poor vibe design?

[Atomb]

background:I have aftermarket rims (dealer installed) which required hub sleeves (found out after i bought the car) which were a problem when the dealer forgot to put them on (!) but since haven't been an issue.the car has 35,000km on it and over the last 5,000 km i've noticed increased noise (wuah, wuah, wuah...) from the tires at all speeds. The tires have been rotated religiously as many posted problems with the stock conti tires on this site...and lately i've noticed increased steering wheel shimmy at various speeds that is intermitant but mostly present.i finally decided that i needed new tires so i went to a place referred to me by a good friend. the guy there pointed out that the wear on the tires was uneven (front and back) not only from inside to outside but also around the circumference. He immediately pointed out that there was an alignment problem and that the car was 'too new' to show this type of problem! He suggested i let the dealer look at it and get the whole alignment issue dealt with while still under warranty before he would mount new tires.the interesting thing..he said that there may even be an issue with the suspension?!?! the shocks are too weak and not holding the tire to the road properly?!?!? any comments?Current:I brought the vibe into the dealer today and explained the situation. all 4 tires showing definite wear on inside part of tread both across and in circumference. the tech even wrote 'obvious alignment issues' on the work order!I just got a call from the dealer. the 'alignment technician' has informed the tech rep that the alignment is 'fine' and the tires have more than 50% of life left on them! i explained the increased noise and shimmy and the fact that the tire guy SHOWED me the various tread depths around the circumference of the tire....their response:"well, this car is designed with extreme negative camber on the rear wheels to enhance cornering. it is almost identical in set up to the cadillac catera...." I repeated "and what about all the shimmying in the steering wheel and noise?" to which they replied "oh, i bet you feel it in the steering wheel but that's the design of the car and there's nothing i can do about that."what do you all think?

[Mr. Poopypants]

Smells like BS to me. It just seems like GM service departments don't want to deal with the problems of the Vibe. Although, I do believe the negative rear camber, I have seen it on all Vibe models.

[sloth]

I would definately look at the alignment. Mine was way off, and it was the front-driver side so they couldn't blame me for hitting the curb when parking. Unfortunately they didn't cover it under warranty though. I put the tires that wore badly back on about a month ago, and my steering wheel has a lot of vibration at 60mph+, so I think the bad wear on them are causing the shimmy.

[joatmon]

Quote, originally posted by Atomb »"well, this car is designed with extreme negative camber on the rear wheels to enhance cornering. Here is the rear alignment data from the 2003 Matrix manual, I think the same numbers apply to a Vibe. One to two degrees off vertical doesn't sound "extreme" to me, but I am not an alignment expert.

Attached files

[nismo]

I would thiink that negative camber would be good for the front, not for the back. Even then, I have a slight positve camber on my ride right now, I gotta get an alignment really soon. So, we shall see how much of a difference it will make. And my wheels that were on my car (see picture for wheels) had uneven tread wear on them.Inder

[Atomb]

update;i went to the dealer and i had to talk to a mechanic regarding a strange click in my brakes the first time i apply them going forward (after braking while going backward)...but that's another story.this was the same mech. that worked on my alignment, so i asked what the deal was...he explained that the driver side was toe'd in and he had to re-align!! (just like yours, sloth!)so why did the tech rep say nothing was wrong (and the work order says nothing was done), but the mech says there was???so, he re-aligned and explained that the rear camber is -1.5deg...which according to the specs provided by joatman (thanks!) is within spec.he explained that they have had a lot of vibe customers in regarding tire wear and that the vibes are known in the shop as 'tire-eaters'. also the cadillac catera....so that's where that refernece came from earlier with the tech rep.i took the car out on the highway at lunch and it was noticable better but the tires are worn now and the "wuah, wuah.." noise is there and there is some vibration.tomorrow i get new michelin hydroedges put on and i'm getting the referred tire guy to check the alignment also....just incase.

[sloth]

I think they figured I'd have 12 ft of drift per mile with the alignment mine was in. They ended up having to look all over town to get enough spacers to fix it.

[ragingfish]

Could it just be crappy tires???

[DavidPIL]

Hey...I don't really know how this applies but I had the Dunlop SP9000 tires as OEM. Needed an A/S tire because of the occasional snow/slush we get. Also had noticed the tires were getting loud so I thought I should change em.The tire place noticed the outter edges were becoming feathered and the tires were starting to cup. This after only 11,000 miles. Got the tires changed and had an alignment done. I don't remember the exact numbers but the fronts were toed in too much.It's very easy to notice the negative camber. Drive over a rock road that's near black asphault (like at a state park or vacant lot). After driving over the rocky road, drive on the asphault, you'll see your tracks (tread) is wider toward the inside.What I do now to help even out the wear is to, every other rotation/balance, have the tires turned and remounted on the other side of the car (I have directional tires). This way they wear more evenly. I also get a yearly alignmentI just did that process today. I checked the tread. There is a 2mm difference from inside to outside. Flipping the tires like that, will help even out the wear in the long run.Dave

[tecton]

hmmtires are tiresyou drive on themyou cant have the worldeat the fact that these cars eat tiresi have ruined a set of tires in about 6 months and even lessits all about how you drivemy car goes sideways quite often

[russ257]

what kind of milage is everyone geting out of ther original tires i got 30,000 on my conti's

[Mavrik]

since I have summer and winter tires... I'll have to keep an eye on the wear. But basicly they tried to tell you the car is suppose to rattle and shake as well as eat tires? Failed to see that in the sales information...Anyway, hope you get it all fixed up, new tires should make the difference.

[goodvibe]

On a GT this is a good thing as it handles better with those camber settings but you have to scrub them a bit. The fronts get even worse with a drop. The solution is to get non directional tires and do cross rotation on a regular basis. I have directional tires and don't swap and hven't had an issue. Directional tires often show more noise over time on many vehicles. I would also check to see if the sleeves are actually correct as that could also cause you problem and be hard on the shocks. My dealer situations have me questioning ever looking at a GM product again. He's certainly not touching my car again.

[Mr. Poopypants]

Quote, originally posted by russ257 »what kind of milage is everyone geting out of ther original tires i got 30,000 on my conti's 15000 on my GSAs

[Mavrik]

3000km on my conti. swapped them for summer 17" tires and rims, sold the conti to a friend for a few $100 and he burned them up at the track lol

[vibebob]

I've had my 2005 Vibe for a month, and seeing this post has me wondering if I made the wrong choise ? I do get a slight humming sound from the rear of the car at highway speeds.anyway, what if I take it to a non-dealer and have the alignment checked and have the negative camber in the rear "corrected". what are the ramifications of doing this ? or take it to my dealer and have them check it.

[joatmon]

I got about 45K miles out of the stock continentals, and have been getting minimal wear out of the bridgestones that I have about 38K miles on so far. I wouldn't mess with the rear camber, "correcting" it to be zero or positive. I don't think that it inherently causees exaggerated tire wear, your driving habits will have more effect. I try to only hit the high speed high G turns every now and then, if you do it all the time you'll wear the tires faster, but it can be a lot of fun, these cars really corner wellbut I freely admint I am no tire wear/performance suspension knowledge resource, Maybe if I were autocrossing or had a need for a specific performance change I might mess with it, but factory setup has been good for both tire wear and mpgs for me

[vibebob]

thanks for the fast reply joatmon. I won't mess with the rear camber then. I don't really do any high G turns frequently, but do from time to time. You say you aren't a suspension knowledge resource, but your profile looks like you've had your Vibe for some time and would be very familiar with the car.

[joatmon]

nah, i just post a lot See, here's another one

[Atomb]

update Part 3:I decided that complaining to the dealership that my alignment most likely wasn't set properly from time of purchase was a waste of my time/effort. I think the best way to deal with a business that attempts to cover the fact that they may have made a mistake is to not let them do that again..as in i won't spend anymore time/money there.I also got brand spankin' new michelin hydroedges put on the car on tuesday and so far so good. they're pretty nice but i haven't driven much this week to get a good feel for them yet. will know more after the weekend ..i had the tire place do an alignment check (to verify what was done at the dealership) and they gave me a complete printout report with my car's reading vs. specs for the vibe and everything is well within ranges.