CAI vs. Ram Air?

[Z600]

Hey guys! I was just wondering how the cold air intake rates against a ram air setup. I haven't been able to find any ram air numbers posted anywhere. I'm looking for something "relatively" low priced that won't murder my mpg, 'cuz I have a long commute. Thanks! ~~Z600

[wicked1981]

I think there is only 1 member here that made his own ram air system. Nothing really available out there for ram air.

[Z600]

Hey Wicked, does Injen make a CAI especially for the Vibe, or did you have to modify it? I've been looking at AEM and Flowmaster, and they don't have anything listed. I talked to someone at AEM, and they said the Matrix CAI wouldn't fit because of some difference in the underhood cowling (I have no idea what that could be... never looked at a Matrix engine).~~Z600

[knoxville2013]

injen has one for the vibe, ptuning.com has one of the better prices.

[teammonkeys]

Injen makes them for the Vibe... I know first hand... My car was used for the proto type.

[nismo]

The best price is at Never Enough http://neverenuf.com/index.cfm...id=74I haven't seen prices lower than theirs.Inder

[wicked1981]

Quote, originally posted by Z600 »Hey Wicked, does Injen make a CAI especially for the Vibe, or did you have to modify it? I've been looking at AEM and Flowmaster, and they don't have anything listed. I talked to someone at AEM, and they said the Matrix CAI wouldn't fit because of some difference in the underhood cowling (I have no idea what that could be... never looked at a Matrix engine).~~Z600Yes I ordered mine form ptuning.com Matrix and Vibe are exacly the same dont know what the guy was trying to tell you.

[nismo]

they make an extra 30-40 bucks off of people using that excuse. Some say that the Matrix intake will fit more snugliy then the one for the vibe which is a crock.Inder

[Z600]

Which member made his own ram air? I ran across that somewhere earlier today, but I don't remember where. That sounds like an interesting option, since the pre-fabricated hoods run $900 or so. I have a little resto project Honda Z600 that I plan on making ram air for as well, though it's a much less complicated car than the Vibe(600cc engine, carb sitting right on top with air box not 12" behind).~~Z600

[ragingfish]

THERE IS a difference between the matrix/vibe intakes...The vibe intake was redesigned so it doesn't hit the headlamp assembly...

[MadBill]

.)Quote, originally posted by Z600 »Hey Wicked, does Injen make a CAI especially for the Vibe, or did you have to modify it? I've been looking at AEM and Flowmaster, and they don't have anything listed. I talked to someone at AEM, and they said the Matrix CAI wouldn't fit because of some difference in the underhood cowling (I have no idea what that could be... never looked at a Matrix engine).~~Z600Neither the AEM catalog nor their site list Vibe parts, but I bought their Matrix CAI (from Neverenuf ) for my Base and it fit just fine. (well, the wiring harness for the MAF points straight down into the rad hose, but it was easy to tie wrap for adequate clearance.)

[wicked1981]

Quote, originally posted by ragingfish »THERE IS a difference between the matrix/vibe intakes...The vibe intake was redesigned so it doesn't hit the headlamp assembly...I have an 04 and my intake from ptuning.com hits the fog lamp. I had to shub the filter a little farther up than it supposed to be to make it not hit the fog lamp. When I 1st installed it it kept unpluging the fog light harness from the fog light.

[drunkenmaxx]

i dont think anyone here has an actual functioning ram air. celtic curse has a scoop with holes cut in his hood to cool the engine, but it does not feed the intake

[ToolGuy]

I have only had cold airs in my cars and not Ram Air. But when you look at the Pontiac FireHawks and Trans AMs with ram air if you could do it, it maybe better since a Cold Air is usually behind something like a fascia. Do not get me wrong cold air is great and in the Vibes case since no Ram Air is out there would be the best. Ram Air could also produce problems if not done right with water or debris getting into the intake. Go with a cold air kit.

[MadBill]

Didn't NovaResource2 hook up functional ram air to his SLP hood?

[ballrub]

I am using the K&N Typhoon intake (which is a "short ram" intake)... ...and installed on my GT... ...and got these results on K&N's Dynojet duno... The green line is stock = 154.31whp@7600rpm.The red line is w/K&N = 165.18whp@7600rpm which equals a gain of 10.87whp.The blue line is with the addition of a Magnaflow cat-back exhaust = 171.66whp.Since then, we added this hood from Advanced Composite Specialties, which has "real" snorkel hood scoops that direct the incoming cold air to right above the K&N intake...

[Z600]

I dunno... the short rams never looked like much to me. By itself, I can't see how it would "ram" anything... it's just a short tube, rather than the big airbox setup; everything's still tucked away underneath the hood. Those added vents might help a little, but it's still not crammin' air into the intake like a real ram air system... too much room to blow around the filter into the engine compartment.I'm not dissin' your setup. It's a heckuva' lot better than what I've got (being um... nothing ). I'm just wary of spendin' on a system I don't fully understand. Nice lookin' Vibe, BTW!~~Z600

[nismo]

SLP makes a hood for our cars with a function rami air systemhttp://www.lmperformance.com/3048/53.html - The hoodhttp://www.lmperformance.com/3049/53.html - The function intake system.Inder

[BLAQJAQ]

another K&N short ram setup here..works real well for me..so you know that i'm going to recommmend it to ya

Attached files

[BLAQJAQ]

lets try this again here is my pic of short ram induction http://C:My Documentsvibeinduction.jpg

[BLAQJAQ]

sorry bout triple post

[wicked1981]

Quote, originally posted by BLAQJAQ »sorry bout triple post You can always click on edit (next to the reply button) and delete the post you dont want.

[Z600]

Quote, originally posted by BLAQJAQ » I still don't get it though... where's the "ramming" here? How can they call it that when there's no air being forced into the filter? ~~Z600

[nismo]

I used to have a Ram-Air Intake. That thing had sooo much throttle lag. After I got the Injen intake, the throttle lag was gone and the car sounded great! Inder

[Z600]

Yeah, I think I'm sold on the CAI. "Short Rams" don't really look like rams, and real ram air seems to cost a bundle. If I was gonna drop that kinda' $$$, I'd rather have some nicer rims.I notice a lot of people in the forums run on CAI. Is there much of a difference between brands? I see a lot of Injen, and a few AEM and Cosmo. Reasons? Thoughts? Recommendations?~~Z00(If this ? is a repeat, just drop the link for me)

[MadBill]

Quote, originally posted by ballrub »I am using the K&N Typhoon intake (which is a "short ram" intake)......The green line is stock = 154.31whp@7600rpm.The red line is w/K&N = 165.18whp@7600rpm which equals a gain of 10.87whp.The blue line is with the addition of a Magnaflow cat-back exhaust = 171.66whp.Since then, we added this hood from Advanced Composite Specialties, which has "real" snorkel hood scoops that direct the incoming cold air to right above the K&N intake... Some kind of cold air box is what the SR needs all right, ballrub! (I assume those dyno runs were made with the hood open, supplying it with ambient air?) Here's what I found this afternoon, when I thermocoupled my Base 5 speed with an AEM CAI.(I hooked thermocouples to my CAI filter, the general location of an SR filter, and an ambient reference, and then drove around for about an hour.): o Ambient: 79 F. o CAI filter, stopped: 110 F. o CAI " , moving at any speed: 80 F. o SR filter, hot idle, cooling fan off: 164 F. o Ditto, fan on: 154 F. o SR stop 'n go city: 135 -140 F. o SR 30 MPH cruise: 132 F. o SR 50 MPH cruise: 130 F. o SR 75 MPH cruise: 130 F. So, even at highway speeds an SR is getting air 50 degrees hotter than a CAI, and taking off from a light it can be over 80 degrees above ambient. According to the Gas Laws, the density and hence power is increased 1% for every 7 F. degrees reduction, but in the real world where hot engine components warm the air on its way to the cylinders, the rule of thumb is 1% per 10 F. degrees, which means an SR on a 1ZZ loses as much as 8% or 10 FHP from temperature alone. Bummer! (on the other hand, HAI actually helps fuel economy...)

[ballrub]

MadBill...Interesting numbers with the temperature testing! (Yes, we did the dyno runs with the hood up, but was also before we got the hood with the scoops.) You are indeed right about my "short ram" intake pulling in hot air, especially sitting at a stoplight or in stop-n-go traffic, but I have a plan. This weekend I was going to install my new Optima battery and Hose Techniques hose kit, and was going to fabricate a barrier around the filter that would be totally isolated with the exception of the air coming in from the scoops on the hood, like the K&N FIPK, and 77 Series featured on this page ( http://www.knfilters.com/kits.htm. I'm thinking that then, I'll get the best of both worlds!And what I mean by the "Best of both worlds"? Short Ram intakes for the most part allow for a greater hp increase, just for the obvious reasons that the air has less distance to travel before entering the engine. Almost all of the intake companies have quantified this with their dyno testing, which shows that the majority of CAI (tubing which is long and full of bends to get the filter in the fender, away from the hot air under the hood), lose a couple of hp compared to the short rams. But as you pointed out, you may loose that much or more due to the engine pulling back the timing to compensate for the higher temperatures of the short ram. Thus, if I can isolate the filter so it only gets cold air through my hood scoops, then viola, the extra hp from a short ram with the cold air from a CAI...the best of borth worlds! I'll keep you guys posted on the project!Steve

[MadBill]

That should work great, Steve! (and it's also nice to be able to point out to onlookers that your hood scoops aren't just for appearance.) Race engines are often tuned for Helmholtz resonance by selecting the approximately correct size for the intake plenum upstream of the runners, and then adjusting a telescoping intake pipe upstream of the throttle (like a trombone) to get the best power spread. If one did that on the Vibe, they could then add a cold air box around wherever the filter ended up... (Of course, with a little luck, the better short rams have been designed this way in the first place.)

[Celtic_Curse]

MAybe I should check the temperature under my hood since I do have the scoop installed. I wonder if the cold air blowing in is reducing the temperature in the engine bay enough for an added HP increase.

[DopeVibeGT]

CAI will definetely give you a lot more HP.