spring ?

[mrgrn]

I am thinking about geting some springs and have read a few threads, but still need some advice. i am thinking about the tiens or the eibachs, which is better? Also this is just a 2" drop right? Is there any other things needed to do this mod, or just bolt them in? How long shoild it take and how much shat do they take apart when doing this mod? I am picking up my Motegi M4's in gun metal soon and want to do it all at once.

[MadBill]

This thread should be good for a few opinions, and here's mine:Anything much less than a 2" drop will look stock to someone that doesn't know our cars. I used the Teins and I thought the look was perfect. The fender radius seemed to match that of the tire and there was still enough travel for any loads I will carry. My only problem (see previous thread in Handling, etc.) was that my way-oversize 275/40 x 17" tires scrubbed on a combination of bumps and hard cornering, so I went back to th stock springs with 1/2 turn cut off. I'm sure the Teins would be fine on any "normal" tire. (We're putting them in my freind's GT this weekend.) Re installation, there is a wonderfully detailed install guide SOMEWHERE in the forum, but I couldn't find it when I was doing mine.Install took me about 5 hours, but that included tearing apart half the cargo area to access the upper strut mounts. Turned out all I had to do was remove the spare tire compartment cover and the compartment tray that runs accross behind the rear seats.One item I think gets overlooked to the detriment of ride quality is that at least with the Teins, the instructions call for trimming the shock jounce rubbers.Oh, yes: The ride felt at least as good as stock, and the handling was much improved!

[yank dini]

I use Eibach Pro-Kit Springs. I have an 1"-1.5" drop. with an 18" wheel combination and tower bar. Now they guy at Belle Tire told me that he loves Eibach's because the difference between those and other springs are that you dont have all that "bouncing" when you're on the road, and when you hit breaks in the road the spring rate makes the car bounce flat then smooth out. Result a better overall ride. Not to mention the excellent handling. I can hit a 50 mph max curve doing 100mph with ease..........If you know what you're doing the job takes about 2 hrs. you might want to either get with or wait on Pablo too post some directions on how to install them he just did his own last weekend. The only other thing that you would have to take apart other than the normal hardware that must be removed is the floor board and Spare Tire Kit in the back hatch area.Now with my drop there is still a small gap with my 18" wheels but I live in Michigan I need not scrape my purdy Nitto's on these terrible roads in some spots so It works for me

[Pablo1669]

I absolutely love my Eibachs. I've noticed a much tighter ride, without any real noticable harshness over bumps. The install was relatively easy, just time consuming. Here is a basic walk thru, I will write a more comprehensive one in a week or so when I can get some pics to go along with it.to do the Fronts. Jack up the car, remove the wheel. You will then have to remove the tie rod, disconnect the break cable mounts from the strut. Remove the 3 nuts from the engine compartment, and the 2 large bolts from the bottom of the strut. Pull the strut out of the car and compress the springs. Remove the cap and slide the spring out. Place the new springs on the strut and compress them. put the cap back on and then remove the compressors. Replace strut into car, and reconnect everything. For the rears, jack up car, remove tire. Remove rear cargo trays so you can get to the top mounting part of the strut. take off bolt from bottom of strut, and remove the 2 nuts from on top of the strut inside the car, and the bolt from the top of the strut in the wheel well. Do the same thing mentioned above with the spring compressors to change the springs. You should be good to go. Like I said, I will get a really good walk thru written up as soon as I get the chance. With Pics.

[MadBill]

Just one minor point re Pablo1669's instructions, in case you go ahead without waiting for his illustrated version: That "tie rod" he's speaking of is the anti-roll bar link, not the steering tie rod. (You need a 6 mm allen key to insert in the center of the stud to keep it from turning as you remove the nut.) Oh yes, one more: It's easier to break loose the big retaining nut at the top of the front shock strut if you do it before taking out the strut.

[mrgrn]

Thank you guys for your help.I called ptuning today and they have a special on a set of springs, front strut sway bar, rear sway bar for like $299 i think. Is that a good deal, i know the springs are not tein or eibach.

[mitro]

quote:Re installation, there is a wonderfully detailed install guide SOMEWHERE in the forum, but I couldn't find it when I was doing mine.I assume you were looking for this: http://www.deepstaged.net/toymattein.htmI've got it bookmarked. Tein intall happening this weekend here.

[mrgrn]

silverawd26, they are progress, as well as the rear sway. It is listed in the combo deals on ptuning.com

[MadBill]

Quote> I assume you were looking for this: http://www.deepstaged.net/toymattein.htmI've got it bookmarked. Tein intall happening this weekend here.Excellent link, Mitro! That isn't the one I had seen, but it is at least as good! (Maybe the other one was from a Matrix link) Anyway it looks most useful. Of course, that's not to say I can't still nit-pick a few minor items, per this e-mail to their site: "Hi.Just wanted to complement you on the excellent install procedure you published at: http://www.deepstaged.net/toymattein.htm for Tein Springs on the Matrix. I recently dropped a set in my Vibe, and I would have saved a ton of time and head scratching if I'd seen them first!I do have some minor suggestions:As my car had spent a winter in Eastern Canada, rust had camouflaged the 6 mm Allen socket in the anti-roll bar link mount, so I struggled with vice grips, etc., to prevent the stud from turning as I unscrewed the nut. A mention of same might save someone some grief. (Likewise the fact that the same size socket is found in the top of the rear strut shaft, to prevent it turning as the nut is loosened)I found it was better to break loose the 17 mm shock top nut before removing the strut, as it was hard to hold the top flange on the bench. (with an air wrench this would not be problem, but not all of us are so-equipped)Neither Tein's nor your instructions address the fact that when you cut the rear rubber, it loses its press fit on the shock shaft, and so it and the plastic protector slide downwards, exposing the shaft to road debris.(see pix 24 & 29) This may not be an issue, and if not, the instructions should say not to worry about it. Just to be safe, I bonded it to the upper seat with weather strip adhesive. It would be useful to include torque specs for all fasteners, as the big knuckle to strut bolts are probably often under-torqued, and I know a couple of people have over-torqued and stripped the 12 mm front upper mount nuts. (not to mention wheel nuts!)I eye-balled the camber and toe-in before and after and decided it was close enough, but a comment on whether re-alignment is unnecessary, advisable or mandatory would be appreciated.Thanks again for the straight and simple story!Regards,Bill Ballbilljan.ball@sympatico.ca

[MadBill]

quote:Oh ok... Hmmm.. I wonder if anyone here has used progress. ?I remember some time ago (2-4 months?) seeing unflattering references to a spring supplier in the Handling section. A couple of members said they were sagging badly after a short time. I'm 90% sure it was Progress that they were having trouble with.

[redtrdmatrix]

I can say that Teins look good but they're pretty bouncy.Just check out my pics on http://www.redtrdmatrix.com

[mitro]

Covering all the bases as usual, Bill. I'll sleep better tonight knowing that you're on the job! (proofreading instructions). Just make sure you are online Sunday afternoon when I'm actually doing it. LOL

[shibaman]

I have Hotchkis springs on my vibe and love the ride quality and handling. The car is less giggily over the small stuff but can drop more over the big dips. It really tightened up the handling of the car. It droped almost 2" in the front and 1.5" in the rear. It is not an extream drop but is very functional. I already had their bars so I figured that their springs would work best with them. The car handles and rides great!

[MadBill]

I'm sure you'll be fine Mitro, but I'm installing another set Saturday, so if any more refinements to the instructions surface in the process, I'll post them in the PM.

[Pablo1669]

quote:Just one minor point re Pablo1669's instructions, in case you go ahead without waiting for his illustrated version: That "tie rod" he's speaking of is the anti-roll bar link, not the steering tie rod. (You need a 6 mm allen key to insert in the center of the stud to keep it from turning as you remove the nut.) Oh yes, one more: It's easier to break loose the big retaining nut at the top of the front shock strut if you do it before taking out the strut. good catch on my error MadBill.

[Pablo1669]

quote:I do have some minor suggestions:As my car had spent a winter in Eastern Canada, rust had camouflaged the 6 mm Allen socket in the anti-roll bar link mount, so I struggled with vice grips, etc., to prevent the stud from turning as I unscrewed the nut. A mention of same might save someone some grief. (Likewise the fact that the same size socket is found in the top of the rear strut shaft, to prevent it turning as the nut is loosened)I found it was better to break loose the 17 mm shock top nut before removing the strut, as it was hard to hold the top flange on the bench. (with an air wrench this would not be problem, but not all of us are so-equipped)Neither Tein's nor your instructions address the fact that when you cut the rear rubber, it loses its press fit on the shock shaft, and so it and the plastic protector slide downwards, exposing the shaft to road debris.(see pix 24 & 29) This may not be an issue, and if not, the instructions should say not to worry about it. Just to be safe, I bonded it to the upper seat with weather strip adhesive. It would be useful to include torque specs for all fasteners, as the big knuckle to strut bolts are probably often under-torqued, and I know a couple of people have over-torqued and stripped the 12 mm front upper mount nuts. (not to mention wheel nuts!)I eye-balled the camber and toe-in before and after and decided it was close enough, but a comment on whether re-alignment is unnecessary, advisable or mandatory would be appreciated.Thanks again for the straight and simple story!Regards,Bill Ballbilljan.ball@sympatico.caI did have air tools, so that helped a lot removing the real tight bolts. If you don't have the air tools, you can always use what I call a "cheater bar". Take a longer metal pole and place it over the handle of the wrench you are using for more leverage. Also, in breaking loose that top nut on the rear strut tower you mentioned... I placed the strut on the garage floor, put the allen key in the bolt, and held it to the ground with my shoe. then I just cranked on the bolt until it came loose. Once that sucker gets loose, she's easy to take off.I haven't gotten an alignment yet as I am getting new rubber to replace those AWESOME Conti's (sarcasm people). I figured I would wait since I haven't noticed any pulling, bad steering or such.

[MadBill]

Good tip re the "foot rest" approach, Pablo. Re the air tools, I could probably find room in my garage for a compressor and all the air toys to go with it, but then I'd have no room for my "hanger queen" Camaro. Then there's the cost factor... Guess I'll just have to stick with the speeder handle and cheater bar.

[Pablo1669]

quote:Good tip re the "foot rest" approach, Pablo. I spent a few minutes trying to break that sucker loose, then I was like, screw this, I'm done being gentle. Set my foot down on that beast and cranked her loose. Felt pretty good when it finally came off. Thank god my spring compressors (Autozone's actually) had saftey locks.

[threekrows]

for those who aren't too "mechanically inclined"....DON'T take the top nut off of a strut without the spring compressed,as you might not be around to regret it