The reason GM hurts...

[ragingfish]

is because Bob Lutz is an IDIOT!I'm watching the webcast of the Chicago Auto Show where he unveiled the GP GXP.He knows NOTHING about these cars.He can't pronounce half the terms.And he's a bumbling doofus.GM -- GET YOURSELF A NEW LEADER!

[nismo]

Haha. I have a friend who knows Mr. Lutz. He let him drive the C6 before anyone even saw it. He said it pretty quick.Inder

[AzFusionGT]

This has been a very interesting topic of discussion at GmInsideNews.com. (Don't know how to link. )

[kostby]

[RANT]IMHO without a car-guy like Bob Lutz somewhere within GM, the accountants would be making EVERY marketing decision. GM would have 'de-contented' themselves into 6-cyl 180 h.p. Corvettes with vinyl interiors and stamped steel wheels shoe'd with 185/80SR13 chinese tires, solely because it was cheaper, and the accountants figured the public was too dumb to notice.Pontiac would already be on it's way to 'distant memory -- just like Oldsmobile'. IIRC, Bob Lutz IS THE ONE who shepherded the Solstice to market in 27 months, and I strongly believe, IS a major influence behind bringing exciting high-performance GM cars to market quickly (like the Holden to the US as the GTO) in an effort to revive sales.[/RANT]

[ragingfish]

I see your points, and they seem valid.But Bob Lutz keeps raving how Pontiac has "come back as the performance division."How is it that Saturn's roadster touts more horsepower than the Solstice? Pontiac has already said no to a V6 option with the Solstice.The upcoming Torrent is getting a weak 180 hp engine, less than the VUE.The Grand Prix is horribly underpowered.On top of all that, sales have been lukewarm, at best.I love Pontiac, and I'll always be brand loyal to them. But I can't help worrying that he is running the brand out of business, and 10 years from now, anything with a dart on it's nose will be a collectors item, just like an Olds.

[Jahntassa]

Quote, originally posted by ragingfish »Pontiac has already said no to a supercharger on the Solstice.Wait, what? I thought it was listed as an option on the "Vehicles coming soon" section of the pontiac site. When did that change?

[goodvibe]

That's nothing compared to their service. At the 30K service they replaced the throw out bearing on my GT and were kind enough to give me a clutch since it was getting thin and they had it apart anyway. That's the good part. They had to replace the throw out bearing again a week later. The tranny had a whine at high RPM after the service which was obviously from the second bearing. Kept it for weeks trying to find out where the sound came from when the only thing that changed was the bearing that they insisted was done right this time. They replaced a transmition bearing by recommendation of the factory and it didn't change a thing, at which point it was a normal sound according to them. The sound finally went away on its own a few thousand miles later as the throw out bearing worked in. The clutch also felt like it shuddered and this was also normal for them. Keep in mind that other than the original bearing ring, my clutch never slipped nor did I ever have a shift problem or other odd noise. I replaced my plugs this week. I discovered that the shudder was from them cleanining my Iridium Power plus and breaking off one of the tiny electrodes. The other plugs showed no electrode deterioration. At the 30k the air filter was put in with the tab the wrong way around (I fixed that earlier) and there was a big dirty hand print on the clean side of the filter. When I changed my plugs I also couldn't remove one of the engine cover screws due to it being cross threaded and the plugs were under torqued. The car ran fine fine other than at low rpm high load launch. Now it runs like it used to. The broken plug looked fine in terms of residue. it amazes me that it kept firing fine with double+ the normal gap. Hardly a horror story but it will keep me away from GM in the future and this service department is an award winner. P.S. I've got a kid that's older than some of you and use the car 80% highway. Not a racer. The highway miles probably kept the broken plug clean enough to keep working. This was Sulivan Pontioac in Arlington Hgts, Il. I like their policies and sale dept. but when the service dept. tells me I'm crazy and shouldn't use high rpm ever and they're at fault for shoddy service I can only take my bussiness elswhere. I'll be using Toyota mechanics in the future for any major repairs. I've saved this rave because I was giving them the benefit of doubt as no one is perfect but after changing my plugs and discovering two other problems, I just couldn't hold it in any more.

[ragingfish]

Quote, originally posted by Jahntassa »Wait, what? I thought it was listed as an option on the "Vehicles coming soon" section of the pontiac site. When did that change?I got my thoughts screwed up.I meant to say they said no to a V6.Goodvibe: You appear to have replied to the wrong thread!

[Flip-Side]

Quote, originally posted by ragingfish »The Grand Prix is horribly underpowered.On top of all that, sales have been lukewarm, at best.It is true Bob Luntz is an odd bird, and jeez he can't talk to save his life, but this guy has almost single handedly got GM back on track. Quality, design, and performance for GM vehicles have actually taken some big steps in the past few years. He is big on research, big on cool ideas, and motivated enough to produce them rather than leave it as a pipe dream. I do agree on many of your points though dude. I have no idea why the chevy and pontiac lines still suck. I for one would rather buy Toyota, Honda, or Nissan now because of my bad experiences with GM.Saturn was in big trouble (they used the exact same powertrain for like 10 years!) and is nice to see they have some cool new products that appeal (Such as Honda provided engines). It is now the import car alternative company. They angle sales to people looking for a Honda, Toyota, ect., so they have finally been given something they can sell.One thing we can be hopefull for though. The Monte and Grand Prix will be getting a v8 in 2006! Is this because of the Magnum's new HEMI? I think so.

[cohocarl]

Quote, originally posted by Flip-Side »this guy has almost single handedly got GM back on track. Ditto. He can't talk, but he's got some balls.

[goodvibe]

The point was that Mr Goodwrench is a also a very big part of why GM hurts. The info is for those that want proof. Lutz is a car guy and GM should be happy to have him even if he can't turn a wrench. He should, however, have beefed up a bit before the interview.

[ragingfish]

Quote, originally posted by silverawd26 »I totally agree with Coho and Flip here.... You are gaga over your parents new G6 and the new and upcoming Saturn Line, Lutz is the one who got GM back on track and prob brought you those wonderful vehicles.But is it too little too late?Yeah, I love hte G6. BUt realistically, I can't be used as a point of reference. I was bred to love Pontiacs, and they could probably put 4 wheels on a turd with twin-port grills and I'd find the good in it...Reality is, look at sales. People are yawning. GM's "performance" division is anything but...Pontiac is hurting...big time...Honestly, the Vibe was a huge breakthrough -- and sales have sliped since they "improved" the apperaence...He doesn't seem to care about Pontiac, Buick, and even GMC. Chevy, Caddy, and Hummer are getting all the attention...I'm glad to see Saturn is making somewhat of a recovery, but again, is it too late?All I know is since the late 90s, GM has been slipping...frightfully...and I just don't have a lot of confidence in him to bring GM back to the forefront.

[cohocarl]

I guess from what I've read, he's getting GM steered in the right direction on with some nice cars that "we" want, rather than what they want.http://www.john-ross.net/pride,_excess. ... naro09.htm

[Stang2Vibe]

GM has some big steps to take to prepare itself for survival in the future, but it appears that at least they've faced their body toward those steps even if they haven't started climbing them. The biggest problem with them is that it seems that they try to make every new car they roll out appeal to everyone. Well, that works if you're only making two or three models, but GM produces many different models in many different lines. So keep an "old man" division around like Buick to sell to the Geritol crowd. But they need to put a lot less Geritol and a lot more spice into the other car lines. Cadillac did a good job of reinventing itself, even though it is just starting to catch on. From the line that used to tout itself as "the standard of the world" we are finally getting some world-class cars again instead of the cast iron bathtubs turned upside down with 4 wheels attached and gold plated insignias that they offered through most of the 80's and 90's. No wonder that most of their buyers were in their 80's and 90's.GM has come up with some great concept cars, but the ones that make it to market get so watered down because they try to make them appeal to "everyone" when they go into production. Now we have the Solstice, which I think looks like an awesome car. Attractive two-seat roadster, aggressively yet tastefully styled, nice interior and trim, but then GM shoots it right in the heart by making it so that it's performance rivals that of the Grand Am. So you've got a Grand Am that's trying to be a Corvette. Sorry, but I just don't find that appealing. To me, it's like using duct tape to stick cardboard hoodscoops, spoilers, and rocker kits on a Ford Tempo and calling it a "car for enthusiasts". Sorry GM, but you haven't got me fooled.In the meantime, other foreign carmakers are turning up both the looks and the performance. I can't really blame people for switching from domestic to foreign cars anymore. Look at the new lineups from manufacturers like Mazda and Nissan. Even their typical "family man" cars have style and can up and move. The entry level models have some style, they don't look like they've been just slapped together from leftover unwanted parts just to produce an offering for that market segment and round out the product line. And they can even be factory ordered as sporty sub-models or with add-ons that not only have a sportier look, but actually perform. What do we get from GM to serve that role? Usually something that would rival the Citation X-11. Oh, whoopee. They need to get with the program and truly diversify the product line. Make the old man cars for the old men. Make the entry level cars for the penny pinchers and the younger crowd. Make the minivans and SUV's for the soccer moms and the urban warriors. Make the sports cars for the avid performance enthusiast. Have some models that cross these traits, but for God's sake, please stop trying to make every model appeal to the whole market!

[kostby]

Quote, originally posted by ragingfish »... they could probably put 4 wheels on a turd with twin-port grilles...Well, THAT COMMENT actually describes NOT PONTIAC, but ALL of the Chris Bangle-designed BMW's of the last few years!

[ragingfish]

Quote, originally posted by kostby »Well, THAT COMMENT actually describes NOT PONTIAC, but ALL of the Chris Bangle-designed BMW's of the last few years!ROFL!Touché my friend!

[ToolGuy]

Quote, originally posted by ragingfish »is because Bob Lutz is an IDIOT!I'm watching the webcast of the Chicago Auto Show where he unveiled the GP GXP.He knows NOTHING about these cars.He can't pronounce half the terms.And he's a bumbling doofus.GM -- GET YOURSELF A NEW LEADER!I understand what you are saying but he has a lot of automotive background. Do research yoiu will find it...

[Flip-Side]

Quote, originally posted by ragingfish »Honestly, the Vibe was a huge breakthrough -- and sales have sliped since they "improved" the apperaence...I am not sure if it is just because of the economy/slumping sales, or the new design, but I have only seen a handfull of the new style vibes.Almost ALL of the vibes down here are the 03' models. There are more models on Charleston Air Force Base besides me now. But guess what? I have spotted at least 7 other owners besides myself, and they are ALL 03' Vibes. Though I don't think Luntz had anything to do with the Mini-Van mod Pontiac pulled on the vibe. Whoever did...just got minus 5 cool points. It would be minus 10, but I still like them a lot. Just not as much.