Question about Audio replacement

[mmickk]

I have not replaced or installed any audio for some time. In looking around I have run across some info about the problems related to changing the in-dash units of GM cars. In some cases they are telling me that the oem unit has to stay in the car because its electronics in some way are associated with other systems in the car.( air bag system was mentioned as an example)My question(s) are : Can the in-dash unit be replaced in my Vibe without having to worry about this? It is after all mostly Toyota right? Did they do the electronics on this car? My other query is about equipment brand. What could I expect to pay for a modest system that will sound good, and what speakers will sound good with anything from classical to 60's rock? At present i have the 6 speaker system that came with the "Moon&Toons" pak.I dont need a subwoofer, but I do very much feel that these stock speakers have got to go. Thanks for any suggestions from you audio experts out there.................

[wrench79]

Putting a new head unit in your car won't affect anything else. I don't think the radio is toyota. The interior of the vibe/matix was designed by gm, so i'm sure the radio is a delco. There is a lot of good audio equipment out there and you usually get what you pay for. After you choose you're head unit i would get a decent component set for the front and a pair of coaxial speakers in the rear. Then get a four channel amp around 70-90 wattsx4. You wont use you're speakers to they're full potential running them off of a head unit. You should check out http://www.crutchfield.com, they have a lot of info on a lot of products, although i wouldn't buy anything from crutchfield as they are usually more expensive than the local best buy or circuit city.

[Mephisto]

If you look carefully the Vibe/Matrix dash, you can see a toyota-like dash (Celica steering wheel, toyota style switch (door lock, mirror, etc)) WITH a 2DIN Pontiac style radio (like the one of the Grand Am, the Montana and the Aztek). I don't think that it is a problem to change the radio because it don't have special feature like OnStar.

[mmickk]

Does it use the 2din or the 1.5din style? I looked at the Cruthfield site (thanks for that info) and saw a Pioneer 1.5din made for the GM replacement. I would like to keep the look of the dash pretty much intact. I have used Pioneer some time ago and found their products to be very well made. Do they still make a good product as far as reliability? Sound quality? Thanks for all your time and help....Mike

[wrench79]

yes it's a double din. i don't know if you'll be able to find a kit to go from 1.5 to 2. I do know that there is a 1 din flush mount kit, which would be the best choice cause with a flush mount the head unit won't protrude out the the dash as much. Pioneer has always had a solid product and i've always had good luck with them. Just stay away from they're subwoofers as there are much better subs for the money. And as far as replacing factory speakers pioneers pack the best bang for the buck, but ther are not the best if that's what you're looking for.

[mmickk]

Thanks Wrench79...I was not really thinking of using Pioneer speakers. Have you used the Infinity componets? Or Polks? Or any others that you may have heard and liked? Also, I remember that Alpine always (years ago) had a good reputation for sound but was at the time having some durability problems. How do the new units hold up?

[wrench79]

I have used infinity and polk coaxials and components. I liked the polk alot more than the infinity.It's my opinion that infinity should just stick to home audio. Rockford fosgate also makes an excellent component set. You could also check out mbquart or oz audio. As far as head units go i think alpine has gone downhill, but they're not pieces of **** yet. Alpine coaxial speakers are decent if you get into they're high end stuff. For head units you should check out panasonic, they have come so far in the last 4 or 5 years and really put out some kick (removed) but afordabe decks. I'll see if i can get some web sites for ya. Dan

[d_m_kolb]

Here is my 2 cents. I like Blaupunkt head units and speakers. I'll explain why. The head units have a higher RMS than any other head unit I have found. RMS is the amount of continuos power a unit can produce, measured in watts. The higher the RMS figure, the louder and clearer your music sounds. Don't get RMS confused with peak power. Peak power is the maximum a unit can supply for a brief period. The RMS figure is the one that counts.Blaupunkt head units run around 25 watts of RMS and 50 watts by 4 of peak power. Most other head units even if are 50 peak watts by 4 are only around 15 to 22 RMS. Look in http://www.critchfield.com and you'll see this. Also the Blaupunkt head unit I have which is the Austin has great FM sensativity of 9.1 The smaller the number, the greater ability to pick up weaker stations. Most average between 10 to 12 and some of course are higher than that.I like Blaupunkt speakers because they have a lower sensitivity (efficiency) than most other speakers. This means the higher the sensitivity, the louder the speaker will play with the same input power. For instance, a speaker rated 3db higher than another will requirehalf as much power to produce the same output. So if you have a low-powered factory head unit these speakers will sound outstanding. A high powered aftermarket head unit will make them sound even better.Lastly the head unit I have and most Blaupunkts are cheaper than other units with the same options plus the points I ponted out above. Speakers on average are cheaper also, and sound better than most. http://www.critchfield.com

[wrench79]

I also like blauplunct head units. They do usually have good power(rms) and they have the best tuners. I had a casablanca(which i just got rid of) for a year or so, and it was a good unit. The sound quality was almost top notch, i'm not sure but i think it had a signal to noise ratio of 96 or 98 which is among the best. One of the bad things about blaupunct decks is that they are usually very ugly or look like stock equipment, which i guess is a good thing if that's what you're looking for. But it's my opinion that there are a lot better decks out there with better looks, comparable power, just as good if not better sound quality, more features, and better ergonomics. It may sound like i'm diss'n blau, but i do think that they are decent units.As far as blau speakers go i would have to compare them to pioneer(they're a little better than pioneer though) They're coaxials offer a lot of bang for the buck but lack the sound quality of higher end equipment, but for basic factory speaker replacement they are a nice upgrade and sound decent with deck power. I would definately stay away from blau sub as they are among some of the ****tiest subs i have ever come into contact with.

[d_m_kolb]

Hey wrench79 have you by chance seen the new blauplunct head units. They look pretty good but thats a personal thing I guess. In my opinion blauplunct is very top of the line and you can't beat the price. Plus like I said in the post above the RMS is the highest among head units. This can be research on http://www.crutchfield.com The speakers I think are top notch. In my experience the speakers are among the best. I personally will not use any other kind of speaker because I think they sound better than any thing else I have ever heard.It's really up to you what you put in your car but you can't go wrong with getting blauplunct head units, or speakers.

[wrench79]

The new blau's do look better than they used to and i'm not sayin that they are pieces of ****. It's just been by experience that there are better units with more features and better displays.Rms isn't always a selling point for some people. When i had my casablanca i didn't even use the speaker outputs cause i was runnin all my stuff with amp, which is the best way to go if you want to get the cleanest sound and most output out of your speakers. Like i said before blaupunkt speakers(except for they're subwoofers) are a good upgrade if you are running them off of deck power. But a decent component set(which blau doesn't make one)will blow away inferior middle of the road speakers like pioneers,blau's, and sony. But when it comes down to it that's just my opinion and years of experience with car audio and competition talkin'. It all depends on how much you want to spend and how serious about car audio you are, and some people are just loyal to one brand.

[mmickk]

Thanks All...lots of good info for me to look into. Now let me ask another question. Would it be possable to use the unit that already exists but run it to a decent amp and good speakers? Is this difficult? How would the stock unit affect sound fidelity? The only real reason that I like this idea is that it would look stock and maybe less appealing to thieves.
[Modified by mmickk, 11:53 PM 6/20/2002]

[wrench79]

in order to run an amp off of a stock unit you have to get a high to low level converter, since stock units don't have rca outputs. A converter would offset the addition of an amp and good speakers because you loose a lot of sound quality with a converter. So if you want better sound quality you're gonna have to replace the head unit(trust me i've done it before)

[d_m_kolb]

I have done want you are asking without a converter and noticed no different in sound except of course it was much louder. Just run the wires that go to your speakers to the amp and then the amp to the speakers. It actually might be just want you wanted. Just make sure you get the front right speaker into the amp in the correct front right spot and so on.

[wrench79]

don't take this personally d_m_ , but that's kind of ghetto. Sure you can do it, but it's not something i would do with a 20k car. And you if you do that then you have to get an amp that accepts high level inputs, which only crappy amps like jenson and audiovox etc. have them. If you really want to install a good audio system then you should do it right.

[d_m_kolb]

The question was, can run a stock radio with a amp? Yes you can. Will it sound better than the stock set up like this? Yes it will. There is all ways something better. I simply answered his question. quote:don't take this personally d_m_ , but that's kind of ghetto. Sure you can do it, but it's not something i would do with a 20k car. And you if you do that then you have to get an amp that accepts high level inputs, which only crappy amps like jenson and audiovox etc. have them. If you really want to install a good audio system then you should do it right.Not everyone has alot of money to play with. This is not ghetto by any means and most amps have high level inputs which are called speaker level inputs and sound good with a set up like this because the amps are made for this kind of set up. I have done this in the past and it sounded good. Yes it will sound a little better if the head unit had preouts but it's not needed, unless you have the extra money to spend or are going compition with your stereo.Another thing you said was only crappy amps have high level inputs (speaker level inputs). Not sure where you came up with this because most amps even the most expensive amps have this option. I'll list a few and you can judge if they are crappy. All of these listed have several units with speaker level inputs.AlpineBlaupunktJBLJensonKenwoodKickerLightningMTX ThunderProfileRF PunchSonyUS acousticsAll in all I wouldn't worry about a high to low level converter unless you just really want one and have the extra money to spend. The difference in the sound is not going to be that noticable. It would be better but I think you'll be very happy with just the stock head unit, aftermarket amp and speakers.

[wrench79]

Sorry I called you getto d_m_, i wasn't sober when i made that post. You're right most amps do come with speaker level inputs. You do get more distortion using speaker level inputs though. I wouldn't recomend anything from jenson,profile,us accustics, or jbl. But all the others make very good amps. Stock headunits don't have as good sound quality, but if you just upgrade the speakers it would sound a lot better than the paper cone ones that come with the car. I guess when it comes down to it it just depends on how much loot you're willing to spend.

[d_m_kolb]

Never had any hard feelings. I love a good discussion.

[zeroaxs]

I too have heard it's a double din head unit. However, when asking around, everyone tells me that it is not possible to fit a double DIN unit into the space and I will have to buy a 1DIN unit and get a "filler" to take up the extra room. Is this true? I'd love to preserve the look of the original stereo as much as possible when I replace the head unit (Stupid Pontiac people let me believe i was gonna get the 6-disc changer #(&$*#&(&$# people)......