Celica No More!

[MonotoneSatellite]

Very interesting. I wonder what will happen to the 2zz?http://money.cnn.com/2004/07/1...n=yesToyota discontinuing Celica and MR2 Two-plus-two sports car and mid-engined two-seater will go away after 2005 model year.July 18, 2004: 3:00 PM EDTNEW YORK (CNN/Money) - The Toyota Celica and MR2 sports cars will no longer be sold after the 2005 model year, Toyota announced Friday. "The Celica and MR2 have been a favorite amongst sports car enthusiasts since their introductions in the U.S.," said Don Esmond, senior vice president and general manager of the Toyota Division of Toyota Motor Sales U.S.A. "The past few years, however, have been very challenging for both Celica and MR2 as competition in a segment where 'what's new' dominates and we continue to add more exciting and youthful products to the lineup such as the Matrix and Corolla XRS, Solara sports coupe and recently the Scion xA, xB and tC," he said. The Celica has been through seven generations and was first sold in the United States in 1971. At various times, the Celica has been named Motor Trend's "Import Car of the Year," one of Car and Driver's "Ten Best Cars," and the "Most Reliable Sporty Car" by Consumer Reports. The MR2, a mid-engined, rear-wheel-drive two-seater was introduced in 1985. A supercharged version of the car was introduced in 1988 and a turbocharged version in 1991. After 1995, the MR2 went out of production until 2000, when the third-generation version was introduced.

[ragingfish]

Quote, originally posted by MonotoneSatellite »I wonder what will happen to the 2zz?I know for now it is being used in the Corolla XRS. Don't forget, the Matrix XRS isn't going anywhere! Unless you know something we don't....

[NovaResource2]

The 2ZZ is also used in the Lotus Elise.

[Stang2Vibe]

I think the bigger question that is SCREAMING in my mind is why are they killing off these cars in the first place? Are we to be left with no more sporty cars under $30,000? Is this part of some kind of carmakers' conspiracy to wean us off of cars that are good looking and really fun to drive? And their excuse is that the new trend of making cars like the Scions that are (removed)-ugly, gutless, and slow as balls is what sells? Can someone puhleeeze shoot me!!! I mean, I'm not a big fan of the current Celica body style and probably wouldn't own one, but at least it is offered. Mitsubishi is probably going to go under within the next few years with their bankruptcy problems, so there goes the Eclipse (which I'm also not a big fan of, but still). Now the Celica and MR2 are being killed, the Supra was killed off a few years ago (I really liked that car). GM axed the Firebird/Camaro/Trans Am platform and isn't showing any signs of bringing out cars like them to fill the gap (the GTO doesn't count--it's bland looking and priced well out of this category even though it does make nice power). And Chrysler, pffft, forget about them, they haven't had a powerful, inexpensive, and sporty offering for decades. That leaves the Ford Mustang as the last bastion of hope for this market segment. I'm crushed! Even though the upcoming Mustang looks to be incredibly sweet, I'd still like to have more than just one choice. I was really looking forward to the next major redesign of the Celica to see if I liked the bodystyle. Might very well have been my next new car. Looks like I'll have to go and pay a visit to my neighborhood Ford dealer in the future if things don't shape up. Maybe (hopefully?) this is setting up a Toyota publicity stunt to introduce a replacement for the Celica that will have a new name. It's not the now aged name or a change in carbuyer's tastes that caused slow Celica sales, not even the somewhat funky bodystyling, but I think it was the uncomfortable, teeny-tiny interior, high price for what you are getting, and a top available horsepower offering that peaks out at 180 HP---and that engine doesn't work well with an automatic transmission. Also, the Celica was placed by insurance companies in the sports car category, making it quite expensive to insure. That was another major factor in my Vibe purchase, I could get the same engine, transmission, and HP in a Pontiac Vibe as the top performing Celica, pay less for the Vibe up front, and insure it for about half as much. Throw in that the Vibe has a far more spacious and comfortable interior and as long as sports car styling isn't the most important factor on your car buying list, the choice between the two is a no-brainer.The more I think about it, this decision to kill these cars just flat-out ticks me off.

[millster]

Quote, originally posted by Stang2Vibe »And their excuse is that the new trend of making cars like the Scions that are (removed)-ugly, gutless, and slow as balls is what sells?Not so much the case really. The Scion tC is not exactly slow. For an economy car, it can move pretty well.According to C&D, it's nearly up there with the IS300.http://www.caranddriver.com/ar...=8288

[Stang2Vibe]

Thanks for posting the article, millster, it was very informative. I hadn't yet heard of the tC from Scion. Admittedly, after seeing their first 2 offerings I had given up on them and lost interest. Though much better than the xA and xB in my eyes (and is much easier to stomach), I'd still say that the tC lacks a lot that keeps it out of the sports/performance car category.One thing I absolutely hate for sure about Scion is the fact that there is only one version of each model. No performance versions, no economy/entry level versions, etc. Everything is the same plain-jane version. Side airbags and an auto tranny are the only available options. Aside from some dealer add-ons (obviously designed to inflate dealer profits), there is really nothing exciting about getting one with some nice options. Overpriced bazooka speakers and interior neon kits will appeal to some, but they do nothing to make the car sportier or faster. And faster is the key theme here. That's where the Celica went wrong. A Sporty image that couldn't back itself with true performance. The thing that the Celica has going for it is a strong performance tuner aftermarket.The tC is a decent offering as far as new cars go, and seems to show signs of a good value. But overall, it seems more "me too" rather than "look at me". I find the interior boring and bland. The exterior looks like the mutant offspring of a shrunken Mercury Sable and a Saturn Ion. Stealing the powerplant and transmission choices from the base model Camry, oh how exciting. Someone wake me up when this nightmare is over. Great, another Japanese car that will run forever but that I wish wouldn't. 160 HP and 163 LB/ft torque are acceptable numbers for a car in it's price range and for your regular ho-hum daily driver. Weighing in over 3,000 LBS though doesn't help its' cause much, either. Seems that the handling needs a little work also, or at least some option for a sport or performance package that beefs up the suspension.I like how the magazine balanced out the article with some feedback from a few other reviewers. I find some of their comments very interesting and lend themselves to a better picture of this car overall. The author of the main article seems to get his jollies off of an economy car with a little bit (but not a lot) of zip. What some of the other reviewers had to say:Quote, originally posted by LARRY WEBSTER »"I expected different—and cool—with the tC, but it feels a lot like same-old, same-old. Despite the decent acceleration times, there's just not enough (removed) to raise my eyebrows, and the chassis has none of the friskiness I'd want in a little coupe. It's a lot less fun than it is composed, comfortable, and refined. I know it's a few grand cheaper than my choice for cheap wheels, the Dodge SRT-4, but it feels a lot farther away in terms of performance and fun."Quote, originally posted by TONY QUIROGA »"best of all, enough power to keep up with a base Acura RSX. It's heavy at 3016 pounds, and the weight makes itself known at the handling limit..."Huh? A sporty car that only keeps up with a base RSX? Sorry folks, I've driven my g/f's RSX and it still leaves much to be desired in the acceleration department.Quote, originally posted by TONY SWAN »This isn't the surrogate sports car the Scion people would like us to perceive. The 2.4-liter four delivers respectable go and is easier to live with than the 1.8-liter engine used in the Celica GT-S, but the tC is a little too soft to be taken seriously as a sports coupe—too much up and down in the suspension, too much body roll.Uh huh. Not exactly what I wanted to hear. So let's see now, I get a cheaper to buy replacement for the Celica that doesn't accelerate as well (even though the acceleration of the Celica is somewhat lacking for what it is), and doesn't handle as well, but picks up some cheap and even funkier looks. Ummm, this is really hard but, I think I'll have to pass. Maybe I'd give it a second look when it grows up a little and straps on a set, but for now if my Vibe can still outrun it, I'm not very interested.

[Jahntassa]

I still say they need to re-release the Probe. THAT..was a sports car. Granted..it had a measly 160 HP in the V6...but..it was still a sportscar.

[Fformula88]

Quote, originally posted by Jahntassa »I still say they need to re-release the Probe. THAT..was a sports car. Granted..it had a measly 160 HP in the V6...but..it was still a sportscar.I definately agree with you. The engine doesn't sound impressive now, but in 1993 when it appeared it was respectable. The car rode nice and handled great!Toyota is not thinking past its nose on this deal. The Celica is everything the Tc wishes it could be except in the engine department. The 2.4L in the TC would absolutely rock in the Celica, especially with the available supercharger. They are replacing a distinctively styled sport coupe with an overweight 2 door version of a Euro 4 door sedan with the styling of an egg and a nice engine. The price on the TC is nice, especially with its standard features so long as you stay away from the options list.The Celica weighs in about 300 or more pounds lighter than the TC (which is over 3000 lbs!). The TC is just way too heavy. It will end up being more of a chick car than the base Celica GT is.

[Reynoma]

I'm not sure I get where Toyota is thinking. They create the Scion brand because they feel the "Toyota" brand is not appealing to the younger crowd. Now, in order to make that even worse, they are axing two of the cars that appeals most to a younger crowd. I don't get it?

[Stang2Vibe]

And the worst thing is that they aren't even replacing the cars that they are dropping, they're just adding 2 funky new ones and 1 that is a sports car wannabe. I thought that change for the sake of progress was supposed to lead to improvements and advancements, not regression. Whoever is orchestrating this move needs a few donks on the head.