New hydrogen source for cars

[pmh013]

I thought this was neat! http://www.cbc.ca/stories/2004...40119

[Stang2Vibe]

Holy crap, that's amazing! Buy stock in aluminum manufacturers now, they may be the "oil companies" of the future!And imagine that--a guy who didn't complete high school beat out some of the world's best chemists and physicists to produce hydrogen fuel cheaply. I should start saving up my soda cans now.

[ragingfish]

Awesome!I'm very eager to see alternative fuel vehicles come to market...I hope once they become affordable and reliable, we will start to see the effects of global warming disappear...

[Stang2Vibe]

Quote, originally posted by ragingfish »we will start to see the effects of global warming disappear...It's not freezing a$$ cold in NJ, Mike?Global warming is still only a theory that is entirely based on flawed computer models. I was listening to another radio talk show last night that had an expert on the environment and, particularly, the ice ages. He stated that by studying core samples from central Greenland, the average temperature of planet Earth was warmer before the last ice age than it is now. He was also talking about how global average temperature, including average ocean temperatures are actually currently decreasing. He firmly believes that given his experiences, background, and knowledge on the subject, that we are very near to entering the next ice age and that it may officially begin in 2008 or 2009, based on his data and analysis. Ice ages occured without fail about every 180,000 years as was determined by core drilling and we are currently about 180,000 years from the last ice age. He also stated not to worry very much because much of the earth's landmass is still habitable during an ice age, but Canada will be kinda screwed because it will be under about 2 miles of ice. The only thing that would really mess up the planet is if it experienced a polar shift (the north and south poles would relocate to other, but still opposite parts of the planet), which would cause major climatic changes to the Earth's landmass. I'm not about to go building my greenhouse yet, but I will certainly be watching this issue more closely. Oh, one more thing. He mentioned that an ice age lasts for about 5,000 years, so don't plan on riding it out.

[joatmon]

Hydrogen cars would be neat. Regardless of the impact on the global environment, you wouldn't have to make sure you ran your car in a ventilated area, You could use hydrogen to make 100% efficient home furnaces, all the heat energy transferred to the interior, Hydrogen cars would probably also help reduce summertime smog in some cities too. been too long since I had chemistry. Sodium Hydroxide + water + Aluminum -> Hydrogen, sodium hydroxide and some sort of aluminum oxide? What do you do with the aluminum oxide that's left over?

[drunkenmaxx]

we used to make hydrogen in chemistry class when i was in highschool. pretty fun lab. to test for hydrogen, we got to light a big stick and place it at the mouth of the upside down bottle. obviously, when it was positive, a big flame would shoot out and you would hear a sort of whistle. we used aluminum and some sort of acid that i forgot. (had advanced chem when i was a soph.)

[Stang2Vibe]

Quote, originally posted by joatmon »been too long since I had chemistry. Sodium Hydroxide + water + Aluminum -> Hydrogen, sodium hydroxide and some sort of aluminum oxide? What do you do with the aluminum oxide that's left over?Make lots of sunscreen? Interesting how this chemical reaction works out. Initial reports of using hydrogen to fuel cars stated that the only byproducts of the reaction would be O2 and pure water. Looks like the process is getting switched around here? And could some other common inexpensive metal(s) be used as a catalyst in the reaction? Using hydrogen will only gain widespread acceptance over oil if it provides an economic advantage (i.e.--is cheaper to produce/use than oil). It's been 9 years since I've had chemistry, so I won't be of much use in figuring out these reactions without detailed references.My other question is do we have enough aluminum redily available at a cheap price to fuel the world's transportation and meet energy needs should it be used for making hydrogen-powered energy? Aluminum is a non-renewable resource as well so it would only be a matter of time before we were faced with a similar problem again. Seems strange, but I can forsee the future structuring of "aluminum cartels" to set the prices of aluminum.And how long will it take for there to be an aftermarket for performance parts for hydrogen-fueled engines in cars? We will surely be force-fed moderately powered vehicles in the mass market again. I want the 400+ HP hydrogen engine in my car. I'd still definately miss the throaty growl of the exhaust note of a big block V8 American car!And imagine the incredible devistation that could potentially be caused by a "misfire" condition in a hydrogen engine! KA-BOOOOOOM!!! There goes a city block! There is still a lot to work out before this can become a reality.

[joatmon]

I think water is still the main byproduct of the hydrogen combustion. H2 and O2 are the products of separating water to get Hydrogen (hydrolysis?) Hopefully industry won't pick one single way to generate hydrogen.Gotta figure anything with enough explosive potential to be used to power cars is dangerous. At least hydrogen is lighter than air, so it won't collect like natural gas/propane that makes houses explode, and if a tanker flips off the overpass, ruptures and catches fire, the fuel will go up, unlike the gasoline tanker in baltimore last week that burned a hole in the interstate.There is a lot to work out, it will be a while for sure. How about fuel cells that convert hydrogen into electricity? Electric motors can really put out the torque!

[Stang2Vibe]

Quote, originally posted by joatmon »How about fuel cells that convert hydrogen into electricity? Electric motors can really put out the torque!Interesting concept that may have some great applications, but I don't know about in cars. Don't the electric motors that power cars still have to have lots of tightly wound copper wire? To make more power, you need more wire which means more weight. To convert hydrogen energy into electricty to power the car just adds another process and would be like having 2 engines in the car. That just doesn't seem efficient. Wouldn't it still be better just to have one "hydrogen engine" in the car? Would save a lot of weight which would make the car easier to propel. Also, energy (power) would be lost in every process that it must pass through, so we would have to use even more hydrogen to acheive the same result.Besides, these little 25HP electric motors in cars will just never cut it for me. I'd be fixing up old gas junkyard cars and trying to make my own gasoline if I had no other choice than the severely underpowered current electric cars.Also, if a tanker full of hydrogen were to be ignited, wouldn't it instantly explode? Hydrogen is extremely volitile. The Hindenberg was an outstanding example.

[drunkenmaxx]

i've always wondered, what is so chemically complicated about gasoline that noone has made a synthetic yet?

[joatmon]

I thought the hindenburg caught fire, crashed and burned. Don't remember it exploding, but I was pretty young at the time. Maybe they have figured out a way to synthesize gasoline, but it's no good if it takes too much energy or is too costly to do it. Whatever technology is coming, it will be pretty awesome. Just look at what the last 20 years have brought about.

[Stang2Vibe]

It is commonly asserted that the Hindenberg ignited because of either static electricity from the guide ropes being used by the ground crew and atmospheric conditions at the time of the landing or from a lightning strike. It was landing during the onset of a storm. In either case, the whole airship ignited at once, sending most of the fireball upward. If you see the film footage of the accident, you just see a blinding fireball then the skin of the airship and some of the flammable parts of the frame slowly burn away, but the hydrogen all burned up in an instant. If the hydrogen were contained in a rigid container, I'm almost absolutely positive that there would have been a devistating explosion rather than just the instant burning off of a massive amount of flammable gas. Some people on board survived and jumped out as it burned.Hydrogen is extremely flammable and quite volitile. I suppose that it could be stabilized by converting it into a chemical compound that is stabile under normal conditions but can be easily converted into pure hydrogen inside the engine of the car just before it is burned. They're probably already experimenting with that now. If you pressurize hydrogen enough, it will liquify, but I think that it will still be just as volitile as in a gaseous state.

[drunkenmaxx]

i may be saying this wrong, but here i go:hydrogen initiates combustion, but doesn't support it. that, perhaps, is why it doesn't explode.

[Stang2Vibe]

Then why is it so extremely flammable and volitile?