09 Vibe GT starting issues and stalling

[09ekoh]

Saturday: I got out to my car, try to start car. Car just cranks and wont turn over. Wait a while, Still nothing. Give it some gas. Still nothing. Give it some gas again, now starts w ith a white cloud of smoke. I wrote this off as a fluke as the key slipped from my fingers when trying to start the first time so i thought it may have flooded a bit.

Come this morning. Car starts fine. I forget my phone inside, so i run in and grab it, start car again...well try to at least...nothing ...electronics just flicker.
Give it a few. Still nothing. Give it a few again starts fine.... hopefully another fluke.

I drive to work - hang out in parking lot in idle. Heater is on (accidentally left AC button clicked on too) car shuts off. (removed). Start car back up just fine. Does it agian a few mins later. (removed).. Start car back up just fine. Car tries to do it again but catches itself and stays on. I notice my electronics are flickering. I realize the AC button is on with the heater on so i turn the AC button off. Can't get it to happen again.

Any idea (removed) I'm dealing with here? Sorry for grammar - typing on an iphone!!

Thanks in advance

[trb]

First thing I'm thinking of would be fuel pump, but with the electrical issues, it might just be the battery. How old is it? One thing we've found out on the newer cars; if the battery is going out, it can cause all kinds of funny things to happen to the computer and other electronic items. I'm assuming there is no "check engine" light staying on?

[lannvouivre]

Check the battery health, and also make sure the battery terminals are clean and snug (not super-tight, just tight enough you can't move them around on the posts). Also check your alternator health.

[09ekoh]

Thanks for the replies!

I will definitely check the battery. I was driving the car yesterday and didn't have my tunes turned up loud and realized the car sounded a tad bit louder than usual. Came home and noticed that the intake top cover was loose and was not making a seal. I don't know how long it's been that way but I don't think too long. I started to think. The car runs off power steering obviously which draws more from the engine when in use --thus sucking in more air. I hear these cars have very sensitive air sensors too. I put it back on tight and I for the life of me cannot get the car to replicate the issue I was having before. The car even feels like it's running smoother than it has been lately.

Could I have been sucking too much air causing the air sensor to freak out and stalling the car, explaining the stalling issue?

I still feel like it's something electrical but then again after re attaching the intake lid it has stopped doing it.

I need to drive silent more often to listen to my car!

It really doesn't explain the starting issues unless the car freaks out when it detects a bad A/F ratio when attempting to crank.

[vibrologist]

Yes, you probably found and fixed the issue.

This is how I understand it: The engine aspirates air and the amount of air depends on the rpm and throttle position. Let's neglect a few other influences. This air travels from the intake snorkel near the front of the car, through the air cleaner, the MAF sensor, the intake manifold into the cylinder that is open. The MAF sensor is near the air cleaner, so any air that enters past it will not be measured and it will actually reduce the airflow through the MAF sensor. The computer thinks there is little air and thus injects little fuel. Sometimes too little to get it ignited. You had no-start condition because of fuel starvation. Sometimes the lid was tight enough to get it going.
I might add: when the engine is cold the computer does not use the data from the sensors but but data from the program. Still, the vacuum leak caused the lean condition that kept it from starting.

All that has nothing to do with the power steering.

When you tightened the intake manifold you fixed the airflow through the MAF sensor. The PCM gets the proper data and figures the proper amount of fuel.
Or, when the engine is cold: the airflow is back in its range so the computer program figures the proper amount of fuel.

It really doesn't explain the starting issues unless the car freaks out when it detects a bad A/F ratio when attempting to crank.

At this point the computer is not in the detection business. It uses the data to calculate the amount of fuel to inject. Once the engine is warmed up then the computer is using data from the Heated O2 sensors to detect irregularities.

If you had taken this car to a less than ethical mechanic he could have told you you need: 4 spark plugs, ignition coils, MAF sensor, and PCM for a fantastic total of only $2000.00............Pad yourself on the left shoulder

[09ekoh]

I wish I could pat myself on the back but it looks like I spoke too soon. It was fine for a day now it's back to square one doing the same thing. Actually in a drive through and the car just about died but caught itself. Still stuttering the electronics hard on steering wheel turns

I really thought I had something fixed. I'm a former MeCp advanced installer for 5 years so I have a basic understanding of ignition systems but when it comes to engine electrical stuff I'm over my head

I had some starting issues about 6 months ago which turned out to be a fuse. I had the battery health checked at autozone and it tested good.

Car just stalked while driving ! ( wife is driving I'm not)

I really hope it's not a pcm issue.

[vibrologist]

I gained most of my experience with a Mazda Protege. Some of that can be transferred to just about any car but not all. Since my Vibe hasn't made me any trouble yet I am not up to snug with its intricacies.

You said you had some electrical trouble and it was a fuse. That makes me suspicious. A fuse is a sacrificial part that blows if something else is not working right. If you only replaced the fuse then there is still a bug in that circuit.

I agree that a malfunctioning charging system (battery, alternator and voltage regulator) can throw the ECM/PCM for a loop. Some cars have the voltage regulator built into the alternator, others have it regulated by the ECM/PCM. I don't know how your model is set up. Definitely have the battery and charging system checked again.

Another thing you can do is disconnecting every accessible harness, cleaning and inspecting it for corrosion or anything that could affect the current. Also make sure that all ground connections are clean of corrosion.

Why did the vacuum leak develop at the intake manifold?

Also i am not quite sure what you mean with

Still stuttering the electronics hard on steering wheel turns

A more detailed description would help. What exactly is happening when you steer?

[tpollauf]

Another thing you can do is disconnecting every accessible harness, cleaning and inspecting it for corrosion or anything that could affect the current. Also make sure that all ground connections are clean of corrosion.

To the original poster. Better identify yourself for us if you don't mind. Update location, give us a background to your Vibe. Are you the original owner? Mileage and where those miles came from? In a corrosive environment? and the biggest question, was this a FLOOD vehicle at some point? I agree with Vibro man but we need more input to better help you out.

With a pair of 2009's and living on the Ohio/Michigan line, we've had absolutely no signs of what you're describing. Help us out so that we can help you. Thanks

[09ekoh]

Sorry - Here is some background!

09 Vibe with 48,000 miles on it. 2nd Owner. Previous owner was a lady up in NJ who put 44,000 miles on it. Have all service records that car fax provides. No floods noted on carfax. No major repairs either.

I now live in Kansas. Ungoldy hot summers 110 some days and the AC has trouble keeping up. Crazy cold summers (for the midwest) getting down to 0 occasionally. Drive it to work which is about a 5 mile commute monday through thursday. No wrecks ever.

I just took the car to autozone and had the battery and alternator tested, Voltage regulator came back bad. It sounds like that could be the issue? What do you think before I rip the alternator out.

Also, any idea where the belt tensioner is on these cars? they aren't the same as the 2008 and lower models

[vibrologist]

Thanks.

The voltage regulator could very well be the culprit. If it is bad it will cause voltage drops and spikes all over the landscape. The computer needs "clean" voltage to work correctly together with the sensors.

Honestly, I shy away from Autozone. I have heard their remanufactured parts are substandard. I used O'Reilly's re-manufactured alternator on my former Windstar and it held up for several years.

If the battery is nearing the end of the warranty I would replace it together with the alternator. It has been dealing with unusual voltage spikes and drops.

[09ekoh]

So this will throw you back and forth.

I almost purchased the alternator for Autozone. I didn't. I went to a local shop to see what they would charge to replace the alternator so I'd have a warranty on the labor and part. They said , lets test your system. They did a full battery of electrical tests on it and said .

1. Your alternator is testing fine
2. Take what autozone says with their part testers with a grain of salt. They sell parts. They want you to buy a part, so if their machine says your part is bad - they want you to buy it.
3. Your terminals on the battery are dirty as ever, lets clean them up and see what that does.

So they cleaned the terminals up , and I am riding good so far (though this issue is on and off, lets hope that's all it was). They are an honest family owned shop with full 5 star reviews on facebook and google.

I go back to autozone to get a third opinion, and a different autozone at that in case their tester tool is jacked. Still says voltage regulator is no good. The store manager says. If our machine says it's bad just replace it. It was almost like a sales pitch. I want to do the common sense thing and trust the mechanic shop since they know what they are doing vs. just a part salesman. Also considering the shop could've easily just put a alternator in and said have a good day regardless. They took care of me without breaking the bank right off the back.

So here's to hoping I update you soon with no issues. If not ...what do you think?

[vibrologist]

Well done!

Look what lannvouivre said:

Post by lannvouivre » Mon Nov 03, 2014 12:37 pm
Check the battery health, and also make sure the battery terminals are clean and snug (not super-tight, just tight enough you can't move them around on the posts). Also check your alternator health.

I think you found an excelent shop in your town: independent, family owned, highly regarded.

I am lucky to have found a similar shop in our town. That is really good for the nerves!