custom air intake

dillpickle1000 · Post by **dillpickle1000** » Tue May 20, 2003 1:09 pm

check it out and tell me what you think...gained 15 hp!!!

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Vibe Rater · Post by **Vibe Rater** » Tue May 20, 2003 1:21 pm

How do you know you gained 15 hp?

redtrdmatrix · Post by **redtrdmatrix** » Tue May 20, 2003 1:59 pm

Have you dynoed it to backup your statement ?

cohocarl · Post by **cohocarl** » Tue May 20, 2003 5:45 pm

quote:check it out and tell me what you thinkWhat do you think? Did this change the response of the engine? Do you have it set up to switch on at WOT only? Do you have any before/after acceleration runs? Any check engine lights?How did you make the mount for the maf?Thanks,Carl

Triton · Post by **Triton** » Tue May 20, 2003 9:16 pm

I don't want to sound negative, but you basically have a modified short ram. No short ram I know of adds close to 15 hp, especially on a base vibe motor. I have an Injen CAI that has been dyno tested to add 12.9 hp at the wheels. If it does gain you 15 hp, please tell us how you got that number. That is a big gain and I'm sure there are a number of members here who would duplicate what you did for that amount of hp.

NovaResource · Post by **NovaResource** » Tue May 20, 2003 11:28 pm

quote:check it out and tell me what you think...gained 15 hp!!!Personally, my opinion is that those bends are too harsh to gain the 15-hp you claim. How are you getting the 15-hp figure?

Flip-Side · Post by **Flip-Side** » Tue May 20, 2003 11:30 pm

quote:check it out and tell me what you think...gained 15 hp!!!Please tell me thats not an electric blower under the filter. Not trying to burn you man, but when you claim 15 hp on a short ram intake you gotta back it up with proof. Most pros don't believe electric fans give any performance incease, so how bout a dyno?

dillpickle1000 · Post by **dillpickle1000** » Wed May 21, 2003 12:24 am

well everyone...its not just an cai look alike, its a cai blower.....if you look closely you can see the blower motor and that forces the air into the pipes at a faster rate....I also have a switch inside of my car to turn on/off the blower for dyno result...yes I did test on a dyno and I'll post that shortly..its not quite 15..its 12...sorry had to make it sound a little better ..the check engine light does not stay on, so i have no problem with that

NovaResource · Post by **NovaResource** » Wed May 21, 2003 12:38 am

Ah. . . yeah. . . here's how to build one:Electric Supercharger

savedbyzero · Post by **savedbyzero** » Wed May 21, 2003 12:44 am

Sorry, but I think it's crap...even if it does "work" you'll be throwin' CEL's like crazy. The MAF is quite a piece to deal with. I can't see how you're not, but whatever. And I don't see how it's "cold air" It appears that it's pulling air from the engine. This equals warm air...Should saved the money and bought an AEM or Injen in my opinion...Let's see the proof, then I'll try to be more positive. Don't come claiming numbers with a photoshopped dyno result!

Flip-Side · Post by **Flip-Side** » Wed May 21, 2003 12:45 am

Hahahahahaha..........Hahahahaha!Leaf blower....mounted on hood...too rich.

Triton · Post by **Triton** » Wed May 21, 2003 12:49 am

quote:Ah. . . yeah. . . here's how to build one:Electric Supercharger LOL!!! That is hilarious!

NovaResource · Post by **NovaResource** » Wed May 21, 2003 1:02 am

In theory I can understand how an electric supercharger should work but I've never seen on in application that actually did. There are plenty that claim they work but I would like to see a well known and respected independent source test out all these claims are get real numbers.One of my favorite quotes from one of my favorite racers:"If the facts disagree with your theory, believe the facts and invent a new theory." - Warren Johnson

Sub-Vibe-R · Post by **Sub-Vibe-R** » Wed May 21, 2003 1:32 am

quote:Ah. . . yeah. . . here's how to build one:Electric Supercharger LOL!!! That is hilarious! I completly agree with you!!

redtrdmatrix · Post by **redtrdmatrix** » Wed May 21, 2003 5:46 am

Is he using a hair dryer motor LOL

MadBill · Post by **MadBill** » Wed May 21, 2003 10:57 am

A few more thoughts/comments:o One easy way to get a good indication of HP potential would be to hook up a pressure gauge upstream of the throttle. If the blower could maintain for example 1-1/2 psig at full throttle and 5,500 RPM or so, then it should be good for about 12 net HP [1.5/14.7 (atmospheric pressure) x 130 HP = 13.3 minus say 1.5 for the added electrical load]. o If, on the other hand, the gauge read say 3" of vacuum, then the "blower" would be being spun like a turbine by the intake airflow and would absorb power! o Theoretically, with a small but high pressure electric blower, it would be possible to add torque at low RPM, break even at mid range and lose power at the top end, as the blower ran out of breath!o The stock Vibe system looks to get partially/mostly cold air, since the inlet is just behind an opening in the rad support, thus the "hot air" filter arrangement here would likely cost 4-5 HP vs. a true CAI.o As an alternative/supplement to a verified dyno test, I'd like to see boost gauge readings at say: "blower on, engine off"; idle and 1,000 RPM intervals up to red line. Maybe a short video clip?Color me skeptical, but open to revelations...

dillpickle1000 · Post by **dillpickle1000** » Wed May 21, 2003 1:03 pm

the blower is hooked up to the trottle and then you can acutually turn it on or off by a switch inside of the car.....the blower will turn on if you step on the gas peddle to a certain extent, but it will not turn on if you dont step on the gas peddle. the blower is not some kind of hair dryer or leaf blower engine ...its a lot bigger then that....and the air is comming in from the actual air tube inside engine compartment.... let me ask you guys something....a lot of guys out there consider that the cai to be true, but i have a different theory.......when air comes from the air intake tube, the aluminum tubing on the cai gets hot becuase of the engine compartment, sun, and maybe its not even cold air comming from the outside, so is it actually hot of cold air going to the engine?????????? guys guys guys...i'm not trying to start anything with all of you.....I'm just trying to give out new ideas or maybe make a little dough on the side....I know it works but if some people are dissing about this...just ignore me, or just think as me as some kind of freak that's trying to give out fause info.............but for some people out there that thinks it might work, I will try to keep you up to date...thanks

NovaResource · Post by **NovaResource** » Wed May 21, 2003 1:20 pm

quote:when air comes from the air intake tube, the aluminum tubing on the cai gets hot becuase of the engine compartment, sun,Sun? I don't get any sun on my intake with the hood closed while driving.quote:I'm just trying to give out new ideas or maybe make a little dough on the side....Ah ha! The truth comes out.

dillpickle1000 · Post by **dillpickle1000** » Wed May 21, 2003 1:37 pm

quote:--------------------------------------------------------------------------------when air comes from the air intake tube, the aluminum tubing on the cai gets hot becuase of the engine compartment, sun,--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Sun? I don't get any sun on my intake with the hood closed while driving.quote:--------------------------------------------------------------------------------I'm just trying to give out new ideas or maybe make a little dough on the side....--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Ah ha! The truth comes out.hey buddy......just an idea and why not make any money on a IDEA!!! most compaines started on a idea and they patent it and make million or billions on it....I'm posting it becuase someone out there might be smart enough and maybe make it and try it on their own vibe.....for people that don't maybe they want to buy it from me and installed by me and they're satisfied and me also.....so am i pointing a gun to your head and making you buy it or is it your choice?????..and by the way, i meant the sun hitting your hood and transfer the heat to your aluminum hosing

dillpickle1000 · Post by **dillpickle1000** » Wed May 21, 2003 1:44 pm

I just explained it. Lets try to keep the peace because sometimes we brush people the wrong way. Lets just smile.... sorry silverawd i will try to keep it peaceful but people have to try to understand it before they make new judgement.......and dont try to be smart!!!! JUST AN IDEA...........

NovaResource · Post by **NovaResource** » Wed May 21, 2003 1:54 pm

quote:Nova, he is talking about when it is a hot day when the sun is out. You know, how the car gets hot inside. Oh, like when the sun shines through the windows? I don't have any windows in the hood of my Vibe.

ragingfish · Post by **ragingfish** » Wed May 21, 2003 2:02 pm

I think we need a GROUP HUG!

dillpickle1000 · Post by **dillpickle1000** » Wed May 21, 2003 2:04 pm

yeah tell me about it........

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dillpickle1000 · Post by **dillpickle1000** » Wed May 21, 2003 2:06 pm

im new....please dont block me!!!!just signed on yesterday..sorry about all the mess

AKLGT · Post by **AKLGT** » Wed May 21, 2003 2:52 pm

quote:Dill... You are fine. I was talking about to have someone locking the thread so no more posts can be made on this topic... I do not want a heated fight to breat out. that would be shame. For some of us not so technical and familiar with car mechanics or how everything works, these forums prove very educational. I've installed 2 CAI in 2 of my vehicles myself having absolutely no knowledge of my own. Although the bantering back and forth may appear hostile, it still is quite informative aobut how the CAI actually works.I have a Vibe GT and would be interested if you could do something similar with the 2ZZ engine. I especially like how the filter is easily accesible as mine is not. rather a real pain. Please keep me posted on this. I'd be very interested in changing/modifying my current CAI system. I've also contemplated the SLP ram air hood and wonder if this unique system would work with that hood?

savedbyzero · Post by **savedbyzero** » Wed May 21, 2003 4:40 pm

Dill, doesn't even look like the hood will shut. Let me guess, you built a hood scoop out of a bucket cut in half and mounted to the hood! Just kidding! As far as the discussion about CAI vs WAI, well, the temp will increase, but I'd rather start with cooler air. I've had both on my vibe, now. The CAI is definitely putting out more by my (removed) dyno. Look at any manufacturer's websites or people's personal dyno runs and it's obvious which makes more power. Put your knowledge to good use and develop a safe turbo for the 2ZZ. Then you'll be seeing $$$$$ Finally, NOVA and I agree!!!!!

MadBill · Post by **MadBill** » Wed May 21, 2003 9:24 pm

quote:Nova, he is talking about when it is a hot day when the sun is out. You know, how the car gets hot inside. Oh, like when the sun shines through the windows? I don't have any windows in the hood of my Vibe.At the risk of descending once more into acrimony, I read an article on vehicle testing that said GM has measured temperatures as high as 170 degrees F. inside the trunk of a black car in Arizona at mid day in July...

NovaResource · Post by **NovaResource** » Wed May 21, 2003 9:53 pm

quote:At the risk of descending once more into acrimony, I read an article on vehicle testing that said GM has measured temperatures as high as 170 degrees F. inside the trunk of a black car in Arizona at mid day in July... So you're saying that you don't need windows or actual light in the trunk (or the engine compartment) for it to get hot. If that's that case then why does tinting your windows (blocking out some of the sunlight) make it cooler inside the car?BTW, his Vibe is silver, not black. It reflects sunlight and the heat it generates.

MadBill · Post by **MadBill** » Thu May 22, 2003 3:00 am

[Oops! While I was hunting for the right keys, silverawd26 got in some similar (and less wordy) thoughts!]Oh, well, here it is anyway: A lot of the heat that builds up inside a car with untinted glass is due to the sun's radiant energy passing through the glass and being absorbed by the upholstery, dash, etc. (As below, some enters through the roof) Since radiant energy is proportional to the fifth power of the radiating surface's temperature, there is virtually no energy re-radiated by the internal surfaces of the car; it is all conduction and convection, which does not pass back out through the glass very well, so the inside air and surfaces get much hotter than the outside air. Tinting the glass greatly reduces the transmitted radiant energy, so the interior stays cooler.In the case of a trunk, engine compartment or roof, the radiant heat (much more so in the case of black vs. white or silver paint, since a dull black surface absorbs nine times as much radiant energy as a white one) is absorbed by the paint and conducted through the sheet metal and into the air inside, where it is trapped. Surprisingly, maximum recorded temperatures inside the passenger compartments of closed dark coloured cars are about the same as in the trunk.

redtrdmatrix · Post by **redtrdmatrix** » Thu May 22, 2003 6:20 am

Damn that's hot I guess you could cook some eggs and bacon for breakfast all within the comforts of your car

dillpickle1000 · Post by **dillpickle1000** » Thu May 22, 2003 12:41 pm

savedbyzero i got a couple of questions for ya!!!after all this information is been said about heat underneath the engine compartment, do you think it's possible that the aluminum will heat up faster then like say insulated rubber hosing or pvc pipe???...see, the way i figure it, the air comming in from the tubing( where factory air comes in) will be cold or at least outside temp., but if you use pvc or rubber hosing, the air might stay cold becuase its insulated and also the blower will push the cold air into the engine faster comparing to an cai 1.) the cai don't have any blower on it, so the slower you go the aluminum hosing heats up more and less air comes in 2.) the aluminum hosing will be effected by the engine heat a lot greater than pvc or rubber, 3.) and also the cai will not make a low smooth sound like you have an expensive exhaust on it....so its up to you which one to believe, but the truth is right in front of ya.........have a good day!!!

Flip-Side · Post by **Flip-Side** » Sat May 24, 2003 11:23 am

quote:do you think it's possible that the aluminum will heat up faster then like say insulated rubber hosing or pvc pipe???... http://www.icemanmotorsports.com/index.html Thats why Iceman intakes are made of plastic. The theory has been around for a while. An electric blower also sounds promising, but when you factor in how much power a strong electrical motor would take to produce enough boost, it makes me wonder if a cars alternator puts out the needed power. I'm am by no means close-minded, so if you have updates I'm listening.

MadBill · Post by **MadBill** » Sat May 24, 2003 11:37 am

Good point, Flip-Side.Since one horsepower is 746 watts, and an alternator is not 100% efficient, a 100 amp alternator (the Vibe's may be smaller) putting out 13.6 volts would give no more than 1-1/2 HP, and there are many other loads on the system. However, the supercharger blower would not run continuously, so for short periods, the battery could make up the difference.Seems like it just might work...Bring on the data!

Flip-Side · Post by **Flip-Side** » Sun May 25, 2003 3:38 am

I have always liked Ice-Man intake systems. Too bad they don't have one for us.As for short boosts from an electric motor, I supose it would be feasible. But mabey some large capacitors would help the system to support the short term power requirement. Just like lightning caps in high output audio systems. This has always been a topic without much insight or proof positive, so some hard facts would be pretty neat.

Lorin · Post by **Lorin** » Sun May 25, 2003 5:04 am

Wow - I've been away from the site too long and missed a lot of fun! (banter = fun)....We had an expression back in the Midwest (maybe folks everywhere do) that Silver Paint = "Kentucky Chrome"........ The paint was applied evenly and looks nicely done, but I can't get past "Kentuck Chrome".....

savedbyzero · Post by **savedbyzero** » Tue May 27, 2003 9:06 am

PVC can emit a gasses when heated. You can chance it on that hairdryer if you want, but not me. There is obviously an advantage to a CAI vs. WAI. I gaurantee there is a temp. difference in the two. The air travels up the pipe so fast, it has very little time to heat. Granted, it gain some heat, but not equalling a WAI.And as far as the "factory airbox", during the install of the high-tech forced induction system you're fabricating, I'm sure you removed the "bong" from the fender well. Why do you think it was placed there, other than to cut down on intake noise?

Lorin · Post by **Lorin** » Tue May 27, 2003 10:13 am

bong?

PBFlash · Post by **PBFlash** » Tue May 27, 2003 10:22 am

What is the debate about? In another thread you claimed a 12 hp gain from your intake compared to a 12.9 hp gain with an Injen CAI on a base. It's obvious that your intake works but not as good as the Injen. quote:the cai will not make a low smooth sound like you have an expensive exhaust on itThe CAI on mine gave me a very nice low smooth sound. quote:the truth is right in front of yaWhat is right in front of us? I haven't seen a dyno sheet showing the gains you claim. In another post you said you were selling them for $300. Why pay more for this than a CAI which has better performance results?

dillpickle1000 · Post by **dillpickle1000** » Tue May 27, 2003 12:50 pm

PBflash, well i believe everything that your telling me, but can you show me prove that you gain 12 hp with the cai!!!! please keep me informed and like i said this is just an idea and i want to advertise it, but just a idea mainly...if you like it you like it...if not.......then don't like it simple as that......

savedbyzero · Post by **savedbyzero** » Wed May 28, 2003 12:02 am

The "bong" is the intake resonator found in the wheel well.

Flip-Side · Post by **Flip-Side** » Wed May 28, 2003 4:32 pm

quote:like i said this is just an idea and i want to advertise it, but just a idea mainly...if you like it you like it...if not.......then don't like it simple as that...... It's not whether we like it or not. Its whether you have the dyno that proves your gains in hp that you claimed. If you don't have one, just say so and we'll leave it at that.And yes, though I didn't believe it at first, you can get a 12 hp gain with a CAI on a GT. The gains are less on a base model.

satur9 · Post by **satur9** » Thu May 29, 2003 6:02 am

i say this for the guy he did a nice job fabricating that thing but i dont dig the silver.mabey you could paint it in that black gooey insulating crap.kill two birds with one stone. how many cfm is that exhaust fan. all the skeptics will stop once you post that dyno. good luck.