New here, need help with a Carfax report

airee85 · Post by **airee85** » Sat Jul 09, 2005 8:56 am

Hey, I'm new here...I'm looking to buy a 2003 Pontiac Vibe pretty soon with 24,000 miles on it and the car looks to be in amazing condition. I've went to see the car, but I haven't had the chance to drive it yet or really show the dealer my car (which will be my trade in, a 2000 Pontiac Grand Am GT). So, I haven't really discussed much with them yet about the car.Here's the problem though, I renewed my Carfax account online and ran the VIN number for the car, no huge problems found or anything, everything appears to be normal...except that it has 18 records and it goes something like this:-----------------------------------------------------------Date / Mileage Reading / Source / Comments 05/01/2002 5 Service Facility Vehicle servicedMiscellaneous service performed 05/15/2002 PennsylvaniaMotor Vehicle Dept.New Castle, PA Registered asprivate lease vehicle 06/14/2002 1,004 Service Facility Vehicle serviced 06/17/2002 PennsylvaniaMotor Vehicle Dept.New Castle, PA Title issued or updatedFirst owner reportedRegistered as lease vehicle 09/09/2002 2,480 Service Facility Vehicle servicedElectrical system servicedMiscellaneous service performed 10/15/2002 3,400 Service Facility Vehicle serviced 11/29/2002 3,774 Service Facility Vehicle serviced 03/04/2003 5,683 Service Facility Vehicle serviced 04/04/2003 6,099 Service Facility Vehicle serviced 09/25/2003 9,193 Service Facility Vehicle serviced 11/28/2003 10,709 Service Facility Vehicle serviced 01/13/2004 12,240 Service Facility Vehicle serviced 02/17/2004 Service Facility Vehicle serviced 03/24/2004 14,024 Service Facility Vehicle serviced 11/24/2004 16,893 Auto Auction Sold at auction 11/29/2004 Dealer InventoryIndianapolis, IN Vehicle offered for sale 01/26/2005 17,336 Auto Auction Sold at auctionin IndianaListed asa manufacturer vehicle -----------------------------------------------------------This has now made me kind of nervous. Does anybody familiar with Carfax or with leases know a logical explanation for this? The car appears to have been serviced every couple thousand miles...any help you can give me on this situation would be greatly appreciated.By the way, here is the link to the Vibe on sale: http://www.autotrader.com/deal...=null

ColonelPanic · Post by **ColonelPanic** » Sat Jul 09, 2005 9:16 am

Welcome aboard. Hmm, I would be curious about this as well... If the services were not so close together, it could have been for things like oil changes, etc. It looks like a really nice car, but it sure has had a lot of work done to it. Then again, it is a very old Vibe, seeing the delivery date.Looks like it was brought to auction twice if I'm reading that correct? I'm not really sure what to tell ya! It would be nice if you could get the complete service records from a dealer, perhaps that would be possible if the previous owners took it to a Pontiac dealer each time...Something sounds kinda fishy, but I haven't really had any experience with Carfax reports, so who knows. Good luck to you.

tnpartsguy · Post by **tnpartsguy** » Sat Jul 09, 2005 10:36 am

Quote, originally posted by ColonelPanic Â»Looks like it was brought to auction twice if I'm reading that correct? I'm not really sure what to tell ya! It would be nice if you could get the complete service records from a dealer, perhaps that would be possible if the previous owners took it to a Pontiac dealer each time...Something sounds kinda fishy, but I haven't really had any experience with Carfax reports, so who knows. Good luck to you. Sometimes a dealer will buy cars at the auction, and if they don't sell within 90~120 days, they dump them back to avoid paying anymore interest on a vehicle they don't have a buyer for; we just 'dumped' a 2004 Frosty 2-tone that was bought at auction, along with 4 others, because nobody looked at it.The services are too close together to be oil changes, have the dealer go to GMdealerworld and pull you a complete service history. All that work is warranty work, and you really need to know what it is.One last thing about CarFax, it's not as great as it sounds. A lot of wrecks never get reported to CarFax, some very bad ones; for example, Nick's car got hit pretty bad last year, and I'd almost gurantee that if you Carfax'd his car, it wouldn't show up. The only ones that show up are totals, or salvage titles.Just letting ya'll know....and read the fine print on CarFax's Buyback guarantee....

jake75 · Post by **jake75** » Sat Jul 09, 2005 11:26 am

Quote, originally posted by tnpartsguy Â»Sometimes a dealer will buy cars at the auction, and if they don't sell within 90~120 days, they dump them back to avoid paying anymore interest on a vehicle they don't have a buyer for; we just 'dumped' a 2004 Frosty 2-tone that was bought at auction, along with 4 others, because nobody looked at it.....Obviously I don't understand the used car business - seems like marking the prce down to near what the aution would bring would result in a quick sale and less expense and headache.

ColonelPanic · Post by **ColonelPanic** » Sat Jul 09, 2005 11:31 am

True... But then, the car could have been in an area like where I live where the dealers absolutely can not move a Vibe off the lot - new or otherwise, people just won't buy 'em in this part of Indiana.The dealer I bought my Vibe from has had the same ones sitting around since at least the winter, can't sell a single one of the total of three on the lot.

tnpartsguy · Post by **tnpartsguy** » Sat Jul 09, 2005 1:00 pm

Jake, Sometimes you hit an auction, and nobody else is bidding on the car, you can steal it. I've seen Ford SuperDuty Diesels' come in with 10K miles at way less than half sticker. You buy it, hold it 30 or so days, take it to another auction where there is a demand, and make 50% profit and call it a day.

northvibe · Post by **northvibe** » Sat Jul 09, 2005 4:20 pm

Could it of been a car rental's car? They are required to service those all the time.

airee85 · Post by **airee85** » Sat Jul 09, 2005 5:11 pm

Hmm, it just says it was registered as a lease, nothing about a rental...thanks for everyone's help by the way. I'm going to e-mail the dealer and see if they can find out and show me what all the services were about. That's sure a lot of servicing for such a beautiful car! I really want my Vibe!I "test drove" an '05 about a month ago, my friend had one as a rental car and I instantly fell in love with it. It was even a base-base Vibe too, so that says a lot, lol. The only differences I see from the '05 to the '03 would of course be the front grille and the light up display of the speedometer gauges, right?I'll keep everyone updated on what I find out.

ColonelPanic · Post by **ColonelPanic** » Sat Jul 09, 2005 7:02 pm

Good deal, have those guys at the dealer see about digging up some dirt on the car. It looks like it's been kept up well, but you won't know for sure until Quote Â»The only differences I see from the '05 to the '03 would of course be the front grille and the light up display of the speedometer gauges, right?In a nutshell, here's the timeline of a few things Vibe if that'll help you with your decision:'04: Envy (green) dropped; Fusion (orange) added; redesigned gauge cluster (white characters/red markings,) XM available, GT lost some horsepower, and I *think* those cars with the moonroof could get the 17" wheels that wasn't available in 2003 models with the moonroof.'05: Satellite (silver) replaced with platnium, Shadow (dark grey metallic) replaced with Moonstone. Quite similar to the '04 except: front end like you mentioned; body color mirrors; limited 2-tone availability (monotone Vibes are plentiful, but 2-tones started being produced late in the game; new fabric patterns; chrome trim removed from the door panels; dual level console armrest eliminated; center console power outlet eliminated. Some cars have drive-by-wire throttle control, others have manual linkages as previous years; stability control available; ABS now includes tire pressure monitor; side curtain air bags optional (previously only the seat mounted side air bags were available.)I think I've covered most of it. Not sure if that will help you but I figured it would be an easy way to compare what you're getting...

airee85 · Post by **airee85** » Sun Jul 10, 2005 5:03 am

Hey! Awesome, thanks! That's everything I needed to know. Was Envy green the puke green color? I've only seen a few of those, but I actually like it...

Kari · Post by **Kari** » Sun Jul 10, 2005 5:35 am

Yep, that was Envy...puke green...LOL

tecton · Post by **tecton** » Sun Jul 10, 2005 5:41 am

my car used to be a fleet vehicle for some pill company (found a bunch of pill boxes under the rear seat, plavix i think)so it was serviced alot

ColonelPanic · Post by **ColonelPanic** » Sun Jul 10, 2005 6:28 am

I liked Envy too, I'm fond of going against the grain so anything bizarre like that is a good thing to me. When I bought mine, I saw envy in the brochure and really wanted one but by that time, I think Envy was on its way out. But the Neptune I ended up with is a bit nicer looking, I think.

airee85 · Post by **airee85** » Sun Jul 10, 2005 6:35 am

Yeah, I really like Neptune. It' a very cool and deep shade of blue. I had co-worker who had an '03 monotone neptune blue and I really liked it...it looks like I'm stuck with Salsa, lol. At first I wasn't wild about it, but once I saw it in real life, it wasn't that bad!

Kari · Post by **Kari** » Sun Jul 10, 2005 6:57 am

Salsa is a nice color, looks great in either mono or two-tone also...though I'm a bit partial to two-tone. And I'm definitely partial to the '03-'04 body style and accessories that got cut out of the '05s. Though I do like the look of the '04 rocker panels a little better when comparing side by side, but the '03 still looks sporty. Hope you can find out what all those services are...let us know if you can...I'm curious too!

airee85 · Post by **airee85** » Sun Jul 10, 2005 7:42 am

I sure will. I have already e-mailed them and I'll be waiting for their response...you see, the reason I really haven't gone up there during their business hours yet to test drive and stuff is because my Grand Am is broken down. The intake gasget is about to blow and all my coolant has leaked out, so I'm getting that fixed Tuesday and as soon as I get it back, hopefully later this week, then I will be going up there for them to look at my car so we can discuss trade-in value.Oh yeah...another odd fact about this Vibe: if you look at the pictures of it on the link of it's sale web page, you'll notice the windows are not tinted. However, when I went to see the car in real life, the windows are at least tinted 30% all the way around...not that I'm complaining, but isn't that strange? I attatched the pic I took with the tinted windows...

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platnum43 · Post by **platnum43** » Sun Jul 10, 2005 8:11 am

welli bought my vibe brand new and since i bought it i had to bring it back to the dealer 3 times already all with what the call misc. service preformed i brought it back once because the sun roof that they put in it from the factory was to small and it leaked when it rained so they fixed it for me i then brought it back a month later because the drivers side window when rolled down it rattled when u shut the door those were both called misc srvice preformed and when i got the oil change in it it was also called the same thing so misc covers alot of things and also unless the car was brought to a major dealer or big name garage then any damage fixed on it wouldnt be palced on carfaxlike if i would of gone to bills garage down the street to gwet my vibe fixed instead of the dealer then it wouldnt even register as misc service on the carfax website no one would know so carfax is realable but not that much

jwalcik · Post by **jwalcik** » Sun Jul 10, 2005 8:27 am

Quote, originally posted by ColonelPanic Â» chrome trim removed from the door panels;what chrome trim are you referring to? my '05 has a piece of chrome trim on each of the front doors (and 8 or 9" long curved piece beneath the armrest)

ColonelPanic · Post by **ColonelPanic** » Sun Jul 10, 2005 8:33 am

All of the 2005's I've seen have had black plastic in place of the chrome on the door panels as the '03/'04 models had... What's your build date?Here's a pic of what I'm talking about thanks to Jeffgtx:

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airee85 · Post by **airee85** » Mon Jul 11, 2005 7:12 am

Got an e-mail back from the dealership today...they didn't even have the Carfax report...wth? I forwarded it to them and I'm waiting again.

Kari · Post by **Kari** » Mon Jul 11, 2005 7:14 am

They should be able to run the VIN and tell you what the service was for though, even without the Carfax report, I would think.

sloth · Post by **sloth** » Mon Jul 11, 2005 7:56 am

I traded my 2000 Grand Am Gt in for a 2003 Vibe GT. I was very dissapointed in the performance of the Base after driving the Grand Am GT for a couple years. So I got the first GT that came in to the dealer.Good luck... I don't think the carfax shows anything to really be concerned about.

jwalcik · Post by **jwalcik** » Mon Jul 11, 2005 8:55 am

huh. mine does in fact have a piece of chromed plastic there. how do i find out the build date? i know that before i bought it, it'd been on the dealer's lot since sept of 04.

airee85 · Post by **airee85** » Mon Jul 11, 2005 9:09 am

Sloth, what kind of pros and cons dod you have in switching from your Grand Am GT to the Vibe? I love my Grand Am...but I just seem to have a lot of problems with it and I wanted to go with something a little bit more reliable. I want to make to be completely sure I'm making the right choice! I appreciate everyone's input.

sloth · Post by **sloth** » Tue Jul 12, 2005 12:08 am

Well the pros:I drive this car my wife drove the Grand Am.Room, plenty of room for the dog or whatever we're hauling.Fun of driving a manual transmission again.Hitting Lift, really puts you back in your seat.Cons:Wife complains about not having the Grand Am as it was her car.Low End power isn't there with the vibe.I liked the seats better in the Grand Am.I think the room and the versatility of the vibe was enough to make me want the change. Besides there is million of grand ams out there. Vibe is still fairly uncommon.

platnum43 · Post by **platnum43** » Tue Jul 12, 2005 4:06 am

well maybe its not the same thing but i had a 96 grand am and now have a 05 vibe gt and there is no comparison its got more juice it looks better and is more roomier than my grand am was so i dont miss mine for a second

sloth · Post by **sloth** » Tue Jul 12, 2005 4:32 am

I'd agree, with the first couple words. Not the same. Grand Am was redesigned in 98 or 99. The 2000 Grand Am GT is a V6 I believe 3400 and it came with ram air. 175hpI think with above 4000 RPM the power is pretty comparable with the Grand Am

Mavrik · Post by **Mavrik** » Tue Jul 12, 2005 4:42 am

Sometimes service work like oil changes are performed before the mileage is due because time wise its due. Now as suggested I would have GM run the vin so you can see if it was warranty work done, otherwise GM does not have service records like oil changes and such.I liked that green colour... would never own one though that colour unless I was going to mod the heck out of it.

airee85 · Post by **airee85** » Fri Jul 15, 2005 11:45 am

Well, I test drove the car today...man, I really love it...it's amazing. Drove perfect, looks great on the inside and outside, everything about the car is awesome. It even had tweeters...is that standard with moon & tunes? The sound system sounded great. The only problem is, they wont budge on the price or give me enough to clear my Grand Am (it's sooo close)...like if they would just negotiate taking off a grand....or just giving me more for my car. I really fell in love with it...but it doesn't seem like they will budge on the price. Ugh...I guess I'll try e-mailing them my offer and see if they change their mind :-Someone who is good at haggling, come help me!

jake75 · Post by **jake75** » Fri Jul 15, 2005 1:21 pm

You call a $1,000 difference "sooo close"?

ColonelPanic · Post by **ColonelPanic** » Fri Jul 15, 2005 1:47 pm

Not all of us are experts at getting the best deals, not all of us have that keen haggling ability... I know I suck royally at it. I'm lucky if I can pay MSRP for something, it's a miracle they didn't rip me off for MSRP and then some...

airee85 · Post by **airee85** » Fri Jul 15, 2005 1:59 pm

A grand would be ideal...$500 is close, i could deal with coming up with the other $500 myself.

airee85 · Post by **airee85** » Fri Jul 15, 2005 3:24 pm

Ok, I am really horrible at this. I think some pople are made to haggle and buy cars and some aren't, yeah...that would be me, lol. I have bought a car before, but I had help from a grandparent to pay off whatever was "left-over". I don't want that this time, I want to be responsible for myself...but I do need some advice though. I just want to know what some of you think is "reasonable". This is what is going on...The car is $13,995 and they will give me $5695 for my trade in. The problem is, I need to clear what I owe (or come close) on my Grand Am GT, which is: $6660. The difference is $8300, which means I'd have to come up with an extra $1640. I'm sorry about my post earlier, I didn't have the figures completly correct.Now...what I was wanting to know what you think is reasonable is to ask $560 more for my trade in...after all, they were actually giving me below the rounded value of what Kelly Blue Book and NADA say my car is worth (it's kept up good for a 2000). That makes my trade in $6255. And then have them knock $500 off the asking price of the Vibe, making it $13,495. After that, I only have to pay $580 out of my pocket. I guess that's asking a lot...but then again, I don't know how car buying usually goes and how far you and get prices switched, after all, the salesman said it's all a number game. Anyone?

joatmon · Post by **joatmon** » Fri Jul 15, 2005 11:58 pm

Are there other used Vibes around you? I found an envy vibe near you I'd check out http://autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?car_id=185633522 find out if it's monotnone Maybe you need to be a hard core vibe enthusiast to like the envy color though. Try autotrader.com and cars.com, but open up the search range to 50 or 100 miles. For a grand or two, it might be worth the drive, especially if you can find one still with a factory warranty that you can get serviced locally.

airee85 · Post by **airee85** » Sat Jul 16, 2005 1:21 am

I actually did go check out that vibe, it is monotone envy green and I like it it's just that, I fell in love with this burgandy one and it already has tinted windows and it has 20,000 less miles than the green one...if they wont budge on the burgandy one, I'll most likely go for the green one, I just thought it would be cool to have a car with 20k miles on it for once!

Kari · Post by **Kari** » Sat Jul 16, 2005 1:25 am

If it only has 20,000 miles, then it's still under factory warranty and I'd definitely go for that one. Are you paying cash for the rest of the car? (i.e. the 7K between your trade-in and the cost of the Vibe) If it were me, I would try talking them up and saying something akin to, "If I can't get this for my trade then I can't buy this car." If they really want to make the sale, they'll probably give you what you want for your trade after that...

airee85 · Post by **airee85** » Sat Jul 16, 2005 2:00 am

I'm actually going through a loan through my bank for that. And you do think that there is the possibility that they will give me what I owe on my car? He said if it was a lot closer, he could make it work, but it's like a $960 difference between what I owe and what he would give me. I want that car!I did take a picture with my phone of the envy green Vibe (so it's not the best quality), but I did attatch that pic to this post.BTW, where in Tennessee do you live Kari? My brother lived in Murfreesboro for the past 4 or 5 months, but he's back home now.

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Kari · Post by **Kari** » Sat Jul 16, 2005 2:32 am

The bank may give you the difference if the dealer won't, as well...And I live in Northeast TN...about 5 hours or so from Nashville.

airee85 · Post by **airee85** » Sun Jul 17, 2005 11:20 am

Cool I e-mailed the dealer asking at least $800-900 more for my trade-in, which I think is fair. They are trying to give me below it's average trade-in value. So everyone cross their fingers for me! I want to be an official Vibe member!

drunkenmaxx · Post by **drunkenmaxx** » Mon Jul 18, 2005 2:13 am

colonel, is that your car? did you sell your vibe secretly?

Mavrik · Post by **Mavrik** » Tue Jul 19, 2005 5:16 am

Quote, originally posted by airee85 Â»I'm actually going through a loan through my bank for that. And you do think that there is the possibility that they will give me what I owe on my car? He said if it was a lot closer, he could make it work, but it's like a $960 difference between what I owe and what he would give me. I want that car!I did take a picture with my phone of the envy green Vibe (so it's not the best quality), but I did attatch that pic to this post.BTW, where in Tennessee do you live Kari? My brother lived in Murfreesboro for the past 4 or 5 months, but he's back home now.Oh you must get that green car! I don't think a single Viber here on GV has one. I'm I'm wrong, someone say something

ShadowRuleZ · Post by **ShadowRuleZ** » Tue Jul 19, 2005 5:30 am

First rule of car buying is don't get attached. Tell him this is my final offer, otherwise I'm going elsewhere to find one. He'll probably call you in a day or two with a counter offer, say no, and then see if he calls the next day to accept your offer.There are a ton of cars out there for sale, so use that to your advantage.

airee85 · Post by **airee85** » Tue Jul 19, 2005 7:34 am

Thanks for the suggestions guys! I did e-mail them my offer and I'm waiting to see if I get anything back from them.On the other hand, I am going to check out the Envy green Vibe tomorrow. 44k miles, moon & tunes, $12,980. I'll let you know how the test drive goes! I attatched a better pic that I took of it...I'm really starting to dig the color, it's not so bad!

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Mavrik · Post by **Mavrik** » Tue Jul 19, 2005 7:37 am

*drool* Nice....

joatmon · Post by **joatmon** » Tue Jul 19, 2005 7:55 am

Quote, originally posted by Mavrik Â»Oh you must get that green car! I don't think a single Viber here on GV has one. I'm I'm wrong, someone say something there are a few, but not many.If I had additional trouble with my car, I might trade it in for an automatic, since I seem to be driving a lot in downtown DC lately and also the auto trannies don't seem to be problematic, and that is the car that I would seriously consider. envy monotone is really uncommon, some say for a good reason, but people here spend thousands of dollars trying to make their average looking vibe into a unique looking vibe, there's one ready made. Just get some kind of warranty on the thing.

airee85 · Post by **airee85** » Tue Jul 19, 2005 9:08 am

It appears to have an extended warranty! I like odd colors and being unique, all my family members and friends I have shown it to so far have said it was ugly, but I think it's me and if I end up with it, I will like it and that's all that matters

airee85 · Post by **airee85** » Wed Jul 20, 2005 6:13 am

Just another update, sorry if these get annoying! But the dealer with the burgandy Vibe e-mailed me this morning and asked for me to come back to reappraise my car and that there was a "good chance we can get together on a deal". So I'm going back up there tonight...so the Vibe has had some warranty work with electrical stuff...that makes me nervous, but maybe it's all been worked out..?

jeffgtx · Post by **jeffgtx** » Wed Jul 20, 2005 6:59 am

good luck.its funny what a difference 2 yearws makes. envy vibes wer eyesoars when they came out and now i think they look way cool. i like fusion punkin metallic too.

ColonelPanic · Post by **ColonelPanic** » Wed Jul 20, 2005 2:18 pm

Quote, originally posted by drunkenvibe Â»colonel, is that your car? did you sell your vibe secretly? I must have missed this. (removed)! Nope, I still have it... But once I do dump the thing, there shall be a moratorium on all 2003 neptune 2-tone purchases throughout the region! Anywho, damn that Envy is sweet! Yes we do have several members around with Envy cars... Threekrows is the only one I can think of that has posted recently. That's the color I kinda wanted, just to be diff'rent... Infected snot/booger green, can't go wrong! Unfortunatley the Envy was on its way out when I got my car.

ShadowRuleZ · Post by **ShadowRuleZ** » Wed Jul 20, 2005 10:16 pm

Quote, originally posted by airee85 Â»so the Vibe has had some warranty work with electrical stuff...that makes me nervous, but maybe it's all been worked out..?Use it as a bargaining chip.