LED Fog Lamps And New HID's but a ?

[josholiver1]

8000 K HID's And Fog Lamps.Ive disabled the DRL's for over a year now and im missing the auto headlamps feature even if it gives me DRL's. My question is wether i am going to fry my balast if i hook the DRL's back up...my HID kit just gets the signal from the headlamp and connects to the battery directly and their Bi-Xenon. Im just wondering if the lower signal will mess up my HID's...Led Fog Lamps

[Kamikaze]

Looking good, I'm not sure on the answer to your question... being that you are pulling the voltage from the battery...we all know that the DRL's are at a lower voltage, but if you're not pulling the voltage from the headlight wiring, you'd think it would be ok... but I don't know.

[josholiver1]

K. Im guessing if they dont flicker like ive read some do in DRL mode then im ok.

[Whelan]

An HID only pulls a larger wattage during startup of the ballasts. Once running they work at 35watts continuously. One thing I have noticed is that pretty much no car made today has DRL HIDs. Most of those luxury cars have regular smaller halogens or marker lights that turn on for DRL and then HID when the headlamp is activated. Therefore I can see a few problems having HID hooked up to a DRL system.1) They will burn out faster. Even though they last longer than a typical halogen, still takes life away.2) Do you have it hooked to the battery via a relay? If so then you are only drawing power from the battery during startup, otherwise you could run the risk of surge causing the ballast to short out.3) I would just disconnect or keep the DRL disconnected. I personally see no need for DRL. 4) If your that concerned about it, switch off your DRL and just drive with your headlamps on. The HID system cannot run like a DRL and only provide a low light situation. HIDs are either on or off, there is no dimmed out headlamp like you would see on a VW or such and then full power given when its in headlight mode. P.S.-your pictures are all red Xs

[josholiver1]

Ok. All i really wanted was the auto headlamp feature, but i understand what your saying, and new HID bulbs arnt cheap. Thanks =]

[specialbuddy]

just bought a vibe. Do I have to buy 4 HID bulbs for high/low?

[Kamikaze]

Quote, originally posted by specialbuddy »just bought a vibe. Do I have to buy 4 HID bulbs for high/low? No. Our Vibes only have 1 bulb, it does both the low and high... The High/Low HID Conversion kit has built-in magnetic mechanisms that move the Xenon bulbs back and forth to change the lighting angle for high-beam and low-beam (instead of having 1 xenon bulb and 2 ballasts, or 1 Xenon bulb and 1halogen bulb).============Will I be able to keep my high beams?This varies from vehicle to vehicle. If your vehicle uses separate bulbs for low beam and high beam (most new vehicles), the conversion kit will not affect the function of the high beam bulbs as it simply replaces the low beam bulbs. In vehicles where a single bulb is used for both high beam and low beam (like H4, 9004 and 9007) you can either use our standard Xenon HID Conversion Kit and lose your high beams, or you can use our Bi-Xenon HID Conversion Kit to keep your high beams. Keep in mind that a standard xenon HID bulbs put out 3X as much light as a halogen bulb, so the high beam is often not necessary: however, this choice is entirely up to you.*Please note that Xenon HID bulbs take about one minute to fully ignite. Using xenon HID bulbs will cause you to lose the ability to 'flash' another car.Will DRL (daytime running lights) or Auto-Switch-On effect the HID kit?For vehicles with DRL (daytime running lights) that use the same bulb for both DRL and low beam, you will need to deactivate your DRL. Most DRL operate on reduced wattage or fluctuating current levels. This will cause the HID ballast and bulb to flicker and burn out prematurely.

[Whelan]

Good follow up Kami.Also note people that I drive a Matrix. We have a 9006 low beam and 9005 high beam so mine is two separate bulbs which makes the kits cheaper and less involved. For the Vibe you need what is called a bi-xenon setup if you want HI/lo

[ragingfish]

Here's my take:If the OP is saying that he is using a relay to power the HID's, and only using the original DRL voltage as a relay trigger, then no, there is no problem reconnecting DRL's. Because the DRL voltage never goes to the ballasts, but merely turns on the switch to power the ballasts from the battery, there is no issue with reduced voltage.If, however, the DRL's are powered directly by the stock wiring, then NO, do not reconnect.

[Kamikaze]

Quote, originally posted by ragingfish »Here's my take:If the OP is saying that he is using a relay to power the HID's, and only using the original DRL voltage as a relay trigger, then no, there is no problem reconnecting DRL's. Because the DRL voltage never goes to the ballasts, but merely turns on the switch to power the ballasts from the battery, there is no issue with reduced voltage.If, however, the DRL's are powered directly by the stock wiring, then NO, do not reconnect.I agree, the info I posted was from a website where I purchased my HID for my bike.DRL's shouldn't be an issue if the power is coming direct, and not reduced from the DRL.

[josholiver1]

Quote, originally posted by ragingfish »Here's my take:If the OP is saying that he is using a relay to power the HID's, and only using the original DRL voltage as a relay trigger, then no, there is no problem reconnecting DRL's. Because the DRL voltage never goes to the ballasts, but merely turns on the switch to power the ballasts from the battery, there is no issue with reduced voltage.If, however, the DRL's are powered directly by the stock wiring, then NO, do not reconnect.Thanks for your replies, i always know if i have a question you guys have an answer. I decided to just hook up my FogLamps for DRLs

[keithvibe]

Quote, originally posted by josholiver1 »Thanks for your replies, i always know if i have a question you guys have an answer. I decided to just hook up my FogLamps for DRLs that is till you put hids in your fogs

[specialbuddy]

I'm confused. I thought all I had to do was get some bulbs from a John Deere dealer and cut part of the fastener off and that was it. What's with the kit talk? How much does this cost to do all of this? Thanks for all of your help.

[josholiver1]

Quote, originally posted by keithvibe »that is till you put hids in your fogshaha. If i had the money i would. maybe 12,000k? Quote, originally posted by specialbuddy »I'm confused. I thought all I had to do was get some bulbs from a John Deere dealer and cut part of the fastener off and that was it. What's with the kit talk? How much does this cost to do all of this? Thanks for all of your help.This is the Bi-Xenon Kit i purchased it had pricing and such.http://www.xenoneyes.com/

[specialbuddy]

well what are the John Deere lights for then. Because they are only $25 from what I have read.

[Kamikaze]

Quote, originally posted by specialbuddy »well what are the John Deere lights for then. Because they are only $25 from what I have read. Whelan would be able to best explain, but basically the John Deere lights are HIR bulbs not HID (Intensity Discharge).HIR stands for Halogen Infra-Red. The bulb has a bulbous shape in comparison to a cylinder style. Around this shape there is a reflective coating that is barely visible. It looks kinda like a irridescent raindbowish. That is the IR coating. The filament burns at the stock 50-55W but when the invisible IR light is shed, it is reflected off the coated glass back onto the filament, making it burn brighter, but not produce any excess heat or power usage. Here's the link to the HIR bulbs:http://forums.genvibe.com/zerothread?id=31075

[Whelan]

gather round children its storytimeJohn Deere went to GE years back because they wanted a bulb that produced up the 80% the output of an HID bulb but that ran off the stock harness they use. This was back when HIDs cost around $500 for a conversion kit. So GE got the technology rolling for HIR (Halogen Infra-Red). As explained a bulbous shaped glass instead of the typical capsule with a rainbow looking film on the bulb. This would reflect the IR light back onto the filament causing it to burn brighter but without using more than the standard OEM wattage of 50-55W. GE worked on it to a degree then decided to sell the technology and patents to Toshiba. Toshiba bought, perfected, and now is the SOLE manufacturer and distributor of the lights. Rayburg once got into it by taking a similar style of bulb and mounting it into different sizes such as H3, H1, etc. bulbs. This did not last long and you can not find them on the net anywhere. Currently there are two places you can get the bulbs from. One is a guy on Ebay who sells them at $25 a piece (typical price). Or contacting your local John Deere dealer or parts store and ordering the bulbs. They come in two styles, 9011 and 9012. The 90011 is equivalent to the 9005 high beam bulb. While the 9012 is to the 9006. The bulbs are pretty much identical to the 9005 and 9006. The difference being that one of the tabs that is used to twist and hold the bulb in place is slightly longer and taller than the others. The reason being that JD wanted them for a specific purpose, mainly their 9000 series tractors (think big 8 wheeled tractors in the midwest). Up until recently the only car that had them as a standard OEM lighting system was the first generation Dodge Viper. To replace a bulb was about $150 each. But once Toshiba got the technology perfected and produced them for JD as well, the cost crashed. Bulbs for a time could be had for $9-11 a piece from your local JD dealer. But then the automotive community got a hold of this bulb and the quick and easy mod to it so that it could fit in a 9005 and 9006 housing made it ideal. Well JD is not a sucker, so they raised the price to $20-25 a bulb and now reap HUGE profits from selling these to not only farmers, but the general public for automotive use.The advantages are many on this type of bulb if you do not wish to spend the $$$ on HIDs. 1) Typical OEM low beam operates at around 700-1000 lumens depending on car. An HIR low beam operated at approx 1700-1750 lumens. Just for an FYI your OEM high beam operates at 1800 lumens.2) Typical OEM high beam as stated operates at 1800 lumens, an HIR high beam operates at 2100 lumens.3) Lifespan is similar to an OEM bulb with 1000 hours of use. Compare this to a Silverstar (300 hours), Silverstar Ultra (700 hours), or other colored glass or higher wattage bulb. Also note a Silverstar does have tinted glass which does reduce lumen output even thought he coloring is very white. A SS or SSU bulb operates at around 1200 lumen, so yes it is brighter than stock, but not by much.3) Wattage. By using the same wattage to get a MUCH brighter light with no glare effect, you are saving your wiring and power system. Bulbs that need 100-150 Watts to operate only do so because they require the extra boost to produce light similar to what your OEM output is with there heavily tinted and colored glass.The biggest misconception in lighting that I have ever seen is that people mistake Kelvin temperature for light output. WRONG! The K scale is what is used to measure light coloring, not output. Lumens is what determines actual visible and usable light. A standard OEM HID system operates at around 4300 Kelvin, any coloring effect you may see, such as the more purple Acura and bluer Audi is purely do to the projector lens having some kind of coating on it. That is all. So all of these aftermarket HID kits that offer 3000k, 4000k, 6000k, 8000k, all the way up to 12000k which is a very purple or pink color are simply offering color. And the higher you go in color temp, the less light you are putting out. If you bought a 4300K kit for your headlamp and were not using BMW or Acura projectors on a retrofit, you would notice that your HIDs do not look similar. As for me, the Toyota HID system has a hue to it, so I use a 6000k kit that produces an identical coloring. 4300k produces the most light output for an HID. 3000k is yellow for foglamps. 6000k and 8000k are the typical standard for people who do aftermarket kits with 8k being more blue. And anything above that is people who just want coloring affect who actually end up with less light output than there stock halogens put out which is dangerous.The most visible color to the human eye is actually green, not red or blue. So why don't we all have green headlights. Well that wouldn't make much sense since we need the whiter light to reflect off objects and give us more daylight style circumstances to see in the dark. Just keep in mind what I wrote above and if you have any questions let me know.

[random]

Props to Whelan for story time!As for the HIR bulbs, my manual calls for 9003 and it says these bulbs are just made for 9005-6 What is the differance?TIA

[Whelan]

9003 bulb for a Vibe and also what my 02 Civic used. It is a dual filament meaning both the high beam and low beam run from the same bulb. Similar to most brake lamps where one filament is dimmer for marker lights and the other brighter for braking. 9005 looks almost identical to a 9006. The 9005 runs a higher wattage and is for high beams only. Cars like my Matrix use a dual lamp system so the high beam is separate from the low, the lens in the headlight is different to aim the light higher as well. The only difference between this and the 9006 is that on a 9006 bulb there is one ridge tab inside the connector to the harness, on 9005 there are two guides.9006 low beam similar to a 9005 but with lower wattage 50-55W, and what is used for the Vibe foglamps since they are the same as the Matrix.Currently for a Vibe you cannot get HIRs for your 9003 main headlamp. You can only get them for your foglights since they use a 9006 bulb. The 9003 is a completely different base and shape from the 9006 and 9005. HIRs are similar to a 9006 and 9005 with their 9012 and 9011 sizes. Just that the tabs on the bulb base need to be trimmed so they fit in the socket.

[random]

Whelan,Thanks for the detailed description with pics.I had figured that the 9005/6 were used for the fog lights, but was not clear and you made it crystal on the 9003.I do not do that much driving at night, have a three year old so it is mainly when he goes to the drive inn.I may get the HIR for my fog lights though.

[Whelan]

I've spent years and dollars on lighting for my car so I have gotten a pretty good background. Hence I am currently on my best setup so far for a vehicle. 6000K Xentec HID low beams, OEM high beams, and HIR 9012 (9006) bulbs in the fog lamps with yellow overlays and GM's lexan protectors.The HIDs cost me $70, the HIRs $40 and the high came with the car. I have a replacement for every bulb except the HIDs in my trunk just in case. But switching out a blown HID for a regular halogen is easy enough.Also take note that there are a lot of people who have taken the low beam 9006 fog lamp and swapped it for a high beam. I was tempted to do with with the HIRs given the yellow overlay does reduce output a bit, but it still is pretty bright for me.

[random]

I see I have some catching up to do on fog lights etc.Are the custom lexan covers similiar to these?http://snipurl.com/246a6 [www_headlightarmor_com] Not sure I quite understand your arrangement, you have HID for low beams and OEM for hi beams... so you are using two different bulbs for your headlights each? As for those covers in my link above, would they be better than overlays? If not, why?TIA

[keithvibe]

Quote, originally posted by random »I see I have some catching up to do on fog lights etc.Are the custom lexum covers similiar to these?http://snipurl.com/246a6 [www_headlightarmor_com] Not sure I quite understand your arrangement, you have HID for low beams and OEM for hi beams... so you are using two different bulbs for your headlights each? As for those covers in my link above, would they be better than overlays? If not, why?TIAKEEP IN MIND WHELAN OWNS A MATRIX not a VIBE. His headlights are different than ours.talk to toolguy for your foglight protectors. Or if you are like me you can make your own.http://forums.genvibe.com/zerothread?id=16180

[engineertwin2]

*Before the Children run away...*Just want to make sure it gets fully detailed here. Whelan did a great job, but I got caught up in some details. (Whelan, forgive me for being a jerk and adding technical comments on top of yours - not trying to outshine you buddy)HIR lamps are filled with halogen gas, and these halogens are what cause longer life for these bulbs. The halogen prevents the evaporated tungsten on the filament from depositing on the glass bulb. Since it can't deposit very well on the wall, it often ends up back on the filament. Because filament burnout occurs when there is a lack of tungsten continuity for temperature control and conductivity, filaments in a halogenated environment tend to last longer.The reflective coating that redirects the IR (ie heat) is tantala and silica - which is essentially a ceramic, which works like an insulator (keeping heat in). The reason this creates a brighter bulb is that incandescent bulbs generate light by creating heat (whereas flourescent bulbs generate light by excitation of gas). Because heat is the primary driver of producing light in an incandescent bulb, more power = brighter bulb.The concept of the HIR is to conserve the heat generated to reduce the amount of energy needed to create light. It's first primary purpose wasn't to generate a brighter light - it was to create a more efficient light. It was John Deere engineers who made the simple correlation that they could get brighter light for the same voltage.Now, for those interested, HID (xenon) work similar to HIR lights, but instead have mercury or sodium gas, instead of a halogen gas. The color of the light is an indicator of the temperature of the gas. Xenon bulbs actually work to plasmatize the xenon-mercury gas inside. As this occurs at a higher temperature, the color tends to appear cooler (blue). Even if halogen gases were to be plasmatized like xenon, the temperatures of plasma onset are lower than that of xenon, resulting in a warmer (yellowish) color.

[Whelan]

ET2 I appreciate your addition. I actually learned something myself in all of that technical writing. So far I think this thread is becoming very informative.

[random]

I agree it is very informative, I am learning a thing or two about lighting. Lot;s of decisions to be made. I think I am going to opt for the xenon headlights with overlays for the fogs. Personally I do not think for my driving needs I can justify HID lighting.As for fog lights, are LED's the way to go?