Supercharger installation success and problems

teammonkeys · Post by **teammonkeys** » Thu Mar 25, 2004 9:33 am

OK... I have finished installing the S/C that I bought from ilquikgtx (and special thanks to John). The good news is that the car will start and can be driven.OK... now here is the bad news... 1. When the idles for a long period of time (5 minutes), the engine either comes close to dying or it dies. I took out the spark plugs and they are black... To me, the problem may seem to be fuel/air mixture ratio, perhaps tooo lean. The New AC/Delco spark plugs are on the engine... But I saw two listed spark plugs in the installation direction (NGK and Denso), could the spark plugs be the problem??? I don't know. I have bougth the Denso plugs and will install it.2. OK.. now for the second problem. When the engine is at high RPM (5000 and beyond), there is a sudden halt and drop in rpm. Is this problem related to the first one? Can it be wrong fuel/air mixture? Fuel is not being delived?... I don't know...The car has 91 octane fuel, Injen CAI.I'm seeking help from the forum before I take the car to a performance tunner shop.. Or which ever shop you guys can recommend, i.e. dealer?Thanks,Phong

joatmon · Post by **joatmon** » Thu Mar 25, 2004 9:50 am

are you sure the ECU piggy back thng is hooked up right? sounds like either a sensor is misbehaving or the computer doesn't know how to deal with the SC properly. Only guessing though.I thought the SC wasn't designed to work with a CAI.

wicked1981 · Post by **wicked1981** » Thu Mar 25, 2004 9:53 am

Not sure about what it could be but in the GM website it says not to use a CAI with the supercharger I dont know if that could be the problem or not. Maybe thats why it might be lean air/fuel? Dont know more than that hopefully you can get this fixed so you can let us know how it works on your car.

teammonkeys · Post by **teammonkeys** » Thu Mar 25, 2004 10:09 am

I'm pretty sure I have the ECU and piggy installed correctly... I looked at the instruction over and over. But I will check again. Regarding the CAI, I though Greenfire had his CAI and it was OK... so I don't think that it is the CAI.

teammonkeys · Post by **teammonkeys** » Thu Mar 25, 2004 11:16 am

I just installed the new Denso Irid. sparks plugs that the instruction recommend.... At first it was OK... As I drove it, the engine wants to die when I'm idling.....So... it may be as the supercharger heats up, I get problems.... I don't know... just theory.I also noticed that there is black smoke coming out of the tail pipe and it smelt like CO2. So, I think the engine is running to LEAN.... Does anyone knows how to adjust the air/fuel ratio???? Or yet better what can i buy to monitor the air/fuel ratio and perhaps adjust the ratio?Anyhow... Tomorrow I will put on the Stock air box.

Larry · Post by **Larry** » Thu Mar 25, 2004 12:52 pm

It could be a lot of things. I wouldn't drive it that much until you get it checked out. The dealer or a good perfromance shop should both be able to fix it.

cohocarl · Post by **cohocarl** » Thu Mar 25, 2004 5:59 pm

If the plugs are black, and it slowly dies out at idle, that sounds like a too rich air/fuel condition to me. Either rich or lean though, I wouldn't run it too much till you get it straightened out. I would take the cai off and put the original (or if one came with the kit) intake on. Shouldn't be too difficult, and would eliminate that possibility. If the airflow sensor isn't reading right due to the cai, it could cause your problem.

satur9 · Post by **satur9** » Fri Mar 26, 2004 5:18 am

sounds like too rich to me a lean condition wouldnt cause black smoke either. somethings making you run rich are you sure the fifth injector is hooked up properly is your maf sensor clean.are you getting full boost. put a boost guage on it and check the psi.

teammonkeys · Post by **teammonkeys** » Fri Mar 26, 2004 9:10 am

ok... i put back the stock air box....And now the car won't start...Opened spark plugs and tested one. There is ignite.. There is also gasoline... I can smell gasoline after i start the car at the tail pipe..I also notice the tail pipe is extremely black inside.I'm lost.. I'm about to give up... I called a performance tune shop called ATP (Advance Tuning Products) Manufacting and they don't know much about our the Vibes or Matrix so they won't even accept to tune my car.Should I take the car to the Pontiac Dealer or Toyota Dealer to trouble shoot? OR if anyone else can help me it would be greatful.. And thanks to those who have inputed advises.I also bought a air/fuel ratio gauge and a boost gauge... I can figure out the air/fuel ratio wiring.. I believe it slices to the O2 sensor wiring.I'm not sure about how to plug in the Boost gauge on the supercharger.. Does anyone knows?

cohocarl · Post by **cohocarl** » Fri Mar 26, 2004 9:25 am

Could it be a vacuum leak? I have no idea how the f.i. system works on the Vibe, but I'm wondering if there may be a vac. leak, making the computer think it's under load, and it's injecting more fuel than it should. Just a guess.I have an air/fuel gauge in my Vette, and it's more or less just eye candy. From what I've read, they aren't very accurate, unless you use a wide-band, (expensive) oxygen sensor.

greenfire · Post by **greenfire** » Fri Mar 26, 2004 10:44 am

Definetly keep the stock air box on for now. The fifth injector is what regulates the additional fuel. You need to make sure that is wired up correctly. Sounds like maybe its sending the opposite signal to the injector. My car has 3 wires for the injector. Be certain they are connected to the correct pins on the ECU. Make sure where the wires go into the ecu that they are not touching. Maybe for some reason it is getting a signal to stay open all the time and pushing in too much fuel. If all else fails you will have to get an "additional injector controler" from Split Second to regulate that injector. But even then those wires have to be correct to regulate the boost. Hope this helps

greenfire · Post by **greenfire** » Fri Mar 26, 2004 11:00 am

Just another thought.. For all we know the fuel could be just fine. And its not getting the proper air flow, screwing up the mixture. Make sure all the hoses are on correctly. There is a crome lever to the right of the SC (underneath), make sure that moves freely. That regulates the boost. (Opens and closes bypass valve). Well I guess you can't check these things until you get it running.. So for a last ditch effort, disconnect the piggyback and try starting the car. If it starts and idles fine, then you know your problem is wiring/ecu. If it doesnt start/run then the problem is mechanical (SC/airflow/injector/fuel problem)

MadBill · Post by **MadBill** » Fri Mar 26, 2004 11:02 am

I concur, it sounds way rich. Further to above, you could also try cleaning the plugs again as they are likely fuel fouled, then disconnect the 5th injector entirely, to see if that clears things up? The extra fuel is only needed under higher loads, so it should be safe to check idle and light load operation without it.I'm afraid unless it's a simple base vehicle issue, most GM and Toyota dealers, unless thev'e done several SC installs, (if any have!) will be in the dark and learning by cut and try at your expense. How far are you from the outfit that tweaked that member's SC for more power, or Stafford, the guy that does the custom turbo installs? I think you really need a good Toyota tuner for this one... (EDIT) Oops! Posted before i saw Greenfire's last, but we said almost the same thing in different words..

MadBill · Post by **MadBill** » Fri Mar 26, 2004 11:27 am

Here's another thought: dmitri posted the following site re brass shifter bushings, but they also say they specialize in turbo and SC installs. You could call them, (or for that matter, Stafford, the outfit that did up Greenfire's SC, or ??) and see if they would provide verbal or written advice in exchange for 'X' dollars charged to your credit card. Would be cheap at the price if it worked. http://speed-source.net/

Larry · Post by **Larry** » Fri Mar 26, 2004 11:58 am

With the SC installed, it is suppose to run rich under boost. It seems to be between 9:1 and 10:1. When TRD tested the SC they were having a problem with the first cat buring out so they tuned it a little rich to keep the exhuast temps down. At least that's what a rep from TRD said. I'm sure it's something simple. Probably a loose hose or a wiring problem as the others have said.

teammonkeys · Post by **teammonkeys** » Fri Mar 26, 2004 1:22 pm

this evening i took the throttle body out and fuel was leaking out. Then, I noticed that the S/C is always flooded with fuel from the 5th injectory... I will check my wiring tomorrow....Greenfire, the when wiring the SC power wire (red) into the ECU, the instruction says to slit the Black wire orange strip. [http://www.gmgoodwrench.com/perfparts/i ... 498927.pdf]page 18/54, step 87, on my Vibe the wire i found at that same spot is solid black. It is hot only when the key ignition is at 'on' position and the when the key ignition is on 'acc' there is a low voltage ... I was wondering if it is correct...

joatmon · Post by **joatmon** » Fri Mar 26, 2004 2:16 pm

the vibe service manual says that the wire in that E6 pin 1 connector is black. There is a black with orange stripe wire in pin 9. Both are supposed to be Ignition voltage, the difference being pin 1 also runs through a "EFI relay" controlled by the ECU, where pin 9 is direct from the fuse block. if the 5th injector is causing flooding, maybe it' something with the wires in steps 78-80. maybe greenfire was right -> "Maybe for some reason it is getting a signal to stay open all the time and pushing in too much fuel. "

greenfire · Post by **greenfire** » Fri Mar 26, 2004 9:33 pm

Im not sure, about the color wires. The Vibe may be different than the Matrix as far as ECU wiring is concerened. It could be possible that the 4wd Vibe has different pins as compared to the 2wd. I doubt it, but you never know. Also when I had my Split Second unit installed, the installer got mixed up becuase his diagram showed the ECU upside down and we were in the wrong pin. Mach up all the little squares on the ECU plug with the diagram so they lign up correctly. The other injector wires should be wired to the piggyback unit. One of them is to measure RPMS. The RPMS is what tells the injector to come on and off. I bet this is where your problem is. (I hope )

Mavrik · Post by **Mavrik** » Fri Mar 26, 2004 10:10 pm

THis doesn't sound to good, and hopefully it will get up and working soon for you. Larry, the guys that did yours, maybe they would have some ideas to help? Wasn't yours losing power there at one point?Since I want an SC, I am following all this with interest. Good luck guys.

teammonkeys · Post by **teammonkeys** » Sat Mar 27, 2004 1:03 am

OK... This morning I checked the Supercharger ECU wiring.Page 14, step 77-80 is correct on my car. I noticed one thing on the S/C ecu, it does not have a ground wire like shown on figure 94 (page 16). It has the Red Power wire.Anyhow, when i pulled out the plugs from the ECU [leaving the s/c ecm adapter on the OE ECM], i start the car... it sounds like a normal start.But when i plug it in the s/c, and when i start the car, i hear a buzz during the duration when the key ignition is turned to "start". When i start the car without the s/C ecu plug in, no fuel came out of the fifth injector.I still can't get the car to start. I checked all the vacum hoses and nothing is left behind.I just want to get this solved so that i can drive it.

greenfire · Post by **greenfire** » Sat Mar 27, 2004 1:17 am

Did the car start and run normally with it unplugged?

teammonkeys · Post by **teammonkeys** » Sat Mar 27, 2004 1:19 am

joatmon · Post by **joatmon** » Sat Mar 27, 2004 1:47 am

Quote, originally posted by teammonkeys Â»I noticed one thing on the S/C ecu, it does not have a ground wire like shown on figure 94 (page 16). It has the Red Power wire.unfortunately the pdf doesn't show where the ground is supposed to hook up to the SC ecu,(and the photo in the pic http://forums.genvibe.com/zero...6.jpg isn't detailed enough) but it's possible that if the SC ECU isn't getting a ground from any where, then all of it's signals could be floating and no telling how it would behave.can you tell from lookng at the connector for the SC ecu if it's obvious where the groundd wire used to be?

teammonkeys · Post by **teammonkeys** » Sat Mar 27, 2004 2:15 am

nope... cannot tell by looking at the plug.I think i will take Greenfire(jason) advise... I will uninstall the S/C unit and put back OE stuff and see if my car will start. If not, then at least I can take the car to the dealer.I think by the end of this, i'll be a vibe s/c expert (really inside, i feel misery, dissappointed). LOLUnless someone has a better suggestion.

greenfire · Post by **greenfire** » Sat Mar 27, 2004 2:20 am

Very strange, the Toyota version does not have this ground wire. Looks like you have a Matrix SC ECU.? You mentioned it says TRD on the ECU, what does it say on the SC?

teammonkeys · Post by **teammonkeys** » Sat Mar 27, 2004 3:20 am

GM Goodwrendh

teammonkeys · Post by **teammonkeys** » Sun Mar 28, 2004 11:19 am

OK... everything on my car is stock...Initially, i had the S/C ecm adaptor on the stock ecm. Car didn't start. So, I took out the adpator and the car finally started. BUT... it will not rev any higher than 3K rpm and the "Check Engine" light was on. I had a guy diagnost the car and it says something about the Mass or volume air flow sensor. So, the car is going to the dealers to get this fixed.After awhile the car did not start and if it did, it would not idle very low rpm (300-400 rpm).The car will be towed tomorrow to the dealer. Hopefully the dealer wil have this fixed. Then, I can re-install the S/C and HOPEFULLY everything will be fine... (crossing my fingures). BTW.. I took out the S/C and put OE stuff in 4 hours... I was amazed of myself...

AKLGT · Post by **AKLGT** » Mon Mar 29, 2004 4:13 am

def keep us updated on what they find. hope it all works out and it's an easy fix!

Mavrik · Post by **Mavrik** » Mon Mar 29, 2004 7:56 am

Always takes less time to take things apart then put together isn't it.Well I hope your up and running very soon. Keep us posted.

teammonkeys · Post by **teammonkeys** » Mon Mar 29, 2004 12:01 pm

my car got towed to the Dealer today... Later in the day, the dealer called and said that the mass air flow sensor was bad. I will be getting my car back in a few days. Its a special order part. Hopefully that will fix the problem....

joatmon · Post by **joatmon** » Mon Mar 29, 2004 6:50 pm

do you think the MAF going bad was a coincidence?

teammonkeys · Post by **teammonkeys** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 2:02 am

I have no idea... I do plan to install the S/C again next weekend... This upcoming weekend, I would like to go SnowBoarding and I haven't driven my car nearly two weeks.If the MAF goes bad again, it maybe related to the S/C... It may have gone bad when I installed the S/C the first time around.

ebslopp · Post by **ebslopp** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 2:22 am

Are they going to cover the defective MAF sensor under warranty?

AKLGT · Post by **AKLGT** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 2:24 am

are they going to install it then or are you going to finish the s/c install yourself?

teammonkeys · Post by **teammonkeys** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 4:28 am

They will replace the MAF sensor with the factory warranty.I will install the S/C on my own...

Faultline · Post by **Faultline** » Sat Apr 03, 2004 2:19 pm

I dont know why , but I once got this bug to clean my MAS, but I forgot to diconnect the battery and so I promptly fried it ...I had the same roblem of not being able to go above 3k rpms...I ended up ordering one from a junkyard for 50.00 out of a 03 corrolla...which was identical #'s and all...Anyway the 3k rpm ,Iguess is called "safety mode" and it got me to work and back till the new one came in...It seems to me, that it would seem likely that you might have all the problems of running whacky A/f ratios when your car is not reading any of the air coming in

I hope getting this part clears it all up for you, as it did for me...I was promtly boosting again after I replaced the MAS...

teammonkeys · Post by **teammonkeys** » Sat Apr 10, 2004 2:42 pm

OK... Its a success...I started to install the S/C this morning at 8 AM and got done at noon..It worksss!!!!No problems.. Car starts... I can rev up to Red Line. No Check engine light... Car has some power with the S/C.

Faultline · Post by **Faultline** » Sat Apr 10, 2004 4:17 pm

Quote, originally posted by teammonkeys Â»OK... Its a success...I started to install the S/C this morning at 8 AM and got done at noon..It worksss!!!!No problems.. Car starts... I can rev up to Red Line. No Check engine light... Car has some power with the S/C.thats it???...."car has some power with the S/C"????...You gotta give a better review than that!!...Btw, do you have a boost guage??...Someone was posting about realizing that they were only running 3 psi all this time, and did not realize that till the boost guage. They switched some wires to fix it up to over 7 psi...big diff....

Mavrik · Post by **Mavrik** » Sat Apr 10, 2004 11:54 pm

Yeah man, details details!And mount a gauge right on the left side post along the driver's door/front windshield lol. Oh and a small fire extinguisher on the right... ok joking about the last one.

greenfire · Post by **greenfire** » Sat Apr 10, 2004 11:56 pm

This is good news. Im glad its all working out after all of that trouble. Yes your next item is a boost gauge. Now dont forget it will take a few hundred miles for the ecu to adjust. Make sure that valve is opening and closing when you rev the motor. I would drive it for a few weeks with no additional mods to make sure all is well. Then you can start on the other items

noginsk · Post by **noginsk** » Sun Apr 11, 2004 1:06 am

Hey teammonkeys, I just looked at your info sheet and it says you are in an AWD vibe? So how does that feel with the S/C vs a regular auto/stick?

teammonkeys · Post by **teammonkeys** » Sun Apr 11, 2004 2:00 am

Yes, my vibe is AWD... I haven't driven a FWD auto or manual s/c.I can feel the difference mainly on 3 and 4 gear... but I really can't tell much different on 1st and 2nd gear. Before the s/c, i'll have a hard time going from 65-80 mph. Now it actually accelerate thru the speed with no problems.. but not like a race car.I did buy a boost gauge and air/fuel mixture gauge...I had two problems:1. I didn't know where to plug in on the S/C for the boost gauge.2. Also bought a driver side pod for the gauges, but it did not look appealling to me.So, I returned it all.Another thing is that I want to see if the UniChip really improves the power..Jason, do you feel any improvements with the splitsec?

greenfire · Post by **greenfire** » Sun Apr 11, 2004 2:52 am

Ok there is a vacuum hose that comes out of the supercharger above that valve I was telling you about. It is a rather short hose. In the middle of that hose you need to cut it and install a "T" so you can split off another hose to run to your boost gauge. For everything else, follow the instructions that comse with the gauge. You should have power and a ground. You should feel power through ALL of the gears. Boost should go up to 7.5.The Split Second Unit is the way to go. Better results than Unichip. Talk to Larry on MO about that. It is also MUCH cheaper. Dont worry about this for now, you need to take care of other things first. A transmission cooler is next. Then exhaust and CAI. And last Split Second.