Radio/light delay after key is removed

[cdFxer]

Somewhere I saw someone asking about this, but I have no idea what to search for. Anyway, there is a way to add this feature. You will need either one or two what they call delay-off relay's. If someone can supply me with schematics of the Vibe I can draw up a schematic of what needs to be done. It would be a pretty simple modification. If I EVER get time I would like to do this to my Vibe. My truck has it and I like it a lot.

[ragingfish]

My guess is there are capacitors involved too?

[Jahntassa]

What exactly do you need to know? I'm not sure how you would connect the relays, as I haven't seen a pin-out for one, but you could tap a diode into the doorpin for the driver door so the stuff didn't turn off with the other doors..This would be kinda interesting... Dunno if I'd do it to mine because of all the other stuff I have running, but I think it'd be good for most other people!

[cdFxer]

No capacitors needed, well there are some in the timed delay relay. The delay off relay does just what its name implies, when you remove power there is a delay before it de-energizes the contacts. I only wanted a schematic to: 1. make a diagram to show others how to do this 2. save me the time of chasing down the needed wires.Depending on the Vibes wiring, it would take a time delay relay and another DPDT relay to do the actualy interfacing to the "accessory lead wire" and the door circuit, that way as Jahntassa mentioned, the door opening would turn off the circuit. Logic wise, think of it as an XOR circuit with one input being the time delay and the other being the door witch plus the appropriate interfacing. This is a rough description as I would want to see what signals the Vibe is actually using before I make a complete description.

[Jahntassa]

I have a fairly good portion of the Vibe wiring info, and ragingfish has the service guide, so he can get you the rest. Would you be looking to power the ACC wire for the whole car, or just for the radio?Two things i'd like to see..1) The radio on a delay2) The windows on a delay.You could probably interface with these (again, with diodes) to make it work.. I don't know if i'd want the whole ACC circuit powered up, but then, it really doesn't run much, does it...So yeah, just let me know which wires you need, and I can probably get you location/colors. I know where 12v, ACC, Ignition 1/2 are..

[joatmon]

it would be great if it worked out that you could just replace the ignition relay (IG1) in the dash fuse block with a delay relay. seems like that could work, and be a relatively easy thing to accomplish without cutting multiple wires, (I like reversible mods) but someone needs to review the wiring diagrams to see if that would really do what is desired.

[Jahntassa]

Quote, originally posted by joatmon »it would be great if it worked out that you could just replace the ignition relay (IG1) in the dash fuse block with a delay relay. seems like that could work, and be a relatively easy thing to accomplish without cutting multiple wires, (I like reversible mods) but someone needs to review the wiring diagrams to see if that would really do what is desired. Ohh Miiiiiiike... time to pull out that service guide..!I'd be curious if anyone can come up with a diagram for one of these delay relays?

[Psychobroker]

To steal another Viber's word, I am

[ragingfish]

Quote, originally posted by Jahntassa »Ohh Miiiiiiike... time to pull out that service guide..!I'd be curious if anyone can come up with a diagram for one of these delay relays?Whatcha need chief?

[joatmon]

looking at the wiring diagrams some more, it appears that the ignition switch, in the ACC position, provides power through the CIG fuse to the radio, power mirror switch, the in dash cig lighter, and the coil for the relay that feeds the console 12V outlet.(the one I bypassed) There is no relay, just the ignition switch and the 15A cig fuse between these loads and the battery. The stuff that comes on when you have the key in the ign position runs through the IG1 relay . So, if you replace the IG1 relay with a delay off relay, you'd have stuff like power windows, but no radio.

[Jahntassa]

Okay...I found a schematic online for one of these delay relays.. Conceivably..I could actually build a "kit" to do all of this. As I am frequently bored, and like having odd things to do...I think i'll do that.What features do we want on it? IE. What parts do we want to be able to run until the door is open?- Power windows- Radio (12v outlets?)

[ragingfish]

I can't think of anything other than windows and entertainment that would need to be run without the car running. I'm trying to think of what I do at the gas station that I'd rather do with the ignition in the "off" position than on...But you also have to tie it into a door switch so it goes off when the door opens.

[joatmon]

Quote, originally posted by Jahntassa »I could actually build a "kit" to do all of this. go for the high demand mod instead. Build us a mod that will give an express one touch sunroof open/close capability. Do you take paypal?

[cdFxer]

moon roof auto close/open is doable too . Little trickier in that you may need two microswitches mounted up there. They would be almost invisible, above the headliner. Or perhaps just using a timer and a relay to do what is known as a "pulse stretcher"-in our case you would have the pulse last long enough to fully open or close the sunroof. The little pause thing in the middle will either make this a bit more complicated OR just deal with having one touch 1/2 open/fully closed. Or you can use a microcontroller to do it. Sounds like Jahntassa (I apologise in advance cus I know Im gonna misspell that before long, lol) has most of the info. Anything I can do to help or check, let me know. You could probably add a diode in the line feeding the windows from their 'normal' power source, then after the diode (between the diode and the window control circuit) run the wire to an extra set of contacts on your TDR (aka time delay relay) or to another heavier relay powered from the TDR. Voila-theres your isolation in the circuits. I am assuming that the windows are using relays and this mod would be powering the relays and not the window crank motors.Watch the current draw across the contacts of that TDR, you may want to use another heavy duty relay to protect the usually more expensive TDR.(removed), they power the power side mirrors and not the windows from the acc circuit? lololol, what was the engineer thinking....

[Jahntassa]

Quote, originally posted by cdFxer »(removed), they power the power side mirrors and not the windows from the acc circuit? lololol, what was the engineer thinking....That one, I think I can understand! Most times the'll do that because of the current draw possible from the windows. You don't want the stupid guy sitting in a parking lot, running his windows up and down on the ACC and killing his battery.. Those of us on this board are a little smarter than that..but take Joe Smith, give him more freedom than he normally should have, and see what happens. However, having the windows on that delay shouldn't be bad.. I'll do searches around and see what I can get...As I don't have a moonroof, what do you need to do to close it? Do you have to hold the switch down as it closes, then release, then hold it again? Or is it like, tap it, it starts to close, pauses, then you tap it again?

[cdFxer]

You have to hold the buttons to tilt up/down and open/close the sunroof. There is also a stop in the middle of the travel of the sunroof closing to prevent peeps from getting hurt who are hanging bodies or parts out the sunroof. Kinda dumb to have that safety feature. I prefer to think of it as thining the herd....The good deal though is, keeping the button pushed for a little bit longer than needed does not "jam" anythnig tighter, like the power door windows-IE the sun roof positions seemed to be on a fixed stop of some sort, or the motors that drive them release pressure when fully driven. Not sure which it is, but either way it makes the auto open/close/tilt easier to implement. I thought of a 5 or 6 wire add-on that could do the auto open/close on the way home tonight. It is simple, but would need a small program. I am thinking in the neighborhood of $50 or less.Hmmm, same thing could also be used with a bit more wiring for the delay we have been discussing.

[Jahntassa]

I'm pretty sure it wouldn't be too hard to do it so you could just tap the "close" and it would close all the way. Heck.. I could probably do it so you could tap it either way and make it automatic.. Like..tap open..then tap closed..Looks like a trip to radioshack next week!

[cdFxer]

Watch those prices! Checkout eBay, Newark/MCM, Digikey..etc. If you have trouble meeting minimums, let me know. I either 1) have connections with Newark or 2) may need something at the time. Remember Newark, MCM, and Farnell are the same but wildly differ in prices.

[Jahntassa]

Okay, looking at the diagrams for the moonroof, if you simply want to get rid of the first "Safety stop", it looks like you might be able to just snip one wire and be done with it.There're two limit switches built into the roof, labeled as "Limit Switch No.1", and "Limit Switch No.2" Chances are, if you cut the wire from No.1 going to the sunroof logic board (most likely in the switch itself) You should get rid of the little "safety stop"I don't have a moonroof, so I can't test it out. For someone who does...WARNING: I don't know which limit is the one that stops the roof from over-closing, and which is the safety. Whoever tries this out, be prepared to have to reconnect the wire if it's the wrong one. Those of you better with electronics might be able to use a multimeter to determine which switch is which. According to the diagram, when the limit switch is hit, it should go to ground.Get to the harness behind the moonroof switch, look for a Green/White wire. If you cut that, it should get rid of the safety stop. (Switch No.1)Switch No.2 is a Red/Blue wire.If you're looking dead-on at the connector, with the little "lock pin" facing upward, the two wires should be just below the "lock pin".If anyone is brave enough to try this, let us know.

[joatmon]

didn't mean to hijack the accesory power thread to be about the sunroof, maybe we should have a separate thread for it.I would be reluctant to cut out one of the limit switches. I would worry about them providing the interlock that keeps you from tilting the glass when it is slid back, or sliding it when it is tilted. Don't know if those interlocks are electrical or mechanical, or what role the limit switches play. Would suck though to have the glass tilted up and then slide it back and break something. If I get a chance today I will use a meter to come up with a logic table of what the limit switches indicate.

[Jahntassa]

I was thinking, actually..don't just cut the wire. I remembered a line I saw in another sheet that Mike had sent me that the limit switch should show 12v when running, then ground when it hits the limit.Joatmon, you might be right, I totally forgot about the tilt function. Good idea about the meter. See how it reacts.. If one of the wires I mentioned before goes to ground when it hits that center stop, then that should be the safety limit. If the pause is built into the logic, then i'll go back to my origional idea of a latching timed relay to close the roof.

[Jahntassa]

I'll start up a new thread in the "Tech Info - DIY" forum for the moonroof thread. Any further info on the 12v outlets / windows can continue here.

[ragingfish]

Once we figure out how to customize the button operation, maybe Justin can help me tie the open/close operation of the moonroof to that auxilary button on my remote starter, eh? eh? *poke poke* Just kidding man...

[Jahntassa]

If only I had a moonroof, it'd make it so much easier!And Mike...don't tempt me.

[ragingfish]

Man, I owe you a couple mini-kegs for all the help you've given me...if you were to help me do THAT, I'd owe you a couple 24 packs! LOL!

[ColonelPanic]

I received a brochure for the '05 Matrix in the mail yesterday... That thing apparently comes standard with retained accessory power! Didn't see it mentioned in the PDF of the '05 Vibe owner's manual, so I'm not sure if the new Vibes have it....Just thought I'd chime in with what I discovered, reviving an old thread in the process.

[ragingfish]

Nope, I just downloaded the 05 owner's manual, no mention of RAP.

[Jahntassa]

I really need to see an '05 up close and personal.. I'll see if I can get a chance to check my wiring info today. I'm getting more and more curious if GM isn't building the Vibe closer to their electrical standards now..

[kostby]

On my related WISH LIST...I've wondered for years why car manufacturers don't wire the "hazard flasher" circuitry to enable the power windows.Ideally, you could put the windows up or down without using the key, say when that sudden rainstorm interrupts your picnic, or when you're sitting as a passenger in a car, waiting for someone on a hot summer day.

[Jahntassa]

Quote, originally posted by kostby »On my related WISH LIST...I've wondered for years why car manufacturers don't wire the "hazard flasher" circuitry to enable the power windows.Power.You'd kill the battery way too easily running power windows with the engine not running. Plus, it'd potentially make it easier to steal something in the car, all they'd have to do is roll the window down. It's possibly very easy to make a fix to make your windows work all the time, but, you could run into the problems mentioned above. I know in Honda's they'll let you run the windows for a few minutes after you turn the key off, provided you don't open the door.

[ragingfish]

Quote, originally posted by Jahntassa »I know in Honda's they'll let you run the windows for a few minutes after you turn the key off, provided you don't open the door.GM cars with RAP do the same...my parents grand prix does that...