Typhoon

[engine1]

Finally broke down and installed the K&N Typhoon and what an amazing difference..........................in my fuel economy!!!! I always knew the milage would be worse but it seems like the gas is spilling out on the ground or something. But holy crap does it sound good and goes like s**t thru a goose! I'm willing to pay the price!

[Raven]

You should actually get better mileage but the urge to BOOT IT all the time makes your mileage worse.

[shibaman]

I have an Injen CAI on my auto base and my in town mpg. has gone down. I haven't had a chance to check highway only but I think that it would be better.

[engine1]

Quote, originally posted by Sunny »You should actually get better mileage but the urge to BOOT IT all the time makes your mileage worse.Actually it is impossible to improve your milage by installing an intake such as these! You are drawing more air into the motor which means that your motor must add more fuel to maintain a balanced mixture! Never install a 'high-flow' filter thinking your are going to save money on gas! Performance and efficiency rarely go hand in hand, physics prevents this!

[Kissfan79]

So....how much of a difference can you tell in your car's performance? I had thought about the Typhoon awhile back.Jim

[Raven]

Quote, originally posted by engine1 »Actually it is impossible to improve your milage by installing an intake such as these! You are drawing more air into the motor which means that your motor must add more fuel to maintain a balanced mixture! Never install a 'high-flow' filter thinking your are going to save money on gas! Performance and efficiency rarely go hand in hand, physics prevents this! Why does K&N have proof of improved mileage and horsepower with their OEM replacement filters if it's impossible? I put a K&N on my GMC pickup and my mileage improved 1-2 MPG. I think you need to think about what you said. The motor only needs to add more fuel if there is more of a power demand. With better air flow the engine is more efficient. If you drive sedately with a CAI you will see improved mileage figures.

[rasermon]

Lots of other performance products can improve an engine's performance and fuel economy, too, including a high-flow intake system and a free-flowing exhaust. It's easy to understand why improvements to the intake system help: If you've ever tried drinking a really thick milkshake through a straw, you know how hard it can be to pull that fluid through an opening that's too restrictive. Your engine may be feeling the same way about incoming air.Exhaust system changes work pretty much the same way: If your engine is trying to force its spent gases out through an opening that's too small, it's wasting energy. Plus, if there's too much backpressure, some exhaust may remain inside your engine, which means there isn't as much room for fresh air and fuel to be burned, so you're making less power.As you know, I have both systems and my average (highway) MPG is 41 - 42.

[engine1]

Wrong. The fuel to air ratio must be kept balanced to burn (efficiently, as you put it) in the cylinder. More air in means more fuel to make it burn. I think you need to look at a K&N box, no where on any of my boxes does it say anything about milage gains. You may 'feel' you have gained something but K&N specifically makes no guarantees about milage savings, only horsepower and airflow! I have sold every high flow filter out there and none can claim milage gains! It is simple physics! What do you think a Mass Air FLOW sensor does. It meters the amount of incoming air and adjusts the fuel accordingly(along with the other dozen or so sensors under the hood). How do you think you achieve any horse power gain by using one of these systems! I don't think air burns by itself, you are making the motor burn more fuel! If you had simply more air and didn't add anymore fuel you would be running lean and the motor would not last very long at all, ask any mechanic and he will tell you the same thing!BTW Kissfan, i love it, I 'think' I feel something, especially on the bottom end but it sounds great and looks great!

[Geo]

I have a K&N Typhoon as well, and my mileage is now around 20-24mpg depending on how I drive The increase in performance is amazing. The sound is addicting, and you can just feel the car want to take off from underneath ya. I would seriously say go with the short-ram instead of the full CAI. MUCH easier to change and clean filters, and it looks a lot better as well. If you notice, K&N ONLY makes a Short Ram for the Matrix/Vibe, this is because in their own testing they found the gain between a CAI and a Short Ram were negligable. However, should they change their mind, you probably can buy an extension tube to the Typhoon to make it a full CAI. Others will argue this, but I personally feel that if more gains could be had with a CAI, K&N would have made one, they are afterall a company out there to make some money.

[AKLGT]

i have a trd cai, generally throws a cel. but with the unichip, it took care of that and runs pretty smoothly. now, my mpg is about 25 city and 32 hwy, and that's only due to my driving style: crazy. so, if i let up on the rpms and drove like most normal people, i'd probably look at 32 mpg city and 38 hwy, closer to rasermon. i also had a k&n fipk in my tundra, trd dual exhaust and gained about 1-2 mpg or more. i do remember reading and seeing on the packaging it's claims for higher fuel economy.

[engine1]

The K&N Filtercharger® is designed to increase engine performance in both horsepower and throttle response by reducing air flow restriction. This is a direct quote from K&N's website! No where does K&N mention better gas milage at all! Not even the testimonials! You guys should write in! http://knfilters.com/facts.htm This website is by Bosch( a little biased) but it very technical in describing how the O2 sensor, can and does change the amount of fuel comsumed depending on the demand ie. more air in the combustion chamber"By monitoring the level of unburned oxygen in the exhaust, the sensor(s) tell the engine computer when the fuel mixture is lean (too much oxygen) or rich (too much fuel). To compensate, the computer adjusts the fuel mixture by adding more fuel when the mixture is lean, or using less fuel when it is rich. That's the basic feedback fuel control loop in a nutshell."http://www.forparts.com/BoswidebandO2.htm I threw away the box that the actual filter came in inside the Typhoon box, does anyone remember what number it is, I want to get the cover to keep out moisture!

[AKLGT]

ok. so i don't think anyone's going to win your argument here. all i can say is that there was a definite increase in mpg when the intake was on vs off. after paying $40 every 5 dys at the fuel pump, it was quite noticeable. technical or not, my pocketbook spoke volumes to me.... shrug.

[Stang2Vibe]

I've got a question. Can't you just put the Typhoon onto a CAI? Would that not work, or would you just not gain anything by doing it?

[St. Martin]

My gas mileage went up also with the Injen CAI and Borla cat back. I'm betting on rasermon's unrestricted air flow explanation. An enginer that breaths in and out more easily is all around more efficient. I'm not saying you're absolutely wrong, engine 1, i'm just saying that my possible highway gas mileage has gone up. Much like everyone else, however, my average milaege is often lower than pre-installation because i drive like an a$$hole with the new sound and horsepower.The other explanation could be this:Since there are horsepower gains with these upgrades, drivers push the pedal down to a lesser degree to produce the same results. Basically, you can drive 65 on the highway at less RPM's and with the pedal not pushed down as far because the engine can breath more easily and has more Umph than before. As most would agree, less RPM's + less pressure on the gas pedal = Better mileage. To this effect, you're right, engine1. If you take two Vibes, one with CAI and one without and push the pedal down the exact same amount at the exact same RPM, you'll have probably the same mileage, maybe worse by the CAI. However, the CAI vibe will be accelerating faster and hauling more (removed) than the non CAI.now, by this assumption, if you take the same vibes and accelerate them at the same rate, drive the same speed, all around perform the same, the CAI vibe will have better mileage because the engine isn't being pushed as hard as the stock to perform at the lsame level.Just a thought.

[Raven]

Very good explanation, I agree 100%.

[MadBill]

Quote, originally posted by St. Martin »My gas mileage went up also with the Injen CAI and Borla cat back. I'm betting on rasermon's unrestricted air flow explanation. An enginer that breaths in and out more easily is all around more efficient. I'm not saying you're absolutely wrong, engine 1, i'm just saying that my possible highway gas mileage has gone up. Much like everyone else, however, my average milaege is often lower than pre-installation because i drive like an a$$hole with the new sound and horsepower.The other explanation could be this:Since there are horsepower gains with these upgrades, drivers push the pedal down to a lesser degree to produce the same results. Basically, you can drive 65 on the highway at less RPM's and with the pedal not pushed down as far because the engine can breath more easily and has more Umph than before. As most would agree, less RPM's + less pressure on the gas pedal = Better mileage. To this effect, you're right, engine1. If you take two Vibes, one with CAI and one without and push the pedal down the exact same amount at the exact same RPM, you'll have probably the same mileage, maybe worse by the CAI. However, the CAI vibe will be accelerating faster and hauling more (removed) than the non CAI.now, by this assumption, if you take the same vibes and accelerate them at the same rate, drive the same speed, all around perform the same, the CAI vibe will have better mileage because the engine isn't being pushed as hard as the stock to perform at the lsame level.Just a thought.St. Martin is very close. At anything less than full throttle, the driver is controlling the airflow via the throttle. The computer, through the various sensors, ensures the correct amount of fuel is injected. Thus if all is working correctly, there should be virtually no F.E. difference at any steady road speed. At full throttle, the reduced restriction permits more airflow, perhaps 105% of the previous maximum, and the accompanying increased fuel flow means more fuel consumption along with more power. Any time you use this added power, you will get lower F.E.NOTE: The above applies to a computer controlled engine! For an older carbureted engine, any air filter restriction acts like a choke, so a better filter can cause the engine to run leaner at all times, thus increasing F.E. as well as power.

[St. Martin]

Quote, originally posted by MadBill »St. Martin is very close.Really? i was kind of talking out of my (removed). Well, i guess those two engineering degrees ARE good for something after all!

[engine1]

Couldn't have said it better myself Bill!But the jist of my original post was that I truly love the performance gain despite the drop in F.E..

[Stang2Vibe]

Quote, originally posted by St. Martin »Basically, you can drive 65 on the highway at less RPM's...I have to disagree with this idea. I would think that the only way to change the RPM's at any given speed would require a change in gearing. How much more or less flow of gases into and out of the engine are irrelavent to this factor. It may change the amount of fuel consumed, but the RPM's will still be the same because of the gearing ratios.

[goodvibe]

Madbill's got it right but I believe that most CAI/short will probably run a little lean in general. We, especially GT, run a bit rich at high RPM and WOT. Probably becuse it's safer and cooler. These intakes are optimized to correct the a/f ratio at these conditions to get the highest peak #s. This could create a slightly more lean ratio at other conditions thereby giving very slightly better mileage under mild driving conditions. If you put your foot into it, the best you could do is a break even because you're flowing more air/fuel. That said, low rpm power and throttle responce would suffer and possibly throw CELs from being lean (sound familiar?). If your getting better mileage, it's not all good and your trading something. It's one of the reasons I havn't bought a CAI for my GT since I have pretty good air flow anyway. There seems to be less trade-offs on base models wiyh intakes. Unichips etc. see the most gain at lower RPMs with a CAI. There's a reason and I bet the mileage drops more with it. engine1, sounds like K&N may have got it right.

[Geo]

Stang - In theory you could put the Typhoon filter on a CAI, HOWEVER, K&N does not sell the filter by itself from what I remembered. They save their best filter for their products, which is why you see K&N on other CAIs, but just not the Typhoon filter.Would be interesting to see if someone ordered the typhoon filter replacement and put it on a CAI though, see if there is a noticible increase in power or not.

[FusionVGT]

Anyone with the Typhoon care to comment on how loud it is?

[engine1]

Sounds like the biggest vacuum leak ever, first thing in the morning. Just this amazing sucking sound! That combined with the tone of the 60 series is music to my ears!

[drunkenmaxx]

is this thing we're talking about that doohicky that makes the air spiral, increasing something or other? i think i have seen an infomercial about them.

[Kissfan79]

No...this is the K&N Typhoon short RAM inrake system. They are just referring to the actual filter itself on the end of the intake.Jim

[hman33]

I've had a Typhoon kit on my GT for about 5,000 miles now. I noticed power gains right away and it sounds great when lift kicks in.Not sure if gas milage increased, but not to worried about that. Knock on wood, no cel yet. Now working on getting a Borla exhaust for it.

[FusionVGT]

Where's a good place to buy one?

[AKLGT]

Quote, originally posted by drunkenvibe »is this thing we're talking about that doohicky that makes the air spiral, increasing something or other? i think i have seen an infomercial about them.no, that's a tornado.

[trocar]

Trocar posted his opinion, then felt that it was not required on this thread...so he removed it.

[rcasciola]

should of got AEM!!!

[engine1]

six of one half dozen of another!

[mkosem]

I've got one for sale in the for sale forum if anyone's interested.--Matt