Decision of my cars life

[Evanshall]

Heres the endless peril!recently stratford engineering has introduced a seccussful turbo which will be avaliable for the GT, we almost all know this by now, and here is why im posting this in the Engine section, if im waiting for this turbo should i just bypass getting a CAI, exhaust, unichip, and save for turbo so i can be one of the first GTs (maybe, probably not but maybe) with a turbo?!? or shoul di just get the engine parts because overall thell help the turbo as well?!?! or shoul di just get the engine parts because there more badass then i think?!? orrr?!?what shoul di do?!? looking at it now, about (rounding up) 300 on intake, about 600 on exhaust(custom piping) and 700 on unichip, 1600 dollars, now the kist from stratford is supposed to be about twice that, shoul di just wait, or shoul di go for it and enjoy it well i can!one thing taht is nagging at my engine mod ide ais the fact exhaust intake and unichip will not kill my MPG nearly as bad or at all like the turbo, which will totally crush my MPG suposidlyWHAT SHALL I DO!!!

[AKLGT]

just keep in mind that if you turbo that 2zz engine, you will need to do some major major work on it. not just adding a turbo. you got cams, pistons, rods, exhaust (anyways), intercooler, clutch, etc. just ask jeff how much work he's put into his. and also, gas..... he puts 94 octane in his! we can't even get 94 in alaska! all things to consider when you do this if you do.

[Stang2Vibe]

One bit of advice that I will offer is that the CAI probably won't fit with the turbo kit unless it is a custom built one. I can't say for sure but I would think that the intake and exhaust routing will change with the addition of the turbocharger because they both have to be fed into the turbo.

[Evanshall]

yah personally if i ever did get a turbo it would probably be a year atleast money wise, id really have to save, an dthen work really hard once i got itanyways just wonderingand!...i do have 94 octane at my local Maijors gas station, and for some other reason which is a coencidence my mom gave me about 50 dollars worth of gas cards to maijors, of course now adays thats only about 2 fill ups

[AKLGT]

to be honest w/ you, the turbo was sweet indeed. but after spending all that money already on the gt, and then spend another $3-5K to add a turbo, i'd just get rid of the gt and get a sport car for that kinda money.

[satur9]

you wont need an intake.stafford provides the electonics for the kit, however you could use the unichip instead ,but you would have to pay for tuning as theres isnt any maps yet.wait for the turbo to get a turbo sized exhaust. so bassically save your money.the turbo is designed to run on stock internals (at the reccomended boost levels)so you wont NEED the parts trdvibe reccomended. but they are good insurance for low boost and necessary if you plan on uping the boost(cept cams you wont need to change those.) possibly valves and springs but the rpms are not increasing so i doubt it.

[goodvibe]

I agree with saturn but be aware that you will probably turn a 200k motor into a 100k motor.

[Merzbow]

It's all about being unique and different which is why we all spend money on our Vibes. Even if I spent a total of $30,000 on this car I would rather have it spent on this tricked out Vibe than on a plain stock $30,000 sports car. obviously insurance is considered for us kids as well so we have no choice but to pool all our money into the Vibe as oposed to trying to save for a 350z or something....well, I'm saving for a bike, but you get what I'm saying

[Smokin' Rubber]

Yeah like TRD was saying you have to spend an awful lot of money on your car if you want to have a decent turbo set upthe following is a list of prices and or things you would probabaly want if you got a turboStafford or XS Engineering Turbo kits------$5000Forged Wiseco Pistons-----------------------$500Forged Crower Connecting Rods-------------$750New transmission----------------------------$1500 (this is a guess) *our trannies can only take about 265 hpNew brake rotors +calipers------------------$1000 *not essential but as safety measure_______________________________________________---------------------------------------Total= $8750 Quite a bit of money if you ask me. I mean you can definitely get alot more horsepower out of the car but it requires some serious moolah. So the grand total for money spent on your GT would be about $32,000 before taxes lol. You can buy a Subaru WRX STi for about the same price which will basically be **** loads faster than our cars sadly. Although since my parents bought the car for me I guess I'm only in the hole about $2000 =D so the extra $8750 wouldn't be so bad hehe.

[Stang2Vibe]

$1500 for a beefed up tranny seems quite low. Might be able to build up the stock one for that much if parts can be found.

[Smokin' Rubber]

Well there ya go just goes to show for a nice turbo system ya gotta dish out quite a bit of cash lol but then again you get more hp out of it as well. Or you can do NA tuning and get around 13.5:1compression and 9,000 rpm's which would probably be a little cheaper but for less hp

[Faultline]

Quote, originally posted by goodvibe »I agree with saturn but be aware that you will probably turn a 200k motor into a 100k motor. I agree with goodvibe, who agrees with saturn I am from the department of the redundancy department 1st of all , I heard a rumor on newcelica.org,regarding a mention of the SF turbo Vibe gt in a upcoming addition of Turbo magazine....I have not verified this though, maybe one of you guys will spot it 1st. The 2zz kit will be somewhere between $3k and $4k...that is a big range, but very sure. The 2zz kit will range from 5psi to 8psi tuned and safe. Smaay has his 2zz celica running 11psi. He is testing the motor and tranny limits as he is waiting to put a built motor in like "TRD Vibe" described. Smaay's kit is SF. The SF turbo was my 1st mod on my base Vibe. You can look at my Sig to see the stuff i have added over the last 19 months, which is how reliable the kit is so far, but goodvibe maybe right about 100k. I am happy with that idea, I only have 25k miles on my car. If you want to do any mods while you wait for the turbo, go for a larger cat back exhaust. The SF kit down pipe will hook up to your 1st cat. Add to bigger exhaust a high flow air filter, but I would hold off on the cai, as the kit will replace that.Motor mount inserts, clutch,light flywheel, Lsd are also other mods that will help prepare for the turbopower, and still help you now. sway bars, and STB's will too. all those things are a big chunk of change, but like I said , the turbo kit was my 1st mod, And if that is what you need to do, then do that. You can drive stock with a turbo only. , add the other stuff later.The kit will be complete, you wont need anything else , except the heart attack pills in the glove box

[Evanshall]

ok good vibe i know what you mean, but say if i took everymesure possibly to keep the engine in good check(turbo timers etc) and usually ran it on low boost (4psi) i would hope i could get more then 100k out of the motor, anyways heres my math03 GT 12kturbo kit lets say 5k including that i get turbo timners ETC for engine18k, motor mounts, clutch, tires?!?! maybe up to another 5k at the most23k...now im running a stable car with 250hp to the wheels, i can buy a S2000 for 32k, and get 190hp ot the wheels, for a car thats the same weight, as well the statment about subarus (basically AWD cars) being all together faster is only true in low end speed, AWD kills top speeds, my friend knows a guy with 450+ whp evolution, and even with upgraded gearing the car refuses to go much over 160, although it gets to 60 amazingly fast (should be about 3.3-3.8) after that its 0-100 and so forth suffer for a car with a power to weight ratio of about..?!? .13 or sonone the less i think i decided ill aleast get the cold air intake as its cheap, and will probably keep me intertained for just long enouph i can save up for a large mod like a turbo, as the GT is even with alot of other carsm nycg of which look fast but arnt that fast (RSX, Celica GTS, etc etc) just enouph so im faster then them anyways i think ill decide all this when i actually start getting the money, then ill be able to decide, its possible 1600 dollars worth of mods isnt bad price, and it would probably be a learning experience at not to fast of f pace for a newbie like me, anyways id like to get a turbo but i should sereisly wait on it, as of the many things besides the turbo ill need to control the power(clutch, toires, mounts , turbo timer etc etc)

[Smokin' Rubber]

Well the theoretical top speed for our car based on 6th gear is 175 but it would be so hard to get to that lol so the STi is still faster for the same price

[goodvibe]

Wrx motors are also built for turbocharging and show some of the lowest wear rates on used oil analisis, even when raced. A really good motor.

[AKLGT]

i tell ya, i don't know what i'd do if i got rid of my gt. i miss my tundra a lot but w/ the gas prices.... and i love the sports car feel! so good thing i don't have to worry about for awhile anyways! but imho, i think the cai, exhaust, chip is the best route to go for our gt's. it's the best bang for the buck w/o spending $5K and the chance of the engine blowing to smithereens or warranties being completely voided! you can take the chip out in 15 mins like it was never there!

[Evanshall]

TRD i think ill just do what i you said basicaly, wont kill gas milage, wont kill engine, will improve power qeute wellanywaysQuote, originally posted by Smokin' Rubber »Well the theoretical top speed for our car based on 6th gear is 175 but it would be so hard to get to that lol so the STi is still faster for the same price ;-)actually i did a search and our vibes stock are more aerodynamic then a WRX STi, STi being .33 and our vibes being .32, now we dont have much downforce, but still we have roof racks and high suspensions to slow us down that we can improve on, anyways i was supprised by that too but w00t!

[Smokin' Rubber]

Wth that makes no sense lol the vibe has a larger front than the STi which means there is more air being pushed to the side how is it we have better aerodynamics

[Evanshall]

probably because of downforce acheiving spoilers taht atcually help the car grip, if you could take those off then it would probably be more areodynamic, as well the vibes front end is split from left to right, and that SHOULD help, as most cars are designed with a flat front end, and that can hurt alot, as well keep in mind (althoufgh its hard to see with the roof racks on) we have a very rounded roof, and tail, having a completly flat tail kills areodynics, and we dont really have to worrie about that so much!!anyways id recommend doing more research but im pretty confident being i got the same results for those number at every site i went too

[Smokin' Rubber]

I believe you I just think thats funny

[goodvibe]

I believe that the CD and frontal area are seperate specs for cars. A car with more frontal area like ours can have a lower CD but more total drag force than something smaller but with a higher CD. A good recognizable example would be a tiny Lotus Elise which has a CD of .42 or a big Honda Odyssey Van with a Cd of .33. Which do you think takes more power to cruise at 60. How do you get to 250HP on 4 pounds of boost. If your going to run 8 pounds sometimes to get there, that will have an effect on 2zz longevity and it may be difficult to optimize the tune for both. I know you want it all but it doesn't work that way. If I wanted to turbo my motor I would start with a 1zz. Both motors make about the same hp when blown. The 1zz starts cheaper and benefits more from a turbo. The tranny's the limit, so the stronger bottom of the 2zz matters little.

[Evanshall]

hmm, thanks for the info, anyways i think ill just get the natrual asperation stuff, and then after that ill work on(or try to) cure the handling, i want more oversteer MWHAHA, or atleast a lower center of gravity

[Faultline]

Quote, originally posted by Evanshall »ok good vibe i know what you mean, but say if i took everymesure possibly to keep the engine in good check(turbo timers etc) and usually ran it on low boost (4psi) i would hope i could get more then 100k out of the motor, anyways heres my math)I think that if you keep the boost in the prescribed setting you will get more than 100k miles. It is just that it is easy to get greedy, and then you start upping the boost, and in the 2zz case you might start running 8psi all the time. Then you do things like add water/alcohol injection so that you can up the boost a little more!...And that is pushing things.. You maybe thinking, " I am happy N/A, if I go turbo , that will be enough, just 4psi, the extra 50 hp will be enough, I wont need to go higher"..But it is easy to have all your expectation chang w/ turbo. You start thinking you need to kill the 350z, wrx, evolution,srt-4, rsx, s2000 ,tsx ...and you want to go after that z06 just to make him sweat...and feel bad about his $40k car.If you can keep your sights in chek, then you will be ok...I really just enjoy driving my car w/ turbo..I luv simple things, like accelerating on steep fwy on ramps on steep grades as i easily pass merging traffic because my car is pulling so well, the power is fabulous. I dont get crazy about kills ,untill I get to the trak.Turbo + Vibe = Blast. It is just so much fun to drive. When the turbo kiks in.....guarenteed smile

[dsegundo]

Turbo kit doesn't have include all the crap you need to make it workable?

[satur9]

yeah you get all the crap needed to make it workable.

[Evanshall]

now im starting to think NOS(maybe just a small dry shot, 35?), o god help me, i need to get the basics first, once i prove to myself that i can successfully get small things like intake and exhaust then maybe i should think about this, but wooooos, omega wooooos, im going crazy

[Stang2Vibe]

The aerodynamics have nothing to do with the theoretical top speed that was mentioned earlier. The theoretical top speed of 175 MPH was probably reached by plugging in the Vibe's top gear ratio and RPM limit (at redline) into a mathematical equation to calculate the top speed that our car's mechanical system could achieve. The aerodynamics only come into play when power output is specified. Obviously, as the car encounters more wind resistance it will need more power to overcome it in order to keep accelerating. The force of the wind resistance is also an exponential factor, as more power will be required to accelerate the car for each successive increment of acceleration. Dear God, now I've confused myself. MadBill always does a much better job of explaining these things. But if anyone can follow all of this, I'm sure that they can confirm it.

[MadBill]

As Goodvibe says, total aerodynamic drag is determined by drag coefficient (Cd) times frontal area (X), thus drag = CdX. So for example a motorcycle might have a Cd of 0.7, but because its frontal area is about 1/4 that of a slippery sports car with a Cd of say 0.3, its total aero drag would still be less.(Hmmm... I posted this without even noticing that Stang had invoked my name! So now I'll add a few more words of confusion): Drag increases as the square of the speed, and the required power increases as the cube, so for example, if a car had X pounds of drag at 60 MPH, and took 16 HP to maintain that speed, it would have 4X drag at 120 and require 128 HP to overcome it.When we say "theoretical" top speed, we mean "if we had enough horsepower to reach peak power (or maybe the red line) in top gear" Once upon a time cars were often geared correctly for top speed. (Although American muscle cars were often "under-geared" for better acceleration. For example, my '70 Z28 is factory equipped with 4.10:1 gears. It turns almost 4,000 RPM at 70 MPH and with a few enginge mods would reach 135 MPH at a giddy 7,500 RPM, but it took only about 1/2 throttle to do so!) Nowadays, top gear is strictly for economy, so it's unrealistic to think of reaching the power peak.

[Smokin' Rubber]

very true, the Vibe would probably need roughly 425 horsepower + to make it to the 175 theoretical top speed