If you were to go nitrous...

[tcam]

If you were to go with a 50shot nitrous, what engine internals would you upgrade? or would you be comfortable staying with your stock internals?I'm really, really considering a NX kit right now, but I think I should at least buy forged pistons & sleeves, and also valves & springs to ensure engine safety. because I'm $#%@ed if I happen to blow my engine..........but I really don't want to spend $2000+ upgrading every little thing in my engine. so I need some input pleeazzz

[djb383]

A 50 shot would require nothing, upgrade wise. Stop and think about it......a in-line 4 cyl has the same number of main bearings as a V8. The design, in general, of a 4 cyl is pretty stout.

[tcam]

what about the high temps of the nitrous? should I be running cooler plugs?

[Lancer]

I agree. A fifty shot (WET!) should be pretty safe. Just have a professional set it up for you. There's been a rash of 1zz engine intake manifolds exploding from improper set up. And, if you have a pro do it and something goes wrong you can try to have them pay for the repairs.Yes you would be using cooler plugs, but not to control engine temps. Its to prevent pre-combustion from occuring from the extra fuel and oxygen in the same compression ratio.Just think, though. If you did do the $2grand of upgrades, you could do a 150 shot! How much fun would that be!? That's what the 12 second 1/4 matrix did.

[tcam]

Quote, originally posted by Lancer »I agree. A fifty shot (WET!) should be pretty safe. Just have a professional set it up for you. There's been a rash of 1zz engine intake manifolds exploding from improper set up. And, if you have a pro do it and something goes wrong you can try to have them pay for the repairs.Just think, though. If you did do the $2grand of upgrades, you could do a 150 shot! How much fun would that be!? That's what the 12 second 1/4 matrix did. holy crap!! 150 shot running a 12 second quarter mile. lol, that's absolutely crazy. how in the hell would it get any traction?I think I'll be satisified with a 50 shot, but I just reallly really really can't blow the engine. my parents would be furious. I still have to convince them that running nitrous is safe if set up properly. lol.....that might take a few hours

[Lancer]

Quote, originally posted by tcam » I still have to convince them that running nitrous is safe if set up properly. lol.....that might take a few hours Easy... You don't tell them! And have the person setting it up make it look like it's part of the original engine.Or, find a comprimise and a way that THEY can be sure that you only use it at the track. Special key to lock everything or something.If you break it you buy it. Keep enough money in the bank for repairs (upgrades ).Who is making the payments? Who's is paying the insurance? Who's name is it under? If one of thes is NOT you, then you should find another upgrade. Like a stroker kit, cams & valve train.Good luck!

[tcam]

Quote, originally posted by Lancer »Easy... You don't tell them! And have the person setting it up make it look like it's part of the original engine.Or, find a comprimise and a way that THEY can be sure that you only use it at the track. Special key to lock everything or something.If you break it you buy it. Keep enough money in the bank for repairs (upgrades ).Who is making the payments? Who's is paying the insurance? Who's name is it under? If one of thes is NOT you, then you should find another upgrade. Like a stroker kit, cams & valve train.Good luck! hahaaha, oOoo geez my parents make the payments, pay insurance, pay for gas, and is under all of our names I think. and I was planning on getting a remote bottle opener too. which would take away from the "having it locked" idea.....soo I guess it sounds like u don't aprove of me getting the nitrous. lol I did a little bit of research on the stroker kit for 2zz, and as far as I know, there are zero matrix/vibers that own one. and I don't really wanna be the guinea pig with something that expensive.

[Lancer]

No, not saying that I don't approve. Just saying that if something DID happen, that your parents would likely be the ones to pay the price. Droped insurance or higher rates for all thier vehicles. If it was all yours I'd say do what ever you want. Or that your parents don't need to know. But, they do have the right to control things with your car. Could try working hard to 'buy' it from them?Honestly, I'm not a huge fan of nitrous. If I could tune my car for it I would. But, I'm not gonna go out of the way just to have it. You have other options for more power. There is a few celicas and mr2's with stroker kits and a lot with cams and valve trains. Same engine, just different chasis. Stroker kit would make your engine into a 2 liter(more togue!). Cams will feed it more air. Port the head (intake, exhaust, valves.) more air. Full exhaust. Then you might as well turbo it and make 400hp. Yeah it would be a lot more money. It would make your engine stronger, so, it 'should' last longer. If you don't beat on it all the time. So your not satisfied with everything you've done so far? I think you have a really nice set up. You seem to have covered everything.

[tcam]

Quote, originally posted by Lancer »No, not saying that I don't approve. Just saying that if something DID happen, that your parents would likely be the ones to pay the price. Droped insurance or higher rates for all thier vehicles. If it was all yours I'd say do what ever you want. Or that your parents don't need to know. But, they do have the right to control things with your car. Could try working hard to 'buy' it from them?Honestly, I'm not a huge fan of nitrous. If I could tune my car for it I would. But, I'm not gonna go out of the way just to have it. You have other options for more power. There is a few celicas and mr2's with stroker kits and a lot with cams and valve trains. Same engine, just different chasis. Stroker kit would make your engine into a 2 liter(more togue!). Cams will feed it more air. Port the head (intake, exhaust, valves.) more air. Full exhaust. Then you might as well turbo it and make 400hp. Yeah it would be a lot more money. It would make your engine stronger, so, it 'should' last longer. If you don't beat on it all the time. So your not satisfied with everything you've done so far? I think you have a really nice set up. You seem to have covered everything.yeah, I understand that they have ultimate control over the car, which is really hard for me live with. lol, it sucks because I care for the car more than anything. I honestly would not mind working hard and trying to pay for it myself, but I just don't have the time. I play tennis at a national level year-round. I'm currently sponsored by Wilson and have to go to tournaments around the country all the time. lol. So in a way, tennis is my job. thanks, for the compliment on my setup. I'm pretty happy iwht where I'm at, but I just want to take it one step further. And nitrous just seemed to be exactly what I was thinking of. A stroker kit would be nice too, but I'd be worried if the tranny could handle all that extra torque. And from what I've heard, cams don't add hardly any hp on a 2zz. And there expensive as @$@# too(including the hydra ems). But the porting the head idea, I haven't really considered yet. Could you tell me a little more about it? is it guaranteed results? would it be $1000+?

[northvibe]

BlueCrush did some research into this for his auto awd vibe. If he doesnt post in here you should ask him about it. Oh and ask on MO theres lots of trix's with nitrous.

[BlueCrush]

Yay! Nitrous!!! Like Lancer said, a 50-55 shot of wet nitrous is what you want. Don't go any more than that. You must also get a system that has a rpm window switch, tps switch and an arming switch so that all three conditions must be met before it will spray. Your rpm window switch must be set to 4000rpm-6500rpm. The people that have been having problems with their intake manifolds blowing up have been setting theirs to spray at 3000-3500. They are getting fuel pooling up in the intake manifold then it ignites and BOOM! If you set it to 4000 to start spraying you will be fine according to the nitrous experts on NewCelica. Cost could run to $1000+/- depending on the kit and install costs. Your best bet would be to find some shops in your area that specialize in nitrous and ask them for quotes.Head porting will run you $1000-1500 for a good job with flowbench numbers for before and after. Boosted2.0(NewCelica) is in the process of setting up to do head porting on the 2ZZ. Check out his threads for more info.

[tcam]

Quote, originally posted by BlueCrush »Yay! Nitrous!!! Like Lancer said, a 50-55 shot of wet nitrous is what you want. Don't go any more than that. You must also get a system that has a rpm window switch, tps switch and an arming switch so that all three conditions must be met before it will spray. Your rpm window switch must be set to 4000rpm-6500rpm. The people that have been having problems with their intake manifolds blowing up have been setting theirs to spray at 3000-3500. They are getting fuel pooling up in the intake manifold then it ignites and BOOM! If you set it to 4000 to start spraying you will be fine according to the nitrous experts on NewCelica. Cost could run to $1000+/- depending on the kit and install costs. Your best bet would be to find some shops in your area that specialize in nitrous and ask them for quotes.Head porting will run you $1000-1500 for a good job with flowbench numbers for before and after. Boosted2.0(NewCelica) is in the process of setting up to do head porting on the 2ZZ. Check out his threads for more info.that's some great info. thanks I had laready done research and understood that I needed the winow switch, but I had no idea it had to be set at 4000rpm. that probably just saved my manifold. lol, thanks. but, why can't I have it set higher on the top end. like 7500prm? doesn't it just have to be sometime before the rev limiter?

[AKLGT]

Quote, originally posted by Lancer »Easy... You don't tell them! And have the person setting it up make it look like it's part of the original engine.Or, find a comprimise and a way that THEY can be sure that you only use it at the track. Special key to lock everything or something.If you break it you buy it. Keep enough money in the bank for repairs (upgrades ).Who is making the payments? Who's is paying the insurance? Who's name is it under? If one of thes is NOT you, then you should find another upgrade. Like a stroker kit, cams & valve train.Good luck! +1000!If you're still on your parents insurance and you still have to pay on your car, i'd probably stay away from the bottle. also, make sure you have enough saved up for a rainy day if something goes wrong and you blow your motor. We had a guy up here with an Evo, self claimed wrenching guru (but always had his car down cause he'd screw it up), put a 75 shot in the car. the shop told him not to hammer it yet, they needed to tune the car better. what does he do? he punches the car and his block blows up! so now he's got no car and no money to fix the car. good thing his mommy and daddy paid to have it fixed since he tried to claim it under warranty (ya right) which of course was denied. did i mention he's 24 yrs old??so moral of the story, you do have to pay to play. that's a saying you will hear over and over and over again. I just spent $1200 after all was said and done to have some of my internals in my auto tranny upgraded just to handle a relatively easy install and turbo upgrade on my car! remember, things can happen once you start upgrading and modding, usually does.

[BlueCrush]

Quote, originally posted by tcam »that's some great info. thanks I had laready done research and understood that I needed the winow switch, but I had no idea it had to be set at 4000rpm. that probably just saved my manifold. lol, thanks. but, why can't I have it set higher on the top end. like 7500prm? doesn't it just have to be sometime before the rev limiter?Oh, yeah you can set yours to 7500. I am just so used to reading and talking about the 1ZZ w/nitrous and not the 2ZZ.

[satur9]

ive been running nitrous on my 1zz for over 3 years. no problem. colder plugs and the right kit youre fine even on the 2zz. i dont have a window switch but it has two set points a window in which to spray. you want to set the first as low as possible(but not under 3000 rpm and on the top end a about 500 or so before redline. if anything id end the switch around 7500 to protect you in case of a bad late shift hitting rev limiter on nitrous is not good.ives sprayed at 3000 plenty of times.at the track i usually rev to about 3000- 3500 and drop the hammer. changed my setup around and when i get my gauges ill take lots of pics.you can click the link in my sig to check out older pics.

[tcam]

arghhh now I can't make up my mind as to if I really wanna go with nitrous or not. lol. I'm really liking the idea of staying N/A and getting the Piper Stage 2 Cams with forged springs & valves. but if I get the aftermarket cams, do I need to buy the Hydra EMS? Or could I stick with just a piggyback ECU?

[satur9]

if you go with the cams power fc or hydra is needed to raise the redline to take full advantage of the cams.unless the unichip can raise the limiter im not sure.

[tcam]

Does the PFC work on the Vibe? I've heard of a ton of Celicas using it, but no trix's or vibes.I'm pretty sure the Unichip can't raise the limiter

[BlueCrush]

There is a reason why no Vibe's or Matrix's are using the PFC.It is not available for our cars. There is no harness available for us.The PFC is similar to the Hydra in that it completely replaces the stock ECU.

[tcam]

Quote, originally posted by BlueCrush »There is a reason why no Vibe's or Matrix's are using the PFC.It is not available for our cars. There is no harness available for us.The PFC is similar to the Hydra in that it completely replaces the stock ECU.that is what I had thought. I just ran a search on MO, and there were some threas started about how multiple people were working on a harness, but it still hasn't been produced.So, if I were to get the cams, I would be required to get the Hydra EMS? no option for piggyback?

[BlueCrush]

Quote, originally posted by tcam »that is what I had thought. I just ran a search on MO, and there were some threas started about how multiple people were working on a harness, but it still hasn't been produced.So, if I were to get the cams, I would be required to get the Hydra EMS? no option for piggyback?You could do the e-manage+camcon combo. E-manage: a/f, ignition timing, injector timingCamcon: Intake cam timingEssentially these two together is what the PFC would do, with the exception of hte PFC being able raise your redline rpm.

[tcam]

Quote, originally posted by BlueCrush »You could do the e-manage+camcon combo. E-manage: a/f, ignition timing, injector timingCamcon: Intake cam timingEssentially these two together is what the PFC would do, with the exception of hte PFC being able raise your redline rpm.I dunno if I like the idea of running two seperate piggybacks. that seems like it'd be difficult to tune, and just kinda confusing in general. but then again, the Hydra EMS seems just as confusing. lol. are there any possible problems/difficulties of running two piggybacks?

[BlueCrush]

I have ran both before. It ran fine I had an autosport wiring harness for the emanage. Had that wired up by a guy in Puero Rico after I screwed it up. Then I wired in the camcon for the intake cam settings only. Never did get it tuned before selling it off. Here is my thread. The pics are long gone though: http://forums.genvibe.com/zerothread?id=20263Then your best bet would be to just run with the e-manage, then maybe add the v-manage in the future since it is made to run in tandem with it.

[tcam]

So, if I understand right, this is what I should do: First install the cams, then take it to a shop and have both units installed, but set it so that the A/F mixture is only controlled by the e-manage. then tune from there on.and the reason I'd like the shops to do these installs is because most of this ECU tuning stuff is simply beyond me. I honestly do not understand it that well. At least not well enough to feel safe about installing them myself and making sure it has a correct tune. If it was PnP, then I'd be glad to do it. But all the adjusting with the Camcon and then combined with the e-manage is pretty intimidating to me. lol. I hope I will learn a lot when I go get it all tuned at a shop.BlueCrush, are you absolutely sure that this a perfectly normal set-up? again, I don't know much about this at all, and I'm just taking ur word for it. lol (sry to be so repetitive/annoying. it's just that these are some fairly major mods we're talking about)

[BlueCrush]

If I were to do it, I would get the boomslang harness prewired with the main, ignition and injector harnesses for the blue e-manage. Get your cams installed, install your PnP E-manage blue get that all tuned for A/F, Ignition Timing and Injector Timing.This will save you money and headaches now. Once you have everything set-up, tuned and running good, just enjoy it for a while to see if you would even need the Camcon. If you do, then you can just get the Camcon and wire into the boomslang harness and get it retuned later.

[tcam]

Quote, originally posted by BlueCrush »If I were to do it, I would get the boomslang harness prewired with the main, ignition and injector harnesses for the blue e-manage. Get your cams installed, install your PnP E-manage blue get that all tuned for A/F, Ignition Timing and Injector Timing.This will save you money and headaches now. Once you have everything set-up, tuned and running good, just enjoy it for a while to see if you would even need the Camcon. If you do, then you can just get the Camcon and wire into the boomslang harness and get it retuned later.wow, that was just the help I was looking for. thanks a ton BC I like that plan a lot. I guess now it's just a matter of saving up the $ and making sure the car is in tip-top condition. lolSo do u think the cam install should be left up to the professionals? cuz I have a friend who's Dad is very experienced with old muscle cars, and I was thinking of getting him to help me. I don't see why it would be that difficult. Just making sure you get it all aligned properly and stuff. And would it be worth getting MWR springs just to ensure that I won't float the valves?

[BlueCrush]

Quote, originally posted by tcam »wow, that was just the help I was looking for. thanks a ton BC I like that plan a lot. I guess now it's just a matter of saving up the $ and making sure the car is in tip-top condition. lolSo do u think the cam install should be left up to the professionals? cuz I have a friend who's Dad is very experienced with old muscle cars, and I was thinking of getting him to help me. I don't see why it would be that difficult. Just making sure you get it all aligned properly and stuff. And would it be worth getting MWR springs just to ensure that I won't float the valves?No problem. People who have changed them out have said the exhaust cam was easy. The intake cam is another matter with the VVT-i. Check some threads on NewCelica.org for more info. With the 2ZZ, I would recommend the upgraded springs and retainers as well since your engine rev's so high.

[tcam]

I just looked on MWR and couldn't find retainers for the 2zz-ge. just the springs.Alright, I'm getting really confused about the valvetrain in the VVTL-I. Does it not use lifters? Or does it have a rocker-arm setup? and what exactly do the retainers do? are those what are attached to the valve stem????? I'm so confused. arrrrghhh, I thought I knew this stuff. lolDoes the lobe just make direct contact with the top of the valve stem? does the engine not use rocker-arms?

[tcam]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:VVTLi.jpgstill kinda confused.

[BlueCrush]

Quote, originally posted by tcam »I just looked on MWR and couldn't find retainers for the 2zz-ge. just the springs.Alright, I'm getting really confused about the valvetrain in the VVTL-I. Does it not use lifters? Or does it have a rocker-arm setup? and what exactly do the retainers do? are those what are attached to the valve stem????? I'm so confused. arrrrghhh, I thought I knew this stuff. lolDoes the lobe just make direct contact with the top of the valve stem? does the engine not use rocker-arms?You will have to contact MWR for more info on the Cams, springs, retainers and the 2ZZ.