler, etc. on your Vibe, why don't you go ahead and gut the interior and put in some racing seats, take out the A/C, radio, power accessories.

[NovaResource]

quote:Well, it was seriously modified to handle the forced induction. As you said iron block, but also forged internals, reduced compression and so on.. I would say that was near a complete re-work.We could debate that all day so I'll concede on the Cobra engine.quote:What have they done to strengthen the internals on a 1ZZ? Oh, nothing. So, you're limited to 5-7lbs of boost.Yes, 7.5lbs of boost. This is the reason for the S/C delay. Toyota and GM are making sure the engine will last. They aren't going to put something out there and warrantee it for 3 years if it's going to blow-up. With 7.5lbs of boost, it will last as long as a 2ZZ. Ooops, I forgot about this:http://forums.genvibe.com/zerothread?id=1993quote:Heat soak will be an issue to anyone who is crazy enough to run their Vibe on a roadcourse unless it's very cold weather.Again, that’s unknown at this time. GM is putting this S/C engine out there on cars that could be driven in very hot climates with the A/C on. If it can last GM's hot climate test, it could probably last some racing conditions. However, that remains to be seen.quote:Anything you can do to a base Vibe in the 'oil' department can be done with the GT, plus a quart.True, but like I added above, the oil in the 1ZZ doesn't have to operate the lift or deal with 8000+ rpm.quote:Hey, Nova, while you're putting an S/C, oil cooler, etc. on your Vibe, why don't you go ahead and gut the interior and put in some racing seats, take out the A/C, radio, power accessories.Not to my daily driver. Plus, I'm not a big road race guy. You would kick my (removed) even if I had all that stuff.

[QUIKAG]

That's funny about the lift bolts. I'll take my chances on my 2003 2ZZ motor that the upgraded bolts are in place. Plus, my running synthetic and not constantly hitting the high rpm cam should make my motor fine. Plus, I won't have this car forever, so it's a non-issue for me.Well, I think we've come to a certain sort of agreement AGAIN. It's not much fun 'arguing' with you Scott, as only time will tell which one of us is 'more' correct.

[NovaResource]

quote:my running synthetic and not constantly hitting the high rpm cam should make my motor fine.I'm sorry, I thought were were talking about race-conditions. You wouldn't be trying to keep the engine in the Lift range during the road race?quote:It's not much fun 'arguing' with you Scott,Debating, not arguing. This is a family-friendly board. quote:as only time will tell which one of us is 'more' correct.Very true. That is, IF the supercharger is ever released to the general public.

[QUIKAG]

My 'race conditions' scenario was only hypothetical, to become actual only if any base S/C people want me to bring out the VGT and show them the differences on a road course. 'Arguing' was in quotations for a reason. Debating is a better term though. I do hope the S/C comes out because it will help ignite more interest in the Vibe/Matrix as a whole which will only help all of us in the end be it for modifications or selling the car down the road.Let it be known, that if I bought a base Vibe, I would be waiting to install an S/C and vehemently defending the base S/C Vibe, so it just so happens I fell on the the Vibe GT side of the fence. We're all the same family though!

[Triton]

I do have to agree that if I had a base, I would definately be in line for a supercharger. And I think Scott is right. The E/T's would be really close in the 1/4 mile, but 0 to 60 the supercharger definitely will beat the GT. But all of us know that the driver can make all the difference. I would definitley love to race one. When I raced the S/C automatic on the highway at the Michigan Rally, I was easily able to pull up on it and pass it. But there was a weight difference. There were four people in the S/C Vibe compared to the two in my GT. We were going at a pretty good pace though.And we are all in the same family. I'm glad we could all just get along in this post!

[NovaResource]

Yeah, I think a 5-speed base s/c would have a similar ET with the GT having a slightly higher trap speed.

[AKLGT]

personally, i wouldn't care who won or lost. i'd just want to test drive that s/c base! with that torque, i'm sure it's a helluva ride!

[Faultline]

quote:personally, i wouldn't care who won or lost. i'd just want to test drive that s/c base! with that torque, i'm sure it's a helluva ride! Indeed!...torque = fun! ....f/I = torque multiplier ="helluva ride!"

[vibecrxsi240sx]

went by the dealer again today to return my 'How did we do at the point of sale?' questionaire. They gave me a free tank of gas for filling it out with A+ answers. I mentioned to the salesman my interest in a SC and he said they haven't installed one yet. I live in Houston, Tx. USA which is a VERY large city. It's hard to believe that one has not been put on one of their cars yet. The wife and I bought the vibe on Halloween 10/31/03 and it is a base/auto. Just today crested 2k miles and I think we're ready for some haul-(removed). I'm just a little concerned that I'll be their test guineapig. I seriously want to supercharge. Any comments or suggestions?

[Faultline]

Quote, originally posted by vibecrxsi240sx » went by the dealer again today to return my 'How did we do at the point of sale?' questionaire. They gave me a free tank of gas for filling it out with A+ answers. I mentioned to the salesman my interest in a SC and he said they haven't installed one yet. I live in Houston, Tx. USA which is a VERY large city. It's hard to believe that one has not been put on one of their cars yet. The wife and I bought the vibe on Halloween 10/31/03 and it is a base/auto. Just today crested 2k miles and I think we're ready for some haul-(removed). I'm just a little concerned that I'll be their test guineapig. I seriously want to supercharge. Any comments or suggestions?I believe that Larry w/ an auto Matrix posted a review awhile back...email or pm him...he probably would be a great person to communicate with ...I would not worry too much about the install, it is suppose to be installer friendly , all the tuning-the hard stuff- has already been done!

[satur9]

went to the dealer today seems i need a new catalytic converter(1400 dollars thank you warranty) anyway i ask about the supercharger. they havent even seen one yet and they said the price would be around 4000 grand. i tell him how much trd one cost and he says "realy... you should go buy thiers instead" i think he had his head where the sun dont shine.this f.i. stuff is getting old.i wish i hadnt hacked up the interior id sell it and get a rx8 i stopped buy the mazda dealers rx8s are awesome the mazda 3s arent that bad as well. the vibe sitting next to an mazda 3 need like a four inch drop to come close to its height . vibes are really tall. actualy i love my vibe to much to trade but id still like an rx8 too.and still no word on the five speed supercharger release and it only comes on 04 automatics period.

[Faultline]

Quote, originally posted by satur9 »went to the dealer today seems i need a new catalytic converter(1400 dollars thank you warranty) anyway i ask about the supercharger. they havent even seen one yet and they said the price would be around 4000 grand. i tell him how much trd one cost and he says "realy... you should go buy thiers instead" i think he had his head where the sun dont shine.this f.i. stuff is getting old.i wish i hadnt hacked up the interior id sell it and get a rx8 i stopped buy the mazda dealers rx8s are awesome the mazda 3s arent that bad as well. the vibe sitting next to an mazda 3 need like a four inch drop to come close to its height . vibes are really tall. actualy i love my vibe to much to trade but id still like an rx8 too.and still no word on the five speed supercharger release and it only comes on 04 automatics period.I still think that if 5 guys got together, you could group buy my kit for $2900.oo...and you could get someone to insall it. for about 8hrs of labor..so what is that 5 or 600.00, and maybe 300 if you shop a little....4k installed on the sc is too high for the power gains...I really wonder if our ecu's are diff than the matrix...nobody has verifed it yet...all our engine sensors say toyota on them...I currently have an 03 corrolla mas on my car because I fried mine trying to clean my old one ..here is some enticement

Attached files

[Larry]

Quote, originally posted by Faultline »I believe that Larry w/ an auto Matrix posted a review awhile back...email or pm him...he probably would be a great person to communicate with ...I would not worry too much about the install, it is suppose to be installer friendly , all the tuning-the hard stuff- has already been done!Hello Faultine. Here's some good info. on the TRD SC. The SC does add good power in the low and mid power range stock. To get the full potetnial out of it other mods are necessary but safe. A header-back exhuast really makes a significant difference and is very easy for any muffler shop to switch back to stock. Next, Toyota set the air/fuel ratio to be very rich. This was doen to prevent the first cat from buring out but with an aftermarket exhasut, that's not a concern. I added a air/fuel contorller and plan replacing it with the Unichip very soon. The Unichip is plug and play and very easy to switch back to stock. Finally, I'll be adding water/alcohol injection. I've had it for awhile but it hasn't been working and will have a different type of system installed soon. Here is a dyno of a 2003 XR manual with the mods I just listed with the air/fuel contorller, not the Unichip. The lower numbers are with the SC only and all numbers are at the wheel. I'm posting the manual numbers instead of my auto numbers because it's easier to see the low-end numbers with a manual.

[Faultline]

Thanks Larry, this is just awsome that you posted this stuff Yeah, the torque curve is really strong at the low and mid revs...I could not figure why the kit was so rich since they took so long to finish tuning and testing it...you might be right about the cat...anyway, its good to see you paving the way for more power with the kit ...what was going wrong with the water injection?...and when does it go in with the sc? does it go in befor and mist thru the lobes? or after? and are you going to up the boost withe the water injection?

[Larry]

Quote, originally posted by Faultline »Thanks Larry, this is just awsome that you posted this stuff Yeah, the torque curve is really strong at the low and mid revs...I could not figure why the kit was so rich since they took so long to finish tuning and testing it...you might be right about the cat...anyway, its good to see you paving the way for more power with the kit ...what was going wrong with the water injection?...and when does it go in with the sc? does it go in befor and mist thru the lobes? or after? and are you going to up the boost withe the water injection?Thanks Faultline. Rick installed it. It keeps on blowing the fuse. I'm sure he'll be able to fix it as soon as I can get it down to him. His Matrix is for sale in case you missed that one. Very good deal IMO. My new system will pulse with the fuel injector. A little mist at low boost and more mist at high boost. It's injected before the SC right after the air-filter. I don't plan on upping the boost. I'm happy with the power the way it is and don't want to risk damage to the engine or even more likely, my auto tranny. With the Unichip and water/alcohol injection I'm guessing I'll be around 170 peak whp. I'm at 159 now.

[Celtic_Curse]

I wonder that when GM finally releases their S/C and trd is there with theirs that some aftermarket folks won't clone it and make bigger Superchargers for us to use at cheaper prices...obviously with all the interest from all of us someone makes S/C for less than GM and they stand to make a killing if it makes more horsepower don't you all think?

[AKLGT]

well, i know there are already a/m cos out there working on turbos and such... for about the same price it appears. but only time will tell. as the new corolla xrs for 05 comes out i figure there will be more folks wanting to tune the 2zz engines as well!

[KSNeptune]

I've almost convinced myself I don't need a supercharger. If you just push the Vibe's pedal to the floor and keep it there, a significant thrill you'll feel in the back of the seat as the little engine gets into high RPMs and stays there. It won't beat my wife's 4 cylinder Altima, but that's only because she knows the "pedal to the floor" trick too. ;-)KSNeptune