Matrix vs. Vibe thread over at BITOG.

[Cougar Vibe]

Somebody started a "Why buy a Vibe, the Matrix is obviously better" thread over at Bob is the Oil Guy.Here's the initial post:Thoughts from Oklahoma City auto-show this past weekend. The Matrix and Vibe are supposedly vehicle twins. But, considering a number of purchasing reasons below, why would anyone buy GM's Vibe?o The base Matrix retails for over a $1000 less.o The Matrix gets a "much better than average" rating from Consumer Reports, v. "better than average" for the Vibe.o Matrix has 60K powertrain warranty v. 36K warranty on the Vibe, if I'm reading it right.o The Toyota name will have significant attraction when re-selling the vehicle relative to Pontiac's, i.e., GM's lousy reputation.Note here that young folks WANT to be associated with Toyota, as in they will be perceived as smart, savy buyers, v. the dunces (like me) who buy American iron.Selling the Matrix used, I think, would be a much easier task, with more buyer traffic, and I'll bet, significantly higher resell values. Why suffer reselling? With a Toyota, people will come to me and I'll be negotiating from strength, v. hoping "someone will call today."Again, why would anyone buy GM's Vibe? Note: the Matrix is in ready supply, with no waiting period like a few other Toyotas. Thoughts?So, thoughts?

[Mrizzle05]

Well first of all... wat kinda website is "bobistheoilguy" anyways???Second... Yeah the matrix may sell more and may sell for less SOMETIMES, but they have a higher insurance rating. and they dealerships suck in cali. they think cuz your young and lookin at a car you wont buy so they ignore you and are really rude. so im not a toyota fan anymore... i mean the matrix is nice but i wouldnt buy a toyota car ever now.And I love the vibe body style anyways!!!

[Atomb]

i'd say that so many consumer products that are mass produced (like cars) are susceptible to statistics....so each person's experience with any product can be so different to anybody else's.as a result, arguing over which is better when they both have the same guts is not very productive. Even arguing re-sale value is irrelevant as we all know that the condition of the vehicle is what matters most in the end.i really find arguments like this immature considering they are regarding pieces of metal that are for the most part identical and money pits no matter which one you buy!

[ColonelPanic]

My thoughts: I'm glad I didn't buy a Matrix. Any of these junk components that died on my car could have easily found their way into a Matrix, Corolla, whatever. And the oh so friendly local Toyota dealer's service department has made it pretty clear to me that the only reason they exist is apparently so they can do oil changes. Because we all know, nothing EVER breaks on a Toyota! Why should they actually have to WORK on a car? It's a friggin' TOYOTA for cryin' out loud! So needless to say, I'd probably be in the looney bin about right now after all of the problems I've had with this car couple with dealing with the Toyota dealer's arrogance!At least with GM, they'll work on this lemon. They can't fix much of anything on it, but at least they make an effort. They seem more down to earth to me - they just don't have that attitude like nothing will ever go wrong with the car because they certainly know that isn't the case. This is what really makes the Vibe better than the Matrix - the dealers!Of course I'm sure that the experience varies from dealer to dealer, and this is just my experience... They can keep their stuff, I won't be buying it. I'll keep rooting for the underdog that isn't so stuck on themselves - because nobody can build a perfect car and it's pointless to go around thinking that you have.

[Merzbow]

They do sell for less and resell for more but honestly I don't buy a car intending on selling it in 3 years...I buy a car becuase I like it and I will try my best ot make it last forever. If you're the type of person that buys a car because of it's resale value than get the helck out of here, your opinion doesn't matter (removed)! Cars to me are a way of life and to me, safety features, resale value, and versatility are WAAAAAAAAY in the back of my head as far as choosing a car I like...I go for style, power, handling, comfort, appearance and anythign related, MAYBE versatility, I would not buy a Viper as my only car due to lack of storage but it is not as big of a concern to me as appearance.

[Psychobroker]

Well, for one - Vibes are made at the NUMMI plant in Fremont, CA, while Matrixes are made in Canada. No offense to Canadians, but I just prefer to buy something made in my home country, let alone my home state.

[ZubenElGenubi]

Some points to consider regarding those comments from bitog..The base Matrix retails for over a $1000 less.True, but Toyota dealerships will not discount their car nearly as much as GM dealerships. Also, packages and accessories tend to cost more with Toyota than GM.The Matrix gets a "much better than average" rating from Consumer Reports, v. "better than average" for the Vibe.And we know how valuable their advice is. This rating may come more from the dealership experience than the vehicle. Remember, CR gets their feedback from "consumers"...not exactly the most reliable people on the planet. Matrix has 60K powertrain warranty v. 36K warranty on the Vibe, if I'm reading it right.Partly true. From Toyota's website, Basic coverage is 36 months/ 36,000 miles; Powertrain is 60/60,000; Rust-through is 60 months.From Pontiac's website, Basic coverage is 36/36,000; Powertrain is 36/36,000; Rust-through is 72/100,000.Of course, this only affects resale value between 36K and 60K miles.The Toyota name will have significant attraction when re-selling the vehicle relative to Pontiac's, i.e., GM's lousy reputation.That's a generalization. I'm sure there are parts of the country (Midwest, for example) where GM has a better reputation than Toyota, if merely by brand loyalty.Selling the Matrix used, I think, would be a much easier task, with more buyer traffic, and I'll bet, significantly higher resell values. Why suffer reselling? With a Toyota, people will come to me and I'll be negotiating from strength, v. hoping "someone will call today."Again, higher resale values based on higher selling prices. **I wonder which model depreciates more off its average actual selling price?**Again, why would anyone buy GM's Vibe? Note: the Matrix is in ready supply, with no waiting period like a few other Toyotas. Thoughts?I'm sure the Vibe is in ready supply as well. If this person would put as much effort in the negotiation process as he does in this post, I bet he would get a great deal on a Vibe...and have a few dollars left over to mod it up as well.I guess I'm preaching to the choir here...

[jake75]

Got my new Vibe dirt cheap ($5,000 off) in 1/2003 after discount, rebate, and enhanced GM Card rebate. If the Matrix had been even close that probably would have been my choice for reasons of better warranty and resale. Chevy is offering 5 yr/60,000 mile powertrain warranties on at least some of its cars. Don't understand why the same is not on the Vibe. On average, Toyotas DO have better resale - just a fact of life. Perception is reality. Learn to live with it.

[goodvibe]

The guys not entirely wrong. Resale and warranty are fine reasons. Price is offset for the most part by content and you can often buy a vibe for less to offset some or all of the resale value. They're mechanically the same so he's way off base there.

[joatmon]

Vibe vs Matrix debate may have some merit as the two brands diverge over time, but initially they were so similar the only real difference was the external styling, which is a matter of personal preference. when I first saw a Matrix I thought it looked funny and I would have been unhappy if I had to settle for one instead of a Vibe. I'm used to them now, and see the two cars as interchangeable. I tend to keep cars till there is no resale value left regardless of the logo on the hood, so that part of the debate doesn't affect me

[TRDman]

Speaking personally, my family ended up buying the Vibe over the Matrix (which we looked at) because A: the Toyota dealer would give us nothing (sic) for our trade-in, while the GM dealer actually gave us MORE than it was worth (we got, no lie, $9000 off the price with the trade-in and the GM employee discount promotion they were having at the time) and, B: we could actually find a Vibe we were looking for at the GM dealer, whereas the Toyota dealer would had to have ordered a Matrix, which would have taken 6 weeks to get. Will the Vibe be worth less when I eventually resell it? Sure it will, but the likelihood is that there are so many other factors involved in a trade-in that it won't matter all that much. Zuben: that seems right with the Consumer Reports rankings. Still, my family's purchased Toyotas for years but have, in the last couple, switched over to Honda (Acura, specifically) in a large part because their dealers are terrible and their reliability seems to be deteriorating.

[Atomic]

Quote, originally posted by Psychobroker »Matrixes are made in Canada. No offense to Canadians, but I just prefer to buy something made in my home country, let alone my home state. No offense taken here.I agree whole heartedly, and probably would have got a Matrix (ONLY because they are built less than 100 miles from me), but the Toyota salesman just seemed too smarmy, AND it was cheaper to get the VIBE.Oh yeah, the VIBE looks better too, and I got tired of being classed with the "ricer" tag.

[Merzbow]

lol yeah rice tags are irritating.Also if you had a Toyota you'd have to hear a mouth full from everyone about not supporting the US economy (for those in US). So you get a great car and also help out the economy even if just a small amount

[4azdmunky]

Atom is right, statistics are only as good as the metric being measured. I can produce statistics that make my hairy (removed) look appealing, god bless the internet.

[mikey00]

If you dig into the Consumer reports numbers, for 2005 the Matrix and the Vibe were tied for all 15 categories except for "Power Equipment". Must be that GM radio.As far as price goes, with the GM incentives the Vibe has a much lower final price. That was my main reason for purchasing the Vibe.The Matrix does have a few things going for it though. The Toyota name, a better re-sale value, engine imobilizer standard, and it doesn't have the Vibe "soft/thin"paint issues.

[jasonvibe]

The Matrix does NOT come with fog lights standard and a few other minor items for some. Which actually makes the pricing closer than you think. The Toyota dealers purposly keep the Matrix in short supply around me. Thus they attempt to get top $$$. Plus I think for AWD they prefer to sell you a RAV4. I suspect the Matrix is easier to find in Canada. I parked my Vibe next to a Matrix. It actually looks bigger on the outside. Which is fine for me. With my GM card and employee discount I had to get the Vibe. Lets just say the total amount I got off > 2 x the emp. discount. I keep my cars so long. Trade in is never an issue. I have owned ever type of car/truck...V8, V6, 4 cyl. etc.(yes, I am old). This is a very practical vehicle. The only operational negative is... I would not pull a 1000# trailer with it. The best thing is , once out of warranty, I can go to 2 sources for OEM parts if needed. Toyota is surely cheaper.

[2Hot2Handel]

ok so, i have an opinion about this. the vibe has a much better looking front (like the grill), and yea, toyota dealerships in CA are horrible. they don't even want to negotiate any pricing cuz they feel like since they are toyota, they are the best. they lie to you about rebates and pricing. i for one am pretty happy with my vibe. i am almost at 12k (in 9 months) and it's still awesome. plus don't you get more features standard with the vibe??