engine noise after syntheic pretty obnoxious

[syclnjr]

Hey all I am sure that there are some of you out there that have written to a forum some where that covers this but I have yet to find it. Any way I am wondering if all of our cars sound like a VW diesel. It is not to bad when I first start it up but after the car has warmed up a bit and the oil thins out it seems to get pretty loud. from the right side of the motor so it is not the purge valve. I did switch to synthetic at 3,000 miles with fram filter and Mobil one 5W30. Would AMSoil and there filter help this problem. It doesn't seem to take away from the power but I don't think that it is supposed to be like that. I am afraid that there is something mis adjusted and I am going to bend something. And have any of you had trouble with you cars sounding like it has an exhaust leak. I don't know I am probably being ridiculous but I love my vehicles and I would hate to have something go wrong with them, Thanks in advance.Mike

[ragingfish]

I use Mobil 1 5W-30 and AC/Delco or Toyota filters routinely without incident. If you don't want to use AMSOil, you don't need to use it, Mobil 1 is fine.Not sure what the problem could be. Only thing I can think of is maybe you refilled with too much or too little oil? How much did you fill with?

[Mr. Poopypants]

I use Mobil One with Purolator PureOne filters and don't have that problem. You may want to think about taking it to the dealer to check it out. Keep in mind though that a tapping type of noise is common and regular in the 1ZZ and 2ZZ engine.

[DavidPIL]

hi syclnjr,I'm not sure what your problem could be but I'm using Mobil One oil now and haven't noticed any increase in sound. Actually, I've noticed the engine seeming to run a bit more effortlessly. I did have a long trip to South Carolina 2 months ago where after filling up at an Exxon, noticed sluggishness and a major increase in engine noise. I came to the conclusion that my problem was the wrong Octane gas coming out of the pump. I added some octane boost at a little over half tank, filled up with 93 octane then within 30 miles or so, it was back to normal.I would check the oil level for sure. Make sure the car is on level ground when you do. My first oil change, the Quick Lube place put in too much oil. Didn't seem to increase sound but I did notice a loss of power after long trips.One other thing I've done is that I've gone from the standard size filter (fram 4967 or M1-103) up to a slightly larger filter (M1-102/K&N HP-1002). This also seemed to make everything run much more smoothly. Don't know if this helps for now but might be something to consider down the road...Dave

[Mr. Poopypants]

Nice post david, that is another thing to consider, I know that after switching from regular to plus, I noticed a decrease in noise, and an increase in power and fuel efficiency. Maybe try running a higher octane gas.

[ebslopp]

I've been using Mobile One since 3000, and haven't noticed an increase in noise. I have noticed a significant increase in gas milage, but I think that has to do more with my engine being broken in.

[goodvibe]

My 2nd change at 5000 mi was to M1 5w 30 and I too felt it made the engine noisier. Next change, I went with something else and it quieted down again. This is a common complaint about M1 in a variety of motors. It may not mean much in terms of longevity but M1 often shows elevated Fe. in used oil analysis which is an indicator for the valvetrain in modern aluminium motors though these motors will last for over 200k mi. with whatever you put in them if you change it on time. An oversize filter may help on extended drain intervals or flow if the standard size is very restrictive but can actually make the oil take longer to reach the top end of the motor on start up when you need it most. Pure Ones and MI filters are restrictive but filter extremely well. Flow is more important. Frams are the worst with very little filter media and cardboard end caps. I use a Wix(NAPA Gold, Carquest blue) but the oem is fine. I would just throw some dino in and see if it gets better, than find my long term oil and stick with it. If your going to mail order, look at Synergyn and Schaeffers blend. Over the counter there is a synth Castrol 0w 30 that will say 'made in Germany' on the bottle that should quiet it down and protect extremely well. I first found the following board after I realized that M1 wasn't for me. http://theoildrop.server101.co...00000

[pa-vibe]

I have a little over 2000 miles on my Vibe and changed to Mobil 1 at 1500 miles. I noticed that I have a terrible valve train noise when cold or after driving 50 miles on the highway. It did this with conventional oil also. Another point of interest is my fuel ecomony really sucks @ 28 mpg highway. I am taking into pontiac to have them check it out and will post the results.

[futseal04]

I run Mobil 1 syn with a Mobil 1 filter and don't have any problems. Sounds like it may be in the valve train. I don't know how these cars are set up (with the exception of manually adjusted lifters), but a way that you can find out where the noise is coming from is toget a screwdriver, hold the tip to the motor, and put your ear to the handle. Put it over different points until the noise is the loudest. Do that and then tell us where it is.....

[syclnjr]

What is going on guys. Thanks for all the replies.Here is the skinny on the things that you have asked.I to am getting no more than 28 miles a gallon and that is 95 percent highway driving at 75 to 80. The noise sounds like valve lash to me but I am not all that knowledgeable when it comes to things like that.When I changed the oil the book called for 4.8 quarts but since the original Toyota filter that came on it was bigger it seemed like it only took about 4.5. I called the dealer and they said that I should fill until it was full and that the filter was going to be ok. It seems like pa-vibe and I are having the same difficultly with this. I think that my only resort is to take it to the dealer and have them tell me that it is normal like they have told me with everything else which I find to be horse****. I can understand that the motor is going to sound a bit noisey due to the comprssion ratio and other factors but this is ridiculous. correct me if I am wrong but wouldn't going to like 0W30 make it more noisey, I don't know.On my car and I don't know if your guys cars are the same but it is hard to tell if the oil is definitely full. It seems that there is plenty of oil on the dipstick but then closee to the full line it starts to get spattery and then stops at the full mark. Should I put the extra .3 of a quart in that I didn't when I changed the oil or should I love it alone? I have always used Shell 93 octane in it so I don't think that that is the trouble unless there is better gas out there that I am not finding. Well thanks again all I will try to check to see where the noise is eminating from tonight when I get home and I will let you all know. Later

[DavidPIL]

Hiya syclnjr.It does seem that some of the GM service techs are very stupid about the Vibe and it's inner workings. I hope you get some satisfactory results from them.My comment about the gas was not that a particular brand was worse than the other (though I do like Exxon and Marathon best) but the fact that some pumps, especially the ones where one handle services all 3 grades might actually give you the wrong Octane. I wish there was a fast way to tell the actual octane of the gas direct from the pump.Some people have mentioned that sometimes the tanker person might put the wrong grade into the tank, though they're usually clearly marked with a color coding system. My loudness seemed to be caused by the octane issue because my first solution (adding a $4 bottle of octane boost) soon made the issue go away. Can't say mine sounded like a diesel when idling but when accelerating, it was just plain loud.Oh, and one more thing... For me, I was well below 30 mpg for a couple months then now I'm easily 31-33mpg on the highway. If I go much over 75 or so, my mileage does start dropping again, and especially if there's any headwind, my MPG can drop 2-5 mpg on the highway from the 31-33 I normally get.Well, enough of my babbling... Hope all eventually works out for you.Dave

[futseal04]

Try putting in another half quart (if you aren't at full already), and see if that clears it up. I have had OHC motors that have valvetrain noise, and that is usually the first indication that oil level is low. I had an Escort with SOHC, and valve chatter told me that it was about a quart low. (I never had to change the oil in that......it had a slow leak so I could just transfuse oil over about a 4 month period...just changed the filter twice a year).I know that some will disagree with this, but Lucas also helped in that case. Someone will post a link to the Lucas thread, but I think that Bob the Oil guy's test was skewed based on my experience with lubrication in everything from car engines to steam turbines.

[syclnjr]

well I stopped and filled er up at the Amoco station to see if that helps anything but we will see and I see how a single pump could do that. And of course I arrived home I didn't hear anything out of the ordinary. It is hard to believe that the gas did the trick, I will listen more tonight and tomorrow when I go to work. I checked the oil and it is full so I am not going to add anymore to it I think that would be a bad thing as the seals could blow and cause engine lag I assume. I am not to sure what I am going to do about this I think that I am going to find a Toyota dealer to take it to so that they can have a listen then I will take it to my dealer to see what they think. The mileage is steadily incresing with just under 5000 mile on her. Usually when I fill up I do it when the light comes on. to give me a bit of an average to see how mny miles I can go on a tank. I got 300 this time and last week it was 280 so I think that it is getting better. I am afraid that I am going to bend avalve or soemthing with this clatter I will call the dealer tomorrow to see what they think. Thanks all.Later

[goodvibe]

In a 0w 30 the 30 part indicates the viscosity when warm and it will behave like a 0 when cold. Some folks also don't understand that this means it still always get thicker as it gets colder. In the case of the German Castrol, it's a heavy 30w where M1 is light 30w but even 0w 40 M1 shows the noise character, so it's more than just the weight of the oil here.

[pa-vibe]

I have been working on cars for awhile now and the noise is definitely the valvetrain. It is very similar to having a low oil level or pressure issue. The dip stick, however, indicates full level. I have an appointment on Monday to get it checked out by the GM authority. They are also telling me that I have to wait until 5000 miles inorder to properly have them check out the fuel effeincy problem. I don not like this as it will take me out of the lemon law statute of limitaions. Anyway I'll relay any news on this topic to this thread.Thanks

[pa-vibe]

also the oil weight issue. I am running 5w30 as the manufacturer specifies. This should be ok considering the mild climate we have this time of year. Even if this is causing the noise problem I think maybe the fuel economy would not be an issue. This is unless I need say a 0/50 weight. But this seems rather unlikley. I am leaning toward a variable valve timing issue or maybe a lash issue.

[goodvibe]

Gt or base? Oh I forgot about the overfill thing. It's common practice for autocross when the car can hold close to one G to stop oil starvation but shouldn't do much here as the oil pickup is well down in the pan and it needs to get pumped up to the valve train. If you put too much in you can touch the crank with the oil bath and froth the oil which is really bad. That 1/2 extra quart recommendation wouldn't hurt anything tough.

[syclnjr]

pa-vibe drop me a line and let me know how it goes with yours. I think that I am going to go with the 0W30 Castrol the next time I change the oil. And you know the funny thing is that I went over 5000 on the way to work this morning and I found that the valve noise seemed to be less, I am not sure that this has anything to do with it. I will see how this tank of gas turns out as far as mileage since I am over the 5000 threshold. I still think that on mine it sound too like there is an exhaust leak or even an intake leak, I don't know I don't have any GT's in my area to compare with so I am not sure how it is suposed to sound. My wife and I are going to try and make it out to the Michigan meet but we are buying a house so if I close soon enough we will be there if not maybe next year. Anyways. Thanks again all I will be in touch and pa-vibe let me know what happens. Later

[goodvibe]

pa-vibe, If you have a GT, your mileage isn't a problem. That's why I asked. Don't forget about 'made in Germany' on the Castrol 0w 30.

[pa-vibe]

Well I took my vibe to the dealer and here is what they had to say. -The valve tap is normal. When I asked why it did it the service manager said he doesn't know but others do it.-The fuel mileage is ok because some of the tanks are acheiving a top fuel mileage that is not ten percent lower than the range. Which he proceeded to tell me was 24-29 mpg. I told him that he was incorrect and he said he compared it to a brand new vibe's sticker. It turns out they only have AWD and auto's there. I have an 04 base 5spd. He said we can do a mileage test @ 5k if I am so inclined, but the vehicel will pass he is sure of it. This dealership has not been a pleasure to deal with at all, but then agian I am used to dealing with a Saturn dealership who would actually recommend other shops that are cheaper if they knew of one. Anyway, I do not think that GM dealerships have less knowledgable technicians as a whole, but perhaps have less experience with the working of this vehicle. Anyway I am done ranting for now had a race with a Civic coming home today. no wonder the mileage sucks....

[ragingfish]

Just curious, what dealership do you go to?I know the lancaster area fairly well....my brother went to F&M, spent much time out there...

[syclnjr]

That is a shame dude I was hoping that we would get some kindof conclusion to this scenario. Mine is still making the racket so I am going ona long trip for the first time and after I get back I think that I am going to switch to Castrol Syntec 0W30. I think that may due the trick. Another thing that I think is going on is that I have an exhaust leak. It sounds terrible in the mornings when I start it up but once it warms up it isn't as bad. I think that I am going to let this stuff go for a while then take it in with a list of stuff that is going on and have it all fixed at once. Well got to run. Oh how bad did you spank the Civic. hopefully good.Later

[pa-vibe]

I didn't want to bad mouth the dealership but besides the story you already read they also sold me a bad vehicle previous to this one. In thier defence they bought back the "bad" vehicle, 2003 Matrix XRS, nad gave me this for the same $$. Jack Giambolvo is the dealership. They are located in York County, I just moved here. I'll go to Jones from now on. The Civic I think gave up, but it was fun while he was trying. He may have won if he didn't stop. I am not a Honda fan, so anytime I can put a Honda away I'm happy.

[syclnjr]

Well I am back from the trip that I had to go on and I haven't changed the oil yet but let me tell you the Vibe especially a GT is a highway car. I ran about 70-75 and I ran like 410 miles on the first tank and that is before the gas light came on and the second I got about 415 or so. I thought that was damn good. Just thought I would let you all know.Later I will keep you updated with the oil change.

[goodvibe]

Wow, That's about 100 more than me in mostly highway. Of coarse my right foot weighs a lot.

[blk182@n7]

I have noticed a noise also on my GT, i use mobil 1 5w 30 and m1-103 filter, i am still thinking about chaging to royal purple oil as I used it in my sp360 and my GTP and it worked very well...

[millster]

Quote, originally posted by syclnjr »...I ran like 410 miles on the first tank and that is before the gas light came on and the second I got about 415 or so. I thought that was damn good. Just thought I would let you all know.My God, what is the deal with this? I get 300 per tank on a good day. Anyway, I've noticed a bit of clacking as well from my engine. I was picking up dinner a couple nights ago and I didn't want to believe it was my car making all that racket. I've been using Mobil-1 since about 3000 miles and now have almost 19000. Other than a little noise, the only real problem I've had is that the dealer insists on putting 1/2 quart too much in the engine. Every single time.

[goodvibe]

There might be a problem with swithing to the Castrol. It's a heavy 30w that stays in grade so your milaege might drop. M1 5w 30 is a light 30w that shears down to the 20w range pretty quickly but will get you better gas mileage because of it. The motor is probably better off with a true 30w. RP also shears very quickly unless you get their racing 21 which will void your warranty but behaves like a stable 10w 30. M1 10w 30 stays in grade better than the 5w but is still on the light side of 30 and all the mobiles are loud in some motors regardless of weight.