Looking to add a new car soon; thinking Mazda5 or Sportwagen TDI.

[Cougar Vibe]

My van is finally on it's last legs...I suspect it needs a new rack & pinion box, which will run $400+ installed on a vehicle that already has other problems and is only worth ~$1700. That said, we live pretty well beneath our means, so adding a car payment into the mix is no big deal.If demand wasn't so tight right now, I'd probably go out and get a Prius w/opt package II. Though it's a polarizing vehicle for some, I keep my cars long-term and the gas savings would make up for any pricing premium over similar sized vehicles. But again, that's not an option due to the tsunami and local (Seattle/Portland) dealer price gouging.So, I've narrowed my choices down to two vehicles, though neither vehicle "checks all the boxes." 1) Mazda5 Touring (can be had for ~$20,400 according to TrueCar). Updated design, seats six in a pinch (we're a family of four, kids are little), sliding rear doors (can not overstate how awesome that is w/kids), pretty well equipped w/the "Touring" package, "zoom zoom" reputation...though I'm a pretty sedate driver. The problem is mpg: 21/28 (ugh). 2) VW Sportwagen TDI (~$25K). The 2011 SW is a holdover from the previous generation Golf styling (in other words, the front fascia and interior has not been redesigned to look like the new Jetta); I consider that a bonus. Seats five, but has amble rear storage. SW TDI comes almost totally loaded (sans sunroof and 17" wheels). Gas mileage is 28/40, though diesel runs about $.75 more per gallon over unleaded. The problems are price & maintenance: It's about $5K more than the Mazda5, and though I'd keep this vehicle long-term, I'm worried about VW long-term quality and diesel-specific maintenance (the only diesel I've ever owned was a '84 Passat wagon, but that was old-school).So, any opinions about my potential purchase? Any wagon-type alternatives (the C-Max will surely come up, but I suspect it will be too $$$ and hard to find) I missed?Thanks,Cougar Vibe

[star_deceiver]

The Mazda looks like a well suited vehicle for your needs! Mini-van type convenience! I'd be interested in your thoughts on the Ford Transit Connect.VW..... lease it... Drive it for 2 years or 35000 miles then give it back, let someone else deal with the headache of VW electronic failure. The Diesel: Too much emission garbage to deal with, IMO!

[jake75]

Elantra Touring? Accura makes a wagon under $30k that I like if that's within your budget. Scion xB; Kia Soul; Nissan Cube?.

[lovemyraffe]

VW TDI or Audi. The Audi Avant models don't come in TDI, but do give you Quattro AWD.

[Kincaid]

The Mazda 5 was my 1st choice but I got the Vibe because it was $2000 cheaper. I'd look for a used Mazda 5 as I like the styling better than the newly refreshed model. I'd get the 5 speed because it's more fun and cheaper. In 2009 a 5-spd Mazda 5 could be had brand new for barely over $16k. Sadly, the 5 speeds are severely de-contended. In any case - seats six, sliding doors, hauls tons o' crap with the seats down. Two kids are also separated by arm rests and some space so less slapping on long trips.I also recommend the Hyundai Elantra Touring. That was my number two choice. Hauls more than the Vibe and not a bad looker. Gets very good mpg of course.Everything bad I've heard about VW is anecdotal, but I've heard lots of second-hand scary stuff regarding long-term quality. Plus, every old VW I've ever ridden in seems to be falling apart.

[Cougar Vibe]

Well, I'm knee deep in Mazda5 negotiations. Tried out TrueCar, got a "local" dealer (225 miles away) who is offering the mid-level A/T Touring model in Copper Red Mica w/Sand interior for $19.8K. It's not a bad price, considering the content, but I'm angling to get one of the local three Mazda dealerships to match or get close; a flight to Seattle and return drive isn't too appealing. Anyway, I'll keep looking this weekend. For kicks, I'm going to test drive an Optima SX 2.0t...

[cptnsolo77]

Since you are both the type who lives below thier means. This may be of interest:http://www.daveramsey.com/arti...biles/ ... iles/These reads opened my eyes....

[jake75]

Quote, originally posted by Kincaid »The Mazda 5 was my 1st choice but I got the Vibe because it was $2000 cheaper. I'd look for a used Mazda 5 as I like the styling better than the newly refreshed model. I'd get the 5 speed because it's more fun and cheaper. In 2009 a 5-spd Mazda 5 could be had brand new for barely over $16k. Sadly, the 5 speeds are severely de-contended. In any case - seats six, sliding doors, hauls tons o' crap with the seats down. Two kids are also separated by arm rests and some space so less slapping on long trips.I also recommend the Hyundai Elantra Touring. That was my number two choice. Hauls more than the Vibe and not a bad looker. Gets very good mpg of course.Everything bad I've heard about VW is anecdotal, but I've heard lots of second-hand scary stuff regarding long-term quality. Plus, every old VW I've ever ridden in seems to be falling apart.I owned a new 1986 VW Golf. P-O-S. I hold a grudge. Never again.I also like the Elantra Touring. The Mazda 5 is nice - but the mpg is disappointing and the 3rd seat only suitable for midgets and small children anyway. I also read where it is a bit underpowered.

[jake75]

Quote, originally posted by Cougar Vibe »Well, I'm knee deep in Mazda5 negotiations. Tried out TrueCar, got a "local" dealer (225 miles away) who is offering the mid-level A/T Touring model in Copper Red Mica w/Sand interior for $19.8K. It's not a bad price, considering the content, but I'm angling to get one of the local three Mazda dealerships to match or get close; a flight to Seattle and return drive isn't too appealing. Anyway, I'll keep looking this weekend. For kicks, I'm going to test drive an Optima SX 2.0t... Like the color choice. What is the MSRP on that one?

[Cougar Vibe]

Quote, originally posted by cptnsolo77 »These reads opened my eyes....It's sort of funny that you linked that first Dave Ramsey story. I've had my beater van for two years and seven months; paid cash for it and have been stashing money aside for our next "new" car. Thus, I'll probably end up financing half of the new car...or about $10K (at 2.99%). I figure 24 months will be the payoff period, but it's a three year loan so I've got flexibility if something comes up. That said, of all the cars I've owned, the only new car I've purchased was my Vibe...and it's been the most reliable of all. If used car prices weren't so insane right now, I'd go buy a 2-3 year old used vehicle; but it's almost a wash now to just go buy a new one outright and have the added bonus of bumper-to-bumper & drive train warranties. But I completely I understand Ramsey's viewpoint: For most Americans, it's just a perpetual cycle of debt. For me though, the only debt I have is a mortgage and it's very manageable. And alas, it's not like I'm going to go buy a midlife crisis Corvette or something else on the periphery; I'm probably making the blandest, safest, most boring choice of the lot. Quote, originally posted by jake75 »Like the color choice. What is the MSRP on that one?That red is about the only appealing color Mazda offers on the 5 line. All this silver, dark silver, smoke, white & black stuff is so boring...and when a manufacturer offers a real color option, they're hard to find (they're having to pull the car I'm interested in from a dealer in Oregon). But then again, who am I to complain? My Vibe is a moonstone...and it hides dirt better than just about any other color.As for the MSRP, it's $21,990. Here's a TrueCar screen capture of the quote that I followed up with:http://imageshack.us/photo/my-...r.jpg/The only way they're making money is from volume dealer holdbacks.

[jake75]

Quote, originally posted by cptnsolo77 »Since you are both the type who lives below thier means. This may be of interest:http://www.daveramsey.com/arti...biles/ ... iles/These reads opened my eyes....Again again I say to you brother - buying new is not necessarily a bad idea. Dealers are lucky to make $500 on a new car. They probably make $2,000+ on a late model used car. Drive that used car around the block and ask the dealer what he will pay you to buy it back. You will probably find that 15 minute depreciation % as bad a new car. If you finance, the rate on new cars is significantly less than on new cars.A new car has at least a 36 mo. bumper to bumper warranty, new tires, new brakes, new shocks, new fluids (transmission, coolant etc.). Unless you drive a lot of miles you should be able to drive a new car for 3 years with no expense beyond oil changes and tire rotations. Recently used car prices have firmed up so even the so called experts advise not relying on the old advice of buy used but to run the numbers. OK - you have run the numbers and find all things considered the new car is $600 more expensive. Is that worth it? I place a value on (a) not having to bother with service and repairs, and even (b) the satisfaction that comes from having a "new" car. While it is getting tougher to drive a hard bargain these days, in the past I have scored killer deals by buying when the time was right, not necessarily when I needed a new car. I also have generally been able to sell my old cars for thousands more than the dealer trade-in offer.Most recent buy I traded up my 2003 Vibe (sold privately) with 33,000 miles for a new 2009 for an out of pocket difference of a little less than $4,000. Divide that by 72 months use and you get $56 a month. My only repair on the 2003 was $190 or so for that problematic inside/outside air control. If there is a lack of a compelling new car deal I will just drive my 2009 Vibe until one arises. Same is true for my 2007 T&C. (Cost me about $5,650 difference to move up from an identical 2004 I had for 45 months - still, $125/mo not bad depreciation for a new car.)

[Kincaid]

I agree on the color choice - red was the only one I wanted too - though a lot of that choice would do with getting the two-tone interior.I intended that after a few years of wear and stains I would replace the light cloth seats with black leather Katzkins with tan piping.

[Cougar Vibe]

Quote, originally posted by Kincaid »I agree on the color choice - red was the only one I wanted too - though a lot of that choice would do with getting the two-tone interior.Dealers are telling me that most of the mica red Touring models were built w/the sunroof option, which I don't need/want; alas, it's looking more and more like I won't get the red.That said, I'm now experiencing the fiasco that is "TrueCar" one-price negotiating.Two dealers, one outside of Seattle and one in Portland, are offering Touring model 5's for $18943; many in stock, though none in red or blue (my back-up color). So, I'll compromise and get a dark gray or silver one, right? Wrong. I'm all ready to go...just need a purchase order from one of them will all the pertinent info so that I can sign, Fed-Ex, buy an airplane ticket and close this thing out on Saturday. Alas, now I'm getting the runaround...no callbacks & emails going unanswered after agreeing in principle to the price, etc. I hate buying cars. I've got money, I've done all the work and all I want is the deal offered...but they aren't enthusiastic about my business. I guess they're still waiting for a whale to show up at the dealership and pay MSRP. Anyway, if I don't hear anything by tomorrow night, I'm never going to spend my money with them.

[star_deceiver]

Perhaps it's time to call and email the district managers on other higherups!

[jake75]

Hold out for the red - you'll find one. If that is what you want it is worth an extra 5% ($500).

[Kincaid]

Don't suppose you are a member of Costco? I've heard that buying program is very stress free.If I had the money at the time I was ready to run up to a Mazda dealer on Whidbey Island - the only red Mazda 5 with a 5 speed stick that I could find. Figured I'd ride the bus up and drive the car back.So, nothing in Coeur d'Alene or Boise?

[Kincaid]

Oh, and as for silver v. gray - I hate the gray Mazda color. It is supposed to be mica I think but it always looked flat and lifeless to me.(edit) well, checking the Mazda website it looks like the gray may be different anyway.Have you test driven a Hyundai Elantra Touring?

[Whelan]

I myself looked into the Sportwagen a bit. The TDI version really intrigued me as it came with a 6MT. I built one online in white with the optional 18" black wheels. It looked unbelievable.My concerns were that the car is going to be in a new model soon and take from the current Jetta instead of the Golf (i.e. headlights, interior, etc.). Which can be a good or bad thing depending if they model it after the US spec Jetta or more the European spec (better materials).Someone in my neighborhood has a new 5 and it's a pretty nice looking car for it's size. Very practical and I know Mazda has a good track record with reliability, especially on the 3.Either is a good choice, but if you want to be higher up, and have more headroom. The 5 would be the better choice.

[Cougar Vibe]

Quote, originally posted by jake75 »Hold out for the red - you'll find one. If that is what you want it is worth an extra 5% ($500).I did find a red Touring model after all and you aren't too far off of the premium I'm paying to get it ($600 over the TrueCar low price, but the dealer is throwing in a set of all-weather mats and a rear bumper protector). I'm signing the paperwork this morning at my local credit union and then going over to Seattle Saturday morning to pick it up.Quote, originally posted by Kincaid »Don't suppose you are a member of Costco? I've heard that buying program is very stress free.If I had the money at the time I was ready to run up to a Mazda dealer on Whidbey Island - the only red Mazda 5 with a 5 speed stick that I could find. Figured I'd ride the bus up and drive the car back.So, nothing in Coeur d'Alene or Boise?I've got a Costco business account, so I did price them; they were okay, but still about $300 higher than TrueCar. BTW: Overstock.com offers a similar service to Costco, but it's actually TrueCar (just throwing that out there in case someone else goes on a deal hunt).CdA and Boise dealers were not willing to negotiate much off of MSRP; very similar to Spokane. I think when you have a captive audience, which those cities have as there are fewer dealers to compete against, they can afford to play the old-school dealer schtick. Seattle/Portland is much more competitive, so lower price/higher volume means they can be profitable w/hold-backs and dealer incentives.Quote, originally posted by Whelan »I myself looked into the Sportwagen a bit. The TDI version really intrigued me as it came with a 6MT. I built one online in white with the optional 18" black wheels. It looked unbelievable.My concerns were that the car is going to be in a new model soon and take from the current Jetta instead of the Golf (i.e. headlights, interior, etc.). Which can be a good or bad thing depending if they model it after the US spec Jetta or more the European spec (better materials).Someone in my neighborhood has a new 5 and it's a pretty nice looking car for it's size. Very practical and I know Mazda has a good track record with reliability, especially on the 3.Either is a good choice, but if you want to be higher up, and have more headroom. The 5 would be the better choice. One of the main reasons I was considering the current Sportwagen is that it was a holdover from the Golf, very similar front end and the interior materials are better than the new "budget" Jetta for N. America-only. The best deal I could get was about $25.5K, which was getting sort of pricey; granted, that Sportwagen version comes pretty well equipped, but it still had wheel covers, no sunroof, no foglights (I think). Also, that came w/the DSG, so the fun-factor wasn't too great considering how torquey (sic?) the motor is.As for the 5, my only real hangup was the mediocre gas mileage; 21/28 isn't great by any stretch, but it's around 3,500lbs...and that's asking a lot of a stretched Mazda3 platform. But hey, I don't think I could get more "ManVan" for the money and I'm surely not going to get better gas mileage from anything else w/sliding doors and seating for six. Anyway, once I get home with it and have a chance to wash/wax/detail it, I'll throw some photos up. Cougar Vibe

[Kincaid]

Awesome! Love it.

[Sublimewind]

Quote, originally posted by Cougar Vibe »One of the main reasons I was considering the current Sportwagen is that it was a holdover from the Golf, very similar front end and the interior materials are better than the new "budget" Jetta for N. America-only. The best deal I could get was about $25.5K, which was getting sort of pricey; granted, that Sportwagen version comes pretty well equipped, but it still had wheel covers, no sunroof, no foglights (I think). Also, that came w/the DSG, so the fun-factor wasn't too great considering how torquey (sic?) the motor is.Cougar Vibe My mom wanted a TDI Jetta when she was looking, couldn't find one during the GFG craze... I got to drive one with the DSG transmission... If you haven't go drive one... It's incredible... You think low fun factor... totally not true... the trans shifts so fast, you don't even know it... it's like the hand of GOD pushing you... AND 90% of the torque comes down low in a diesel, so it's got grunt that no simple 4 or 6 could really match... Go drive one, then decide... besides the drive, it's like a frikkin Swiss Army Knife... so many gadgets and gizmos to play with... dooo eeet...