The Battery Issue

FusionVGT · Post by **FusionVGT** » Sat Jan 10, 2004 11:02 am

I'll work on getting a picture up. The posts aren't reversed, but closer to the front of the battery. Separating the clip will give the extra length needed.

Houston · Post by **Houston** » Tue Jan 13, 2004 1:52 pm

So what's the latest on the battery TSB that was supposed to come out before Christmas? And then shortly after Christmas? I'm still waiting for the good word. Seems to me that the guy with connections who posted this and who said it was FOR SURE coming hasn't posted here in a long time.As that guy from Cheers used to say, "What's up with that?'

ragingfish · Post by **ragingfish** » Tue Jan 13, 2004 2:36 pm

Nick is not neglecting the issue. He's been hard at work and in contact with his connections at GM trying to find out what is going on.He's experienced the same troubles we all have with our batteries. He wants it fixed as much as we do.I'm guessing he hasn't posted recently because there's nothing new to report. And if Nick said FOR SURE that it was to be out before christmas (though I don't recall him saying FOR SURE it would be out) it was only because HE was told by GM that FOR SURE it would be out. So blame GM. Or Toyota. Or whoever the hell is holding the process up. But not him.I know you keep getting told this, but hang in there, the issue is being addressed behind the scenes. I'm confident he will update here when he has something new to tell us.

AKLGT · Post by **AKLGT** » Tue Jan 13, 2004 4:37 pm

this last saturday there was soldier who stopped to help a "disabled vehicle." he was trying to be a good samaritan and got hit by a car and died. he had a wife and 2 kids, only 23 yrs old. it could have been a vibe with a dead battery!

Stang2Vibe · Post by **Stang2Vibe** » Tue Jan 13, 2004 4:52 pm

Someone is definately dragging their feet with this issue. It's gonna be cold as balls outside for the next few days, the Weather Channel is saying that the high temp for much of the New England region will not reach 10 degrees. I hope that a WHOLE BUNCH of Vibes/Matrixes/Corollas have dead batteries from the cold, mine included. I'm paying over $29,000 this year in tuition so my car had damn well better get me to school in the cold and back home again. I have to park off campus right next to one of the worst areas of town and the university won't permit me to carry a gun on campus to defend myself. My g/f is storing her new RSX in my garage while she's at school, so my Vibe is outside all the time now. I'm just waiting for my battery to die, I'm gonna be one terrible SOB for the poor roadside assistance operator that answers when that sucker goes. Would be awesome if customer/roadside assistance got deluged in one day with about 5,000 dead battery calls all for the same model of a relatively new car. Let's see, the average dead battery roadside service call is about $75, multiply that by 5,000, and yup, GM/Toyota will be crying when they get THAT bill. Plus all the PO'd customers calling and complaining. Could have all been avoided over a year ago.I can see why Toyota would be reluctant to allow GM to replace the battery, since the Vibe is a sibling to the Matrix and both are based on the Corolla. I'd be willing to bet that the Celica and maybe even the Echo use the same battery, too. That accounts for a large number of cars owned by people who, when they get wind of the battery being replaced on another model, will want their battery repaced as well. Toyota has many more of these batteries currently in service out there than GM does. That puts a much larger financial burden on Toyota than GM would have.

Sputnik · Post by **Sputnik** » Tue Jan 13, 2004 8:14 pm

Its cold this morning - -29C with a -39 windchill. BRRR. I don't have to use the car until tonight, but by then the temp is only supposed to be -27. I hope it starts because I have an appointment to get to.

Raven · Post by **Raven** » Tue Jan 13, 2004 8:38 pm

-31.7 where I am and the Vibe started like a summers day. (plugged in though )

DavidPIL · Post by **DavidPIL** » Thu Jan 15, 2004 11:08 am

Hi silverawd, Yes, AutoZone carries those Optima batteries now though they only had one size. the 34 series. Had both Yellow and Red models.Dave

ragingfish · Post by **ragingfish** » Thu Jan 15, 2004 12:15 pm

No 35 series? ARRRGH!

SteveP · Post by **SteveP** » Thu Jan 15, 2004 9:17 pm

No problems @ -14C (7F) this morning after not running for a day and a half. Started like a champ. I had the same experience last week @ -13c.I dont have an engine heater.

pmh013 · Post by **pmh013** » Thu Jan 15, 2004 10:41 pm

Quote, originally posted by silverawd26 Â»All this is going to factor in on when somone bought their Vibe, how much do they drive, and when that TSB finally comes out. Unless you purchased an extended warranty, you should be all set then.I drive a lot, and have already learned from GM that they will not repair your car under a TSB unless you are under your standard 3 yr/60000 km/35000 mi warranty. I wanted the side panels replaced, so I waited until the revised TSB came out (because what's the sense in complaining if we know a revised TSB is coming out, right?). Well, the revised TSB didn't come out until after my regular warranty period had expired. And GM told me they would not "goodwill" the repair. If I had complained at 35,999 km under the "old" TSB, I would have been in good shape. How stupid.So basically, when it comes to this battery issue, I'm screwed for getting GM to replace it. I plug my car in when I think it's warranted, and I keep it in a garage at night, so I think I'm going my part. By the time the TSB comes out (by silverawd26's forecast), I will be over my extended warranty. My car will pass 100000 km in mid-March.Will I have needed a new battery by then anyway? Maybe, the car will be 3 years old then (having been manufactured in March 2002). But if the battery had been properly sized from the start, maybe not.I've decided I can't worry about it anymore. If my car leaves me stranded before March, I'll call roadside. In March, I'll get CAA to make sure I have roadside assistance. Then, I'll just wait & see how long this battery will really last.

Sub-Vibe-R · Post by **Sub-Vibe-R** » Thu Jan 15, 2004 10:52 pm

Last updateMy car refuse to start again yesterday.... The battery is dead, the little "eye" is totally black.I called GM roadside assiatance (2nd time this week).After being waiting for "the next available agent" for 45 mins, I hang on, took my gf car and borrow a battery charger.I remove the battery, take it into my home, let it heat 2 hours (it was really frozen) and plug it on the charger. I will put it back in my car tonight or tomorrow morning, when the temperature will be warmer.

pmh013 · Post by **pmh013** » Thu Jan 15, 2004 11:02 pm

Quote, originally posted by Salsa! Â»Instead of paying the big bucks annually for the CAA, why don't you just buy yourself a replacement battery right now....No more..."I hope it starts"!!Because I want roadside assistance anyway. I'm not getting CAA just in case my battery doesn't start, but because I drive through an area where the highway crews have their heads stuck up their asses.We're getting a freezing rain/snow storm. It's not a surprise, it was forecasted 2 days ago. Last night, they put the sander/snowplow away at 8 o'clock (I drove by as they were leaving). They were just getting on the highway at 7 am this morning. I drove through rain & slush & snow, and am probably lucky I didn't end up in the ditch. It's like this all the time. That's why I'm getting CAA.

Post by **NSimkins** » Fri Jan 16, 2004 12:43 am

UPDATEI've been told a Voicemail to GM dealers will be sent out Tuesday to all US GM dealerships regarding the battery. This will affect all Cold-Climate regions. Customer will complain of a no/slow/delayed crank during temperatures under 20F. If all normal diagnostics produce no visible problems, they are to replace the existing battery with the new production replacement part - a 565 CCA battery. This battery will be eventually phased in current production Vibes at the factory and will be standard on all '05 models. Dealers will have to use a special code for reimbursement (provided to them in the Voicemail). A final TSB will be sent out later down the line - this voicemail is to address immediate concerns of owners due to the cold weather starting problems.Regarding Canadian owners, the voicemail will be forwarded (on Tues.) to the Canadian Quality Manager and should be handled in the same way - however it was under my impression this may not happen immediately on Tuesday as they have to follow their own procedures for this replacement separately from GM-US. GM Canada is aware of the severity of this problem and will react as the US group will on Tuesday. I will aim to get another update the end of next week to find out how the progress may be going in regards to the Canadian replacement.

joatmon · Post by **joatmon** » Fri Jan 16, 2004 12:48 am

So, what is a "Cold-Climate" region? or, put another way, do you know if there is any specific definition of coverage areas?

pmh013 · Post by **pmh013** » Fri Jan 16, 2004 12:49 am

Yay for those that still have warranty left!

Sub-Vibe-R · Post by **Sub-Vibe-R** » Fri Jan 16, 2004 12:54 am

Hourra!!!!!Finally my Vibe will ressurect!!!

Houston · Post by **Houston** » Fri Jan 16, 2004 4:00 am

Great work! I just emailed my dealer's service department to let them know this is coming and to register with another complaint about this lawn mower battery. My Vibe is in the garage here at home and even then cranked real slow this morning. I'm afraid to take it anywhere at night when it's cold for fear it won't start when it comes time to return home. The Grand Prix is my car of choice right now.Looks like our problem will soon be cleared up.

Raven · Post by **Raven** » Fri Jan 16, 2004 7:59 am

My Vibe is 4 months old and has started well, even at -32c. I think I'll wait until my car is older and the battery used up to replace the battery. I assume the replacement will not be a time limited offer.

greenfire · Post by **greenfire** » Fri Jan 16, 2004 10:54 am

Hmmmm I wonder if this condition is caused by something drawing power from the battery during cold weather. The first batch of Matrixs off the line had a problem with the headlight relays coming on when the temps were below 20 deg F... This resulted in weak/dead batteries. I had this problem with my car and the battery plus headlight relays had to be replaced. I doubt this is the same problem, but maybe its something similar going on in the Vibes. Might be something worth looking into for GM.

ragingfish · Post by **ragingfish** » Fri Jan 16, 2004 12:11 pm

Nick:Is what pmh says true? If we're beyond the 3/36 period, are we SOL?Please find out from the top of the ladder! If I'm SOL, I've been waiting around for NOTHING!

pmh013 · Post by **pmh013** » Sat Jan 17, 2004 5:00 am

ragingfish, my DSM (District Service Manager) refused to replace my cladding because I was beyond the original warranty period. Nick checked with his contacts within GM, and got the same story, unless your extended warranty covers it, you're SOL.I have what is called GMPP Total Plus http://www.gmcanada.com/englis....html . It doesn't cover "body work" so GM wouldn't replace my body panels. I can't find the battery listed in the neither the "covered" nor the "not covered" lists, so I don't know. I'm guessing that the battery is considered one of those "disposable" parts, so it wouldn't be covered.I thought I'd covered my (removed) by making a couple of complaints to the dealership, but they were too lazy to write them down, so I don't think my complaints were officially logged into the system. So, as you so eloquently put it, we're SOL. Sunny, it appears this is a limited time offer -- limited to your basic warranty period.

ragingfish · Post by **ragingfish** » Sat Jan 17, 2004 5:11 am

I have the 100 000 mile extended warranty. but still, this is abusrd! so, they admit, they screwed up, but because it took them so long to admit it, they won't fix it? That's wayyyyyyy messed up...I have GMPP MajorGuard 60/100000...http://www.gmprotectionplan.com/majorguard.cgiMine says batteries and body panels are not covered. Grr.

pmh013 · Post by **pmh013** » Sat Jan 17, 2004 5:20 am

Check your warranty documentation. If it doesn't specifically cover the battery, you might need to get *special consideration* to get it replaced, even though the TSB took so long.I think if your warranty does/did cover batteries, and you made a complaint to the dealership prior to the TSB being released, yet were still covered by the warranty, you should have your battery replaced. But then again, I think everyone should be treated fairly, so most of the time I'm pissed off at the world.

Houston · Post by **Houston** » Mon Jan 19, 2004 2:05 pm

It's Tuesday, January 20. 2004! This is the BIG DAY! We've been told by somebody communicating with GM big shots that Voicemails WILL TODAY BE SENT to GM dealers informing them that they have to replace batteries for those of us who live in cold climates. The service department at my dealership told me that they would contact me as soon as this email shows up. By the way, they have not ever ever ever received via Voicemail a notice of this kind. Not ever. ever, ever. Get my drift?Now that it's three weeks beyond the time dealers were supposed to have been notified about replacing these tiny batteries, I'm about to give up. I worked at GM for 33 years. Trust me... the word of those official GM folks (pardon me) don't mean ****.Hope I'm wrong, but if it don't happen today... sorry... I'm right.

SCTM · Post by **SCTM** » Tue Jan 20, 2004 9:17 am

Hope that this "Voicemail" also reach Canadian GM Dealers

ragingfish · Post by **ragingfish** » Tue Jan 20, 2004 2:34 pm

I hear ya man, I'm rapidly losing time...I'm less than 1000 miles from 30000...and apparantly, 30000 is the cutoff for TSBS...so I won't end up getting my cladding replaced, and now, I'm gonna lose out on my battery, and my TS sensor. very mad.

Houston · Post by **Houston** » Tue Jan 20, 2004 3:08 pm

Tuesday, January 20, 2004 has come and gone. Supposedly all GM dealers were notified yesterday about replacing these teensy batteries that came in our Vibes. Does anybody know of even one single dealer being notified? Anybody? Somebody??That's what I thought.Sorry 'bout that.

AKLGT · Post by **AKLGT** » Tue Jan 20, 2004 4:31 pm

ok, so when i complained last, the dealership didn't even write it up! so, i guess i will continue to call and complain!

joatmon · Post by **joatmon** » Wed Jan 21, 2004 4:40 am

I called a couple of service departments this afternoon and none had heard anything about the problem or received any guidance from GM. However, I'm in Maryland, which may not meet the "cold climate" area test. my battery has been fine so it was not something I deperately needed to get replaced, just checking it out for curiosity's sake.

Sub-Vibe-R · Post by **Sub-Vibe-R** » Wed Jan 21, 2004 5:04 am

I will give a chance to my dealer and wait until next monday.Then I will call them and ask about this "possible tsb out since jan 21st"

Post by **NSimkins** » Wed Jan 21, 2004 6:05 am

Quote, originally posted by Sub-Vibe-R Â»Then I will call them and ask about this "possible tsb out since jan 21st"I wouldn't call it a TSB, because it has not yet been released as one yet. The Jan. 20th 'memorandum' was released as a GM Voicemail (which is distributed to GM dealers) via phone/electronically at this time. They did it this way because it was the quickest possible route to let dealers know of the issue and the resolution until a TSB can be approved and distributed.I'm not sure how it is done, but each dealer may obtain and inform their staff of these voicemails differently, hence why some seem clueless of this technique. It may be best to go thru the Service Manager to inquire about this.To All: I'm only relaying this information to GenVibe, I didn't write it. You're free to have what beef you desire with GM. From my point of view, I can tell GM is doing what is right and in the best way possible to address this particular issue, be it late, but if you've read any of my previous posts on this throughout the past year, you will know what circumstances come along with having a joint-venture vehicle. It's all about $$ and corporate regulations, etc.. blah, blah, blah. I'll be contacting my dealer sometime this week to inquire as well - I'd like to hear any other info from others and if their dealer has 'heard' of this as well.

joatmon · Post by **joatmon** » Wed Jan 21, 2004 8:12 am

Quote, originally posted by NSimkins Â»To All: I'm only relaying this information to GenVibe, I didn't write it. Nick, we all appreciate very much the relationship you have grown with Pontiac for our sake. I have no doubt that if it hadn't been for you, the battery would be something that Pontiac wouldn't address at all. I'm not hearing anyting about Toyota offering a similar fix for the Matrix crowd. so, thanks again and always for the great support.

Houston · Post by **Houston** » Wed Jan 21, 2004 8:41 am

Quote, originally posted by NSimkins Â»To All: I'm only relaying this information to GenVibe, I didn't write it. You're free to have what beef you desire with GM... It's all about $$ and corporate regulations, etc.. blah, blah, blah. Guess it looks like I'm coming down on you, my friend, and for this I apologize. I'm just pi**ed that GM has gotten away with this for so long. Like you say, it's about $$, rather than about doing the right thing.My service department hasn't heard a thing - so they say, anyway - so when you know the official TSB is in their hands, please let us know, 'cause the feathers are gonna fly down there until that new battery is installed.Thanks.

red · Post by **red** » Thu Jan 22, 2004 6:14 am

inquired at my local dealership- Aurora Mtrs and the service manager had not heard anything and if he did that he couldnt get any batteries to replace it with. also that the battery has to completely fail and give a code and that gm isnt warranting the battery AND that Kias have the same problem and that the dealership IS REPLACING the batteries in those vehicles BEFORE they are sold......basically i'm SOL in getting a replacement since the battery wont die just drag so much that it will not turn the car over after sitting outside for a couple of hours at 0* or below. Choices, choices....to extensively use pontiac 1-800 call/tow me or just to say to h*ll with it and get a new battery!!!!

etoop · Post by **etoop** » Thu Jan 22, 2004 6:25 am

This morning after my car had been sitting out all night, outside, in -10 F temps with -31 F windchill. It just about didn't turn over....it did thankfully.But next week we are suppose to get worse temps (lower than -10 F) for like a good 5 days I need that battery

AKLGT · Post by **AKLGT** » Thu Jan 22, 2004 4:22 pm

Quote, originally posted by red Â»inquired at my local dealership- Aurora Mtrs and the service manager had not heard anything and if he did that he couldnt get any batteries to replace it with. also that the battery has to completely fail and give a code and that gm isnt warranting the battery AND that Kias have the same problem and that the dealership IS REPLACING the batteries in those vehicles BEFORE they are sold......basically i'm SOL in getting a replacement since the battery wont die just drag so much that it will not turn the car over after sitting outside for a couple of hours at 0* or below. Choices, choices....to extensively use pontiac 1-800 call/tow me or just to say to h*ll with it and get a new battery!!!!what? that's complete bogus! if they know the battery issue is similar to the kia's and they swap those out, then why the hell won't they swap yours! my battery starts most of the time, just takes awhile to get up... and you are in much colder climates than here of course! i'm half tempted to let the car sit for a week w/o driving in subzero temps, with all my amps, radios, etc on full force just so the damn thing doesn't start!

woodturner529 · Post by **woodturner529** » Sun Jan 25, 2004 3:54 am

Am currently shopping for Vibe. This board has really opened my eyes to the fact that American auto manufacturers completely miss out on the opportunity to create repeat customers because of their pride. My family currently has a Honda, Toyota, and Subaru, none of which has required a return to the dealer for manufacturing/engineering defects. Only one of the three vehicles has had a TSB, which was fixed without complaint or hesitation.I have been considering a base Vibe primarily because of the connection with Toyota. But it appears that poor service, poor quality, and a failure to properly communicate with its customers continues to dog American manufacturers.Given all the issues people are having with the battery, clutch, cladding, and a host of other issues, is this vehicle worth spending my hard earned money on?

ragingfish · Post by **ragingfish** » Sun Jan 25, 2004 4:49 am

Keep in mind that 2003 was the first model year for the car. EVERY car has some bugs to work out in it's first model year. Honda, Toyota, adn the such, as far as I remember, haven't released too many new models in the past years, aside from the Matrix, which is the same car. That is probably why you haven't been in for TSBs. Most issues are worked out in the first 2-3 years of the model life...after that, tends to be smooth sailing.As to the issues:Battery -- they will be replacing the batteries, it's just a question of when. 2005 models will have the proper battery from the factory.Clutch - have an auto, can't say much about that.Cladding - it was simply an oversight. They never suspected that kinda damage would occurr. Only affects 03 two-tone models. 04s have the proper cladding.I can't tell you what to spend your money on, but those issues certainly don't make me consider the Vibe as a risk...I love the car, if I could do it over, i'd probably get one again.

red · Post by **red** » Sun Jan 25, 2004 1:45 pm

well not every car is perfect! lets see here: the sub wrx is having clutch problems and ,for awhile, severe strut issues were rearing its ugly head on some models , toyota had an issue with denying thousands of loyal owners fixes when their 4 cylinder engines died due to excessive sludge and is known to be reluctant to address problem issues (read this in a toyota forum), honda has some bad paint issues that even showed up on a test car for a car magizine where the paint finish was noticed to have extreme orange peel and poor color matching between the main body and attached parts. M-B is having numerous electrical gremlins as are some BMW's........so i guess that my car isnt perfect but darn if pontiac didnt fix my cladding issue and are AT LEAST admitting that there is an issue with the batteries.....i guess i'd rather own a car from a company that recognizes it has faults and tries to correct them than one that is too proud to.

Thewolf · Post by **Thewolf** » Sun Jan 25, 2004 1:56 pm

Heh, don't forget the Vibe is basically a Toyota...

ragingfish · Post by **ragingfish** » Sun Jan 25, 2004 1:59 pm

That's also part of the problem.The Vibe being a joint GM/Toyota project, GM can't issue TSBs or make any real changes wtihout Toyota agreeing.Hence, the reason this TSB may be taking so damn long...

Houston · Post by **Houston** » Sun Jan 25, 2004 2:44 pm

Both General Motors and Toyota drag feet here, you know, because for every single day they hold out there are that many more batteries they don't have to replace. Hear what I'm saying?Come on, Nick, show us your stuff. 'cause I want it now.

greenfire · Post by **greenfire** » Mon Jan 26, 2004 2:02 am

So how many people have actually had thier car not start because of a bad battery???? I dont see what the big deal is. GM/Toyota is not going take immediate action over a few cars. Most people don't have a problem with their battery. I dont see Vibes getting stranded all over because of bad batteries. Furthmore... even with a TSB GM/Toy will not even do anything unless they can duplicate the condition on the vehicle or you provide proof your car would not start. I own several vehicles and when the temperature is very cold.. it is a slow crank! Now if you car doesn't start, then you have an issue, call the dealer, tell them your car will not start and demand action. Well thats my .02 Take it or leave it

Sub-Vibe-R · Post by **Sub-Vibe-R** » Mon Jan 26, 2004 2:15 am

My Vibe refuse to start twice within 6 days by the fault of this crappy battery.In the cold climate we have here, we need at leas a 500 CCA battery. 310 is by far no enough.

Post by **NSimkins** » Mon Jan 26, 2004 2:25 am

My Vibe refused to start one time this winter, and other times it turned over so slow it made a grinding noise not normally heard during starting. This winter, with the extreme cold over much of the US and Canada, has been interesting to say the least.I know Houston, joatmon and red stated they called their dealer last week sometime and was told they were not aware of any document related to this issue. Is this still true for those 3 and anyone else that may have called or gone in on this since last Tuesday?I find it interesting to read that some service depts. don't know anything about this supposed Voicemail system. My local dealers (at least some) do receive these and I have read some online that were published a bit ago by NHTSA.In regards to the faulty light staulk on the Matrix, from what I have gathered, this wasn't an issue with the Vibe during that time period.Please keep your updates here and I will keep mine coming as they get to me.

joatmon · Post by **joatmon** » Mon Jan 26, 2004 5:48 am

Quote, originally posted by NSimkins Â» Is this still true for those 3 and anyone else that may have called or gone in on this since last Tuesday?I called three dealers today, two of them said they actually double checked while I was on the phone, but none of them had heard anything about the problem or about any service info from GM related to Vibe batteries. All three acknowledged they were aware of the GM voicemail info system though. However, I am a lot farther south from the majority of those that have the problem, maybe my area is not covered.Since Mavrik works at a dealer in Canada, maybe we can recruit him to really dig in to it up there, since so many from canada are having battery problems. Any other GM service people members are also more than welcome to see what they can find out too. Since DonB's dealer got the word, it seems like some sort of guidance did in fact get distributed to some US dealers anyway. Anybody else ask their dealer about it recently?

SCTM · Post by **SCTM** » Mon Jan 26, 2004 11:22 pm

Just called once more 1-800GM inquiring if there's any recall, TSB, or voicemail concerning that battery issue. Absolutly NOTHING on that. Same thing for the "cladding". But when i mentionned the TSB 02-08-111-005A, the clerk said that it was only the "how to fix" and not an automatic replacement of molding for customers !!! Turning sick about it

Houston · Post by **Houston** » Mon Jan 26, 2004 11:59 pm

I emailed my dealer yesterday. Here is the response:Jerry,Looked for bulletins and preliminary bulletins again this morning. There is still nothing showing. As I had mentioned before, I have no idea what the board is talking about with voice mail. GM does not communicate with us through any voice mail. All technical bulletins and/or recalls are now done through the web access system.

Post by **NSimkins** » Tue Jan 27, 2004 12:19 am

Quote, originally posted by Houston Â»Looked for bulletins and preliminary bulletins again this morning. There is still nothing showing. He is accurate there, because there is yet no Bulletin released for the battery. I'm not sure why they are not aware of the voicemail system that other dealers seem to know about. I will investigate.