DONE! and it works!! - Tuneable Rear Sway? Cheap beam clamps and a bar of steel

sstress · Post by **sstress** » Mon Oct 06, 2008 1:44 pm

I was searching for methods of tightening up my stock rear sway bar without spending the money on an aftermarket sway bar. I found a volkswagen tuner site where they have been using clamps and flat steel to stiffen the rear end (some spot weld the bar, but they claim the clamps give the same result without the risk of welding). They say it works great... and by changing the quantity and position of the beam clamps, allows for tuning of the rear "sway". Interesting huh? I'm gonna give it a try.Here's a simple graphic of the approach. The flat steel can go along the top and/or the bottom of the box, depending on desired stiffness.

ou.grizzly · Post by **ou.grizzly** » Tue Oct 07, 2008 7:06 am

Looks like it would not give too much and may cause uneven tire wear?I thought a rear sway had rubber isolated end points/links and were someone flexible to avoid wheel chatter? Not too sure about this idea.

sstress · Post by **sstress** » Tue Oct 07, 2008 8:46 am

Oh no, the beam has nothing to do with alighnment, unless of course it got bent. The only thing that the rear box/sway bar does to a torsion beam rear suspension is keep the rear wheels the same distance apart and allows for independent movement of the two sides, within the range of its flexibility of course.if you made it a solid bar of box steel with no flex whatsoever, the rear end would not allow any indendent movement of each rear wheel. An aftermarket sway bars achieves the same goal of adding some level of increased stiffness as adding some strength to the box.Either way... it wont and can't hurt aligment. And according the VW guys that run old VW Rabbits and such, it actually works to give the car a more level ride.I'll report more later, and post pics.

Sublimewind · Post by **Sublimewind** » Tue Oct 07, 2008 9:19 pm

Interesting..... watching..... waiting....

harryyiii · Post by **harryyiii** » Wed Oct 08, 2008 10:35 am

The Progress bar costs $100, installs in 15 minutes, and cures understeer completely. It is fun to play around, but the Progress bar is easier.Note the incorrect statement that a sway bar has grommet at each end. A torsion beam rear suspension has some antisway built in. The stock bar is rigidly bolted between the top and bottom flanges with two vertical tubes welded at the end of a horizontal tube. The Progress bar is just a bigger tube. Installation requires a 150# torque wrench to insure that there is absolutely no play at each end.

sstress · Post by **sstress** » Thu Oct 09, 2008 8:56 am

Now why did you go and do that? Spoil all my fun. I agree, the Progress bar is the way to go... but the curiosity is killing me.PROS (assuming it performs well):Cost- chunk 'o steel: $15- Beam clamps $5 ea x 4Total = $35CONS: Ride quality/unsprung weight: The combo of a chunk of standard regular flat steel (3/8" x 1" x 5') and the weight of cheap-o cast beam claps... on top of the weight of the already existing sway bar. What to do, what to do....

sstress · Post by **sstress** » Sun Oct 12, 2008 4:51 am

Done... and very very impressed. Hands down, the best $22 mod ever. I have never driven with a Progress bar so I cant compare it to that, but I cannot believe how much this cured all of the nose plow. It feels like a totally different car. Flat and predictable. Amazing results.Here's how I did it... I bought one 4' long, 1/4" thick x 1 1/2" wide piece of flat steel at Lowes ($10). Lowes did not sell beam clamps so I headed for Home Depot. They have them in the electrical department. I bought 5 for $10 ($2 ea). They have a 250 lb clamping force at 60 in lbs.Assembly only took 30 mins. Here's some pics I took of the process. I plan on painting it later.Cut the flat steel to size... chopped off about 5 or 6".Place flat steel across the top of the rear box.Close up of the beam clamp... I did add some thread locker to keep them from coming loose.Measure and place beam clamps equally spaced, keeping clearance in mind.Closer image of the clamped steel.Car on the ground.... clearance check. No interference with anything.The test drive was more impressive than expected. I'm totally sold on this solution. If necessary, I can add another bar across the bottom for even more strength, or utilize a thicker piece fo steel. Personally, I think this feels pefectly balanced.All for $22.... wow. Thanks VW guys!

sstress · Post by **sstress** » Sun Oct 12, 2008 8:21 am

That is a great idea. Thats why I added the lock tite, but the additional dimple would keep it from wandering off the plate, which could happen even if it the bolts didnt loosen up. And yes, the bolt does hgave a rounded tip.Awesome idea! Thank you!

sstress · Post by **sstress** » Sun Oct 12, 2008 9:06 am

I like the idea of using wire to make sure they cannot fall off... two small holes in the end of the flat bar, wire to the ends of the axle (or some other secure spot) and then run the wire throgh each beam clamp. That way none of the clamps could fall off, and even the bar would be secured.See image below for steel wire route:

ou.grizzly · Post by **ou.grizzly** » Sun Oct 12, 2008 9:19 am

Why not go all out, sandwich 2 pieces with some bigger claps?

JohnC · Post by **JohnC** » Sun Oct 12, 2008 9:45 am

Excellent idea/project, I love low cost improvements like these. My only advice would be to remove it if you ever sold your Vibe, with all the lawsuit happy people you never know what they could sue you for,i.e. ruptured fuel tank in crash, couldn't make a curve...you know the drill.I was sued by a guy that rolled a jeep I sold him (he also sued the tire manufacturer, city and Chrysler). He claimed the tires were too big causing him to loose control. Luckily I had put the largest size tire that Jeep sells them with new so that let me off the hook.Congrats on a great project, cant wait to go to Home Depot and give it a try.

sstress · Post by **sstress** » Sun Oct 12, 2008 10:02 am

Quote, originally posted by ou.grizzly »Why not go all out, sandwich 2 pieces with some bigger claps?I could, but there is a limit to how tight you want to make the rear end. Too tight and each wheel will no longer act independently. The ride would get harsh, and it could 3 wheel around corners.Also, I remember reading an article about the testing and development phase of the first Progress bar. They had a larger one, but when they took it around a track, the back end spun out. You do need some flex to keep it on the ground and keep it balanced.At this point, it really doesnt need anymore.

sstress · Post by **sstress** » Sun Oct 12, 2008 10:04 am

Quote, originally posted by JohnC »Excellent idea/project, I love low cost improvements like these. My only advice would be to remove it if you ever sold your Vibe, with all the lawsuit happy people you never know what they could sue you for,i.e. ruptured fuel tank in crash, couldn't make a curve...you know the drill.I was sued by a guy that rolled a jeep I sold him (he also sued the tire manufacturer, city and Chrysler). He claimed the tires were too big causing him to loose control. Luckily I had put the largest size tire that Jeep sells them with new so that let me off the hook.Congrats on a great project, cant wait to go to Home Depot and give it a try. Good advice. I will definitely take it off... and I plan to put my stock coils back on, and stock rims/tires.

sstress · Post by **sstress** » Thu Oct 16, 2008 11:02 am

I wired the steel chunks to the car. Now if it comes loose, it won't hit the ground and smash the car behind me! Thank you for the words of wisdom!!! See pic below:A $5 spool of steel wire did the trick.

ou.grizzly · Post by **ou.grizzly** » Thu Oct 16, 2008 1:36 pm

How is putting wire on those brackets (that barely have any surface area as is) going to keep the entire bar from flying lose, the wire is not attached to the bar...?

Sublimewind · Post by **Sublimewind** » Thu Oct 16, 2008 10:54 pm

That's AWESOME...!!!! Personally though, I would just drill the beam and bar and bolt it on... SS hardwear and all... That bar and wire is going to rust like MAD BTW..

Sublimewind · Post by **Sublimewind** » Thu Oct 16, 2008 10:56 pm

Quote, originally posted by ou.grizzly »Why not go all out, sandwich 2 pieces with some bigger claps?It could easily be "tuned" with thicker/thinner stock.. Could this be the beginning of a "drift" machine..?? LoLYou knwo they DO drift front drive cars... it's just not as spectactular as a rear driver... I used to drift my VW around corners all the time... It just take a different mindset.. lol..

sstress · Post by **sstress** » Fri Oct 17, 2008 11:16 am

Quote, originally posted by Sublimewind »That's AWESOME...!!!! Personally though, I would just drill the beam and bar and bolt it on... SS hardwear and all... That bar and wire is going to rust like MAD BTW.. I dont want to drill the stock parts. Unless I find the beam clamps give me a problem. Then I might consider some careful welding.And yes, this kind of metal is very quick to rust. I plan to paint the bar, I just need another weekend. The wire was a bummer... I was looking for the old-school binding wire that used to be used on cars way back before cotter pins. No luck... so I went with what they had.BTW... I used to live in MI where the rust would happen in 2-3 days. The salt stays in the road year around. But now, living in the Colorado desert with 25-30% humidty and no salt ever used on the roads, rust is not a problem. There are ridiculous cars still on the road out here... old stock gremlins, pacers, volare station wagons... the cars just don't rot!

Sublimewind · Post by **Sublimewind** » Mon Oct 20, 2008 2:03 am

You are lucky then.... I would still bolt it... 5 holes, spaced that far apart isn't going to hurt anything... Welding might though, depending on how far the heat soaks the metal... Doesn't matter good show... You are lucky on the salt, i'm sure you know...

sstress · Post by **sstress** » Mon Oct 20, 2008 3:04 pm

Man... I have to agree. Bolting it would be a lot cleaner. Alright, stainless hardware and a new drill bit. I'll post up pics when I get it done.BTW... they have a saying here when the snow hits the ground... "salt? ohh no, the sun'll get it". I do miss the woordward cruise though.

Sublimewind · Post by **Sublimewind** » Tue Oct 21, 2008 1:45 am

Quote, originally posted by sstress »Man... I have to agree. Bolting it would be a lot cleaner. Alright, stainless hardware and a new drill bit. I'll post up pics when I get it done.BTW... they have a saying here when the snow hits the ground... "salt? ohh no, the sun'll get it". I do miss the woordward cruise though.Yeah it would deffinitly be cleaner, and you wouldn't have to worry about losing anything... Nyloc nuts don't forget.. lol... You mean the WoodWard "parking lot" ... .

snesar · Post by **snesar** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 6:56 am

Hello,I looked at sstress idea and built on to it. Rather than using beam clamps, I measured the distance b/w sway mounts and drilled 1/2" holes on the steel bar. The holes are 40" apart, and I left 2" on each side after the holes. The total bar length is 44". Then I took the nuts off from the sway bar beam, just put the new bar up top, and tighten the nuts back again. I realized that the stock bolt may not be sufficient length after putting the bar on, so I got 1/2" bolts with 4 1/2" length from homedepot to replace stock nut & bolts. worked perfectly, tightened it to around 180 ft-lbs.Some observations, the sway beam is slightly curved, but after tightening the nut, the bar nicely follows the contour, except in the middle.Have been driving since Saturday, no noise, clunk or any sound. Turning is much easier than it used to before. I can take much faster turns now with full control (less understeer). Never 3 wheeled yet, no loss of traction during turns, even in rain. Much straight and smooth on freeways. I'm happy. Thanks sstress!I just wanted to try this. Dont know if I should still try Progress RSB. I wish I had a way to compare. Altough Progess is attractively priced, the total thing costed me $14!

yyamad1 · Post by **yyamad1** » Tue Feb 01, 2011 6:10 pm

Hello, sorry to bring up an old thread but came across this while i was trying to decide between progress and trd rear sway bar.. what a great idea! how has it held up? I think I will try this as well!!! but maybe ill put it on the bottom side.. as it will be easier to drill thru the stock beam... can you let me know how its been doing? thank u!

vibedrivermatt · Post by **vibedrivermatt** » Wed Feb 02, 2011 2:30 pm

^^whoa I'm glad you revived because I haven't seen this thread yet. Awesome work! what a cool idea! Although I'll be honest I wouldn't have thought that would work in concept but as everyone can see it does.

Sublimewind · Post by **Sublimewind** » Wed Feb 02, 2011 9:41 pm

I wonder what different shapes would do for performance? The flat stock being used here is "ok" but we all know how easy it is to bend a plastic ruler.. same difference.. I wonder how 1x1 angle would work.. I wonder the stiffness difference..

Sublimewind · Post by **Sublimewind** » Wed Feb 02, 2011 9:42 pm

Quote, originally posted by yyamad1 »Hello, sorry to bring up an old thread but came across this while i was trying to decide between progress and trd rear sway bar.. what a great idea! how has it held up? I think I will try this as well!!! but maybe ill put it on the bottom side.. as it will be easier to drill thru the stock beam... can you let me know how its been doing? thank u!If you read the post just above your, dude, didn't even NEED to drill, he used existing bolts... the proper way.. !!

yyamad1 · Post by **yyamad1** » Thu Feb 03, 2011 11:52 am

I did but you think 2 bolts is enough for the entire length? These bars are really flimsy, and in the middle it may slap around is what Im thinking...I was at Menards today and flat steel bars are really flexible. and angle irons are rock solid. A steel rod was in the middle. So Im contemplating using a 1/2 inch rod and welding a square stock on the ends, then bolt it. I guess the easiest thing would be to just try the flat bar with two bolts...

Sublimewind · Post by **Sublimewind** » Fri Feb 04, 2011 12:13 am

Quote, originally posted by yyamad1 »I did but you think 2 bolts is enough for the entire length? These bars are really flimsy, and in the middle it may slap around is what Im thinking...I was at Menards today and flat steel bars are really flexible. and angle irons are rock solid. A steel rod was in the middle. So Im contemplating using a 1/2 inch rod and welding a square stock on the ends, then bolt it. I guess the easiest thing would be to just try the flat bar with two bolts... TOOO stiff is just as bad as too soft.. trust me... you could end up with a car, so tail happy, you wouldn't WANT to drive it.. could really disrupt the handling...If you want more stiffness, without getting crazy, add another slab of flat sock, just stack them.. If you are worried about the center, put a clamp on, just dimple the flat stock so it bites an locktite it..

yyamad1 · Post by **yyamad1** » Fri Feb 04, 2011 5:35 am

Ok sounds like a plan, just need to go buy a stock bar then maybe one clamp in the middle like u said. Ill see how that goes. Wearing 16inch snow tires and the car does sway more with higher side wall tires.. Would be nice to tighten it up running energy suspension control arm bushings, stock springs with Tokico Blue. Thanks for ur help.yohei

Salsa Guy · Post by **Salsa Guy** » Fri Feb 04, 2011 8:10 am

Just wondering if anyone has done this with an AWD Vibe/Trix?

Sublimewind · Post by **Sublimewind** » Fri Feb 04, 2011 9:53 am

Quote, originally posted by yyamad1 »Ok sounds like a plan, just need to go buy a stock bar then maybe one clamp in the middle like u said. Ill see how that goes. Wearing 16inch snow tires and the car does sway more with higher side wall tires.. Would be nice to tighten it up running energy suspension control arm bushings, stock springs with Tokico Blue. Thanks for ur help.yoheiThat wiggle and sway actually HELPS you in the winter.. a tighter suspension means things react quicker (very true) but you DON'T want fast reactions and a "bite" into the snow.. You want slower, smoother reactions to things, causing less disruption to the driving line... Once the snow's gone, bar up..

Sublimewind · Post by **Sublimewind** » Fri Feb 04, 2011 9:55 am

Quote, originally posted by rmckinjr »Just wondering if anyone has done this with an AWD Vibe/Trix? I believe the AWD model has IRS, which would use a more traditional type swaybar if i'm not mistaken..

yyamad1 · Post by **yyamad1** » Sat Feb 05, 2011 3:22 pm

hmmm IC, I guess I can put it off, the garage is a mess and its freezing out here anyways.. Thanks for the heads up. We have plenty of snow here.Y

Salsa Guy · Post by **Salsa Guy** » Sun Feb 06, 2011 12:44 am

Quote, originally posted by Sublimewind »I believe the AWD model has IRS, which would use a more traditional type swaybar if i'm not mistaken.. Yes but I don't know of anyone that make's one.

Kincaid · Post by **Kincaid** » Wed Feb 09, 2011 6:19 am

I'm starting to think not getting a GT was not such a bad thing after all.

yyamad1 · Post by **yyamad1** » Tue Mar 08, 2011 4:26 pm

so I finally done the deed:) installed a flat piece as it was described here. The only problem, lol I drilled the 2 1/2 inch holes a little too far apart. maybe off by 1/4 inch or so. so the slab didnt fall into the bolt holes.. well, i just flexed the bar and made it work for now.. Just seeing what it would do. a bar already in tension The test drive was awesome. I love how the car feels and handles. Very neutral and the sway is almost completely gone. Feels much like a go cart! When there was some icy condition yes, my rear end was a bit happy. But Ive already switched back to summer tires and man, I realllllllly enjoy driving the vibe! I wish i could try a car with Progressive but since Im cheap I will not buy one. anyways, thanks to the people on this list!!!

patmanbbe · Post by **patmanbbe** » Mon Mar 28, 2011 7:57 pm

Just thought I would chime in here. I just did this mod as well but with a few variations. I used a 1"x 1" piece of aluminum L shaped stock. I also opted to drill and bolt it under the torsion bar. It looks great and no need to paint it.I did feel a very nice difference in the handling. It tracks much tighter around the corners and it turns in much nicer, much improved from the heavy under-steer before. I expect much better after I get the strut brace welded up and installed.

yyamad1 · Post by **yyamad1** » Fri Apr 08, 2011 4:09 am

patmanbbe, i hope the bar is working great still. I wanted to use an aluminum too for its weight reduction but since the bar will be flexing I opted not to. I thought that aluminum would be too brittle and perhaps fatigue and break after a while. Your experience will be cool to keep up with.

Natty Vibe · Post by **Natty Vibe** » Fri Apr 08, 2011 1:19 pm

Thank you! Did mine and Wow! What a difference on my stock vibe. Drives almost like a regular car now. Still want to stiffen it more though... Probably just me but i think the front doesnt dip as much when braking as the rear stays down.I was thinking of Progress rsb but wasnt too sure if it makes a difference on everyday driving. Been told i drive like Gramps sometimes when I have passengers or have my yak on the roof. I make my turns like theres a hot cup of joe on the dash. On camping trips north on Highway1, I usually pull over an let the caravan pass me. The vibe leans over too much to one side on turns even going 10mph. For $15 I was willin to try this out. Bolted the 1x1 angle alum. on top using the two existing 10mil nuts on each side as I dont have a half inch bit. Took it for a test up the twisties by myself and its still holds. Now I just have to keep an eye on them regularly as not too sure of reliability.

star_deceiver · Post by **star_deceiver** » Fri Apr 08, 2011 1:26 pm

Did you loctite the bolts down?

Natty Vibe · Post by **Natty Vibe** » Fri Apr 08, 2011 1:29 pm

double lock washers

DONE! and it works!! - Tuneable Rear Sway? Cheap beam clamps and a bar of steel

DONE! and it works!! - Tuneable Rear Sway? Cheap beam clamps and a bar of steel

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