Is it my starter?

[PimpinMatrix]

Hello fellow enthusiasts,

My Matrix will be 10 years old this year and I've started to have some issues with the car.
I'm not sure if its my starter that's causing the problem or something else. The car is garaged year round.
I notice that I have this issue more during the cold winters when the vehicle is left outside in the cold. I attempt to turn the key and nothing happens. Sometimes I don't even hear a clicking sound. I leave the keys in the 'Accessories' or 'On' position for a few seconds and then try to turn it over again then... it slowly will turn over.

I've captured a video of the entire thing.
If anyone has come across this issue before please let me know where I should start looking.

Details of the video:

- 1st 10 seconds into the video I attempt to start the car but get silence, no clicking, no engine turning over.
- 11-21 seconds into the video you can start to hear a clicking sound. Every click you hear is me trying to turn the car over.
- 22 seconds, single click sound now becomes a 'gun firing turret' massive clicking still no engine start.
- 30 seconds, 1st attept that the engine is trying to turn over.
- 34 seconds, It's ALIVE!!! engine is running and I'm on my way.

Note: The vehicle was not attached to any booster cables or aid.

Video Click HERE

[dgekiere]

sounds more like a battery issue to me, or a bad connection at the battery. i have seen a lot of corroted terminals on the vibe batteries and they have the same issues. i would try taking off the battery terminals and clean them and reinstall them first to see what happens.

good luck

[SnowFish]

I agree with battery and terminals first. If your battery is 3-4+ years old it's time for a new one anyway.

Our local Auto Value will test the old battery before selling you a new one. Pretty sure almost any parts store could do this for you.

I'm not ruling out the starter. But, for the most part, if it's the starter, nothing short of beating it with a hammer with make it kick again. Maybe. Most of the time nothing remains nothing.

Also, if it spins good when jumped, your battery is kaput.

[PimpinMatrix]

Thanks dgekiere,

I'll do that 1st. I do have a few a large 'accessories' attached to the battery:
- Projectors
- Hella Supertone Horns
- LED DRL by: Philips
- Stereo System

The battery is about 4 years old. I replaced it after my Yellow Top battery only lasted 4 years!
So lets try your idea and see what happens.

Thank you.

[PimpinMatrix]

Hey SnowFish,

Interesting observation that it could be my battery.
I haven't taken it in to get it tested but I have attached it to a battery charger.
When I plug the charger in the LED reading is telling me that the battery is 50% charged.
I come back next morning (getting ready to leave for work) the LED indicator on the charger is telling me that
the battery IS fully charged. I attempt to start the car and I still have the same issue (not to the extent as shown on the video)
but it's still having difficulty turning over! So you would think by that theory it would NOT be the battery.

The mystery continues...

[joatmon]

it would still be a good idea to take off the cables from the battery and check for corrosion, and clean both the cable ends and the battery terminals. It may not solve the problem, but it is something easy to rule out to assist further troubleshooting.

[SnowFish]

......telling me that
the battery IS fully charged. I attempt to start....but it's still having difficulty turning over! So you would think by that theory it would NOT be the battery....

I agree. However I have seen batteries fully charged, putting out 12.5 - 13 volts, but they just don't have the amps to run the big stuff. (starter)

The battery can be tested on the car. Would be nice to eliminate that variable.

[PimpinMatrix]

SnowFish,

I'll use my voltage meter today and see what it reads when I get home!
The drive is short (10 minutes to drive home) I'm also wondering if the alternator doesn't have enough time to
charge the battery? Another thought!

Cheers

[SnowFish]

In my opinion, the fact that you're still driving it tells me your alternator is working. I live close to work too. Like 3 miles. Should actually be riding my bicycle!

Mine has never (I know, never say never) had problems on the short commutes. However I also have never driven just back and forth to work for a whole week. There's always a couple 20-30 milers in the mix.

Your volt meter will measure the batteries volts. Not it's ability to produce the correct amount of amps. That's where the auto parts store "battery life" test comes into play. I've had home tested batteries show good. 12.5 +/- volts. But they only had <20% battery life left. No amps.

[PimpinMatrix]

Yeah... I should be riding my bike too!
OH I SEE, "the ability to produce the correct amount of amp" Sorry I didn't read that part.
Okay I'll take it to the shop to tell me if the battery is good!

Cheers

[jkm311]

If your battery is 3-4+ years old it's time for a new one anyway.

Seriously? I thought batteries were good for twice that long. My original Vibe's battery is almost 7 years old, and my wife's original battery in her Malibu Maxx is 8 years old.
I bought us both jumper cables last year, just in case, but even our oil change place said both batteries tested just fine. I have batteries on my list, but I was surprised to see you say 3-4 years. Does my household have two super batteries or something?!

[PimpinMatrix]

km311,

Tell me about it! I was pissed to hear that my Yellow Top Battery only lasted 4 years. That battery wasn't cheap.
I was hoping to get at least 7 years from it after my original battery died! So I'm up to 3 batteries since ownership (2003 - Matrix)
Now, I'm not sure if my 3,000 WATT Stereo system could be the issue though! Mind you I don't really crank it up any more, I don't have capacitors on the stereo or a battery spare! And my alternator is stock. But nevertheless, I'm not impressed with my battery life!

Cheers

[SnowFish]

So what's the verdict?

[PimpinMatrix]

Hey Snowfish,

Not sure yet. I need to get to a PartSource to check my battery. It will be during the weekend at the earliest.
Thanks for the followup.

Cheers

[PimpinMatrix]

Alright, the results are in!

Battery Test Results
Voltage: 12.38
Measured CCA: 339
Rated CCA: 570
Temperature Tested: 37c or 98.6f


Starter Test Results
Voltage: 8.89v

Recommendations from the tech.
Clean the contacts (looks like they need some TLC) However, I've have seen worse and my battery doesn't have any acid on the contacts its just dirty. So I'll do that 1st. Clean it up with some nice baking soda & water mixture. grease it up with some vaseline or silicone grease and then report back.

Cheers

[trb]

4 years in Houston is a battery that has lasted beyond it's usual life! I'm lucky to get 3+ years from most of ours. I'm just glad the ones I buy have a 36-48 month free replacement period, so I usually get new batteries for just taxes and disposal/ environmental fees. I've gone through probably a dozen bateries in my Mustang over the past 25 years, but only paid full price on like 4 of them.

Good luck on it.

[PimpinMatrix]

Wow Thomas,

That's a lot of batteries...
Your mustang thinks your batteries are energy drinks!

[SnowFish]

Clean it up with some nice baking soda & water mixture. grease it up with some vaseline or silicone grease and then report back.
Cheers

Sounds like a plan. Good idea to clean up the contact surfaces as well. I use a Dremel, with the wire brush attachment, to polish it up.

Even New batteries & terminals should be cleaned. The dull finish is oxidization already starting to happen.

[PimpinMatrix]

use a Dremel, with the wire brush attachment

AWESOME IDEA!
Thanks for the tip!

[trb]

Wow Thomas,

That's a lot of batteries...
Your mustang thinks your batteries are energy drinks!

LOL! Almost a dozen may be exaggerating a bit, but it is at least 8 or 9. OEM lasted less than 2 yrs, and I got 3 from Montgomery Wards after that for the price of one battery. Worst battery was one that exploded after only 14 months or so! Then Wards went under and since then I've had about 4 batteries from Walmart that each lasted 24 - 40 months. Lucky I can just push start it most of the time when it dies!

Part of the problem I think is the recommended battery for my car is too small for a V8. I think the Vibe has a bigger battery - CCA and such!

[PimpinMatrix]

Thought I would give everyone an update.
It WAS the Battery! Took the car to a mechanic and they did a complete review of the car.
Looks like I've got some more work that needs to be done:

- Lower control arm bushings (practically gone) needs replacing (after 120K and 10yrs) I guess its time
Question? Has anyone done this themselves? I've got manual transmission do I need to support the engine/tranny?

- Right front wheel bearing (frickin loud driving around town)
Question? Is this easy to replace myself?

- Ball Joints (Replace them while I'm doing the bushings?)
Question? This should be easy right?

- Left front strut leaking (removed)!
Question? I just got these installed last year TRD coilovers and one is failing? Frick! I'm not happy!

While I'm under the car should I also do Rear Axel Beam Bushings & New Motor Mount Inserts?
All parts will be Polyurethane so hopefully they will last me another 100K +

So should I be able to do this myself or take it in to the shop! Let the pros work on it?

Thanks

[CharlesinGA]

Thought I would give everyone an update.
It WAS the Battery! Took the car to a mechanic and they did a complete review of the car.
Looks like I've got some more work that needs to be done:

- Lower control arm bushings (practically gone) needs replacing (after 120K and 10yrs) I guess its time
Question? Has anyone done this themselves? I've got manual transmission do I need to support the engine/tranny?

- Right front wheel bearing (frickin loud driving around town)
Question? Is this easy to replace myself?

- Ball Joints (Replace them while I'm doing the bushings?)
Question? This should be easy right?

- Left front strut leaking (removed)!
Question? I just got these installed last year TRD coilovers and one is failing? Frick! I'm not happy!

While I'm under the car should I also do Rear Axel Beam Bushings & New Motor Mount Inserts?
All parts will be Polyurethane so hopefully they will last me another 100K +

So should I be able to do this myself or take it in to the shop! Let the pros work on it?

Thanks

Are you mechanically inclined? do you have at the very least, a couple of jackstands and a decent jack? Do you have a set of metric wrenches and sockets, a couple of prybars? various hammers including brass hammers to keep from damaging bolts?

From what I see on my '04 I'd say the lower arm bushings are manufactured into the control arm, thus you have to buy entire new arms. The ball joints are bolted onto the arms, and other than a rather high torque on the bolts, are easily separated from the arms

Taking the "while I'm under there...." attitude is a little cavalier since the rear axle is.... well.... at the other end of the vehicle and is probably another days work.

I have no idea if anyone makes poly bushings for this car, if they do, the old ones have to be cut out, or pressed out, depending on how the new ones are made..

What a coincidence, you and I both have 19 posts to our credit, mine since Apr 20 of this year, and yourself since 2004 (and mine doesn't count the ones made before the BBS change over, after which I had to re-register..... and I don't participate much, just a little.

Charles

[PimpinMatrix]

Hey Charles,

Thanks for replying.
Ummmmmm... yeah... I need more tools (does that give you enough info )
I think what I'll do is order the parts and provide them to my mechanic.

In regards to the Control Arm Bushings there was a post by madbikes on the matrixowners forum
Google Cached link HERE it appears that all I do need are the bushings and not the entire arm. I'll have to confirm with my mechanic 1st.

Cheers