Paint Issues - Who has problems and who doesn't

joatmon · Post by **joatmon** » Sat Nov 08, 2003 9:41 am

GM must be planning on doing something, because according to this article in the Toronto Star :GM aims to top Toyota on qualityPlans to lead J.D. Power survey by 2005 model yearCan't see that unless they come up with better paint, although they article does say "initial quality"

Flip-Side · Post by **Flip-Side** » Mon Feb 23, 2004 2:57 am

Quote, originally posted by joatmon Â»Can't see that unless they come up with better paint, although they article does say "initial quality"GM tries to cut corners at every turn to save cash at the expense of quality. I hope that they do the right thing and improve the paint, and it better be at least 5 fold.

MJN2 · Post by **MJN2** » Mon Feb 23, 2004 3:48 am

I replied fair, but last summer the front end and hood of my car was repainted by my local body shop after being rear-ended and shoved into the SUV in front of me. Prior to that, the paint on the front looked like garbage. Major "orange peel" on the bumper and the chips were getting ridiculous on the leading edge of the hood.

mrgrn · Post by **mrgrn** » Thu Feb 26, 2004 1:17 am

i said repaint with 14k miles on it. i can't wash the car without leaving huge scratches everywhere. the front looks like it was sand blasted, there are scratches on the sides and the cladding looks like it was sanded.i have a lease and it will be bare after 40k miles, what am i to do? surely they will charge me a repaint fee when i return it right? this is total bull**** IMO, i have a car with 170k miles on it with hardly any scratches on it, the vibe i can scratch the clear with my fingernail, and i chew them

Flip-Side · Post by **Flip-Side** » Wed Mar 03, 2004 12:12 pm

Quote, originally posted by mrgrn Â» i said repaint with 14k miles on it. i can't wash the car without leaving huge scratches everywhere. the front looks like it was sand blasted, there are scratches on the sides and the cladding looks like it was sanded. You just described my car right now....but now mines even worse. Its so bad...i thought there were lots of bugs left on the front after washing the car. So i get out my bug/tar remover, and find that the marks are not bugs....they are marks in the paint where the bugs hit!!!!I already have rust spots all over from chips (not under warranty when chipped), my hood looks like swiss cheese, a clean towel leaves scratches in the paint, and my front-end now looks like I've been rally racing for 5 years. Had it for 1.5 years now....29,000 miles. Waxed twice a year too.GM...I will never buy from you again. Like GM cares to keep customers.

ragingfish · Post by **ragingfish** » Wed Mar 03, 2004 12:28 pm

I honestly don't think it's GM. I think it's NUMMI!My mom's 2000 GP and my dad's 1998 GA have TOPS, 1-2 chips on the ENTIRE CAR. They drive even more than I do. Their paint is in near-pristine condition.Mine, on the other hand, well...not gonna go there, too sensitivie a topic...

AKLGT · Post by **AKLGT** » Wed Mar 03, 2004 4:06 pm

ya, actually the folks 2002 impala has literally no paint chips. and that's even w/ me driving it back to fairbanks this summer and down to seward/homer/peninsula and back. so, i think it has to be the NUMMI plant.... no probs w/ the Sierra truck either and it's a 1999.

MadBill · Post by **MadBill** » Wed Mar 03, 2004 8:00 pm

I'm wondering if maybe it's not the plant's fault at all, but rather that Nummi is the only auto assembly facility left in California, the home of ultra-restrictive regulations on everything that goes into the air. I.e., they are forced to use some worthless ^%$#$ to comply with air quality regulations!

ragingfish · Post by **ragingfish** » Wed Mar 03, 2004 11:14 pm

Very good point bill!

Flip-Side · Post by **Flip-Side** » Wed Mar 10, 2004 10:28 pm

Never thought of that Bill. It's quite possible. I talked to a new guy at work I've been hanging with on this problem. Hes been into the custom painting scene since he was 9, helping at his families paint/collision shop. I asked him about the paint, and he says Most companies use enamel paint that includes the clearcoat in the paint itself. It lets the automakers cover the vehicle cheaper, but with much thinner weaker paint.Also, he said there are no "Flex Agents" in our paint. Only high end car companies, and Saturn (yeah) have paint that can flex without flaking off anymore.Not to mention that GM uses the cheapest and crappiest enamel paint out off all the companies. He quoted me a repaint for my entire vibe, with new base coat, and clear coat. Only $1000. OK GM, send me my 1000 bucks, and I wont take a dump on your lawn. Deal? Deal.

MadBill · Post by **MadBill** » Wed Mar 10, 2004 10:37 pm

Hmm, Flip...Think maybe I should mosey on down to SC for a vacation and paint job! My shop quoted $4,500 for a doors and trim off colour change from Frosty to retina-frying yellow!

Flip-Side · Post by **Flip-Side** » Fri Mar 12, 2004 10:19 pm

Retina-Frying Yellow?! That sounds dangerous. "Here comes MadBill...ARG MY EYES!" Its more expensive to switch to a different color isn't it? Even though, I agree that bright yellow would look good on the vibe.I was surprised too. He quoted me $3500 for the prismatic color paint too. Wish I was still single, cause then I could afford it. Seen some of the work he's done, and the man does some sweet work. Custom shops down here have quoted me 2500-4000 just for same color re-paint. But hey, I have a new car. Why the heck should I need paint already. I'll post pics of my destroyed front end when I can get them hosted.

camthecanuck · Post by **camthecanuck** » Sat Apr 03, 2004 10:41 am

I am very late clambering on board but I am most disappointed in all the chips on my 2003 Smoke Vibe. Such a great car but the paint is crappy. Any sign of GM owning up to this and doing something about it?

Jahntassa · Post by **Jahntassa** » Sun Apr 04, 2004 2:36 am

Quote, originally posted by camthecanuck Â»I am very late clambering on board but I am most disappointed in all the chips on my 2003 Smoke Vibe. Such a great car but the paint is crappy. Any sign of GM owning up to this and doing something about it?Not yet it seems, my Lava paintjob is getting constantly ravaged, even with the OEM bra! Sadly, my course of action right now is to not care, keep putting on touch-up so it doesn't start rusting, and get the whole thing repainted as soon as I can afford it..

MrRich · Post by **MrRich** » Wed Apr 14, 2004 9:33 am

What do you guys think?Is it under warranty?I think so.they are under the rubber sealing of the hatch.

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MrRich · Post by **MrRich** » Wed Apr 14, 2004 9:34 am

#2

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joatmon · Post by **joatmon** » Sun Apr 18, 2004 12:44 am

Where on the hatch is that? I was looking at mine, and it seems like the rubber is glued on, so I didn't want to start peeling it off to look for rust..

itshers,butifixit · Post by **itshers,butifixit** » Mon Apr 26, 2004 4:29 am

When I bought mine, GM actually mailed me a bottle of touch up paint. The sad part is that it doesn't match the car.

Geo · Post by **Geo** » Thu Apr 29, 2004 2:06 pm

I just want to mention that other Manufacturers are having the paint problems that Pontiac/Toyota are.It seems as if Ford, Mazda, and I think other companies as well.Something about "environmentally friendly" paint ... having to be water based or something.Majorly sucks ...

jawon · Post by **jawon** » Fri Apr 30, 2004 3:15 am

I'm assuming the 2004 models are included in this paint issue. Or does anyone know if improvements were made for the 2004? I've also heard the 2005 will start being manufactured in the next month or so... anyone know if they've addressed the paint problem?

DjDoubleLP · Post by **DjDoubleLP** » Sat May 01, 2004 3:37 am

I have lots of problems with the clear coat. Lots of chips on the front bumper and hood. Also......paint is peeling off of the door handles......which are being replaced under warranty.

scherry2 · Post by **scherry2** » Thu May 06, 2004 8:17 am

Well took the vibe in today to have the dealer look at the roof it seems the paint on my roof is starting to crack, I told them that the paint was dry and he agreed. then I said "what about the rest of the car is the paint going to crack also? he said "well we'll wait and see." then i asked him "since you are covering the roof under warranty why don't you just take care of the hood chips too" that didn't go over so good.... he said "we can fix the chips and repaint the hood for $548.00" after I quit sputtering I said i'd wait till the TSB.

scherry2 · Post by **scherry2** » Thu May 06, 2004 12:08 pm

I'll take some tomorrow. I also talked to pontiac customer service, got a file # they are going to call me back friday after they talk to the dealer. (fingers crossed)

scherry2 · Post by **scherry2** » Fri May 07, 2004 5:59 am

well here is one pic of my dry paint. it looks like bird crap but in the paint.

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scherry2 · Post by **scherry2** » Fri May 07, 2004 10:11 am

I wish it did then i might not have all these hood chips.

scherry2 · Post by **scherry2** » Fri May 14, 2004 12:01 pm

well got my vibe back. the did a great job on the roof. I'm still working with pontiac customer support concerning my hood chips they also installed the correct drivers doorring weatherstrip

ArcsVibe · Post by **ArcsVibe** » Sat May 29, 2004 11:18 am

Quote, originally posted by silverawd26 Â»Well almost a year later and Jeff has never contacted me. Does he still visit our site?Try contacting him again bro!

scherry2 · Post by **scherry2** » Sat May 29, 2004 10:07 pm

Quote, originally posted by scherry2 Â» I'm still working with pontiac customer support concerning my hood chips pontiac customer support agrees that my hood should be painted (over the phone), but is having trouble talking to the dealer (kelly pontiac) seems they keep blowing him off and saying they are to busy to talk to him. he now said he is sending a registered letter to the dealer's head honcho and will call me later this week.this is the same Kelly that has cars in the Indy 500. I don't understand why the dealer is having such a problem with warranty work they get paid by Pontiac motor division for the warranty work anyway.

ArcsVibe · Post by **ArcsVibe** » Sat May 29, 2004 10:10 pm

I guess they must know that there are alot of Vibe/Matrix owners who will come in with their bad paint jobs!I actually noticed yesterday after washing and waxing my Vibe that I have a small chip that is showing rust ((removed)!) I am calling my brother in Detroit next week and asking him what can be done.The drama continues .....

POLO · Post by **POLO** » Sat May 29, 2004 11:29 pm

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!When i wash and wax i noticed that me to i have spot like sherry and in 3 different place on the hood.It make me on fury.I tough that the 04 model have less probleme,but no.I'm very sad to see that i'm in the club to in this kind of probleme.

futseal04 · Post by **futseal04** » Mon May 31, 2004 10:06 pm

I too have noticed the thinness of the paint, and I guess that I will take it into a body shop and have then shoot a couple of coats of clearcoat before it gets too bad.......The LeBra really saved the front end during my 3 road trips.....

ssheth21 · Post by **ssheth21** » Mon Jun 07, 2004 10:27 am

Hi people, thanks for all the insight on these discussion threads, particularly this one. I have started having A LOT of issues with the paint on my vehicle. There are scratches and chipping everywhere, but whats really interesting is that today I was washing my vehicle and literally watched the top layer of paint flake away on the front bumper (???). There is also a lot of scratching under the door handles. Lastly, has anyone had problems with the plastic used on the interior, I've noticed that it also scratches and wears very easily. It seems cost was sought over quality in this vehicle...

scherry2 · Post by **scherry2** » Wed Jun 09, 2004 10:03 am

took my vibe into another dealer today per pontiac customer support. dealer checked the depth of the paint and it came out 5.8 in various spots on the hood near chips (which are every where now) 5.2 on the sides of the car. from what he said 4.5 is in spec. he said that if he was asked he would have to tell customer support it is not a GM warranty problem. BUT, he did tell me to call customer support and ask to have district manager look at it, to him it seemed funny that it was chipping and he told me vibes do have clear coat. man I love my car but this is tickin me off. if i do see the district manager I will show him a print out of this thread.

Sub-Vibe-R · Post by **Sub-Vibe-R** » Fri Jun 11, 2004 1:36 pm

I just cleaned up my Vibe last day and my hood (even with the hood deflector) and front bumber are a total disaster (sp?)....Touch up paint is not enough. To make it good I'd have to repaint everything

Flip-Side · Post by **Flip-Side** » Fri Jun 25, 2004 6:18 am

Does your front end look like mine bro? No folks, these are not bugs on the car. It is completely clean, and de-tarred, de-bugged, freshly waxed. Never seen this on a car before.

scherry2 · Post by **scherry2** » Fri Jun 25, 2004 9:26 am

thats what my hood looks like

VibeChick · Post by **VibeChick** » Tue Jul 06, 2004 3:06 am

Ok, my new car is 2 months old...and I already have several paint chips on the hood, and a couple rough spots on the front bumper. ARGH!!!!!At this rate, it's gonna look terrible in no time

Mavrik · Post by **Mavrik** » Wed Jul 07, 2004 4:42 am

Quote, originally posted by VibeChick Â»Ok, my new car is 2 months old...and I already have several paint chips on the hood, and a couple rough spots on the front bumper. ARGH!!!!!At this rate, it's gonna look terrible in no time Do what I did to mine carrie, though my fenders have chips...

ColonelPanic · Post by **ColonelPanic** » Thu Jul 08, 2004 9:35 am

I seem to have developed some paint problems pretty late in the game. It looked pretty good there for a while.The hood held up great, I only have maybe 5 chips at the most. I touched them all up when I installed my deflector back in the spring. Haven't noticed any further damage to the hood since the addition of the deflector.Now, the front bumper, OTOH... It's getting pretty rough. Now in the pic, keep in mind that while the car was clean, it wasn't thoroughly debugged. Undoubtedly, some of the spots shown are probably bugs or various other gunk, but you can definitely feel chunks of paint missing in many places. I'll give it a good cleaning tomorrow before I go back to the dealer to weed out the flaws from the bug snot.I'll talk to them about it tomorrow when I'm there. Like it'll do any good, but you know. Maybe I'll just pay to get the bumper repainted if GM won't (and have them yank the mirrors and paint them as well, while they're at it!)

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ColonelPanic · Post by **ColonelPanic** » Fri Jul 09, 2004 3:38 am

Well, talked to the dealer... Yeah, they'll fix it. IF I take it to their body shop and pay them money. Drove up there for an estimate, it's gonna take $398 to repaint the bumper.

VibeChick · Post by **VibeChick** » Fri Jul 09, 2004 3:41 am

Quote, originally posted by ColonelPanic Â»Well, talked to the dealer... Yeah, they'll fix it. IF I take it to their body shop and pay them money. Drove up there for an estimate, it's gonna take $398 to repaint the bumper.Ouch. Are you going to do it? I wonder how much to paint the hood. Could get expensive doing that every year or two

MadBill · Post by **MadBill** » Fri Jul 09, 2004 4:05 am

Actually, the durability of a good repaint will be interesting to monitor. It may well be a permanent cure for the "California Chicken Pox", if all or much of the chipping problem is due to crappy paint required to meet unique environmental rules in La La Land.

ColonelPanic · Post by **ColonelPanic** » Fri Jul 09, 2004 4:58 am

The worst part is labor as to be expected. They quoted $212.80 for removal/prep/installation ($38/hr rate.) $91.20 labor for painting ($38/hr there as well.) $84.30 for paint and materials. Then a few bucks for taxes and whatever other fees.I'm wondering how much they'd knock off if I just took the bumper off myself, threw it in the back of dad's truck, and brought it to them. No telling how much of that $212 includes removal and reinstallation of the bumper. I did a similar thing when I had these guys repaint the mirror on the Malibu I had, I went ahead and removed it myself and brought it there, they only charged $30 to repaint it. Those guys do great work there, although $400 was a bit more than I was expecting to pay. Granted, I could take it elsewhere and probably save a couple bucks, but I'm not sure if that's the best solution. I want a good paint job and want it to last. Sure would be swell if GM would pay to get our bumpers repainted, since their paint sucks and they're well aware of it. But I'm not holding my breath on that one, so I'll just take a hit in the wallet and get it over with.So, I'll be the guinea pig for the great repaint the Vibe expirement. I agree with MadBill, I think if you just get a decent coat of paint on the bumper, that *could* go a long way. Rock chips are going to happen. However, I don't think we should be seeing damage as severe as we have. Never really had this big of a problem with the other cars I have owned.BTW, here's another pic of the damage, after I hit the bumper with a bunch of bug & tar remover.

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ColonelPanic · Post by **ColonelPanic** » Fri Jul 09, 2004 5:00 am

And another...

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VibeChick · Post by **VibeChick** » Fri Jul 09, 2004 5:10 am

Yeah, that is a lot of damage..and mine will look the same I'm sure. It really shows up on the dark colors.It probably is worth it to take the bumper to them, they usually charge quite a bit to take those off

ColonelPanic · Post by **ColonelPanic** » Fri Jul 09, 2004 5:12 am

And, an EXTREME CLOSEUP. Isn't that purdy?

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scherry2 · Post by **scherry2** » Fri Jul 09, 2004 5:17 am

Quote, originally posted by VibeChick Â» I wonder how much to paint the hood. Could get expensive doing that every year or two I was quoted $575.00 (American) to paint my hood and the fight with Pontiac continues....

VibeChick · Post by **VibeChick** » Fri Jul 09, 2004 5:19 am

Quote, originally posted by scherry2 Â»I was quoted $575.00 (American) to paint my hood and the fight with Pontiac continues.... so Canadian it would be close to $1000 I'll be waiting till it looks like my car has a bad case of dandruff before I'd cough that up then!

ColonelPanic · Post by **ColonelPanic** » Fri Jul 09, 2004 5:20 am

Quote, originally posted by VibeChick Â»Yeah, that is a lot of damage..and mine will look the same I'm sure. It really shows up on the dark colors.Yes it does! I want my next car to be 'Primer grey!' That'll fix this whole rock chip issue! Quote Â»It probably is worth it to take the bumper to them, they usually charge quite a bit to take those off That's what I'm thinking. The guy at the shop kinda hinted that a good chunk of that labor was for removing the bumper. Can't see why that would be the case, shouldn't be that difficult. I had to take the bumper off the last car at one point in time.

VibeChick · Post by **VibeChick** » Fri Jul 09, 2004 5:25 am

Quote, originally posted by ColonelPanic Â»That's what I'm thinking. The guy at the shop kinda hinted that a good chunk of that labor was for removing the bumper. Can't see why that would be the case, shouldn't be that difficult. I had to take the bumper off the last car at one point in time. It's quite easy to do, but most people wouldn't know that - so they charge alot At least, that's my theory...lol