Camber change?

[engine1]

What kind of camber change have you found when you changed your springs?

[frostyGT]

scherry2 posted these numbers in another post:Quote, originally posted by scherry2 » BEFORE Alignment left-------------right-0.8 camber -1.1------------------ spec -1.3 to 0.2-0.22 toe -0.43----------------- spec -0.10 to 0.10cross camber 0.3 --------------- spec -0.5 to 0.5total toe -0.65 -------------- spec -0.20 to .20AFTER Alignment left------------right-0.8 camber -1.1 ----------------- spec -1.3 to 0.2-0.06 toe -0.00----------------- spec -0.10 to 0.10cross camber 0.3 -------------------- spec -0.5 to 0.5total toe -0.06 ----------------- spec -0.20 to .20the drop was 2.25 +/- .10 front and rearSee this post for more info:http://forums.genvibe.com/zero...age=1Hope that helps!

[MadBill]

Quote, originally posted by engine1 » What kind of camber change have you found when you changed your springs?The specs here from sherry don't tell the whole story. To know for sure the effect of lowering on alignment, what's needed is the numbers before the spring change vs. after. All we know here is that it was out after the drop, but it could have been out before also. Certainly it's better to play it safe and have the alignment checked after a drop, but if someone were to step up to a check before the new springs went in, we'd all know where we stand. (My guess is that camber likely stays fairly close, but that toe-in will need correcting)

[scherry2]

camber is the forward motion of the center line of the wheel/rim. the changing of the springs should have no effect on camber/caster.

[rasermon]

Good point there MadBill (before and after). After my alignment the dealer said it was probably like that when I purchase it. He said the alignment can go out of spec from being transported and strapped down tightly on the car carriers. Thats what I was told and not sure how true it is. What would your thoughts be on this?My alignment results last year after my spring install. http://forums.genvibe.com/zerothread?id=5664

[engine1]

Quote, originally posted by scherry2 » camber is the forward motion of the center line of the wheel/rim. the changing of the springs should have no effect on camber/caster. That is caster scherry, camber is the relationship of the tire leaning toward the car or leaning out away from it. Here is a quick explanation of camber, caster, and toe! http://www.artsautomotive.com/...y.htm

[scherry2]

oops, my mistake. when i audited front end alignment at GM 6 years ago. i remember we never adjusted caster or camber at the assembly plant in the repair area only toe and z-height. the GM trucks come non-adjustable (camber/caster) from the factory do cars?

[engine1]

Most are adjustable to a point ie, bolts at the bottom of the strut housing, spinning an offset ball joint etc. but that will usually only get you about a degree either way where a camber kit will give you exact adjustment. If you ever see the tops of the wheels leaning into the car, is the most obvious sign of much needed camber adjustment.

[MadBill]

I think it's more likely that it left the factory that way. As sherry says, a lot of vehicles these days are assembled without built in adjustability; they rely on precision dimensioning of components to bolt together "in spec", or at least close enough. Because of this, often part changes are necessary to correct/perfect/restore alignment in service. (e.g. some kind of eccentric washer on the control arm bolts to service the trucks sherry mentioned) In the case of the Vibe, the only camber "adjustment" I can see is the slight clearance of the strut mounting bolts in their holes, but I know eccentric bolts are available for service.

[OutLaW]

If I'm not mistakin. Soon as you turn these bolts here, your camber is going to be off. If you take out your struts, your never gonna get them back in EXACTLY the same way as you took them out. So you would need to do a alignment. Before and after on this would be errelevant since you are removing them bolts and moving the strut towers(even just a lil bit will throw it off). They might read positive before you remove the struts but they might read negative when you put them back in. It's not because the springs changed the reading. It's because you changed the reading by not putting them in "exactly" the way they came out(which is almost impossible to do). I'm not totaly positive on this. So please, if you know. Help me out.

[scherry2]

those 2 bolts only go in 1 spot. there is no slot just a hole they fit thru there is no adjustment there. When I took my vibe in after i installed my springs the mechanic told me he adjusted the toe, nothing else. so that tells me the camber and caster were alright in the first place. lowering it didn't put it in spec. what am I misunderstanding?

[MadBill]

There is a bit of play as OutLaW says, but it's hard to say how much it could change camber. Depending on just how much there is, my guess is 1/2 degree or more. In fact, I'm planning to slot the holes in my struts a bit so I can adjust the camber myself.

[scherry2]

Quote, originally posted by MadBill » I'm planning to slot the holes in my struts a bit so I can adjust the camber myself.may i ask why? is it because of the spacers?

[MadBill]

No, I just think it will corner better with a bit more negative camber, since it understeers quite a bit now. I will wait until I get a rear bar though, and then try to get on a track so I can take some tire temps and come up with a compromise setting that won't burn off the inside edges...Hmmm... If I can remember who our Autocross maven is, bet he's got some suggestions!

[OutLaW]

O-ok, I thought those 2 bolts were oblonged so you could adjust them. I thought all cars were like that. Just never seen a car that you couldn't. Thank you for clearing that up Scherry2. That's kindda weird. You into Autocross Madbill? I wouldn't adjust any of your suspention unless you are using this car for "only" autocross. Not worth it in the long run.

[engine1]

Don't slot the hole just yet, Specialty Tools make a couple of kits for these applications. They are very cheap and will provide exact correction without drilling into cast iron and not truly knowing what you are acheiving in the end. I was just wondering and I think if scherry can answer one question it would be; what springs did you use? I see you had no correction needed exept for toe. http://www.specprod.com/PROD_DIR/PROD_PASSCAR.html

[engine1]

P.S. The web-site abouve also gives detailed photos of installations of their products. This is a company that leads the industry in alignment issues, bookmark it for future reference for any front end problems!

[scherry2]

I used Tein springs

[MadBill]

Quote, originally posted by engine1 » Don't slot the hole just yet, Specialty Tools make a couple of kits for these applications. They are very cheap and will provide exact correction without drilling into cast iron and not truly knowing what you are acheiving in the end...Thanks engine! Those look slick!