Dyno for SC Auto and Manual Matrix

Larry · Post by **Larry** » Sat Nov 22, 2003 8:47 am

I posted this on Matrix Owners but though you guys would be interested as well. Both cars have a header-back exhaust by JP Performance and a air/fuel controller by Split Second. Here are the numbers with the SC but before the exhaust and air/fuel contorller: Manual before: Max WHP: 145.4 Max Torque: 133.4 After exhaust and tuning: Max WHP: 169.2 Max Torque: 147.2 Auto before: Max WHP: 144.7 Max Torque: 127.4 After exhaust and tuning: Max WHP: 158.9 Max Torque: 133.7 Things to note for the auto: At about 3700 rpm the gain in torque is 14 lbs. Very nice. For the manual, the gain looks like it's across the powerband. What's interesting is before the tuning the manual and auto had about the same amount of hp. The manual benefited the most from the mods but both are very impressive gains. The manual now has more hp to the wheel than it would at the crank with the SC only and the auto is very close to it as well. I'd say both cars are at about 200 hp at the crank. Here is the auto dyo: And here is the manual dyno:

Faultline · Post by **Faultline** » Sun Nov 23, 2003 5:42 am

the dynoes did not show up on my screen here, but I saw them over at MO....what I really like about the SC is how well it effects the whole power band!..it is very wide!...nice work comparing the manual w/ the auto....and I hope that every one catches that this comparison is w/ the SC and SC +mods....not w/ NA....

Larry · Post by **Larry** » Sun Nov 23, 2003 6:24 am

Quote, originally posted by Faultline Â»the dynoes did not show up on my screen here, but I saw them over at MO....what I really like about the SC is how well it effects the whole power band!..it is very wide!...nice work comparing the manual w/ the auto....and I hope that every one catches that this comparison is w/ the SC and SC +mods....not w/ NA....That's strange. Maybe the host site was down for awhile but it seems to be working for me. Yes, all dynos are done with the SC installed. Here is one before the SC was installed, but with CAI and TRD exhaust:

MadBill · Post by **MadBill** » Sun Nov 23, 2003 10:22 am

Great data, Larry I'm sure I've seen higher power curves for the base engine though. (although there are of course lots of variables that can affect the numbers.) Oh, wait: This is for the auto, which presumably soaks up more horses than the manual...One surprise is those ultra-lean air/fuel ratios on the non-SC engine! Wonder if the CAI and exhaust are entirely responsible, or if (more likely) the stock calibration is already pretty lean and they just push it further? (Why does data always drive the need for more data?)

Faultline · Post by **Faultline** » Sat Jan 10, 2004 3:50 am

Has anyone heard if the manual matrix SC's have wheel hop problems

Larry · Post by **Larry** » Sat Jan 10, 2004 2:01 pm

Quote, originally posted by Faultline Â»Has anyone heard if the manual matrix SC's have wheel hop problemsI've driven one with my setup and didn't notice it although it was a short drive. I'll ask the owner and post his answer here. Here's the answer in his words. This is with the air/fuel contorller and water/alcohol injection so it has quite a bit more power than a stock SC. no, i haven't had a problem with wheel-hop at all. i've been enjoying boost so much though that i've had to refill the reservoir with almost every other tank! must be the miles and miles of city driving over the past month or so...

highrevvibegt · Post by **highrevvibegt** » Wed Jan 28, 2004 5:36 am

I'm glad i got my vibe gt that already has 180hp, and didn't waste $3,000 on a supercharger that was supposed to get 180hp from 130hp. Looks like from the results that if you do alot of tuning you might get it @ 180hp, but i wouldn't waist the money. IMO

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Larry · Post by **Larry** » Wed Jan 28, 2004 6:14 am

Quote, originally posted by highrevvibegt Â»I'm glad i got my vibe gt that already has 180hp, and didn't waste $3,000 on a supercharger that was supposed to get 180hp from 130hp. Looks like from the results that if you do alot of tuning you might get it @ 180hp, but i wouldn't waist the money. IMONo offense but this is an ignorant statement. Go get a dyno and post it up and we'll do a comparison.

wicked1981 · Post by **wicked1981** » Wed Jan 28, 2004 6:16 am

Well what about insurance? Im sure its cheaper.. guess you can make up those $3000 in the long run!!!

Larry · Post by **Larry** » Wed Jan 28, 2004 6:42 am

Quote, originally posted by wicked1981 Â»Well what about insurance? Im sure its cheaper.. guess you can make up those $3000 in the long run!!!I don't want to get too off topic but just to add what you said, the last time I checked the base model is cheaper than the GT to start with.

highrevvibegt · Post by **highrevvibegt** » Wed Jan 28, 2004 1:02 pm

Manual before: Max WHP: 145.4 Max Torque: 133.4 After exhaust and tuning: Max WHP: 169.2 Max Torque: 147.2 Auto before: Max WHP: 144.7 Max Torque: 127.4 After exhaust and tuning: Max WHP: 158.9 Max Torque: 133.7 are these comparisons with and without a supercharger? I was told by the dealer that the GT model comes with the 180hp without the SC. Which is true, and he said if i get the base model 130hp the SC i can get with and that will get me about 180. My point is why pay 3,000 to 3,500 for a supercharger when you can have a GT that already has 180hp with it and pay almost the same amount, and have something go wrong with the SC in a couple of years or so. Doesn't make any sence to me. Does it make sence that if you have a SC your vibe is better than the other one? NO is my answer. I believe its just another aftermarket scandel. Because when someone here's a SUPERCHARGER they run out and get it, and automatically think they are the shiznit. Owell its just my opinion. Thx to all for reading this LOL. O yeah and LARRY it wasn't an Ignorent statement , u took it the wrong way, typical person who wasted his money on something he could put twords a house, bt like i said , u must be one of those people out there who thinks he is the shiznit. I rest my case . I'm sorry to everyone who thinks negative of this but like i said before It's my opinion.

Larry · Post by **Larry** » Wed Jan 28, 2004 1:13 pm

It is an ignorant statement. You're comparing your crank hp to my wheel hp. That demonstrates ignorance. My power is throughout the power band, not just above 6200 rpm. I have 133 lb-ft. of torque at the wheel. You have 127 lb.-ft at the crank. That extra torque makes it a great daily driver. You're not comparing apples to apples. My SC is under the drivetrain warranty. Why would you think something will go wrong with it in a couple of years?

wicked1981 · Post by **wicked1981** » Thu Jan 29, 2004 12:14 am

I still think in the long run insurance makes up for it. I mean you will pay insurance for the rest of the time you have the car say you have it for 10 years. 10 years of paying more?

highrevvibegt · Post by **highrevvibegt** » Sat Jan 31, 2004 10:24 am

HA HA HA, still a waste of money, If you want that extra 10 to 20lbs of torque for $3,000 go for it. Your SC is under the drivetrain warrenty, OK, what about wear and tear they don't cover that do they? My point is you got the SC for a reason, and us other vibe gt and base vibes with SC's know what that is. So you can do what ya want its your Station Wagon not mine.

FusionVGT · Post by **FusionVGT** » Sat Jan 31, 2004 10:32 am

It's clear you don't get it. Why bash someone for putting blower on a VibeTrix?

Larry · Post by **Larry** » Sat Jan 31, 2004 12:25 pm

Quote, originally posted by highrevvibegt Â»HA HA HA, still a waste of money, If you want that extra 10 to 20lbs of torque for $3,000 go for it. Your SC is under the drivetrain warrenty, OK, what about wear and tear they don't cover that do they? My point is you got the SC for a reason, and us other vibe gt and base vibes with SC's know what that is. So you can do what ya want its your Station Wagon not mine. According to Pontiacs web site:Base Vibe: Base MSRP: $17,165 * as shown: $17,490 before incentivesGT Vibe: Base MSRP: $20,115 * as shown: $20,115 before incentives Okay to help clear this up for you, let me do the math for you. Take $20,115 and subtract $17,490 and you get $2625. Now try to stay with me. 1. The Vibe GT cost more than the Base model. 2. The Vibe GT cost $2,625 more or less depending on the options. 3. The Supercharger cost about $2,600. Are you still with me? Okay, now take the cost of the Base Vibe, and throw a Supercharger on their and the price is about the same. I hope this helps you understand that it's not $3,000 more than the GT but brings the price up to the cost of the GT. Okay, now that we've covered the cost issue lets move on to the wear and tear issue. TRD did extensive test with the Supercharger and found that it did not cause any additional wear and tear to the engine. The engine it built to handle 7.5 lbs. of boost without a problem. Okay now your final point of it being a waste of money. This can be a little tricky so really concentrate and think about what I'm about to say before you reply. We all have different values. Just because it may be a waste of money for you doesn't mean it is for me. Many people don't buy the GT version because it cost more. Some of them think it's a waste of money. Now obviously it wasn't for you and just because someone else thinks the extra cost is a waste doesn't necessarily mean it is for you.Oops. My bad. Almost forgot the issue of I can do what I want with my station wagon not yours. Thanks for clearing that one up. I was wondering about that. I hope this clears things up for you.

highrevvibegt · Post by **highrevvibegt** » Sat Jan 31, 2004 2:23 pm

Quote, originally posted by Larry Â»According to Pontiacs web site:Base Vibe: Base MSRP: $17,165 * as shown: $17,490 before incentivesGT Vibe: Base MSRP: $20,115 * as shown: $20,115 before incentives Okay to help clear this up for you, let me do the math for you. Take $20,115 and subtract $17,490 and you get $2625. Now try to stay with me. 1. The Vibe GT cost more than the Base model. 2. The Vibe GT cost $2,625 more or less depending on the options. 3. The Supercharger cost about $2,600. Okay, now that we've covered the cost issue lets move on to the wear and tear issue. TRD did extensive test with the Supercharger and found that it did not cause any additional wear and tear to the engine. The engine it built to handle 7.5 lbs. of boost without a problem. OK dumass then u should have bought a GT instead having so called mechanics ripping apart you brand new car just to stick a $2600 FAN in it get my point now Superchargers are for the NHRA. Thats where they serve a point and actually give ya power. They did extensive test lolollo, extensive my (removed) , like they would drive the car for 50,000 miles for the test, NOOOOOOOO they rely on computer to give them an answer. We'll see who's is in the garage first .

Larry · Post by **Larry** » Sat Jan 31, 2004 2:42 pm

No need for name calling. I'm just trying to clear up some misinforation you seem to have. A computer didn't tell Toyota the SC is safe for their engine. All TRD superchargers are installed and tested to ensure the durability of the supercharger system and the engine families on which they are used. Lengthy full-throttle dynamometer test sessions are conducted on supercharged engines which are then disassembled and inspected for any sign of accelerated wear. Likewise, supercharger-equipped vehicles are run through closed-course proving ground test sessions designed to simulate thousands of miles of severe use to ensure that powertrain along with engine durability is not diminished. Dynamometer testing is one of the most grueling test and engine can be put through. Based on Toyota's excellent repuation for dependability I have no problem trusting them at their word.

highrevvibegt · Post by **highrevvibegt** » Sat Jan 31, 2004 2:55 pm

Quote, originally posted by highrevvibegt Â»OK dumass then u should have bought a GT instead having so called mechanics ripping apart you brand new car just to stick a $2600 FAN in it get my point now Superchargers are for the NHRA. Thats where they serve a point and actually give ya power. ok No comment on this?

FusionVGT · Post by **FusionVGT** » Sun Feb 01, 2004 12:02 am

Where's the moderator?

Post by **NSimkins** » Sun Feb 01, 2004 1:04 am

Quote, originally posted by highrevvibegt Â» ok No comment on this? No, there should be no further comments along these lines. The thread has become more inappropriate than anything and the language used is not appreciated. This is a warning to you.

AKLGT · Post by **AKLGT** » Sun Feb 01, 2004 7:04 am

Quote, originally posted by NSimkins Â»No, there should be no further comments along these lines. The thread has become more inappropriate than anything and the language used is not appreciated. This is a warning to you.yes, i agree. why take a friendly disagreement and make into name calling and bashing. everyone's entitled to their opinions. i have a gt, didn't want to go w/ the sc, but if available for my 2zz engine, i would most likely consider it.

St. Martin · Post by **St. Martin** » Sun Feb 01, 2004 11:28 pm

hey, highrevGT,I also have a GT vibe, and am happy about that. I, like you, would rather have this than a SC base. (personally, i'd rather have a Turbo GT, but i can't find that extra $5k to do it.)BUT, why do you have to be a jerk and post in the Forced Induction forum when this guy is just posting his numbers. If you have some honest mathematical logical point, make it. Otherwise don't make an opinion post in a non opinion forum. The guy is posting great numbers, better than our GT's, and that was his point. Go ***** in the off topic forum if you really want to, but keep the drama out of the techie section.

wicked1981 · Post by **wicked1981** » Mon Feb 02, 2004 12:30 am

Quote, originally posted by Larry Â»According to Pontiacs web site:Base Vibe: Base MSRP: $17,165 * as shown: $17,490 before incentivesGT Vibe: Base MSRP: $20,115 * as shown: $20,115 before incentives Okay to help clear this up for you, let me do the math for you. Take $20,115 and subtract $17,490 and you get $2625. Now try to stay with me. 1. The Vibe GT cost more than the Base model. 2. The Vibe GT cost $2,625 more or less depending on the options. 3. The Supercharger cost about $2,600. Are you still with me? Okay, now take the cost of the Base Vibe, and throw a Supercharger on their and the price is about the same. I hope this helps you understand that it's not $3,000 more than the GT but brings the price up to the cost of the GT. Okay, now that we've covered the cost issue lets move on to the wear and tear issue. TRD did extensive test with the Supercharger and found that it did not cause any additional wear and tear to the engine. The engine it built to handle 7.5 lbs. of boost without a problem. Okay now your final point of it being a waste of money. This can be a little tricky so really concentrate and think about what I'm about to say before you reply. We all have different values. Just because it may be a waste of money for you doesn't mean it is for me. Many people don't buy the GT version because it cost more. Some of them think it's a waste of money. Now obviously it wasn't for you and just because someone else thinks the extra cost is a waste doesn't necessarily mean it is for you.Oops. My bad. Almost forgot the issue of I can do what I want with my station wagon not yours. Thanks for clearing that one up. I was wondering about that. I hope this clears things up for you. Ha ha ha this is too funny!! Good one Larry but you are wasting your time people that are always "RIGHT" will not learn to listen.

Larry · Post by **Larry** » Mon Feb 02, 2004 1:27 am

Sorry for getting into it with him. I to think the GT is a great car and if I had that car I'd also be happy with it. For me it's become more of a hobby to see what I can do with the car. Both models have good power but get in a different way. I have no idea why someone goes on the attack when another person decides to take a different route to get power than they did.

AKLGT · Post by **AKLGT** » Mon Feb 02, 2004 5:20 am

Quote, originally posted by Larry Â»Sorry for getting into it with him. I to think the GT is a great car and if I had that car I'd also be happy with it. For me it's become more of a hobby to see what I can do with the car. Both models have good power but get in a different way. I have no idea why someone goes on the attack when another person decides to take a different route to get power than they did. hey, that's ok. i agree with you. i have the gt and wanted that opposed to the sc base. but that's what works for me. everyone is different so i guess what floats your boat. i'd love to do more to my engine, but just can't justify the cost. i've already dumped a crap load of money into my car as it stands!

Dyno for SC Auto and Manual Matrix

Dyno for SC Auto and Manual Matrix

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