Door Ajar Light - dealer having problems fixing

[rickhow]

2004 Vibe (love it). 7000 miles. Noticed that when car is off, parked, the door ajar light (door/tailgate/hatch window is open light) is on, very very dim. So dim you can not see it when parked outside, only in garage. When you open a door, the light lights up fully, but close the door, it stays on dim. When car is on/running the light works normally and is NOT on at all, not even dim, when a door is open. Dealer said was drivers door switch (I knew it wasn't when I pushed it hard with hand the dim light still was on). Replaced the switch, when I picked it up it still was on dim when car was off. Now he wants car for another full day to try to find out what is wrong. Any experience/clues here?

[GMJAP]

It's most likely a problem with the Multi-Function-Alarm-Module. This little thing sits under the fuse block behind the dash compartment to the left of the steering wheel. It gets the signals from the door switches and decides to turn the door ajar icon on/off as well as the dome lights.If it was in the door switches, the dome light would probably be affected too. I'll have to check the schematics in the svc manual tonight.

[rickhow]

Thanks, appreciate any help you can give me...I would love nothing more than to take it to the dealer and say..."this is what it is", they have had 3 tries and the light is still on , and all they have done is replaced one door switch.

[joatmon]

The door ajar light normally has 12V from the DOME fuse. THe other side of the light is a ground to light the light. THis ground signal can come from several sources. If the light comes on dim, I would suspect one of those sources. These sources are:1. All/each of the door switches except the drivers door aare directly connected to the door ajar light, including the hatch and hatch glass open switches.2. Integration relay, or perhaps GM calls it the "multifunction alarm module" involved in power door lock control, and also in the stuff that makes it beep when you leave the lights on or key in when you open the driver door. One of the outputs of this is tied to the door ajar light and (see below) to the dome lights3. Dome/dimmer switch and dome lights. If in the Door position (not on or off) then the dome lights and the dimmer switch are connected to the door ajar light.4. The driver's door switch does nto connect directly to the door ajar light. That switch is only an input to the integration relay/multifunction alarm module (MFAM). Open that door, the switch tells the MFAM the door is open, the MFAM tells the door ajar light to turn on. I would suspect this switch least, since it's buffered by the MFAM.Does setting the dome/dimmer switch to either ON or OFF have any effect on the door ajar light? If not then it probably isn't the dome lights, and also probably not the dimmer switch. If it does have an effect, then maybe those parts are more suspect.Could unplug the MFAM, and see if that has an effect. If not, then it's not the culprit. Not sure where it is or how hard it is to get to, but most stuff up under the dash is hard to get to.edit, got interrrupted while typing this up, GMJAP got a good answer in before I got back, but I don't feel like editing this to take into account what he said

Attached files 021il.pdf (50.6 KB) 

[GMJAP]

Quote, originally posted by joatmon »edit, got interrrupted while typing this up, GMJAP got a good answer in before I got back, but I don't feel like editing this to take into account what he said Dontcha hate it when that happens? I once got interrupted and about 3 people posted by the time I finished. rickhow-An additional note, if you decide to try disconnecting the MFAM: It's the kinda teal (blue-green) colored thing. It has two connectors, but one's really hard to get to and I don't remember which one the instrument panel icon goes to.

[rickhow]

I played with on/off dome/dimmer control...has absolutely no effect on the door ajar light. Light is still on (dim) when car is off..but works fine when car is running.

[GMJAP]

I checked the service manuals tonight, and it's possible it could be a switch too. The MFAM and switches are all wired together into the instrument panel cluster.A third possibility is the anti-theft module, if you have the alarm system option.I'd have the dealer check the MFAM.

[tnpartsguy]

possible bad cluster. We've seen other cars doing similar things.

[rickhow]

Well I take the car back on Wednesday (next week) so we will see. I will definitely be mentioning the MFAM. I do NOT have the optional alarm system. I also tried each door/tailgate/rear hatch glass, individually, one at a time, to ensure the dome lights responded correctly. They do. This makes me believe the door switches are sending the correct info when the doors/hatch are opened or closed..so it is likely the MFAM not handling the information correction...or worse..as someone mentioned, a bad cluster (I hope not..I have visions of a rattling dash after all this is over). I would imagine the best debug would be to swap out the MFAM see if it fixes problem.

[GMJAP]

Good luck and please let us know you finally out.

[Josh]

My vibe has 800 miles on it...it has the same problem, it just happened though, like since yesterday. I drove it from Reno to Seattle and I KNOW it wasn't on, it is now, dim.The only thing that I can think of that changed is the dealer detailed the car (i.e. pressure washed the engine compartment)Pisses me off, I printed this thread out, I will bring to dealer and see what they say...

[Josh]

I went to the garage and popped the hood, opened the power center cover...totally dry. I pulled the 15A fuse labeled "dome", that killed the door ajar lamp in instrument panel. I then measured 862mA or .8A across the fuse pins...seems like quite the draw...Couldn't find any TSB's or anything on matrixowners.com

[Josh]

I have a service appointment this coming Tuesday. Lets see what they find. I called a few Toyota and Pontiac dealer service departments today in the Seattle area inquiring about our problem...NO ONE has heard about it. A couple of dealerships, both Toy and GM actually had me hang on while they looked to see if there was a TSB or any service bulletins, none were found.I will let everyone know what they find. BTW, I am taking my car to Clyde Revord Motors in Everett, WA

[Josh]

So, since I don't drive my car to work, it sits in the garage...I got home about 5pm today and went in the garage to see if the light was on...lo and behold, IT WASN'T!But...I went to start the car, and the low battery cutoff circuit was "engaged", the battery wasn't dead or even low, I started the car and had to reset all of my radio stations...lets see what happens over the weekend...

[joatmon]

Quote, originally posted by Josh »I went to the garage and popped the hood, opened the power center cover...totally dry. I pulled the 15A fuse labeled "dome", that killed the door ajar lamp in instrument panel. I then measured 862mA or .8A across the fuse pins...seems like quite the draw...looking at the wiring diagram I don't see where there should be .8A draw on the dome circuit with the lights out and the doors closed. Seems like there should be about none, not almost an amp. Not sure how long it would take to drain the battery at that rate, I have no idea what's going on in your car, but I am curious. Maybe some bigger issue that has only the one symptom of the door ajar light.

[Josh]

Now that you say that...I MAY have had a door open...

[joatmon]

round numbers, that current is a little over 10 watts, equivalent to two 5 watt dome lights and a door ajar LED? Maybe you did have the door open. If I get a chance I will measure mine this weekend, door open and closed, to get numbers for comparison.

[Josh]

Checked again this morning, no lamp on...looks good so far. Jeez, do I really want to bring it too the dealer now? I am thinking not...The only "other" thing I can think of is that a door switch got wet or something when the dealer detailed the car, there was no lamp on the whole trip from Reno, it was on AFTER I dropped it off and they washed it, but like I said before, the power center was dry...BTW your Floyd wish you were here avatar is cool...

[rickhow]

Josh,Was your light on ALL the time? Mine was only on when the engine was off. It was dim..but noticed the past couple of days as I wait for my appt with the dealer (for his 3rd try at fixing) that it is getting brighter now. And I also had a day or two where it didn't light up..but then it came back. did you try the MFAM like was suggested earlier in this thread? If you do go to the dealer, let me know what they find/did so I might be able to help my dealer figure this out. I was just gonna disconnect the damn thing (I don't need the door ajar light) but if you pull the fuse, etc..it also affects the dome light and that I need.Rick

[Josh]

Mine was on all the time, it did get brighter overnight...I just got home and it is still off.

[rickhow]

This disaster continues. I took the car to the dealer late Tuesday so he could have it to work on first thing Wednesday. When I did, I mentioned the MFAM as a possible culprit. I mentioned I found info on it on the internet (here). When I called today to see if car was ready, they told me they have NOT solved the problem and are going to try the part I mentioned (the MFAM) that I found on the net. I asked if they had tried one from a new/used Vibe on the lot, to see if it solved the problem, they said no they didn't think to do that. Instead they were overnight shipping one to the dealer to try Tomorrow. I asked if they were confident it would fix the problem. They said, "we are just trying what you found on the internet, we have no idea". If this does NOT fix the problem, I was wondering if I would be hurting anything to just live with it. Is it power consumption enough to eventually run the battery down? Is there any chance/way I could just disconnect it (i don't need the darn door ajar icon)? I don't want to get into the dealer messing around with cluster replacement (likely rattles), and living my life at the dealership trying door switches, etc. I was thinking of going to a Toyota dealership (we have 2 locally) and getting it fixed, then sending Pontiac the bill . I hope it is the MFAM...can't imagine what else.

[ColonelPanic]

Quote, originally posted by rickhow »I was thinking of going to a Toyota dealership (we have 2 locally) and getting it fixed, then sending Pontiac the bill LOL! If you have the cash laying around and you don't need it back, you could try that. Otherwise, I doubt that GM would be willing to reimburse you. Hang in there for just a while longer, hopefully they'll get you squared away.

[ragingfish]

Quote, originally posted by rickhow »I asked if they had tried one from a new/used Vibe on the lot, to see if it solved the problem, they said no they didn't think to do that.I'm pretty sure it is not customary for dealers to hack up new cars for parts as part of the repair / diagnostic process. Frankly, I would never buy a new car if that WAS the case, not knowing if it had ever been "harvested" for parts.Quote »Is there any chance/way I could just disconnect it (i don't need the darn door ajar icon)?It's a deeply integrated part of the cluster, so I highly doubt it alone could be disabled.Quote »I don't want to get into the dealer messing around with cluster replacement (likely rattles),The cluster is VERY easy to replace, and is very unlikely to introduce any new rattles.Quote »I was thinking of going to a Toyota dealership (we have 2 locally) and getting it fixed, then sending Pontiac the bill .I'm assuming that was a joke, because as was said above, Pontiac WILL NOT reimburse you for going to a Toyota dealer for repair. Your warranty does not cover service by non-GM dealers. Also, there have been reports of Toyota dealers giving Vibe owners blank looks because they don't understand (nor are willing to accept) that the Vibe is a Matrix cousin.If it isn't a bad door switch, or the MAM, then I would likely suspect a cluster flaw, as the chance of a short in wiring if the wiring has never been messed with is not likely.

[joatmon]

I can understand the dealer, but I don't like it. They probably don't want to swap one from a car that is currently ok, because if they somehow break the part then they have yours to fix still but now they have one they can't sell till its fixed too.It seems to me that they should have someone who can look at the wiring diagrams and come up with a logical way to troubleshoot the problem, and if they don't have someone there, I would hope GM has a resource their service techs can call and ask. But apparently they don't have either the staff or the resource, if they are relying on customers to look up answers on the internet. If they replace the MFAM and it fixes the problem, then be sure to tell them to send a portion of their warranty reimbusement to GMJAP. edit 7/16/2008 to upload the 07 matrix dome light schemataic for reference elsewhere, this does not really apply to this thread, but might be handy reference

Attached files em03510.pdf (39.1 KB) 

[ColonelPanic]

Quote, originally posted by joatmon »I would hope GM has a resource their service techs can call and ask. Yep, they do have such a resource, and the dealer has had to utilize said resource numerous times with my car... So sucha thing does exist!

[scherry2]

I remember seeing dim lights like you describe on clusters in the GM trucks some times it was in the cluster other times they had a wire pinched (not totally pinched but just the edge of the wire. it sounds like its grounded somewhere.

[ColonelPanic]

Hmm, come to think of it, sometimes if you look close enough, and you really, really have to be looking, my air bag light glows ever so faintly every now and then when engine is running. I thought originally it may have been the illumination bleeding over from the gauges, thus the illumination led's were lighting up the indicator, not the air bag indicator led itself, but it would stay on if you turned the dimmer all the way down, thus the gauge lighting was completely off. The only other indicator on was the headlamps on indicator, I'll try to start it up with my auto light control disabled and see if it still does it. Woo hoo! That's probably gonna suck trying to get the dealer to figure this one out. ok guys, close all of the garage doors, cover the windows up with black plastic, fire up this piece of junk and squnit! you may see it! heh. It hasn't done it for a while, but I'm guessing since it is intermittent, I have a problem. Let's hope it's just with the cluster, otherwise if I start having air bag issues, god...

[Baltovibe]

Quote, originally posted by rickhow »I played with on/off dome/dimmer control...has absolutely no effect on the door ajar light. Light is still on (dim) when car is off..but works fine when car is running.The only time I got my door ajar light to faintly light (with the car totally off and all doors closed), was when the interior light switch was in the "off" position. It does not light in the "on" mode or "auto" mode.

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[rickhow]

It continues to grow worse...worse Service I have ever had in my over 40 years of car ownership.Recall, the car was in the dealer on Tuesday afternoon. They had to wait until Thurs morn to get the MFAM. I called Thursday afternoon for status...about 1:30pm. Was told by the service manager car was in shop being worked on, would call me when ready. At 4:15, not knowing if I was gonna have a car or not, was progress being made, did I need to make arrangements to pick it up some how (I only have the one car in the shop), I called again. Manager was not available but another person told me it was still in shop. I said I needed to know if I would have a car tonight (Thurs) or not..he said he had no idea, the Manager would call me when ready. I never heard a word, and it is now Fri morn. Not so much as a phone call to say "we need the car longer, is that okay?". They just kept it, like they owned it, without a word of "permission" from me that I didn't need the car. Apparently the MFAM did NOT fix the problem..but that is just apparently on my part. I do not like the fact that they can't fix this thing, nor that the problem exists, but these things happen. But I HATE the fact that the Service Dept does not communicate, does not ask me anything about my own transportation needs, and just keeps the car for 3 days without a word or a phone call.I'm calling this morning and simply telling them I will be there today about 1:00. I either pick up my Vibe fixed, or not fixed (I don't care if the light burns forever and kills the battery it is not my problem any longer), or a loaner.Yes I was joking about taking to Toyota and expecting Pontiac to pay the bill...but NO I am not joking about taking it to Toyota. This Pontiac dealer has just been TERRIBLE and has a bad attitude. Matthews Pontiac/Cadillac/GMC/Buick, Binghamton, New York.

[ragingfish]

Take the car to a different Pontiac dealer, and report the dealer to pontiac customer service.

[GMJAP]

Sorry to hear that, rickhow. That really blows.I'm out of suggestions as to what it could be. (No warranty reimbursements for me....lol. That seemed the most likely candidate, but I'm just a guy with a service manual. Besides, I'm still way ahead on what I've got from this site versus what I've managed to help with ) Good luck dealing with that. If you ever do get it fixed, please let us know what the problem was. I'm really curious.

[joatmon]

Since he hasn't heard from the dealer, he doesn't know if the replacement MFAM didn't fix the prob, if they ever got a MFAM to swap in, if they shorted something out and his car was a total loss in the fire, if a chunk of blue ice fell out of the sky and caved in the roof, if they somehow put the engine in backwards trying to fix the door ajar light, if hell spawned armies of undead poured out a a crack in the earth and stole it, etc.

[rickhow]

Okay everyone, here is the FINAL solution. I DID call the dealer early this morning and said basically I will be there at 12:30ish, I want either my car (with light fixed or not fixed, I don't care which), OR something to drive while you fix it. I also told them I was boggled by the fact they kept the car overnight (3rd night) without so much as a phone call to tell me they were going to do so. He, the Service Manager , said he knew I had another Pontiac to drive so he didn't bother to call me. I told him A) it is not his business if I do or do not have another Pontiac, b) for his info I sold the other Pontiac (sunfire) 2 weeks ago and do NOT have transportation.I showed up at 12:30, and low and behold, there it was fixed..after 3 tries and after 3 days on the 3rd try. They never could solution it themself, and had to call Pontiac Tech Support. It turned out it was EITHER (and they honestly don't know which fixed the problem) the replacement of the rear wiper control diode (so they replaced the entire rear wiper control) or the harness right next to the control which goes to the cluster (which they rewrapped in tape as it might have been touching the diode).I have no paperwork yet to see what it says, they will mail me the paperwork.And upon parting the manager said "for your patience we washed your car for you". i LOVE my Vibe...but since we only have one pontiac dealer within over 100 miles, my next one will be the Matrix (as we have two Toyota dealerships).Thanks all!!!!!!

[Jim M]

HELP !!!!!!!!!! What was it EXACTLY that was the fix for this? Any idea how I can self-repair? I have the 2004 Vibe Base / Salsa / Moon & Tunes and just finished with a $180 ordeal at the dealer to fix the sunroof leak. @!#@!#!@ 'S didn't know about the TSB on the problem and somehow that was MY fault? I love the Vibe - just not the dealer in Syracuse, NY

[rcnut]

So I had this same problem today, a day after I had pressure washed the wife's Vibe. For sure I wanted to blame her for this problem but later decided to seriously take a look at it and landed here on this forum.Thanks to whoever posted the wiring schematic for this area. I checked all the door switches and found them to be dry and hidden behind the rubber boots that were intact and not damaged in anyway leading me to believe they were fine. I decided then that it had to be one of the two switches in the rear lift gate. When I opend the gate, the bottom part of the interior trim panel on the gate was wet. I pulled the panel off to expose the wire harnesses, one leading to the gate switch. The connector was soaking wet. I separated the connector and blew it dry with compressed air, plugged it back in, and voila, problem solved. I thought if no has already solved this, I would share my findings.If you know where the connector is, all you need to do is pull the small rectangular access panel in the middle of the trim panel off and reach in and down to feel the connector. It's not easy to do if you have big hands, but at least feel if it is wet or not. Not sure why Pontiac decided to wrap the connector in foam, but they did and that was wet too.

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[Burns1210]

Door ajar light came on, very dim. Popped the access panel off the rear hatch, had some wetness down there. Hooked up my shop vac to blow air, stuck the hose down the hole - no more light. Woo hoo!