non-legible ticket

Merzbow · Post by **Merzbow** » Fri Apr 02, 2004 12:57 pm

Ok, I got pulled over AGAIN while cruising Gratiot...she gives me a ticket for being out past curfew...appearently the curfew in Roseville is 10pm for 16 yr olds...how ever here in my city the curfew is 12am...Not only is this bullsh*t because i don't study other citie's laws but I couldn't read a single thing she wroote on the ticket...so I don't know when the court date is, how much the ticket's for, where the court is, the officer's name, or the officer;s number...I'm so pissed...what should I do? Is there something I can get out of an illegible ticket? Like some sort of break or somethign?

Altus · Post by **Altus** » Fri Apr 02, 2004 1:28 pm

Michigan still has curfew's for teens?? Damn... welcome to the dark ages....Don't know much about Michigan / US law, but I'd say show it to a lawyer if your family knows one -- or take it down to your local courthouse and have them translate it for you or get it voided.Good luck

Mavrik · Post by **Mavrik** » Fri Apr 02, 2004 10:22 pm

That sucks, If you don't live in the area, how are you suppose to be home after curfew at 10pm?I'd take it down to your local courthouse and see what they say. You can't pay for what you can't read. And the ticket is bull anyway.

Fialchar · Post by **Fialchar** » Sat Apr 03, 2004 3:03 am

A friend of mine and I both got speeding tickets at the same time one night, and on his the officer didn't press down hard enough to make the carbon copy, but he still had to go to the traffic court and pay it. They should be able to tell you what to do there. Check out driving schools in your area, here in Florida if you complete a 4 hour online course, 4 hour live course, or a 4 hour improv comedy course, they don't add any points to your driving record (Cheaper insurance) and they also reduce the fine.

russ257 · Post by **russ257** » Sat Apr 03, 2004 3:35 am

i know my 4 hour improv comedy course made me a better driver

AKLGT · Post by **AKLGT** » Sat Apr 03, 2004 3:47 am

that really sucks! do they have anything posted to let you know there was a 10 pm curfew??? what time did you get the ticket? right after 10 or almost at midnight? i'd try and contest it for sure, especially if your town is 12 am. we have a curfew here too, but it's 12 am. hardly enforced unless you're caught drinking or causing probs. good luck, paul!

Stang2Vibe · Post by **Stang2Vibe** » Sat Apr 03, 2004 12:24 pm

This is one of the biggest reasons why I hate busybody local cops. Instead of catching someone who is selling drugs to 10 year olds, they pull crap like this. However, no matter where you are, you bear the responsibility to inform yourself of and conform to the laws. Like the old saying "ingnorace of the law is no excuse". I personally don't agree with this notion in every case, and this would be one of them. If you lived in PA, I could give you some advice considering some of the circumstances that you stated. I don't know MI law, particularly the vehicle code, so I can't be of much help. I would tell you to try and look up your vehicle code online if you can find it. I've done this with my state's laws and found some very interesting things in there that the police probably wouldn't want me to know. The best advice I can give you is to consult a lawyer with experience in traffic court. I will never just pay a ticket again, I'd rather give the money to the lawyer because it will be cheaper in the long run.I know that in PA, there are minimum reqirements as to what is on the ticket. If they write the wrong date on the ticket (I've seen this done) then you are free to go if you can demonstrate that you were not in that place at that time. I think they also must state the law that you are charged with breaking on the ticket and it must be signed by the issuing officer and they must write their badge number on it as well. I seem to remember the law stating something about the legibility of the writing on the ticket, but I can't get into specifics without looking at the law again. You'd be best off to try and look up the laws yourself, and again, to talk to a lawyer. It may not be as expensive as you think. Also, your local courthouse has no responsibility to represent you or to help you fight a traffic ticket. In fact, I have found that they will do the opposite. Local police won't help you out, either. Believe me, been there, done ALL that, and if I had to do it again, I'd DEFINATELY get a lawyer.

Merzbow · Post by **Merzbow** » Sun Apr 04, 2004 3:29 am

Thanks everyone I wasn't expecting anyone to be on my side with this one lol. I got pulled over at 11pm. I was planning on heading back home around 11:15 just to make sure I was home before 12. Thanks for the input...I'lll stop by my cities court house since it's like 2 minutes away and I'll get it translated. I'll talk to my mom about asking a lawyer...I haven't old her yet because she'll probably take it for more than it is...although she can't really get mad at me because she knew I was out cruising and she didn't say anything about a 10:00 curfew there.

Altus · Post by **Altus** » Sun Apr 04, 2004 1:36 pm

Make sure you let us know how it turns out!

Pablo1669 · Post by **Pablo1669** » Sun Apr 04, 2004 11:40 pm

not to make you mad but my question is what were you doing to get pulled over? if it was 11pm, it was probably too dark for the officer to see you and say, hmm... lets get this kid cause he's out past his curfew.That is kinda weird that you can't read the ticket at all, hopefully neither can the magistrate, and you'll get off the ticket.

Stang2Vibe · Post by **Stang2Vibe** » Mon Apr 05, 2004 3:03 pm

Yeah Merz, were you driving around with your neons on?

Merzbow · Post by **Merzbow** » Tue Apr 06, 2004 6:48 am

Yeah I was cruising with my neons on, sorry I thought I mentioned that. I was actually in the island turn around with them on, I wasn't actually driving with them on. I turned them off right after I took off and I gues she saw me before I could turn them off. Actually when I passed her she was driving really slow in the far right lane looking for me and didnt recognize me right away so if the stupid light didn't turn red, I may have been able to escape. Of course when the light changed her spot light emediately blarred into my mirrors and blinded me...I couldn't see sh*t. I should have just crashed into something and blamed her but I love my baby too much I didn't argue with her at all because I understand that she let me go with the neosn....and to answer everyone's question, she told me that she usually doesn't pick on people with neons unless they have red or blue just becuase those are the came color as emergency vehicles...so basically if I would have had green or purple I probably wouldnt have gotten pulled over. I don't think any other colors woult match the Vibe though

joatmon · Post by **joatmon** » Tue Apr 06, 2004 6:51 am

I gotta ask, if you keep getting in trouble for those underbody lights, why do continue to use them?

Merzbow · Post by **Merzbow** » Tue Apr 06, 2004 6:53 am

LOL, that's a good question. I love how they look and I get ALOT of attention and compliments with them on. To me it's worth it...I normally don't drive with them on, on multi-lane roads but since this was a special ocasion I couldn't resist.

AKLGT · Post by **AKLGT** » Tue Apr 06, 2004 7:14 am

man, paul, i'm glad i'm not paying your insurance! how many times is that now? maybe it's time you rethink those neons or atleast the color... don't you get points deducted off your license too??? and having them on is just like asking for a ticket.

Merzbow · Post by **Merzbow** » Tue Apr 06, 2004 7:32 am

lol. Insurance doesn't know about any of them, and neons don't add points onto your liscense. I pay for half of insurance too so I pay for my own actions I'm willing to accept the consequences of having a good time.HEY atleast I dont drink or do drugs and get DUI's!!!!!!!

Stang2Vibe · Post by **Stang2Vibe** » Tue Apr 06, 2004 11:14 am

Quote, originally posted by Merzbow Â»she told me that she usually doesn't pick on people with neons unless they have red or blue just becuase those are the came color as emergency vehicles...See this is always a B.S. line. What person is so stupid as to mistake a SOLID color eminating from UNDERNIETH a vehicle for an emergency vehicle? Has anyone ever seen an ambulance, police car, or fire truck with neons under it and use them to signal a response to an emergency call? I highly doubt it. In PA, I think anyone can put a blue strobe light on the roof or on the dashboard of your car. Volunteer emercency personnel often use them when responding to an emergency call, but motor traffic is not required by law to yield to them. We only have to yield to vehicles displaying "flashing red lights", though I always yield to the blue lights also out of respect for what they are doing. As far as I know, there is no special reqirement that must be met nor any special permit held to display or use a flashing blue light on the car. And so what if someone mistook your car with neons under it for an emergency vehicle anyway? What is the worst that would happen? Someone in front of you would pull over for 5 seconds while you pass? God forbid that someone should do that, the whole world as we know it might end! This has always been a lame and unfounded excuse for an enforcable regulation and I think I just busted it there.

Pablo1669 · Post by **Pablo1669** » Tue Apr 06, 2004 9:09 pm

Quote, originally posted by Stang2Vibe Â»See this is always a B.S. line. What person is so stupid as to mistake a SOLID color eminating from UNDERNIETH a vehicle for an emergency vehicle? Has anyone ever seen an ambulance, police car, or fire truck with neons under it and use them to signal a response to an emergency call? I don't think it's B.S. What if you notice this car coming at you from a distance and you see the neons. Well, during the night, it would probably be pretty tough to tell from a distance (as the car is approaching) whether it's underbody neons or lights on top of the car. AT first glance, I'll admit, I might be a little confused at first. But there are some pretty stupid people out there, and not EVERYONE out there knows that underbody neons even exsist. I'm sure my mom would have no clue if I asked her and she's a pretty smart lady.

Stang2Vibe · Post by **Stang2Vibe** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 3:30 am

This should answer that:Quote, originally posted by Stang2Vibe Â»And so what if someone mistook your car with neons under it for an emergency vehicle anyway? What is the worst that would happen? Someone in front of you would pull over for 5 seconds while you pass? God forbid that someone should do that, the whole world as we know it might end!

Merzbow · Post by **Merzbow** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 4:18 am

Yeah I was just gonna say that stang...You wanna know know something even stupider??? Their excuse for purple neons to be illegal is because hurses now have purple strobes....ON TOP....of the car...for one thing, WHAT THE HELL WOULD A HURSE BE DOING OUT AT NIGHT WITH IT'S LIGHTS ON!!!! Another thing, who cares if a hurse is coming towards you...you don't have to pull over or anything to get out of it's way!!!I didn't wanna sound like an A-hole and pester the cop about how a neon light could possibly be mistaken for an emergency vehicle because she would pobably consider me a smart @$$.I mean, I honestly admit there is a difference between a neon undercar kit that remains lit until turned off and visible strobe light or red headlights or whatever....but seriously, some of these laws are rediculousWhen I become dictator of this country a few things will have to change

ebslopp · Post by **ebslopp** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 5:22 am

Quote, originally posted by Merzbow Â»Not only is this bullsh*t because i don't study other citie's laws but I couldn't read a single thing she wroote on the ticket...so I don't know when the court date is, how much the ticket's for, where the court is, the officer's name, or the officer;s number...I'm so pissed...what should I do? Is there something I can get out of an illegible ticket? Like some sort of break or somethign? Why don't you pay the ticket with an illegible check?...lol

Fialchar · Post by **Fialchar** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 6:17 am

"Another thing, who cares if a hurse is coming towards you...you don't have to pull over or anything to get out of it's way!!!"I pull over for every hurse/funeral procesion that comes up beside me or is getting ready to pass me. It's kind of disrespectful not to.

Merzbow · Post by **Merzbow** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 6:20 am

oh...well see, I've never encountered a hurse going in the same direction as me...sorry...never the less, the worst it would do is cause you to pull over...but that also brings my last coment into thought...what would a hurse be doing out that late at night?(removed) Ebslopp...that's a good idea.

joatmon · Post by **joatmon** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 9:51 am

there are a lot of laws that don't necessarily seem legit, but unless you want to do some serious lobbying of your elected representatives, the laws are likely to stay on the books, and if you violate them, then you agree to be punished. You decided that it's worth the effect, that's your decision. I prefer to be less of a target for police. You need to be careful around hearses. If you get between the hearse and the funeral procession behind it, you risk stealing the ghost of the dead person. They don't like it when that happens.

Fialchar · Post by **Fialchar** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 1:09 pm

Wow, I got lucky, I was trying not to draw attention to my car while driving down one of the main streets in Pensacola tonight. I forgot and left my bright red neons on the entire time.. Oo

AKLGT · Post by **AKLGT** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 1:14 pm

ya, w/ my huge (removed) sticker on the windshield, and rice stickers.... cops notice me, but then they see me in my suit... and leave me alone. guess i don't look as threatening. lol

Mavrik · Post by **Mavrik** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 8:36 pm

Quote, originally posted by trdvibe Â»ya, w/ my huge (removed) sticker on the windshield, and rice stickers.... cops notice me, but then they see me in my suit... and leave me alone. guess i don't look as threatening. lolThey probbaly don't think its your car...

slbpsi63 · Post by **slbpsi63** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 10:46 pm

Quote, originally posted by ebslopp Â» Why don't you pay the ticket with an illegible check?Cause that is a felony... I don't think he is want to make matters wrose.

AKLGT · Post by **AKLGT** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 11:05 pm

Quote, originally posted by ebslopp Â» Why don't you pay the ticket with an illegible check?as funny as that would be, that would be a very very stupid thing to do.

Merzbow · Post by **Merzbow** » Thu Apr 08, 2004 9:30 am

(removed), stop poling fun I like my neons and take full responsibility for my actions...I think it would be worth the laugh to pay with an il-legible ticket...just to see their faces and mock them. Oh yeah, I calle dand turns out that the original ticket for being out past curfew is $135!!! Can you believe that b/s? I have no idea when the d*mn curfew is in otehr cities I honestly thought curfew was state-wide...I didn't know indevidual cities were (removed) enough to make up their own curfew laws!

MadBill · Post by **MadBill** » Thu Apr 08, 2004 12:25 pm

Might be worth a substantial discount to show up in court contrite, well-dressed, bearing a copy of the curfew law in your county and pleading guilty with an explanation.

GonzagaVIBE_03 · Post by **GonzagaVIBE_03** » Thu Apr 08, 2004 12:42 pm

Why don't you lay off the attitude, and live up to what you keep saying: Quote, originally posted by Merzbow Â» I like my neons and take full responsibility for my actions...If you ask me, you got caught for a legit reason and you deserve what you got. just go to court and pay it and take a class. It's not the end of the world.

AKLGT · Post by **AKLGT** » Thu Apr 08, 2004 12:51 pm

Quote, originally posted by GonzagaVIBE_03 Â»If you ask me, you got caught for a legit reason and you deserve what you got. just go to court and pay it and take a class. It's not the end of the world.he is not refering to the neons. he got a ticket for curfew when his town is different. that's what he's disputing. paul knows and accepts responsibility for his neons. but getting a ticket for curfew in an adjacent town when in his town he was not in violation.

Geo · Post by **Geo** » Thu Apr 08, 2004 1:40 pm

I wish you the best of luck, hopefully you will get an understanding judge and this whole thing will get dropped.I'll refrain from making a case against curfew laws, as I deem them stupid beyond belief (heh heh heh... I mean, when did the law take over for every thing a parent has to take care of?! *grumble grumble grumble*) Hopefully you get the best of 'em

Merzbow · Post by **Merzbow** » Thu Apr 08, 2004 1:57 pm

Thanks for your support.The date is May 12th I think and I'll put some use to my sharp lookin suit. Lets hope word of my underbody kit doesn't leak out other wise I'll be forced to take it off. That would be pretty devistating to me since I obviously care alot about it!I'll llet you all know how it goes so Tune back into the station sometime in May if you want to know the outcome of this dramatic turn of events!

Geo · Post by **Geo** » Thu Apr 08, 2004 5:26 pm

I got my VCR set and ready to go

Stang2Vibe · Post by **Stang2Vibe** » Thu Apr 08, 2004 7:14 pm

Quote, originally posted by ebslopp Â»Why don't you pay the ticket with an illegible check?...lolThis reminds me of the time that a guy got a speeding ticket from one of those photo radar devices. He got a ticket sent to him in the mail with a photo of his car allegedly speeding. He faxed a photo of the fine money to the police station that sent the ticket. The police station faxed him back with a photo of handcuffs. LOL. I thought that was pretty funny. I think I saw that on the History channel as a lead in to the commercial break.

noginsk · Post by **noginsk** » Thu Apr 08, 2004 8:24 pm

Quote, originally posted by Stang2Vibe Â»This reminds me of the time that a guy got a speeding ticket from one of those photo radar devices. He got a ticket sent to him in the mail with a photo of his car allegedly speeding. He faxed a photo of the fine money to the police station that sent the ticket. The police station faxed him back with a photo of handcuffs. LOL. I thought that was pretty funny. I think I saw that on the History channel as a lead in to the commercial break.That is FUNNY! My brother's a cop, gonna have to tell him this one.

Jahntassa · Post by **Jahntassa** » Thu Apr 08, 2004 9:20 pm

I know it applies to states...I wonder if it does to counties... Isn't there a law that says the police have to respect the laws of other states if you're visiting? IE I live in NJ, but i'm "visiting" GA (I haven't transferred my registration/liscence yet..so i'm still officially a NJ resident). If the law in NJ says one thing, GA will honor that as long as i'm a NJ resident.If that applies to Counties, you should use that. I'm sure one of the officers that peruses the forums knows what i'm talking about, and can tell you what it is i'm talking about...

slbpsi63 · Post by **slbpsi63** » Thu Apr 08, 2004 10:20 pm

Not always the case. I've heard of people getting their radar detectors taken form them in Virginia even if they live out of state and are jsut passing through. A freind of mine was forced to back up over the radar detector to destroy it. That is some bull ish. It is a courtesy that some individual officers give out of towners (they usually give them a warning), but the law is the law and they have a right to inforce their local laws on guests even if they don't know what the law is. In our friends curfew case the officer doesn't really know the whole situation. He could have been staying with a relative, just moved to the town and not updated his address, or any other circumstance. Fact of the matter is he technically broke the curfew law. If he disputes it with good facts ie I really do live in another town and stuff the judge might drop the charge and give him a warning. Good luck!!! I hope all goes well for you.

MadBill · Post by **MadBill** » Thu Apr 08, 2004 10:28 pm

Good point, slbpsi! I remeber the first time I was in Arizona, this guy on a chopper rode by. No helmet and a (bleep)ing great revolver on his hip! Turns out there is (or at least was) no helmet law in AZ, and you can carry a firearm as long as it's not concealed.Try that in most other states!

Jahntassa · Post by **Jahntassa** » Thu Apr 08, 2004 11:55 pm

I suppose that makes sense. And if you drive through Virginia with a radar detector, that's a different story. There're signs that say they're illeagle as soon as you get into the state...Unless there was a posted curfew...

AKLGT · Post by **AKLGT** » Fri Apr 09, 2004 1:11 am

Quote, originally posted by MadBill Â»Turns out there is (or at least was) no helmet law in AZ, and you can carry a firearm as long as it's not concealed.Try that in most other states!he he he.... this is alaska.... just about everyone has a gun or rifle mounted in the back of their trucks! and as long as you get a concealed weapon license, you can carry a gun except in bdgs or places not allowed by law like banks, schools, federal bdgs, etc.

Fialchar · Post by **Fialchar** » Fri Apr 09, 2004 2:45 am

*Sniffle* Stop talking about concealed weapons, they took my telescoping asp away from me T.TApparently they're legal to buy/sell, but illegal to own/possess.. -_-

Stang2Vibe · Post by **Stang2Vibe** » Fri Apr 09, 2004 6:24 am

Quote, originally posted by trdvibe Â»as long as you get a concealed weapon license, you can carry a gun except in bdgs or places not allowed by law like banks, schools, federal bdgs, etc.We have the same thing here in PA. We have two types of firearms carrying permits, open carry permits and concealed carry permits. If you have an open carry permit and are openly carrying a firearm, it must be highly visible on your person from all angles around you. This has a potential for some problems unless you're carrying 2 and have one strapped to each hip, old western style. For a proper concealed carry, the firearm must not be visible on your person. There are several types of gun holsters available that will safely hold the gun on your body and help you to fulfill this requirement.And no, there is no general provision that forces one county/municipality/state to defer legal authority to another. However, there are some provisions that force all states to recognize certain things mutually. Things like marriage, driver's liscenses, gov't issued photo ID's, passports, national citizenship, etc. These things are established by federal law and supercede all state and local laws. I have a similar problem with window tint here in PA. The state laws on it are vague and don't establish any kind of legal standard, so local municipalities realized that they can capitalize on this and make a quick buck off of people who want/need to tint their windows on their cars. I currently live in a very small municipality and each municipality around me has its own tint standards. I can drive around my house and go into 4 other municipalities within about 3 minutes. I could have a level of tint that is legal in my municipality and 2 of the others, but possibly not in the other 2. So as I drive around, I could theoretically be ticketed as I drive from street to street and keep racking up tickets for the same violation all day until I finally park the car. It's a very very stupid way of handling something so trivial as window tint.

Kari · Post by **Kari** » Fri Apr 09, 2004 12:57 pm

If you go to court and the cop doesn't show up, you also get out of the ticket, too.

Merzbow · Post by **Merzbow** » Fri Apr 09, 2004 1:03 pm

Yeah, that's true, but I would rather her not mention my underbody kit...I would rather pay the $135 than have to take it off.

Kari · Post by **Kari** » Sat Apr 10, 2004 2:01 am

If the citation is not for the underbody kit, then it's irrelevant in court.

Stang2Vibe · Post by **Stang2Vibe** » Sat Apr 10, 2004 5:12 am

Quote, originally posted by Kari Â»If you go to court and the cop doesn't show up, you also get out of the ticket, too.This is not true. At least not around here anymore. Not for a hearing anyway. The state can appoint any officer of the law to appear for the arresting officer in probate. If it actually goes to a county court or higher (any court of record), then I believe that the state must provide an actual witness to the infraction to testify against you for the case to hold.

Stang2Vibe · Post by **Stang2Vibe** » Sat Apr 10, 2004 5:14 am

Quote, originally posted by Kari Â»If the citation is not for the underbody kit, then it's irrelevant in court.This part IS true. They cannot cite you for other infractions after the fact. They can bargain down the charges with you, but they cannot start randomly tacking on charges after you have been released from the scene of the infraction.