Vibe SC same as TRD SC???

[matrixguy707]

Hey there...i was wondering if any of you knew if the Vibe SC will have the 5th injector as well as a new ECU like the TRD SC? Are they actually one and the same? I think they are but there are some doubters. And the quote in your article about it being under $3000 for the SC and install... is that true??? Im getting a ball park of $3500 just for the SC from TRD!If any of you know please enlighten me...see below for TRD info...

[matrixguy707]

Im also curious to know if we have the same ECU's in our cars. I have a Matrix XR. I wonder how we can figure out if its the same thing? Im pretty sure it is but there are those that dont think so. I dont know why they would make them any different. I have an Apex'i Super AFC on mine so i have some pics of the ECU before I installed it.

[d_m_kolb]

I have e-mailed Eaton since they are the manufacturer of the SC and also e-mailed a few other contacts to make sure before I give a answer. Once I get a reply and I'll post info here.I know that talking with TRD a few weeks ago the tech said it's the same SC that GM is using. As for the 5th fuel injetor and ECM I still want to get more info.

[d_m_kolb]

Talked with our other Administrator who went to SEMA and he's very sure they are the same one. You can use a TRD on a Vibe and a GM on a Matrix. I also spoke with Jeff Holland who works in GM's Design/Production & Specialty Vehicles department and he saidquote:The supercharger packages are identical.jeffrey.holland@gm.com

[matrixguy707]

Okay cool... so you confirmed that it has the additional injector and updated ECU? Im just trying to get as clear as possible. Could you also check if GM will install the kit on a Matrix since they are identicle? I was curious how warranty would be handled in that kind of situation.BTW thanks for going on the MatrixOwners.com and clearing things up.

[d_m_kolb]

I aksed about the 5th fuel inject and ECM issue when I e-mailed Jeffrey Holland at GM and he e-mailed back they are the same unit. So I would say everything is the same. I still have a few e-mails that are out but haven't been answered yet.As far as a GM or Pontiac Dealer working on a Matrix you'll have to call and ask to speak to the Service manager. Some will say no. Just keep calling around because some dealer will do this install. You could all ways buy the GM SC and install it yourself or have a Toyota dealer install it. The warrenty probably wouldn't be there though on the SC if you did it this way though. Call and speak to a dealer.

[matrixguy707]

I may just do the install myself if its gonna save me over a grand. thanks for the info!

[Yoda]

quote:I may just do the install myself if its gonna save me over a grand. thanks for the info!If the install is supposed to take you 3 hours, it'll be 1.5 hours tops at the dealer. I'd be mad if they charged me more than $100 to install a "kit". OK, maybe I'd be willing to pay another $100 to make the warranty longer, but no way would I pay $1000. That's more like the labor cost for custom fabrication.

[d_m_kolb]

Well I e-mailed Eaton since they are the manufactuer of the supercharger and here is the reply I got back.quote:Derek,Thanks for the great question. The answer is Yes! They both are in fact thesame super chargers.Kevin S. Gunn(805)-642-8833kgunn@magnacharger.comI think it's now cystal clear that the TRD and GM SC is the same thing.

[matrixguy707]

Yeah the SC itself is the same.. i have no doubt about that. Still curious if the ECU mod / replacement and injector are the same or does the Vibe just get the SC without the extra fuel injector and ECU?

[d_m_kolb]

LOL ok guess I need to do some more checking. I'll respond back with a for sure answer. Give me some time to research this.

[matrixguy707]

Thanks man!If it doesnt come with the extra injector and modified ECU then i can see the reason for the price difference in product and installation!

[d_m_kolb]

Here is a quote from Jeff out of a e-mail he sent to me today.quote:There will be a fifth fuel injector and a "piggyback" PCM on bothapplications (Matrix and Vibe), but, due to a basic technologicaldifference in OBD II software language, the use of a TRD kit on a Vibe andPerformance Parts kit on a Matrix will not be practical.In the past, Toyota and GM have taken very different approaches to OBD IIcompliance. Toyota uses far simpler and more generic software in its PCMs;GM has long been recognized as the "best" manufacturer in the world as itrelates to true (legitimate) OBD II compliance, so I couldn't see us usingTRD's base PCM or piggyback unit.Does that answer your question?JeffSo that answers that question. I'm in the process of finding out if the factory PCM is the same in both vehicles. I should know soon and I'll post back here.

[d_m_kolb]

Nina Price at GM sent this e-mail to me.nina.price@gm.comquote:The ECM/ programming between the Vibe and Matrix are notinterchangeable. Much of the hardware will be the same but differences doexist.Most importantly, there are differences between the two vehicles. NeitherTRD nor Toyota recommends using Matrix parts (or performance parts)designed for the Matrix on the Vibe. Likewise, neither GM PerformanceParts nor Pontiac recommend using Vibe parts on the Matrix. Owners thatchoose to interchange components between models will do so at their ownrisk with no warranty or support from either company. Moreover, if a Vibeis taken to a Pontiac dealer with TRD components installed the OE factorywarranty will not be honored.So I think this answers both questions. I was wrong and I appologize for giving out incorrect info. I'm still waiting on one more e-mail from Jeff and once I receive it I'll quote it here.

[mu_ohio]

A little off topic, but that email made it sound like if I had a TRD exhaust, they wouldn't warranty my vehicle.

[d_m_kolb]

They will warrenty your vehicle just not the part you replaced. Since you replaced the exhaust then they don't have to warrenty any part of the exhaust, but say your AC stops working that's still under warrenty.Anything you change or modify on your vehicle, on that certain part you changed, replced or modified wont be under warrenty anymore. Everything else will. Dealerships like to screw with people that don't understand the law. They can't void your whole warrenty because, say you installed a CAI.Does that make sense?

[mu_ohio]

The way that the email sounded was that TRD parts would void the warranty regardless. If you read it, they made a point by singling out TRD parts. Then again it is coming from GM and they will always try to put down the other company.The thing that baffles me is how the ECU can vary between the two cars. Why would both companies spend extra time and money developing two different solutions when the cars are identical?

[Flip-Side]

quote:In the past, Toyota and GM have taken very different approaches to OBD II compliance. Toyota uses far simpler and more generic software in its PCMs; GM has long been recognized as the "best" manufacturer in the world as it relates to true (legitimate) OBD II compliance, so I couldn't see us using TRD's base PCM or piggyback unit. What I got from this is that basically you can use both but GM wanted to be a stickler and change a piddly insignificant part of software that will most likely hurt performance and price. Classic, but I'll still get my "cheaper" parts from "The Source", instead of buying repackeged parts from GM at twice the cost. As far as the SC, I'll get the GM just so I get the warrenty.