The Battery Issue

joatmon · Post by **joatmon** » Tue Jan 27, 2004 12:36 am

Is there some GM reference point that explains the voicemail system? I called another dealer today, and they vehemently denied the existence of any kind of system like the "voicemail" described in this thread. They swore they only time they can do anythiing like the reported battery fix is when they get a printable version of an officially released TSB. (hey salsa!, congrats on 3000 posts!)

Stang2Vibe · Post by **Stang2Vibe** » Tue Jan 27, 2004 1:21 am

I'd like to leave GM a voicemail. And sing the "Duh, Duh, Duh" song at the end.

St. Martin · Post by **St. Martin** » Tue Jan 27, 2004 2:36 am

well, another one bites the dust.Went out to the vibe this morning and it wouldn't start. This is the first time i've checked this thread and I found a billion posts on the topic, of course. Called 1800Roadside, they're sending a vulture (aka tow truck) to get the vibe and take it to the nearest dealership. They assured me everything would be covered under warranty at no cost to me. I'll keep everyone posted.One more funny thing, since my car ACTUALLY needs to be towed, they said the tow driver could be here in about 2 hours. However, when i illegally park on campus to drop off library books, you bet your (removed) the tow driver is there in 2 minutes. Such is life.

Post by **NSimkins** » Tue Jan 27, 2004 4:11 am

Another updateOk.. I think I have a few things squared away this time, thanks to Jeff. In regards to the voicemail sent about the battery, the whole voicemail system appears to depend on whether the dealer checks their messages frequently, or at all. Jeff stated many dealers are very religious on this while some slack and fill-up their mailboxes and never get pertinent updates.The good news is that the dealer will now be able to call their Technical Assistance number in regards to the battery. A PI (Preliminary Information) document has been entered into the system for dealers that call to inquire on the Vibe battery. This system is shared between US and Canada and should be there now. A little more leverage for those of you with cold start problems to put onto your dealer if they are not cooperative -- until a TSB is released.

Sub-Vibe-R · Post by **Sub-Vibe-R** » Tue Jan 27, 2004 6:26 am

My dealer will receive a call tomorrow morning.Be sure of that.

Raven · Post by **Raven** » Tue Jan 27, 2004 6:33 am

Called my Service Manager about an hour ago and the only thing he has heard about the battery issue is what I told him a month ago when I got my Conti's replaced under warranty. I'm going in tomorrow for a wheel alignment under warranty and he said he will know more then after he calls GM. I hope to kill two birds with one stone. I'll let ya'll know.

Pump233ca · Post by **Pump233ca** » Tue Jan 27, 2004 9:45 am

Just wondering out loud here....but my 2003 Corolla S has the same Battery and charging system as my 2003 Vibe, I think?. My Corolla feels the cold but turns over a lot stronger than my Vibe ever did/does, any rumbling coming out of Matrixowners.com or 2003corolla.org, I remember reading in the Matrix site a bit about the "Crap batteries"

VibeSalsa · Post by **VibeSalsa** » Tue Jan 27, 2004 11:04 am

Quote, originally posted by NSimkins Â»Another updateThe good news is that the dealer will now be able to call their Technical Assistance number in regards to the battery. A PI (Preliminary Information) document has been entered into the system for dealers that call to inquire on the Vibe battery. This system is shared between US and Canada and should be there now. A little more leverage for those of you with cold start problems to put onto your dealer if they are not cooperative -- until a TSB is released.Thanks Nick for this precious information. My Vibe will have an oil change on Friday this week. Last week, when I called my dealer for this, they were not knowing anything new about the battery. But I said to him Ã‚Â«we'll talk about that...Ã‚Â» He said: Ã‚Â«we could ask to my technicians to search for this information.Ã‚Â»So I will tell them to talk to this line.... I hope they will know the telephone number...

Sub-Vibe-R · Post by **Sub-Vibe-R** » Tue Jan 27, 2004 11:17 pm

I called my dealer this morning. The service manager told me he called GM and they are not aware about any trouble with the Vibe battery and there's nothing regarding a battery upgrade.The GM DSM will come this week and he will talk about this to him. He told me he got 2 Vibes with battery trouble and he kept my e-mail to give it to the DSM.

millster · Post by **millster** » Tue Jan 27, 2004 11:29 pm

Just spoke with the service manager from Rimrock Pontiac here in Billings. He said he's not aware of any voicemail regarding the battery but he would write it up and check into it further. I'll be going in later this morning, so I'll update when I get back.

SCTM · Post by **SCTM** » Wed Jan 28, 2004 1:21 am

Quote, originally posted by Sub-Vibe-R Â»The service manager told me he called GM and they are not aware about any trouble with the Vibe battery and there's nothing regarding a battery upgrade.We still have the same easy answer from GM (deale and/or 1-800service) Easy, because when we present at the dealer or call on phone 1-800... we're alone, so it's easy for them to say: "never heard of it before..." Easy, because they got another answer: "it's Toyota's fault and they must come first..." When I called 1-800GM yesterday, I asked if there's any report beeing made on that battery from other customers: "Don't know and if there's any... it's "confidential to GM only" !!! So we won't know unless there is someone at GM coming on this forum and let us know that were not "alone" and get their pants on. Listen GM WE ARE FRUSTRATED - SO MOVE ON .

Sub-Vibe-R · Post by **Sub-Vibe-R** » Wed Jan 28, 2004 1:40 am

Quote, originally posted by SCTM Â»We still have the same easy answer from GM (deale and/or 1-800service) Easy, because when we present at the dealer or call on phone 1-800... we're alone, so it's easy for them to say: "never heard of it before..." Easy, because they got another answer: "it's Toyota's fault and they must come first..." When I called 1-800GM yesterday, I asked if there's any report beeing made on that battery from other customers: "Don't know and if there's any... it's "confidential to GM only" !!! So we won't know unless there is someone at GM coming on this forum and let us know that were not "alone" and get their pants on. Listen GM WE ARE FRUSTRATED - SO MOVE ON .My dealer knows I'm not alone, because someother Vibe owners complain about the same thing.It is really time to GM to dress up his pants!!

SteveP · Post by **SteveP** » Wed Jan 28, 2004 2:38 am

I did a google groups search on"2003 Corolla Battery" and thought this result was interesting: http://groups.google.com/group...num=1

joatmon · Post by **joatmon** » Wed Jan 28, 2004 5:10 am

Quote, originally posted by SteveP Â»I did a google groups search on"2003 Corolla Battery" and thought this result was interesting: http://groups.google.com/group...num=1 I remember hearing about haunted Matrix's with the problem of the headlights coming on, draining the battery when it was cold, but I don't remember it ever being a problem in the Vibe. That's odd because it should be the same parts. I think the fix for Matrix was to replace the headlight switch. The battery problem here is just that the OEM battery is small, and not adequate for very cold climates, the fix is a bigger battery.

Houston · Post by **Houston** » Wed Jan 28, 2004 5:50 am

When I contacted my dealer in December about the slow-cranking battery, the service manager said that some Vibes had defective headlight switches, that they would check mine and replace it if bad. It checked bad and a few days later when they got in the new switch they replaced the defective one. The battery stil cranks slow, though, so that wasn't my problem.The dealer has a list of numbers or dates that indicate bad switches and I recommend folks check with their dealers about this.

millster · Post by **millster** » Wed Jan 28, 2004 6:07 am

A quick update on my contact with the dealer. They're keeping the car overnight to do more testing. I guess that's good news. The best part is that the warranty is covering a loaner car and all I need to pay is the ~$1(US) to cover the tax. Let's hope this will be one success story with this issue.

millster · Post by **millster** » Wed Jan 28, 2004 7:52 am

One more quick update from me. They've already replaced the battery (it was leaking). They're keeping it overnight to check into the sticky starter. Looks like we do have one success story in the battery battle. Of course with mine having been leaking, I may have had an unfair advantage.

ragingfish · Post by **ragingfish** » Wed Jan 28, 2004 8:02 am

Did you double check to make sure the new one is a 560 and not another 330?

millster · Post by **millster** » Wed Jan 28, 2004 9:39 am

Quote, originally posted by ragingfish Â»Did you double check to make sure the new one is a 560 and not another 330?Didn't get a chance to at that time, I had to get my rental and get back to work, but I'll definitely do it when I go pick the car up tomorrow.

greenfire · Post by **greenfire** » Wed Jan 28, 2004 11:51 am

Quote, originally posted by joatmon Â»I remember hearing about haunted Matrix's with the problem of the headlights coming on, draining the battery when it was cold, but I don't remember it ever being a problem in the Vibe. That's odd because it should be the same parts. I think the fix for Matrix was to replace the headlight switch. The battery problem here is just that the OEM battery is small, and not adequate for very cold climates, the fix is a bigger battery. That haunted Matrix was me, as well as some others. I already mentioned that earlier in this thread. I really think you guys need to step back and investigate as to what is exactly causing the problem here. The problem on the Matrices was the headlight relay AND the switch. When temps droped below 20 the headlights would come on, with the car turned off. This destroyed my battery after draining it so many times. It may be possible that the same is happening here, but the lights may not be actually coming on, just gounding out the juice or something. GM should talk to Toyota and compare notes.For now if you want a new battery I would suspect the following must happen....#1) you car does not start.#2) you bring the car or battery to the dealer#3) They test it and determine that it doesnt hold a 100% charge= New battery.Again... just my obsevations.. I must say im impressed you got GM to respond to the issue thus far.

Post by **NSimkins** » Wed Jan 28, 2004 12:08 pm

Quote, originally posted by greenfire Â»That haunted Matrix was me, as well as some others.greenfire, I appreciate the additional info. I know I did read back when this this issue was a big problem for '03 Matrix owners on MO and MV and it's a real valid concern for our Vibes too. I've looked but do not remember seeing a case where this was documented happening on a Vibe (at least witnessed), but as you said it's quite possible it's happening but not showing a 'physical' indicator of it doing so (grounding out).In my case, I can see my car where it is parked all day during work and I did have a no-start problem after it was parked there during the 9-hr day of single digit temps this month. I did not notice the headlamps on, in my case.Quote Â»GM should talk to Toyota and compare notes.LOL, it was Toyota that tested and approved this new battery for the Vibes - Toyota apparently insisted there was NO problem whatsoever with these batteries, but alot of Vibe owners from Canada (Salsa! included) helped diagnose this issue with the Vibes. I also heard from Jeff Strausser, that they were having some issues with the Matrix at the plant up there during the real cold days. Regardless, I know most of us cold climate people are glad this is finally being addressed (hoping it's really the battery ). I would also assume all Matrix will be receiving this upgraded battery starting at the 2005 production run since the Vibe will be. As far as a TSB for the Matrix on this issue (not headlamp switch/relay related), I haven't heard of one.Quote Â»For now if you want a new battery I would suspect the following must happen....#1) you car does not start.#2) you bring the car or battery to the dealer#3) They test it and determine that it doesnt hold a 100% charge= New battery.That seems what most dealers have been doing, regardless of past "no start" problems, if the battery checks out OK, they won't do anything about it. In GM's case, I believe the verbage on this new replacement is if the battery checks out OK but the customer complains of no-start, very slow start, they will replace anyway. In that case, they are relying on the customer's word but that does seem, in millster's instance, that they would keep the vehicle overnight to replicate the issue to be sure. I'd assume many dealers would follow this overnight procedure. Just hope it's cold enough out..

millster · Post by **millster** » Wed Jan 28, 2004 12:13 pm

Quote, originally posted by NSimkins Â»In that case, they are relying on the customer's word but that does seem, in millster's instance, that they would keep the vehicle overnight to replicate the issue to be sure. Just hope it's cold enough out.. Oh, it will be cold enough in my case. Strangely, they already replaced my battery saying it was leaking. I never noticed that it was, but he showed me acid on the tie-down. Must have cracked fairly recently. Either way, he said they probably would have replaced it since 3** CCA is just too small for this climate. Now, they're holding it overnight to check the sticking starter.

greenfire · Post by **greenfire** » Wed Jan 28, 2004 12:25 pm

Quote, originally posted by NSimkins Â»LOL, it was Toyota that tested and approved this new battery for the Vibes - Toyota apparently insisted there was NO problem whatsoever with these batteries, But it is a GM Battery. Delphi is a subsidiary of GM that just went independent..

Post by **NSimkins** » Wed Jan 28, 2004 12:32 pm

Quote, originally posted by greenfire Â»But it is a GM Battery. Delphi is a subsidiary of GM that just went independent.Sorry for that, I meant that GM wasn't allowed to request/switch to the upgraded battery on the Vibe unless it went thru testing at Toyota in Japan.

greenfire · Post by **greenfire** » Wed Jan 28, 2004 12:41 pm

Ok, now I see your point. I just wanted to make sure you guys had all the Matrix details before everyone started to hassle GM. But I think you got it all down

Raven · Post by **Raven** » Wed Jan 28, 2004 1:53 pm

Quote, originally posted by Sunny Â»Called my Service Manager about an hour ago and the only thing he has heard about the battery issue is what I told him a month ago when I got my Conti's replaced under warranty. I'm going in tomorrow for a wheel alignment under warranty and he said he will know more then after he calls GM. I hope to kill two birds with one stone. I'll let ya'll know. Well i went to the dealer today and written on my work order was: Do not replace battery no TAC case VME is only in USA So I do not have a new battery and apparently no-one in Canada should either. Sounds like a load of BS to me. All other requested work including the alignment were done. The alignment was very good. The left front toe-in was out by 1/3 of a degree so did not contribute to the tire wear of the Conti's.

cool vibes · Post by **cool vibes** » Wed Jan 28, 2004 3:06 pm

I phoned Royal Pontiac today about the battery issue and asked if they had heard any news about a tsb put out on the vibes battery service rep left me on the phone hanging there for about 5 mins, then starts talking to someone else in the back ground over the phone about something else,turns around and says to me what a rude asssssssssssss. then i had to repeat myself again this time he talks to another service rep to see if he has heard any other customers complaints about hard starting,they said i told them theyshould check Genvibe to learn something.

joatmon · Post by **joatmon** » Wed Jan 28, 2004 10:44 pm

Based on my driving habits, my warranty will be up on Monday 2/2/2004. So, the speed this is developing at combined with the fact that I still don't have the problem means that I'm out of this. At some point I will need a new battery, but it won't come from GM. One reason why I may not have the problem could be that I have about a 130 mle daily round trip commute, so each day I have plenty of time to charge the battery up to full, to make up for any extra drain from cold starting. If I did need a new battery from GM under warranty right now, as many here do, I would go to the dealer, make them look up the PI on the tech assist system that Nick mentioned on the previous page, and basically force the dealer to address the issue. I believe Nick when he says that there is a PI in the system that dealers can access, just that nobody has yet forced a dealer to look it up.Where are the members who are GM service personnel? Lend a hand, you have access to resources that we don't. Help us out on this one.If this goes on, then maybe people should file formal complaints at places like NHTSA, (as nkaltso recommends in other threads). Then at least there would be public records to prove the dealership wrong that yes, people ARE complaining.Anyway, good luck, keep up the fight, I'm out of this one.

MJN2 · Post by **MJN2** » Thu Jan 29, 2004 12:11 am

Quote, originally posted by greenfire Â»I really think you guys need to step back and investigate as to what is exactly causing the problem here. This morning before I left to go to work, I performed a voltage check on my battery, prior to starting the car.It was -2Ã‚Â°F outside and the battery was at 12.36v. Tells me that nothing is draining the battery, it just doesn't have enough CCAs to turn the engine over properly in cold weather.

Sub-Vibe-R · Post by **Sub-Vibe-R** » Thu Jan 29, 2004 12:17 am

Quote, originally posted by Sunny Â» Do not replace battery no TAC case VME is only in USA That's total crap. People in state will be able to get their battery changed while us, up north, with colder and longer winter will not be eligible to have their battery changed... Complete non-sens for me.

millster · Post by **millster** » Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:45 am

Well, just picked up my Vibe. Unfortunately, I can't claim this as a victory in the battery battle since mine was apparently leaking around the top and the positive terminal. However, I do now have the 560CCA Delco under the hood. I guess that's good enough. As for the starter sticking, the '04 Vibe on the lot did the same thing so they said it's normal. Figures.

Houston · Post by **Houston** » Thu Jan 29, 2004 3:43 am

After expecting the battery TSB to come through before Christmas, and then expecting it shortly after Christmas and it's still not here, I went to Sears today and got a DieHard Gold. 640 CCA and man but does this baby crank now. For anybody interested... $95usd installed.That TSB may come through this afternoon. Maybe Next January. Maybe never. I decided to stop risking my girlfriend getting caught out in the cold one of these nights just because that lawnmower battery wouldn't start the Vibe.Sorry for letting you down. Our girlfriends, guys, are more than worth that $95. (Some of them are, anyway.)

Houston · Post by **Houston** » Thu Jan 29, 2004 4:31 am

Yeah, my head's hanging in shame. My Baby told me she wasn't getting into that car again until I got it "fixed," though, so what's a guy to do? Say "SeeYa?"

MJN2 · Post by **MJN2** » Thu Jan 29, 2004 4:36 am

Mine is going back to the dealer today after work. The service manager said she is going to call the tech line to inquire about the battery problem, so we'll see what happens.*crosses fingers*

kaybeejay · Post by **kaybeejay** » Thu Jan 29, 2004 8:54 am

Another reason I am glad that I live in California. What is this cold weather and hard starting that all of you are talking about? If you want a REAL solution, try these:http://www.optimabatteries.com/But its gonna cost you!

Houston · Post by **Houston** » Thu Jan 29, 2004 9:24 am

You guys way down there in southern California where temps don't change have it made. You cannot possibly identify with where us northern guys and gals are coming from. No way. That's it. Enjoy your tiny lawnmower battery in CA, 'cause it should serve you just fine.

kaybeejay · Post by **kaybeejay** » Thu Jan 29, 2004 9:29 am

San Leandro is in Norcal. We average temps of 60-70 degrees year round, whereas Socal averages about 70-90 degrees year round. The weather is fantastic, but it costs $500K for a decent house and we have the terminator for a govenor. All in all, I would much rather be here than anywhere else - never discount the beauty of mother nature!

pmh013 · Post by **pmh013** » Thu Jan 29, 2004 10:29 am

Quote, originally posted by joatmon Â»One reason why I may not have the problem could be that I have about a 130 mle daily round trip commute, so each day I have plenty of time to charge the battery up to full, to make up for any extra drain from cold starting. You know, joatmon, that's a very good point. I've had my car turn over a little bit more slowly since we hit the deep freeze (and this is a serious deep freeze, it's been -35 C (about -30 F) all week. But not anything like what everyone else is complaining about. My car spends the night in an insulated garage, where it only goes down to -12 C. I start it up, wait for the auto headlights to come on, then drive 6 blocks to the highway. I have a 105 km (50 mi) commute to work. When I get to work, I plug in the block heater, and my car sits there all day. Then, I start it up at 15 minutes to quitting time, unplug it, then drive it back the 105 km, back to it's relatively warm garage. Repeat Monday to Friday.I think if you're a serious commuter, you'll never find this problem, even in an extremely cold environment. Perhaps when I'm no longer a commuter, I might see this problem crop up, but by then my warranty will have only been a glimmer in my eye (my standard warranty expired in July).Something to think about.

Altus · Post by **Altus** » Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:51 pm

Optima's are of cource a fantastic solution.... but you can get the same design and save some money -- go with an Exide Orbital http://www.exide.com/products/....htmlIn Canada, you can get them through Canadian Tire, and (more likely) their new spinoff store - PartSource. Oh - and was at my dealer today for the oil/filter service, and they say they know nothing of a TSB for the Vibe batteries at all. Even had him look it up - nope.

St. Martin · Post by **St. Martin** » Thu Jan 29, 2004 10:55 pm

Got one!Dealer towed the car, replaced the battery all for free.Love the 36k warranty. GM made amends with me, its fine in my book.In the grand scheme of things, guys, its a battery. It's NOT the principle. GM can't issue a recall for however many thousands of vibe batteries because low percantage are failing. I'm just happy they replaced mine for free.To those of you that are out of warrany, cough up $60 and do the easiest repair to do on any auto. It's not a safety issue because the only apparent symptom is a no start. Deal with it. Go Panthers.

Raven · Post by **Raven** » Thu Jan 29, 2004 11:01 pm

It is the principle. My Continental tires were 30% worn at 3200 miles and I whined and waited and phoned and whined and got new tires for free. The battery on the Vibe is undersized and in cold weather areas it should be replaced. As for safety, are you telling me that a car not starting at 3:00am at -30F in the middle of nowhere is not a safety issue!!!!

kaybeejay · Post by **kaybeejay** » Fri Jan 30, 2004 2:21 am

Quote, originally posted by Sunny Â»It is the principle. My Continental tires were 30% worn at 3200 miles and I whined and waited and phoned and whined and got new tires for free. The battery on the Vibe is undersized and in cold weather areas it should be replaced. As for safety, are you telling me that a car not starting at 3:00am at -30F in the middle of nowhere is not a safety issue!!!!It's not going to cause you to crash and its not going to cause bodily injury to you. Therefore its not a safety issue.

Sub-Vibe-R · Post by **Sub-Vibe-R** » Fri Jan 30, 2004 4:00 am

GM will absolutly not make a recall on the battery, because it is not a safety issue. If there's a risk of fire, GM will make a recall.TSB exist for "possible toruble without safety issues".If the owner complain about something, the TSB tell how to fix it. IF no complain, they will not touch this part.

Sub-Vibe-R · Post by **Sub-Vibe-R** » Fri Jan 30, 2004 5:48 am

A miracle happend!!!I received a call from my dealer. The service manager told me they ordered a bran new 560 CCA battery for my Vibe.The only thing is this battery is back order!!!They are suppose to get it by Febuary 16th.As soon as the battery will be in, the service manager will call me to take an appointment and have it changed for free!

greenfire · Post by **greenfire** » Fri Jan 30, 2004 5:54 am

Quote, originally posted by St. Martin Â»Got one!Dealer towed the car, replaced the battery all for free.Love the 36k warranty. GM made amends with me, its fine in my book.Thats the ticket. .

VibeSalsa · Post by **VibeSalsa** » Fri Jan 30, 2004 7:17 am

You are very lucky Sub-Vibe-R!!!What did you do to have this replaced? Very lucky...I've just arrived from my dealer for an oil change. I talked about this dawn battery to the tech advisor, the service manager and the owner of my dealership.I'm a little bit frustated. They received my e-mail a few months ago (with Salsa!'s work order and pics of the new battery), never answered me but sent them to the District Manager. At this time, GM told my dealer to do nothing about that. Today, I asked many times the service manager to check in the system for a PI about the battery, like Nick said this week. After a while, he agreed and he checked and he found something. OH my God!!! This PI exists and it's me who inform him... But he cannot do nothing with this information. He have to do a lot of testing on the car and after that, he can ask to the Tachnical Assistance to know what to do. He thanked me to inform him about this... I also ask the owner of the dealership to help me about this issue. I told them that they didn't collaborate a lot on helping me... The more powerful thing to help each other is this site. Thanks GenVibe members! More to come in the next weeks... I hope....

SCTM · Post by **SCTM** » Fri Jan 30, 2004 7:43 am

Does anyone have a copy of this PI (preliminary information) that been sent to dealers?One more argument when will meet our dealer.

MJN2 · Post by **MJN2** » Fri Jan 30, 2004 8:17 am

A copy of that PI would be a nice thing, seeing as how my dealer's service dept. tech writer just called me a bit ago and said my car is fine and "it's supposed to start like that. Even my jeep starts like that in the cold." Then he spewed some BS about it being because the engine is "tight" or something. And then he went on to say that he started several new Vibes in the lot and they all started slow, but fine, AND that the tech helpline had no information about the battery problem.Unless we can somehow get a copy of that PI, I'm stuck until an official TSB is issued.

greenfire · Post by **greenfire** » Fri Jan 30, 2004 8:29 am

Has anyone actually asked the dealer to test their current battery??? My friends even if a TSB is issued dont plan on GM handing out new batteries to all Vibe owners. You will have to provide evidence that your car does not start or the battery is no good!! Just complaining about a tech bulletin is not going to document anything. (You guys must hate me by now, but someone has to play devils advocate) .

MJN2 · Post by **MJN2** » Fri Jan 30, 2004 8:43 am

My battery has been tested by the dealer. According to the tech, my car's battery is pushing even more than it is rated for. 346CCA I think is what I was told. Still starts like a piece of trash though. And it's had to be jumpstarted due to the cold once this winter already.Too bad we can't get into this site http://service.gm.com/index_en-US/si.html