Consumer Reports likes the Vibe

[Houston]

Quote, originally posted by slingblade »Did C.R. mention that you need to tow your own paint booth behind the Vibe?CR tests new cars. The paint quality issue will be mentioned in the annual car issue, if enough CR subscribers report this on the lengthy questionnaire we all receive in the mail. I won't report that as an issue, because there is no problem with the paint on my Vibe. I suggest those of you who have this problem subscribe to this great magazine and then complain about your Vibe problems when you receive your questionnaire. Subscribers, not CR, determine their ratings.

[slingblade]

well I hope my local dealer is responsive to my paint issues tomorrow..I figure it's gonna look like a leopard in a couple of years..tiny corrosion spots...on a Frosty..have to change it to Frusty.

[AKLGT]

well, still, i can't complain all that much on my paint either. it's holding up surprisingly well considering i drove 350 miles one way from anch to fairbanks twice a month for 3 months last summer, drove down to the penninsula and all over, and even smacked the front end of the vibe into a snow burm! sure i have some chips in the hood, but that's to be expected. i'm more pissed about the cracks in my windshield than anything else!

[slingblade]

No cracks yet...fingers-crossed..although snow is melting like crazy here, plus 11 today, so there is a lot of sand and grit on the roads. I drive about 700km a week.

[sylvainber]

i concur. i'm in the #2 group. i drove 3 cavaliers (rentals) in the last 3 yrs (so each model year) and you couldn't pay me to drive a cavalier/sunfire (everything about it said to me that GM couldn't design a decent small car under 18 grands).the corolla 'guts' of the vibe is the only reason i was willing to consider a GM car. I've had a tercel wagon before and loved the car (except for the whimpy 1.5L engine in a 4WD wagon... pitiful)to GM's credit: some of the key enhancements over the regular corolla platform that are found in the Vibe/Matrix came from the GM design team (e.g. wide track, which is wonderful). I also prefer the way GM packaged the options (the base vibe made a lot more sense to me than the base matrix). So GM is in good part responsible for taking a boring corolla and making it fun and practical.so GM can conceptualize a great car (the Vibe is a stellar example) but i still prefer 'toyota under the hood' in general, i am for synergy where it can produce positive outcomes. i think the vibe is such an example.

[sylvainber]

car and driver labeled the vibe a 'sports bus' in their comparative review of small wagons... i found their tone 'cavalier' (sic) and very sophomoric. no real substance or systematic approach (a fact best exemplified by their use of the 'frat beer case cargo capacity' test).This is their first pass on the vibe, along with other 'CUV' wagons. The vibe didn't fair too well (yet, they appear to contradict themselves in several places:http://www.caranddriver.com/ar...ber=2They also did a review of the Vibe per se, which was more positive... go figure:http://www.caranddriver.com/ar...ber=1in 2003, they rated the ford focus a top 10 buy... despite the recalls and all... (the vibe was on the list of contestants )

[sylvainber]

Quote, originally posted by coratz »all car magazines including consumer reports are corupt. huge financial perks and free cars for a couple of years. i belive nothing i read in those magazines. how can a car test be done without bias????? no offense but... unless you can document that last assertion... this amounts more to slander than reliable info the best indicator of the reliability of a magazine's reviews is knowing how they conduct them. The devil is always in the details

[aggie_vibe]

Consumer Reports is the ONLY unbiased resource for auto reviews in my opinion, but I also love reading edmunds.com, canadiandriver.com, and familycar.com. You can tell I love this stuff. I've received CR for about a decade, and my Dad did most of my life before that. As others have posted, their reliabilty, satisfaction, and depreciation ratings are based on reader surveys (largest anywhere). They also anonymously buy their test vehicles from local dealers. I do not know JD Power's method so I can't comment on that, but some of their high ranking vehicles are suspect. CR bases their own ratings on different factors for different vehicle categories, but they never use cost, depreciation, or reliability. Their 'recomendations' require only an average reliability rating (from the survey). They also do not publish any survey ratings if they do not receive a large enough number of responses (new or very low volume cars).This "anti-american" magazine is now PRAISING american car companies for finally surpassing European reliability and edging closer to the Japanese. Their top rated small car is now the Ford Focus! If we the consumers did not know how horrible American car reliabilty had been, what would be their incentive to improve?

[tatooine315]

Ok I am a total ignorant person towards car stuff but at Edmunds.com They also give the PONTIAC VIBE a good rating mostly the 2004 rating When I first read it before purchasing the VIBE in 2003 there opinion was "iffy" at best..But now there opinion has gone up.... They say somthing like One that PONTIAC has hit its Mark with.....If anyone knows how to post that link it would be great....All I know is I bought my 2003 LAVA VIBE it has 32,000 miles and I LOVE IT!!!!!!!!

[Stang2Vibe]

Their "opinion" probably only changed after they found out that the Vibe is about 80% Toyota.

[Stang2Vibe]

Quote, originally posted by sylvainber »... unless you can document that last assertion... this amounts more to slander than reliable infoThen I suppose that 20/20 should also be sued for slander, as I believe that it was they who exposed CR about 10 years ago for having on their board of directors high-ranking corporate executives from Toyota Motors and Matsu****a Electronics. And I suppose that it was also mere coincindence that Toyota's vehicles and Matsu****a's electronic goods were consistantly at the top of CR's lists? Puhleeese!

[Stang2Vibe]

LOL! The site won't let me write "M a t s u s h i t a". LOL

[Stang2Vibe]

Quote, originally posted by bellwilliam »also it is not fair to say CR is biased toward foreign cars. look at Road and Track, Car and Driver, Motor Trend, all have negative things to say about Sunfire, Grand Prix, Grand Am, when was the last time they ever finished top in any comparisonThe Pontiac Grand Prix was Motor Trend's Car of the Year in 1988. The car remained largely mechanically unchanged until 1997. Somehow, it was given bad ratings during some of those years even though it was basically the same vehicle. I had a 1994 GP that I loved. After owning it for about 2 years, I found that CR listed it as a "Recommended Buy". Yet the only cars CR would really talk about in that class for about 10 years where the boring and ugly Accord and Camry. The Taurus would get mentioned sometimes only because it was consistently among the best selling cars in America at the time.

[joatmon]

Quote, originally posted by joatmon »saw a thread over at MO where someone posted According to Consumer Reports' April 2004 issue the Vibe is twice as reliable and more satisfying to its owners than the Matrix is to its ownersSo, who gets CR and can post the article?anybody actually subscribe to CR ?

[Stang2Vibe]

LOL. They probably just tried to count up the good comments about the Vibe on this site and compared them to the good comments about the Matrix on the MO site and voila!--instant "scientific" study.

[jake75]

But Car & Drivers thinks the Vibe is made in Ontario with the Matrix.

[mu_ohio]

The reason for the difference in rating between the Vibe and Matrix could come down to a common factor. Many Vibe owners where previous domestic owners especially of GM products. To them, the Vibe might seem like a great vehicle since it's built a lot better than say a Cavalier, Sunfire, or even an older Malibu. Those readers could turn in surveys giving high praise since the car is far ahead of the other products that they experienced. On the other hand, the Toyota respondents saw the Matrix as a so so vehicle quality wise since they are expecting the typical Japanesse contruction. Not saying that the car is bad, just that the Toyota respondents might have thought it was average compared to other foreign models. Personaly, after owning my Vibe for 18 months, I was disappointed and traded it in for a Mazda. Compared to the GM cars that I've experienced, the Vibe is great, but compared to the Hondas, Toyotas, and even Mazdas, the Vibe was just so so.

[Stang2Vibe]

Now that's an excellent observation! That may well be a plausible explination for the perceived difference. I could buy that arguement.

[Stang2Vibe]

Quote, originally posted by jake75 »But Car & Drivers thinks the Vibe is made in Ontario with the Matrix. > I can't believe that major automotive sources don't bother to fact check some of what they write in their publications. Why do people have to keep screwing up the facts about the Vibe and Matrix? >

[aggie_vibe]

The difference in reliability between the Vibe and Matrix was only 20%, but that was enough to call the Vibe 'above average' and the Matrix 'average'. I believe the previous post is partly true: Toyota owners expect more than most GM owners. Two other possibilities: they are built in different plants (quality can vary) and this CR data is only for one year. I suspect the ratings will be nearly the same next year. The Matrix was the lowest survey rated Toyota (by far). Those owners may 'perceive' their vehicles as lesser quality since they share some stuff with GM. The Vibe is the highest rated Pontiac, but that's no surprise.

[SGT]

I have always asserted that Toyota or Honda could take a dump on a plate and CR would claim it to be the most stylish and reliable mode of tranportation known to mankind. Sorry to those of you who really think CR is a great source of information. I have read it for 20 years and have found it to be extremely preferential to anything Japanese. Of course this is just my opinion. I actually had to laugh when my Brother in law was showing me his copy last year and commenting that there weren't any American cars in their "CR picks." I told him to look at the Vibe, I told him I was sure it was there because it is a Toyota under the skin. Sure enough it was and he laughed.

[Robert G]

Unbiased? Ask Suzuki whether CR was unbiased when it seemingly rigged its tests of the Samarai. They are still litigating that one. CR couldn't get out of it so easily.

[mu_ohio]

Quote, originally posted by SGT »I have always asserted that Toyota or Honda could take a dump on a plate and CR would claim it to be the most stylish and reliable mode of tranportation known to mankind. Sorry to those of you who really think CR is a great source of information. I have read it for 20 years and have found it to be extremely preferential to anything Japanese. Of course this is just my opinion. I actually had to laugh when my Brother in law was showing me his copy last year and commenting that there weren't any American cars in their "CR picks." I told him to look at the Vibe, I told him I was sure it was there because it is a Toyota under the skin. Sure enough it was and he laughed. I would believe that arguement if the typical Honda, Toyota, or Nissan had the same faults as the domestic offering. But, when you have cars like the Cavalier, Neon, and others, the foreigns look a lot better. From personal experience, I have not seen the domestics do as well as the Japanesse cars at any price range.

[SGT]

Quote, originally posted by mu_ohio »From personal experience, I have not seen the domestics do as well as the Japanesse cars at any price range.I will have to disagree because from my personal experiences I have had very problem free experiences with most of the domestic cars I have owned. I will say that I will never buy another Chrysler, even though they are now owned by Daimler-Benz. Maybe I have been lucky with most of my domestic cars. Either way, I have never liked the way CR reports and feel that their auto ratings are better used to line bird cages.

[Caretaker]

You talk as though CR has a bunch of testers who own these cars for all the model years of data collected. The results come from owners like me who painstakingly fill out their survey and report how crappy their American and European cars are. Line your bird cage all you want; it is a foolsh man who reads a magazine for 20 years and spends the rest of his time compaining about it. If you don't think Toyota builds the most reliable cars on the planet, and has a track record of over 20 years of doing so, good luck to ya, that's all I can say. I'll stick with common sense and proven results when making the second most important financial decision in my life.

[Stang2Vibe]

Ok, now I've got the same question that I brought up way back in the beginning of this thread about a year ago. How long do you keep your cars on average? I think I average about 3 years. That's not likely to change much. So (removed) do I care if the car I'm driving now will still be on the road 15 years from now? Do you see much of a market for 1978 Toyota Camry's? No. They are outdated and virtually nobody would want to go out and pick one as their first choice of a car when they go out to buy one. It doesn't matter much if it still runs trouble free and you could probably still get another 100,000 miles out of it at that point. Who the hell wants it?If a car would last me 5 years with minimum trouble, I'm thrilled. The car I owned the longest was the last Pontiac I owned and so far, it was still the best car I've owned so far. If my Vibe didn't have so many annoying little things going wrong with it, it would be right up there. The last Japanese car I owned was probably the worst car I ever owned. I like to have a little substance to the vehicle I'm driving, the entry level Japanese cars just don't offer that. (Granted, comperable domestics are about the same.) But I can get a domestic car that is a step up from entry level for about the same price as an entry level Japanese car. It will probably have more weight to it, more power, and more features that appeal to me. If it breaks down in 7 years and is junk, I don't care. If the comperable Japanese car is still going strong after, say, 14 years, I still don't care. It's probably changed owners at least 3 or 4 times by then so my buying that car new has absolutely no benefit to me whatsoever. If I took reasonable care of it so that it could run that long, I've done nothing of any benefit to myself, instead, I've just paid for the depreciation on the car and the upkeep on it for the next owner. What do I get for that? I lose thousands of dollars, that is my reward for that. So give me my enjoyable domestic cars that only last 5-7 years, let me beat the crap out of them and buy new ones. It's good for the economy, isn't it?And another major point. Is it not hypocritical of CR to claim to be unbiased and scientific in their testing of products when they don't do the research themselves and just rely on customer surveys? That's what JD Power does. CR always prides itself on its' claims that they do only their own testing on products that they recommend and that the testing all takes place in their specially constructed labratories. They test everything there from irons to bowling balls and report their findings. Thats fine for buying household appliances. I can trust and even appreciate the work they do and their findings on products like that. But how can I place total faith in their findings on cars based on customer surveys? I wouldn't necessarily trust an automotive survey that was completed by my own mother to base my next auto purchase on. She knows very little about cars. God only knows how many thousands of automotive idiots filled out the surveys that they are basing these reports on. And besides that, half of the qualities of the cars that they report on are irrelavent to me. I want to know if the thing looks good, will get up and go, and can I find aftermarket goodies for it. I am also concerned with the safety ratings as well, but I can easily get those for free from other sources. If the car is built so poorly that it is likely to develop major problems within the first few years of ownership, I've most likely already heard about it from people I know, other automotive sources, or the poor build quality would be self-evident when I test drive it. When it comes to cars, CR does nothing for me because I feel that they don't test for many of the major things that the new car buyer is interested in or should be interested in when looking into buying a new car.

[Caretaker]

good points. The thing about CR that makes me scratch my noodle is: how can they consistantly rate the VW Passat so high when it is typical Eurotrash just waiting to have electrical problems? How can they rate the Ford Focus so high when there is hardly a car which has had more recalls than that one? I look hard at the columns of data which are turned in by true owners. When CR tells me that they like cars like the Passat and Focus, I tend to dismiss it as personal bias. As for keeping your cars a short time; I'm envious. I can neither afford to do so financially nor comfort wise. Why to comfort? I am only 6'1 but have long legs. I fit (comfortably) in about 2% of the cars made in the world today, which is why the Maxx is likely to be my next car. I only wish I was shorter and richer and could afford to buy any car I like, at any time I like. I have been in over 30 cars in the last year alone and have settled in on 3 cars on my short list: The Maxx, the Honda Accord Hybrid, and the Toyota Highlander Hybrid. I just about know that I will not be able to affort the latter two since they will be priced about $4k above their current gas version. I'm 95% sure the Maxx will be my car. Buying GM (no my Vibe doesn't count) scares the hell out of me. Now you can wish ME luck!!

[SGT]

Quote, originally posted by maxx4me »Line your bird cage all you want; it is a foolsh man who reads a magazine for 20 years and spends the rest of his time compaining about it. The rest of my time complaining about it? Wow, I didn't realize you knew me so well. I rarely if ever speak about CR because I hold their magazine in such low regard. This topic came up here, I gave my opinion. I will say I worded my sentence wrong, I haven't read it for 20 years, glanced at it on occasion. I still think it is best used to line a bird cage, you may think it is good reading. Not sure if that is foolish or not. The ratings, to me, have never reflected true life experiences I have had with my domestic cars, and I have had quite a few.

[joatmon]

Quote »Ok, now I've got the same question that I brought up way back in the beginning of this thread about a year ago. How long do you keep your cars on average? I think I average about 3 years. That's not likely to change much. So (removed) do I care if the car I'm driving now will still be on the road 15 years from now?for what it's worth, when I bought my vibe on 12/30/2002, I traded in the pickup truck that I bought new in the fall of 1985. I realize that is not standard behavior for genvibers though.Now back to our regularly scheduled match.

[HIGHREV2]

For what it's worth, I bought my car the day after you did!! (12/31/02)I take the ratings of all review magz with a grain of salt. I treat them as well as their data can be. I think the Vibe beat the Matrix (p27) on a technicality P comes before T in the alphabet.I love my Vibe, for better or worse.

[Stang2Vibe]

Quote, originally posted by HIGHREV2 »I take the ratings of all review magz with a grain of salt.Then you are a wise car shopper. I can advocate using reviews as a guide, but even if every automotive source would concur that one particular model of car for a given year is far and away the best on the market, I can guarantee that there will still be a few of them that end up being lemons. With my luck, I would get one of them, too. joat---I've got to ask. That '85 pickup that you traded on the Vibe, was that the ONLY vehicle that you owned/used for the whole 17 years? Be honest now!maxx---don't take me the wrong way, I'm a 26 year old full time college student and I work part time for a paving company. Believe me, I'm anything but rich. When I trade in cars that are only 3-4 years old, they generally retain a lot of their value and knock a good chunk off the sticker price of a new car when I trade them in. I just make payments on the balance. My monthly payments are lower than leasing the car. Also, I have yet to pay off any car that I've had a loan on, I usually trade them in before paying them off. That reduces the value I get on the trade in (they subtract the payoff amount from what they are giving you for your trade in), but I generally have enough saved up to offset that loss. I just use some of that saved money as a down payment in addition to my trade in. The Vibe required a larger down payment because I really took a hit when I traded my Mustang on it and the Vibe is still the most expensive car that I've ever bought by a good amount. I understand that everyone's financial situation is different and that what works for me won't always work for others. I just don't want people here to think that I'm someone who I'm not. I just have some interesting ways of getting what I want sometimes so when I get the itch to get a new car, sometimes I have to get a little creative. And having good credit is a BIG help.

[joatmon]

Quote, originally posted by Stang2Vibe »joat---I've got to ask. That '85 pickup that you traded on the Vibe, was that the ONLY vehicle that you owned/used for the whole 17 years? Be honest now!No, the truck only had about 150K miles on it after 17 years. In 93 I traded in an '81 full size chevy window van for a dodge grand caravan. the caravan was my main driver for ~ 255K miles until I bought the vibe, then my son had it and recently went deer hunting with it. Got the check from insurance co, and won't repair it, it's a charitable deduction now. bought a used corolla to replace it.I also now have a third vehicle, a 68 firebird restoration project that needs more time and money than I can spare right now, so not sure when it will be on the road. But it sure is cool to sit in ---------------------------------------I give CR some credibility, but the ultimate reviews come from the people like us who spent their own money to buy one.Vibe =

[Fformula88]

Quote, originally posted by HIGHREV2 »For what it's worth, I bought my car the day after you did!! (12/31/02)I take the ratings of all review magz with a grain of salt. This can sometimes be very good advice, especially for some of the ratings. One of the favorite ratings auto company and industry people like to point to is the JD Power Initial Quality. The perception it gives is that cars that score low are lousy cars with all kinds of mechanical problems that will be sitting in the shop for most of their warrenty. But, its really a barometer of whether a car is meeting its owners expectations, and not necessarily in a mechanical sense. Last yuears figures rated both the Hummer H2 and Mini Cooper low. Why? The H2 did poorly because owners complained about bad gas mileage. There were no real defects, but if you take the ratings at face value you may believe there are defects. Well, maybe there was a defect... a lot of people bought it without being smart enough to notice it would get bad gas mileage. The Mini Cooper received a poor rating simply because its Cup Holder did not hold big cups. Again, not exactly a kiss-of-death engine problem here. Some cars have more problems than others, but the days of Yugos are gone. Even Hyundai's have respectable quality now. Sure some cars are better than others, but vehicle reliability is at an all time high, and I would expect any car on the market to make it to at least 100K miles without major problems.

[Stang2Vibe]

Hmmm.... 255K+ miles on a 1993 Chrysler product---I wonder, incedentally, what kind of ratings CR gave those minivans? Unless it was one of the 4 cylinder models with the Mitsubishi engine in it, that mileage would seem impossible to many who have replied in this thread! An American car still running after 255K miles? Quick, someone call the Vatican! Where are the naysayers now?

[JohnC]

Quote, originally posted by Stang2Vibe »Hmmm.... 255K+ miles on a 1993 Chrysler product---I wonder, incedentally, what kind of ratings CR gave those minivans? Unless it was one of the 4 cylinder models with the Mitsubishi engine in it, that mileage would seem impossible to many who have replied in this thread! An American car still running after 255K miles? Quick, someone call the Vatican! Where are the naysayers now? We had a 1985 dodge minivan with the mitsi v6 engine...the only prolem we ever had was a pressed-in plug on the head fell out along with the engine oil, the dealer said "there was a bad batch". We put over 180k before selling it and it was stil running strong. We usually keep our vehicles to about 200k miles. The one exception to that was an 86 Toyota Corolla...great car but just too booooooring. I figure the cost of the car is the total of purcase price, finance charges if any, all repairs, normal maintenance and gas divided by total miles. MPG can really make a difference when you figure 200k miles.

[kostby]

I finally read the CR quickie reviews of the Matrix and Vibe. They used the identical review in both places. (BIG Thumbs down)I find the Ratings compiled from CR subscribers surveys to be of more value. IMO Consumers Union has ALWAYS had a bias in monthly car TESTS. For decades, it has been 'anti-onshore' or 'pro-offshore'. If they are now acknowledging that 'domestic' cars have improved, it's probably because of the many 'foreign' manufacturers who built plants in North America, and have worked with the UAW to teach 'Deee-troit' how to build higher quality cars!!! Many Hondas, BMW's and Toyotas are built in North America. The Ford Focus, the VW New Beetle, and the Chrysler PT Cruiser are all built in Mexico.

[joatmon]

Quote, originally posted by JohnC » We had a 1985 dodge minivan with the mitsi v6 engine...the only prolem we ever had was a pressed-in plug on the head fell out along with the engine oil, the dealer said "there was a bad batch". We put over 180k before selling it and it was stil running strong. We usually keep our vehicles to about 200k miles. The one exception to that was an 86 Toyota Corolla...great car but just too booooooring. I figure the cost of the car is the total of purcase price, finance charges if any, all repairs, normal maintenance and gas divided by total miles. MPG can really make a difference when you figure 200k miles.my van had to have the tranny fixed twice, both under warranty. Developed a tap from one of the pistons at some point, I tried replacing the connecting rod bearings but that didn't help. TSB said to replace the entire piston assy, so I lived with the tap. Was a 3.3L v6, don't know who made it. It got ~20 mpg. I am definitely liking the 36 I'm getting in the vibe. At $1.50/gallon, the vibe saves me $0.033333 per mile. so after only 500K miles, the vibe will have paid for itself Kind of surprising though, after 40K miles so far, the Vibe has saved me about $1300 in fuel costs compared to what I would have spent on feeding the minivan. savings would be even better compared to the truck I traded in, which got 16-17 mpg.Anyway, I don't remember reading CR before I bought the vibe, I was a bit concerned about buying a 2003 since it was the first year for Vibes, not sure how many growing pains I'd have to deal with. regardless of whether CR liked or disliked it, I like, and that's good enough for me.

[Stang2Vibe]

If I had to guess, I'd have said that the tapping sound was being caused by a valve. Guess it's a pretty moot point now anyway though.The 3.3 V6 in those minivans were Chrysler motors. The 3.0's were Mitsubishi's. I'm about 90% sure on that. In any case, the tranny was definately Chrysler, and they are well known for tranny troubles.