SUVs on the way out...

[ragingfish]

I read an article in a AAA mag today that SUV's are starting to lose their novelty...it said with rising gas prices and smaller cars becoming more appealing due to design improvements, and flexibility improvements, people are trading in the "Big Iron" for smaller, more fuel efficent, more sensible cars. Also, people are quickly realizing SUV's are no safer than cars -- their tendency to flip or absorb less impact makes driving one as dangerous as driving a car -- and cars are becoming much safer, now that they discovered warm-hardening steel is more effective at making a stronger body. WOOHOO! I'd love to see the SUV fad fade...but I'm not getting TOO optomisitc yet...This article is really interesting, check it out if you have a few minutes... Check out the full article here

[Stang2Vibe]

I don't really understand why so many people here are so anti-SUV. I'd personally love to have one, I'd love driving the biggest thing on the road. I've liked the Suburbans for years because they were the biggest production vehicles being made. Plenty of room and nobody on the road would mess with you. A good friend of mine has an '87 K-5 Blazer with a big lift kit and big super swamper tires on it. Not only was it in great shape, but nobody dared mess with it in traffic. Hell, I'd drive a touring bus if it had nice leather seats, nice wood grain dash, and good acceleration/braking.

[Vibe]

In my own opinion-- WRONG!!! James

[ragingfish]

That's just it! They're so big, they're downright dangerous. You can't see around them or through them. And the people who drive them often act as if nothing can hurt them, and drive extremely dangerously.Personally, I'm not a member of the Sierra Club, but I would feel horrible driving a car that gets less than 20 mpg. And the Ford Excursion gets something like 14 mpg. That's absurd. On the smog ratings, the Lincoln Navigator is a 1, on a 1 to 10 scale, 1 being the most polluting vehicles. But hey, these are my OPINIONS.

[Ryan]

I hate SUV. King of the road my (removed)! They don't follow car standards such as bumber placement and fuel MPG since they are considered TRUCKS. They should be forced to follow the same rules as 18 wheelers. 55 mph max, right lane only, stop at weight stations, and pay higher registration fees. That would make people think twice before they buy a 7 passenger car when they live alone and never leave the asphalt!!

[NSimkins]

We're not really saying that the day's of the SUV are going to go away completely. I think people are starting to realize, considering current economic conditions, that they may not be as necessary and are costing them more than anticipated.SUV's will still always be around and end up being used primarily by people who NEED them. IE: to haul cargo, trailers, mass of people, etc.I would have bought a smaller SUV instead of the Vibe, but I would be suffering somewhat less gas mileage and other factors that I can get all in my Vibe.

[KSNeptune]

In my opinion if you need an SUV then get one. Problem is that most SUV owners bought them for the wrong reasons. 95% or more never go off-road. Most never have the 6 or 8 passenger seating available filled up. Most never pull a boat or trailer with them. They got them just because like most of us in low cars they were tired of not being able to see around the monsters, and figured "hey, everyone else has one, so they can't be THAT bad ot unsafe!". I often haul lumber and furniture, so I kept my Nissan Pickup instead of trading it in for my new vibe. But the Vibe is proving to handle "almost" everything I want to carry, so I may yet sell the truck. I don't feel bad about owning that truck though. It gets 20+ mpg all the time, and it's 4 cylinder engine polutes no worse than any other 4 cylinder car available when it was made (1986). Of course, this is just my opinion. I could be wrong.KSNeptune.

[Chris]

I am always of two opinions when this discussion comes up. On one hand I don't like SUV's (my personal and highly biased opinion) because I consider the majority to be "posers" in "Big Ole Truks" who own them not for their utility but because they want the biggest thing on the road. However, if you follow that line of reasoning (and bring it close to home) why would anyone want a Vibe GT with 180hp (or even 130 as in the base as 60 or 90 hp is adequate for most uses) as it's obviously for "posers" who want "way more power than you'd ever need". Of course I don't believe this in relation to the Vibe GT line of reasoning however that makes me a hyprocrite... sigh. I guess what does really bother me about SUV's and "Personal" pick up trucks (you know, the shiny ones that are only driven to and from work) is that, even though their every use is EXACTLY the same as your basic family car, they are not subjected to CAFE (corporate average fuel economy) thus they can be gas and polution pigs but don't have to pay for being pigs. Include your 'Burbans and Tahoes and Avalanches in CAFE and I'll be happy

[ragingfish]

i'm not saying they're going away. i don't see that ever happening. i do, however, sense that the small car is kinda experiencing a "rebirth." people are now finding the benefits of SUVs in small cars, I.e. the vibe, matrix, and, i hesitate to say it, the PT cruiser...so they're ditching big iron for more flexibility, versalitily and improved costs...i agreee 100% if you use a truck or SUV for their real purposes, I.e. construction, etc., then that's totally cool. i hate the people who buy it thinking they're intimidating the rest of us, or the use it as a way to feel better about themselves. that's just absurd...i read somewhere a lot of people buy them just because sitting higher up in a way is a sense of social standing...they get an suv, they sit higher, they think they're god. of course, not all owners are like this. many are responsible, respectful, honest drivers. but there are definitely a share of them who abuse them, driving recklessly, dangerously, and causing more damage then they would in a car.hey, like i said in the start -- this is all my opinons...

[ragingfish]

Well, I wouldn't call it agression. It seems like more of a passion to help bring back small cars. At least that's how I interpret it. But on a more serious note, we need to consider that some of these people may have justified reasons for their "passion." Perhaps someone lost a loved one to a reckless SUV driver...I'm just speculating. I have a hatred for BMW drivers, because a reckless BMW driver cause me to total my Sunfire. I loved that car more than anything...I miss it...and I have no where to funnel my agressions except towards BMW drivers.Now I KNOW that I can't possibly, or realisitcally, hold all BMW drivers accountable for that one a**hole...but it's human nature to associate certain things with bad memories or events. i.e. I have a friend who was sexually assaulted twice...she still hates men...with few exceptions, and is scared of them, and agry at them. She can't help but be afraid of anyone who has things in common with that assaulter. See where I'm coming from? So, perhaps we're all just avid SUV haters...but maybe someone on here has a deeper reason for hating them. I don't. I just hate 'em cause I hate 'em.

[Vibe Rater]

The SUV is already dead. They call them CUV's now.(Crossover Utility Vehicle)

[ngilbert]

quote:the SUV's are not on the way out, trust me on this one.I have to agree, but I think the definition of SUV is changing from all conquering truck based behemoth to minivan based on-road-only tall car-vehicle. Look at all the new "SUV" (my quotation marks) that have come out or coming out: Nissan Murano, Acura MDX, Honda Pilot, Saturn VUE, Ford Escape, Honda CRX, Ford Freestyle, Volvo ????, BMX X5, Mercedes M class, etc.... Of course, these and others are really just cars, high bodies in a predominately front wheel drive vehicle. The manufacturers call them SUV because that's what people want, for whatever the reason. Heck, some people even want to call the Vibe an SUV. (nah!) And let's face it, SUV are a HUGE cash cow for the manufacturers, so you can't blame them for building these things. Heck, even Porsche (!) is making one. Personally, I don't like SUV's. They are bigger than they need to be, use more gas then necessary, are a waste of resources since nearly all of them don't go off-road and actually use it's off-road equipment (if they have any) and some of the other same reasons that people have already brought up. But I do realize that people need and want vehicles that can haul, tow, off-road, etc, so there is a definately a need for them. I don't hold a grudge or have anger towards these folk, all the power to ya! I guess my beef is the clown racing down the expressway jabbing into his cell fone in one hand (hands free isn't cool ya know) and slurping the latte frappachino expresso with extra foam and sprinkles with the other, oblivious to other drivers and road conditions. And then can't figure out why he rolled it going around the bend... "But I have 4 wheel drive!...."Whew! Thanks for letting me vent a little.... Peace.

[ragingfish]

quote:I guess my beef is the clown racing down the expressway jabbing into his cell fone in one hand (hands free isn't cool ya know) and slurping the latte frappachino expresso with extra foam and sprinkles with the other, oblivious to other drivers and road conditions. And then can't figure out why he rolled it going around the bend... "But I have 4 wheel drive!...."Dude...that was priceless!!!!!

[Jay]

It really has to do with safety. Did you ever see a Dodge ram 2500 4X4 quad cab behind you? Sorry... but if a 5000-7000 pound SUV/truck runs into the average vehicle with a bumper that high off the ground your done for. Whoever is in the truck wouldnt even spill their coffee while they ran you over.Theres too many variations in vehicle sizes and weights on the road... thats not even taking into mind all of the "customized" lift kits and monster truck tires these guys put on their already gigantic vehicles. Did you ever see a mini cooper behind a raised Yukon XL? Its funny.Its not the manufacturers fault... its the buyers. The only solution is to regulate bumper height, and weight or size of the vehicle. They have to stop making them bigger at some point. I was looking at an Excursion on the road the other day and with the side-view mirrors... it was crossing the lines on both sides in one lane on the expressway.Saying your buying one of these things "because its safe" is selfish. What about everyone else? That would just turn buying new cars into an arms race... everyone would want to be one up on the other drivers.

[ragingfish]

i think i should go buy bigfoot, and pull up behind an excursion or escalade or yukon...maybe tailgate a little, drive recklessly, and OOPS, sorry, ran you over.ain't so hot anymore, ARE YA!!!!

[shenandoah24]

I get so tickled when I see an Escalade pull up next to me, and then a little 4 foot 6 inch tall woman hops out of it. It looks like she needs a step stool to get into it. That Cracks me up everytime!!!! Then I pop out of my little Vibe, standing 6 feet tall plus 2 extra inches on my shoes, and the little woman gets lost in my shadow

[Sputnik]

quote:In my opinion if you need an SUV then get one. Problem is that most SUV owners bought them for the wrong reasons. 95% or more never go off-road. Most never have the 6 or 8 passenger seating available filled up. I think you're right about this, KSNeptune. I was watching a report on TV about SUVs and they interviewed a woman and asked her "how often do you go off-roading?" Her response was "You mean, like, on the highway?"

[ragingfish]

quote: the interviewed a woman and asked her "how often do you go off-roading?" Her response was "You mean, like, on the highway?"That doesn't say much for the intelligence of the average SUV driver. lol. just kidding guys, i like to poke fun, i mean no harm to anyone who might happen to like SUV's.

[Sputnik]

Well I think she was supposed to be a representative of the "typical" housewife. But you know the media does tend to frame things at times.

[Stang2Vibe]

That there is the problem. The vehicle itself poses no problem to society, it is the person driving it. These little women get on their power kick because now a 4'6" tall woman can go to the mall and get boots that make her 2 feet taller and all of a sudden nobody can tell her what to do. Then she goes home, throws a PMS style fit until hubby forks out the $50,000 for her new land yacht to go on a full out assult on soceity. This is basicly giving them a 3 ton weapon to aim at us. They can't even park the thing let alone back it up. At work, I have to back up loaded truck/trailer combinations that are up to about 50 feet long and can weigh over 40,000 pounds. I have little problem maneuvering around objects, equipment, and other vehicles. These SUV women (and sometimes men) can't back up out of a parking spot at the grocery store or manage to stay in their own lane on the road. This makes the SUV soccer mom the second most dangerous driver on the road. Who is first? "Old man with a hat" is the worst driver on the road. Rounding out the top three is "old lady whose head is below the dashboard". One you see any of these three shady characters on the road, steer well clear of them. If any of them hit you because they can't drive, it is automatically your fault, particularly if you are a younger driver.All this aside, the SUV haters that have been posting here seem that they want to dictate to society what vehicle they can and can't drive. May I ask, what gives you the right and authority to decide for anyone else what kind of vehicle they can purchase/drive? Nobody told you what you HAD to buy, why do you think you can dictate this to someone else? Every person should be allowed to buy what they want, as long as they can pay for it. If it gets 3 MPG on the highway, that is not your problem. Are YOU paying for the gas? NO, so don't complain about it. If you don't want an SUV, then don't buy one. It's that simple. Just because you don't want to go to the party doesn't mean you have the right to spoil it for everyone else.I personally would drive an Abrams M1A1 every day if the government would sell me one and I could get performance mods for it. Worried about me being a menace to society with it? Ok. I'll let you take the turret off of it if it really makes you feel better. I just want to drive it around, not blow up cities with it.

[Stang2Vibe]

And by the way, here in PA, we are required to have a bumper height of not more than 36" from the ground (bottom of the bumper to the ground) and there is a restriction on how high the headlights are allowed to be off the ground as well. The typical solution to these problems are driving lights mounted lower on the vehicle and a chrome bumper that is shaped like an upside down trapezoid that has about 5 inches of its length (in the center) within the regulated height. That dropped down center part of the bumper is usually where the rebel flag liscense plate is mounted. Lol.

[ragingfish]

quote:May I ask, what gives you the right and authority to decide for anyone else what kind of vehicle they can purchase/drive? Nobody told you what you HAD to buy, why do you think you can dictate this to someone else? Every person should be allowed to buy what they want, as long as they can pay for it. If it gets 3 MPG on the highway, that is not your problem. Are YOU paying for the gas? NO, so don't complain about it. If you don't want an SUV, then don't buy one. It's that simple. We're not saying or dictating what vehicles people can drive. What I'm saying is if they can't drive their vehicle of choice responsibly or safely, then yes, they should not be allowed to drive it. It's no different than requiring a CDL to drive a semi. And just as an aside, if you choose to buy a ferarri or SUV that gets 5 mpg, that DOES affect me, because you're overly polluting the air I have to breathe. Yes, I'm polluting too, but not nearly as much as you would be.

[Stang2Vibe]

This is the sort of thing to which I was referring...quote:In my opinion if you need an SUV then get one. Problem is that most SUV owners bought them for the wrong reasons. 95% or more never go off-road. Most never have the 6 or 8 passenger seating available filled up. Most never pull a boat or trailer with them.sentence 1: I agree, but change the word "need" to "want".sentence 2: huh? In whose eyes? Not theirs. They have to drive it, not us so who are we to judge?sentence 3: so what?sentence 4: so what?sentence 5: so what?I'm not seeing a case being made here, just the passing of judgement on others. I know you didn't write it, but it is what I was referring to.

[Stang2Vibe]

Then these ones REALLY burn my...well you know.quote:... why would anyone want a Vibe GT with 180hp (or even 130 as in the base as 60 or 90 hp is adequate for most uses) as it's obviously for "posers" who want "way more power than you'd ever need". LOL!!! 60-90 hp is adequate for most uses as lawn tractors and bumper cars!! Let's be realistic here. If my Vibe only produced the output stated here, my Vibe and I would be road pizza every time I tried to merge onto a highway from an onramp or tried to climb a hill on the freeway. Believe me, I know from experience--I used to own a 94 hp Geo Tracker. And my 180 hp Vibe gets much better fuel economy than the Tracker ever did. BTW---I guess I'm a "poser". I want as powerful of a vehicle as I can afford. Always have, always will.quote:I guess what does really bother me about SUV's and "Personal" pick up trucks (you know, the shiny ones that are only driven to and from work) Whoa--stop right there. What the hell is this? Just because you own a SUV or pickup it should never be clean and you are forbidden to wax it? God forbid that the world should have to endure a shiny SUV or pickup! Oh wait, I see, this all makes sense now because you aren't allowed to drive it to work, either. The transportation Nazis have spoken.quote:... they are not subjected to CAFE (corporate average fuel economy)... Include your 'Burbans and Tahoes and Avalanches in CAFE and I'll be happy And I will be very, very sad . CAFE, in short, could best be described as automotive communism. It should be abolished and is a disgrace. Do you know why trucks and truck-based SUV's aren't included in the average??? Because if they were there would be only 2 categories of vehicles produced--trucks and truck-based SUV's (because demand for and profit from them is very high) and 3-cylinder Geo Metros and electric Honda Civics (because most people can't afford the profitable SUV's and trucks). Every car maker would go out of business because they would only be allowed to produce these 2 types of vehicles. You see, CAFE standards are inherently flawed because they never take into account the VOLUME of sales for a vehicle. Honestly, how many Honda Civics are purchased for every Ford Excursion? 3 or 4, maybe more, right? So at a ratio like this would it actually be fair to the auto industry and the consumers to lump all vehicles produced into the CAFE standards? Well then, following your logic, why don't we average in all commercial trucks and buses too so that the only things that we could buy are Macks and mopeds? If left alone, the free market will average out and (gasp) actually improve the fuel economies all on its own.

[kaybeejay]

Great site: http://poseur.4x4.org/ This explains why most SUV owners should not have SUV's. (read the hate mail, its great)I feel I am qualified to comment here: I am a Civil Engineer and my "specialty" is roadway design. I also am licensed to drive a commerical vehicle in California (buses/trucks/etc). My primary personal vehicle is a Nissan Xterra and my "fun" car is a Vibe GT.Here are my thoughts:1) SUV drivers should be required to pay higher insurance premiums. It only makes sense, considering the amount of damage and accidents that SUV's are involved in compared to normal cars.2) SUV drivers should be required to take a special drivers exam and apply (and pass) for a special drivers license to operate an SUV. Bus and truck drivers have to go thru this - why? Cause bus and truck drivers are operating a top heavy, poor handling, poor braking multiple ton killing machine. It takes special training and special skills to safely operate that. It only makes sense to require a special license. You need a special license to ride a motorcycle....why? cause its different than a car. SUV's are also different from cars - and should they should be treated accordingly.Hopefully with these added restrictions - SUV owners will think twice about getting one. Now, there will always be owners who truly/honestly need an SUV (for work or for towing). They will have no problems goging thru the extra hassle of a license process. ITs the fringe owners who just buy it -"for style" who will be detered. When I drive a bus or truck, I drive it differently than when I drive my Vibe. When I drive my Xterra - I basically drive it like I am behind the wheel of a bus.Why did I get an Xterra?I am part of these clubs ( http://www.nccxterra.com and http://www.xterraownersclub.com ). I actually enjoy going off-roading and exploring the grand reaches of nature and land in California. Getting off the pavement is a great feeling and coming back and parking your (VERY VERY) dirty truck in the driveway feels great too.

[DABEAR95]

BS, BS, BS. My Golf has 90HP. People buy horsepower, but drive torque. My Golf has 165ft/lbs of torque at 1900RPM. I don't even have to use the accelerator to take of from a stop, or shift into 2nd!!(With a chip and injectors you can have ~ 260ft/lbs at 2,300 RPM! = smoke tires from a roll with only 150HP)I just wanted to point out that you don't need a ton of HP to get around.With that being said, to each their own.I drive a Vibe GT, Golf TDI (50= MPG on the highway), and a 95 Camaro that gets around 15MPG. And I will own a truck when I buy a house. If I wanted, I would get the biggest gas guzzling made(I won't, but I could). I don't care what you drive, I only worry about what I drive. There is a point when I would make it my business (mass polluter), but for the most part to each their own!Jason

[ragingfish]

I saw a quote in an Associate Press article that made me ecstatic.Quote »For much of the last 10 years, the domestic Big Three automakers have focused on building profitable pickups and sport-utility trucks. But now, with imports such as Honda and Toyota dominating the car side of the industry, all the domestics are devoting more effort to their cars. YAYYYYY!!!!

[drunkenmaxx]

i hate the stupid lady w/the soccerball on the back window who rides (removed) going 80 mph, just because she can.

[MailGuy!]

I almost wanted a ford exploder once. Then one day there was one riding my a$$ on the highway. Some woman who just had to be somewhere in a hurry... Anyway I got fed-up and slammed on the brakes doing 75 around a corner with the exploder about 3 ft behind me. Wow... I thought for sure they were going to die. They slammed the brakes and that thing bobbed and weaved like a yacht in a hurricane. I thought for sure they would flip into a mangled mess with the way that thing lost control. She got it under control and backed off. Needless to say I would never purchase one because:A. they don't handle for crap.B. I like driving passed gas stations.C. my Vibe has more ground clearance than an exploder.by the way I don't make it a habit of doing that anymore. I really thought they were going to die. And by the look on their faces, they did too.

[Fformula88]

Remind me not to tailgate you Mailguy! SUV's are on the way out? My trip to Detroit for the Auto Show made it appear like SUV's are picking up steam. Even with all the impressive sports cars on display, over half of the automakers there were showing off a concept or soon to be produced super-gigantic Hummer sized SUV to catch the wave GM started with that pavement pounder.I am all for people's rights to buy whatever they want. But the automakers should also be taking some responsibility to make those vehicles as safe as possible, both for ocupants and other vehicles. Most of these SUV's for sale today have safety built in as an afterthought, and were designed to squash the other guy in an accident instead of absorbing some of the collision force itself.People are going to continue to buy huge vehicles. Many Americans like huge vehicles and will want them even with higher gas prices. Hybrid powertrains will start making them more efficient too. But the rest of us shouldn't have to feel like shark bait on the roads!As for further drivers education, everyone should have to attend this. Not just SUV owners. There are an equal number of bad and dangerous drivers in cars as SUV's on the roads. Instead of special licensing requirements to drive an SUV, how about we just require everyone to receive proper training to operate a passenger vehicle in the country, Car, light truck, SUV, etc. The highways would be a lot safer no matter what the vehicle style of the month is.

[MailGuy!]

The only one thing that I like about SUV's is the fact that they provide the profits needed to design and produce really good small cars and sell them at decent prices.

[redlava]

Most SUV's suck. Aspecially the land barges like the Excursion and Suburban. I usually flip off every Hummer driver I see. If gas goes above $2.00 again this summer like it is projected large SUV sales will drop by half or more I bet. Which is good becuase 75% of the SUV owners don't need them and I laugh and laugh everytime they have to put $50 worth of gas in them every week.

[Kangaroooski]

What scares me about SUV's is when I am on my motorcycle. People have trouble seeing me (cold, hard facts) but atleast with a car they are easier to avoid because there is less of them to get around. Want to freak out have a SUV pull out in front of you while your going 55mph.