My experience with warranty issues and a dealer

[denverguy81]

I have a 2003 Vibe that I've had for about a year and a half now. Several little issues have been adding up and I decided to take it into the Red Holman dealership in Westland, MI to get these resolved. When I took the car in, it had about 34,000 miles on it.The problems I had were:* Weather-stripping on the drivers side window was coming off.* CD player rattled with brakes were applied.* Three of the four door windows rattle (and feel loose) when they are rolled partially down.* Rattles from the dash area.They sent out the radio for repairs and several days later, it came back, with the problem resolved. They had to order new weather stripping and, a few days later, it arrived - so they installed it and it's as good as new.They claimed they fixed the rattle, however, when I took the car back home, it was still there... and another new rattle appeared!When I asked them about the windows, the technician I was dealing with said they really couldn't fix that because it's "the way the car was designed".They can't fix it because that's the way the car was designed? That sounds like a pretty lame excuse if you ask me.What do you suggest I do? Do you think this was just a lazy service department who didn't want to do the work? Should I call Pontiac/GM customer service to discuss this? I know for sure that I'd rather not deal with Red Holman again because the overall experience was not a pleasurable one (getting the run around isn't fun).

[denverguy81]

Oh yeah, I forgot two other things I took the car in for...* When I press the cluch down, the pedal squeeks.* When shifting from neutral to first gear while the car is parked on a cold morning, I can hear a humming noise when I release the clutch after shifting into first.Those weren't fixed, either.

[Reynoma]

Quote, originally posted by denverguy81 »* When I press the cluch down, the pedal squeeks.Those weren't fixed, either. My GT did that for a little while, but then it just stopped.

[pmh013]

Quote, originally posted by denverguy81 »When I asked them about the windows, the technician I was dealing with said they really couldn't fix that because it's "the way the car was designed".I am so sick of hearing that (removed) & bull story about "that's the way the car's designed." I swear, do these tech's think we were born yesterday? Everytime I see that phrase, it makes my blood boil.Go back to the dealer, DEMAND to speak to the service manager and INFORM him (or her) in no uncertain terms that they've misrepresented the car. Unless the salesman specified to you at the time of sale that the windows would rattle when they're half-down, you've been lied to.Presumably, you'll get a shoulder shrug from the dealership. Inform them that you'll be contacting GM due to the shoddy service, as you're instructed to in the back of you owner's manual. Now, phone the customer complaint line and go through them like a Japanese bullet train.Honestly, there are some people that need to be beaten about the head and ears with a cast iron frying pan, and it appears that most service techs with GM fit the bill. I should really stop reading the P&WI postings, because it just causes me to be reminded of my own service fiasco with GM (I hate to keep bringing this up, but there are a lot of new members here http://forums.genvibe.com/zerothread?id=2894 ).

[denverguy81]

My god that's a huge thread you linked to! I could only read the first page or so because it was so long. I'm sorry to hear of your trouble, but I hope it has been resolved.I think I'll be calling GM about this because I really don't enjoy having these windows rattle when they're down every time I hit a bump. I fear if it's not fixed, they'll just fall through the door!And if I'm not mistaken, in the back of the Vibe's manual where it's talking about the warranty it says something like "If your vehicle is required to stay overnight at the service shop, you will be given a loaner car". Well, if I end up taking it in again, I'm going to make sure I get a loaner. There's no way I'm relying on other people to drive me to where I need to go.

[pmh013]

Ya, it's a 10-pager. Basically, the last few pages are the juicy parts.The short story is, my car ran like crap. Spontaneously downshifted on the highway. Flat highway. I got 2 months of "that's the way the car's designed" after I endured 3 months of ordering-in and replacing various parts. Only after I called Transport Canada (our version of NHTSA) and reported my car as having a safety defect did I get a response out of GM.I don't think a rattely (is that a word?) window warrants that sort of action, but at least talking to management at the dealership is somewhere to start.

[stkos79]

sorry that i must ventbut as gm tech and im sure most shop are the sameyou get a r.o and its got 10 lines of all warrentyjobs on it , you think this guys nutsso if you spend 4 hrs on it checking all the concernsand do not find any problems u dont get paid anything for that jobthe best way to compare a problem is compare it to a new unit.if the new unit will do it, theres nothing we as a tech can dowe can put in a report to enginering and hope they change itmost npf(no problem founds) we suggest the service writerto road test with the customers. 80% of the issuesthe customer can get the problem to happen,,if there any techs on the genvibe lets hear from ya

[Mavrik]

I'm not a tech but I am a service advisor and I understand the frustrations from both sides. The customer concerns and the tech's real difficulties at times to find and correct the problems can be quite... interesting.Take for instance (and I do make some of this up) a rattle heard in the dash of the car only intermit while driving 60km down the road while increasing speed and rising accelloration. You gotta be going north west with a south east wind while having your tongue hanging out of the corner of your mouth. The tech assigned to the job will not drive the car exactly like you do and its very possible he will not hear the noise for simple reasons he is accellorating faster, or slower then you through that 60km speed. He has GM manuals, GM info net on the computer with technical files he can search through for simular concerns were techs have posted possible fixes for said possible concern.GM pays the tech for warranty work but it is low at best, not as much as the tech would make at CP (Customer pay) Spending hours trying to find an intermit rattle very often results in him getting paid .5 for a Concern Not Duplicated while having actually spent 4 hours on that job. Now to the tech that is now how you pay the bills. Often times a tech will have to call GM tech support and can often be told "We have not found a fix for that yet and will build a case for it." Or sometimes GM will directly tell us "That is how the vehicle is designed and we will not pay you to try and correct the problem for it can not be corrected."We do not have crystal balls to know exactly right away what is wrong with your car and for being on the job for 4 hours trying to fix that rattle does not mean the tech just stood around. These new cars are very complex and will continue to become more so. Its a very tricky road to walk. On one hand GM wants you to do as little warranty work as you can for it really is not profitable but at the same time if you refuse or say "thats how its built" GM will not back us up. If the tech tells me GM says there is no known fix at the moment and I tell you that... and you then go call GM and tell them what I told you, they will take your side.There are problems out there, and rattles and such can be annoying. But if a window is rattling when half way down due to the fact that the regulator has a certain amount of weight on it and while the window is in that position the weatherstrips are not completely pressed against the glass resulting in a rattle... and its just how the car was build, what can a tech do? He can not change the design of your car.But that does not mean all places are doing their best for you. Sometimes its the service advisors fault in how he writes up the work order. He can write the RO with "Customer reports there is a rattle from the windows." Now to the tech that means a lot of testing. As a customer its best to offer as much information as you can, maybe even write things down. A good service advisor will ask you as much as he can, getting as much information as he can so the RO would say instead "Customer reports there is a rattle from both rear windows when they are rolled down part way and the vehicle is traveling approx 60km an hour on a smooth highway." He could even get information from you on is it a damp or dry day. You'd be surprised at how much every little bit of information can help.I find it is hard to correct concerns when the one experiencing them is not the one bringing in the car. (Q)"You have a rattle from your windows sir?"(A)"No idea... its my wife's car, she drives it."Unfortunatly for both the customer and the tech assigned to your car, problems might have to be fixed on a trial by error method. GM tells us, "try this and see what happens, if the concern is still there then try this..." and so on. Sometimes it requires your car to come back several times and there actually are "Believe it or not" concerns directly related to vehicle design. I had a customer complain his windows on his 2003 sunfire shifted forward an inch when lowered part way... he was not happy that it was a design flaw when I showed him that the 2003 sunfire in the showroom did the exact same thing.From my position I see both sides of this problem and it can at times be out of our hands as a dealership to fix your car due to a GM issue. Call GM, get on their case but be nice to your dealership... (unless they really are being a_ _ holes, in which case yeah get them in trouble because they don't respect you as a customer) Its not your dealership's fault that some well paid designer overlooked something which now causes a rattle in your car. Its not a pass the blame game but sometimes its not the tech's fault.Hopefully I haven't upset anyone with my remarks and you can very well be having a problem with your dealership. But I hope maybe this opens your eyes as well and helps you on your next claim. You could very well be complaining about very valid concerns, but every dealership comes across those whiners that well... you get the ideas. Some places really do refuse to help you out as much as they can and will even refuse to warranty anything on your car due to the fact that you bought it some place else. Thankfully those dealerships are not to common because they give us a very bad name. One bad apple you know?As a real concern I came across on a fellow's 2003 Vibe GT was that the cruise control would not remember former settings once the vehicle had come to a stop and then returned to cruising speeds. If you tapped the brakes to slow down and then hit resume then it would. But if the vehicle came to a complete stop it would not resume. We replaced the cruise switch and tried several things and had it in a few times (Vibe had just come out so information was limited) Turns out after he was in for the forth time, GM informs us (and with a test drive of another GT to confirm it) all Vibe cruise control units do that... design... he didn't like it but what can we do?

[pmh013]

stkos79 & Mavrik,While I can understand your frustrations, I think you're missing the point of this post.denverguy81 took his car in for 6 problems:Quote »1. Weather-stripping on the drivers side window was coming off.2. CD player rattled with brakes were applied.3. Three of the four door windows rattle (and feel loose) when they are rolled partially down.4. Rattles from the dash area5. When I press the cluch down, the pedal squeeks.6. When shifting from neutral to first gear while the car is parked on a cold morning, I can hear a humming noise when I release the clutch after shifting into first.I assume that the weather stripping was replaced because denverguy has made no further mention of it. This item seems to have been straight forward.The CD player rattle has been an issue for quite a while http://forums.genvibe.com/zerothread?id=1455 , and denverguy says it was fixed. Again, a straight forward item.Because #3 seems to be the sticky situation, I'm going to leave it until last.Rattles from the dash area ... yes we all have them. They bother some people more than others. Personally, the roads I drive on don't merit taking my car to the dealer to get a dash rattle fixed because a) rattles seem to come & go due to poorly maintained roads in my area and b) I'm not convinced that it having the dash taken apart will help matters any, but might just create a new, even more annoying rattle. This is exactly what happened to denverguy. When it comes to dash rattles, the trend seems to be that the dealerships don't take them seriously, so I don't know why anyone bothers to have them looked at! So, I'm sure it's frustrating for any service person to have to diagnose dash rattles (and fix them without creating new ones). However, if GM is going to cover dash rattles under warranty, I would suggest that a GM-wide policy be implemented when it comes to dash rattles (and it's pretty simple, if you ask me): take the service tech for a drive. Let the customer drive. If you can hear the rattle, you've got a much better chance of fixing it, I would guess.However, it appears that in the case of denverguy, the service tech did not take him out for a drive. Shame shame. So, now that we've all agreed that dash rattles are a tough situation, let's just let sleeping dogs lie.Now, my case is different. My car had a major problem (spontaneously downshifting on the highway, as it was unable to maintain 100 km/h when in 4th gear. It was constantly having to shift into 3rd to maintain speed). GM told me repeatedly that this was the car's design. However, no other AWD car was available (in the entire province) to have the District Service Manager take for a drive to do a comparison. And, no CEL ever came on, and the diagnostics offered no codes. Meanwhile, I'm driving a lemon that gets 12L/100 km, 5 days a week at 210 km/day. This started at 20,000 km, and continued until 45,000 km when it was finally fixed. It is the understatement of the year to say that I accept "That's the way the car's designed" as the root of my problem, when in actuality, it was a plugged catalytic converter. What I've learned is that the car is NOT DESIGNED PROPERLY, if an exhaust component can fail completely without triggering a CEL, considering the emissions standards to which this car was manufactured.So, back to denverguy's problems. It appears to me that it's his car, not his wife's/gf's, etc. I'm sure that other people take cars in to get repairs, but that was not the case for denverguy, and my fiance only took my car to the dealership after the DSM "moved" my case to a bigger dealership, 2 hours from where I work.Clutch pedal squeak in the GT is also a common problem that seems to work itself out. I guess you can attribute that to "that's the way the car's designed", but I think that everyone here who had that problem saw it disappear. That's the benefit of having thousands of other Vibe/Matrix owner's here: you get to learn from their experiences.As far as the humming noise, I can't say what the deal is with that. Because I don't drive a 5 or 6 spd, I have to admit that I don't pay as much attention to those issues. Perhaps someone else here on the board can offer some insight on this. Maybe they all do this?OK, back to #3: the rattely windows. My windows don't rattle, no matter what their position. Some owners have found that theirs do, and it's a matter of re-adjustment. I think meathead333 had this problem, but I can't find his post right now. The point is, on this one, IT'S NOT THE WAY THE CAR'S DESIGNED! Not all the windows rattle. Even if all the windows in all the Vibes & Matrices all over the world did rattle, they shouldn't! That's why we, as owners, take the car back to the dealership, because that is our first line of contact with the GM design team. If GM is unaware that they've built thousands of cars with rattling windows because no owner ever told them, then I guess they're not to blame. But, there are owners who have reported this issue, so the "car's design" defense doesn't sit with me.As the front-line for GM, yes the service techs take a lot of crap. If you don't want it, then you're in the wrong line of business, baby. But don't give up so easily! Just because you don't know how to fix it on the first try, doesn't mean that it's impossible to fix. However, we paid a lot of money for our cars, and we paid a lot of money buying warranty for our cars, and we deserve to get stuff fixed when it's broken and covered under the warranty. If the service tech doesn't get paid what he's worth, and doesn't even bother to fix the problem, then he's not going to get paid what he's worth the second, third .... time that the customer has to bring it in for repair.So, I guess my advice for a service advisor is: do your job. Get the information. And my advice for service techs is: learn what you ought to know. If it's not on the work order, call the customer for more information. Take them for a test drive if that's what it takes.As a response to the cruise control issue, I think that's your own fault. You don't know what the proper operation of the cruise control system is, then you go replacing parts because it doesn't operate the way you expect it to. Instead of reading the manual, you cost yourselves time & money by replacing non-defective parts. I discovered this "feature" of the Vibe the first day I owned it. I read the manual, and found it that's the way it is. I accepted it & moved on. I'm sure if the customer had been aware of this from the get go, he'd have done the same.

[Mavrik]

You make good points to and I was not saying his problems do not exist. I have just gotten my Vibe and its a little to cold outside to want the windows down a crack so mine may or may not rattle. Dash squeaks are common as well, I get those concerns all the time at work and have been quite successful in fixing them. As for that cruise control concern I failed to mention I had only been on the job for 2 weeks at that time and got all the information from him that I could but I did not read any manuals, my shop foreman had never worked on a Vibe yet.What I find interesting is that the only concerns I have come across as problems on Vibes as only been that one fellow. His Cruise control (designed that way, guess he didn't read his manual) and he has static from his rear speakers when the vehicle is running. The rear speakers have been replaced and this monday we are replacing his stereo because we have narrowed it down to a ground problem internally. The dealership I work at has sold a very large amount of Vibes and so far we have just been doing oil changes and regular service so them so far.Its interesting though on that concern about the hum when shifting from neutrel to first on a cold morning. I do know that problem exists, sorry I don't know the cure. It happened about 2 out of 7 cold starts on my 5spd Sunfire and I never had it looked at. Sometimes though I do believe the Sales people do not understand everything about each car as well... take the cruise control issue, the ball was dropped on that one obviously. Sales should have explained to him how it works, myself should have tried to get a manual to read, the customer should have read his manual as well.We all paid a lot of money for our toy.. I mean car heh and of course we want it working perfect. Just don't give up on your service department if they are doing their best for you. Sometimes it takes a while to get an issue resolved... and if someone tells you again "thats design issues." well check back with the great number of us here and see if we have the same prob heh and maybe even sneek over to another dealership and test drive one of theirs... they won't know what your really doing.But as a final thought, insist on taking someone for a drive. Your driving habits can reproduce the concern a lot faster then theirs. You could be complaining of a rattle which is there but the tech might hear the rattle, plus a clunk and a squeak from other areas and won't know which one your complaining about. Take them for a drive, they need to get out more anyway.

[stkos79]

thank you mavik you gave a good descriptionthis is my best why i can describe to get your car serviced as best as i know,1.call make an appointment for service2.bring you car in tell you service writer the concerns3. point out exact complants by showing or road testing with the writer4.hand off the keys /and wait , the job will get dispatched5.tech will go over it .ie road test checking si ,at that time if they are finding no problemsthey ask the service writer to road test with themif they can not get the problem to accurethen you'll get a call6. you come back to the dealer and ask if you can road test/show your complaints to the shop forman or service manager7.if they can't help you out them make a call to gmbut most complants are cleared up at line 6because most dealers need good csi and hategm reps getting on there cases hope this helps the next time you are in for service

[joatmon]

It is frustrating to the customer to have complaints dismissed as design "features". Things like in http://forums.genvibe.com/zerothread?id=7631 where MJN2 was told that they wouldn't fix his rattle problem because it resulted from his driving habits (pushing his poor little GT engine into that dangerous, all bets are off 4000+ RPM range) Also, dealer familiarity with the Vibe has been an issue for GM.I doubt if the average car owner cares much, if any, about the reimbursement structure between GM and the techs for warranty repairs. The service dept is the front line for post-sale customer interface, a big part of customer satisfaction and loyalty is won or lost in the service bay. Unfortunately, any financial change that would motivate the techs would likely end up being paid for by the customer, either in higher purchase cost or in higher costs for non-warranty repairs. The money has to come from somewhere, there's no such thing as a free lunch.Demand satisfaction, but remember that for the most part, dealer service techs are people too. I haven't had any problems significant enought to go back to the dealer and lose the time to get them fixed. I do have the window rattle "feature" as do others ( http://forums.genvibe.com/zerothread?id=6178 and http://forums.genvibe.com/zerothread?id=1851 ) I have a dash rattle, seems to be up by the light sensor, but again, not worth losing a day to get it looked at by people who may or may not know how to or be willing to fix it.

[Vibe]

I work for GM and believe me---GM wants to hear from people who do not get treated right by a dealer concerning their car ,because they know that they will lose future sales.GM shut a dealer down here in the Detroit area because of the numerous complaints regarding their service department.So call the 800 number and don't let up until you are satisfied.James (Vibe)

[Mavrik]

Some people think that the GM number is 1800-sorry about your luck but it does work. I have never called it though and none of my customers have ever called it on me. My CSI is very good save for the odd complaint of parts not being available right away or the vehicle not ready when needed but thats all in a day's work.You guys know how hard it can be to find a rattle? heh first the tech takes the car for a ride, if he hears it then he takes it into the shop and starts taking things apart. Obviously there won't be anything with a sign on it saying "I'm loose, tighten me up!" so he moves this, tightens that, lubricates this and then puts it all back together and road tests it again. If the noise is still there then he repeats the process again. Course if he does all that and hears nothing afterwards, he claims its fixed... hopefully and tells the service advisore the car is done. But you get a few miles down the road and wait whats that? "rattle rattle..." well back you go for another shot.You ask any tech what is his least favorite job to get assigned and right off most will say "rattle while vehicle is in warranty." He will of course do his best either way but he has bills to pay and warranty jobs are not were he makes money. Now obviously there are some dealerships that are complete jack a _ _ out there. The one mention that was shut down in Detriot had to have been bad. But on a whole, the dealership is not some uncaring tyrant wanting our money. They are motivated for customer service, loyalty and repeat customers. The place I work has customers that only stop coming when they pass away. My fellow service advisor has been there 10 years and has a large amount of customers dedicated to him. They know him, trust him and will always come to him. Even if they buy a car elsewhere cause they lost faith in someone in sales... we service them. We know that your experience today decides what you tell your friends about us, how many more cars your going to buy from us, do we have your loyalty and satisfaction.Most advisors and techs do know those rattles are not in your head

[joatmon]

Quote, originally posted by Mavrik »You guys know how hard it can be to find a rattle? ...He will of course do his best either way but he has bills to pay and warranty jobs are not were he makes money. I usually try to be understanding, but as a customer, I should not need to either know or care about that. That's between GM and the tech. My satisfaction about warranty service should not be affected by either the difficulty of resolving the problem or how much the tech gets paid for a particular job. Sorry if rattles are a problem for you service guys, maybe you need to get on the manufacturer to build a less rattle-prone car. .

[stkos79]

Quote, originally posted by joatmon »Sorry if rattles are a problem for you service guys, maybe you need to get on the manufacturer to build a less rattle-prone car. . when you call gm tell them your issuesproduct reports take time to correct issuesthats like telling mcdonalds to change theircheeseburgers because they cause people to get fat

[joatmon]

Your analogy makes it sound like GM cars are inherently rattle prone, and people should realize that before they buy one, but I don't think that's true or what you intended. Too bad there's no procedure or process to try to improve the reimbusement to the tech for warranty work. Kind of disheartening to know that the tech is gonna be in a bad mood for getting a bad deal on warranty work. Still, from the customers standpoint, getting things fixed under warranty sure beats paying for the repair out of pocket.If warranty rattle repair is a tech's least profitable job, what it the most profitable job? denverguy81, does the humming sound start when you shift into first with the clutch still in, as you are releasing the clutch to start to move, or as you accelerate after fully releaseing the clutch? Does it go away when you shift into second?

[stkos79]

im sure all car lines have there share of rattlesplus all roads are not the smoothestthey try to dispatch work that evens out the warrenty vs cp workso techs get some good work but that does not happen all the timewhat jobs do tech like thats easybrake jobs (paid 2hr that take 15 mins)thats gravy he,he

[Mavrik]

Lower intake jobs... book time of 6-8 hours on some vehicles... a real plus for techs who can get it done faster cause they still get paid for the 8. Course those can be difficult jobs so I'd say brakes as well. I believe all cars no matter who makes them have rattles. Your dash for example has lots of different parts all put together, from metal with plastic bolted to it or such... plastic against plastic also. Now you take all that, move it against eachother and you get squeaks and rattles heh.

[joatmon]

Quote, originally posted by Mavrik »I believe all cars no matter who makes them have rattles. Your dash for example has lots of different parts all put together, from metal with plastic bolted to it or such... plastic against plastic also. Now you take all that, move it against eachother and you get squeaks and rattles heh.And for 36,000 miles, you guys have to fix it for free, and smile to the customer.

[threekrows]

There is no good paying job under warranty.If you find one and make a little money on it,it'll be changed in the next labor time update.As far as non-warranty jobs,brake jobs,and services that you use machines on,like trans flush,coolant flush,or an induction system service.You can't usually make any money on rattles.A lot of my tickets say,"rattle in dash"and end up being no where near the dash.Sometimes we just can't find a noise.There is no all-knowing information resource that I can find that tells me every single solution to every problem.I have to pool a few sources of info and hope I can come up with a solution,but guess what?I am only human and sometimes you just can't please everyone and fix everything.I try my best and thats all I can do.....I have to make my vibe payments...lol...but I can guarantee that has no bearing on my quality of work.I try my best,warranty or not.

[denverguy81]

Personally, I think I could be able to overlook the rattle from the dash area. I can just turn on music or the vents and it will be drowned out. However, I can't overlook the rattling of the windows.I used to own a new model 1999 VW Jetta and the drivers side window also rattled. It didn't make too much noise rattling (mainly because I was living in Denver at the time and their roads are very smooth... no bumps or potholes) so I really didn't care about it.One evening, I got into my Jetta and shut the door while the window was half way down. And as soon as I slammed the door shut, the glass fell right through to the inside of the door.This was after service departments had closed, so I had to hope no one tried to mess with the interior of my car overnight (I lived in an downtown neighborhood with only street parking). I had to take an entire day off of work so I could take the car into the dealership and wait around so they could fit it into their schedule to fix it... and of course, this happened right after my 36,000 mi/3 year warranty expired, so I had to shell out $500.So yeah, I'd like to get the windows on my Vibe taken car of, not only because it can be pretty annoying to hear a loud rattle every time I hit a bump in Metro Detroit when I have the window down, but because I don't want another situation like my Jetta to arrise.

[pmh013]

I found a couple more threads on rattling windows.http://forums.genvibe.com/zerothread?id ... ?id=6413It turns out it was lordyogi who had the broken window, not meathead333.

[denverguy81]

A few days ago, I got the Pontiac Customer Satisfaction Survey in the mail to fill out in regards to my experience at the dealership I took the car to. I was going to call the Pontiac customer service number and just by pass the service manager to see about getting my issues resolved, but I decided I would try the dealership again.So I spoke to the service manager, which was very friendly. He said he would do anything that needed to be done to get my concerns taken care of.I dropped my Vibe off this morning and hopefully will be getting it back tonight.I'll be sure to let you know what happened.

[Mavrik]

How did things go there with your Vibe this time? Get everything resolved?

[denverguy81]

Well!I dropped my car off early Thursday morning expecting to get my car back that night since they were open until 9pm. However, they told me that they weren't able to finish the work - Why I don't know, I would think it would be a simple job that could be completed in a few hours.So they arranged for me to have a rental. I picked it up Thursday evening. Friday came along and they told me my car was ready. So I went to the dealership and dropped off the car and got my own. They told me the rattle was from some aftermarket equipment I installed (XM) and weren't able to fix it. But apparently they fixed the rattles in the windows.I started the car, expecting to hear one of the stations from my XM satellite radio or some other FM station. I got nothing but static. So I went back in and asked them if they disconnected anything from the radio when they pulled out the radio to check out the dash. They said they didn't. I conluded that my satellite receiver WAS receiving a signal but somehow the audio wasn't getting to the stereo deck.So I drove home and on the way, I noticed that the rattle from the dash was gone (despite not having XM). Then I rolled down the windows to see if they still rattled, and sure enough... they did! The rattle in the passenger window was still there and the rattle in the driver side window was even worse than before.When I got home, I pulled off the silver plastic casing around the stereo and tried to feel in the back area of the radio. I felt a cord and moved it around and when I moved it in certain spots on the radio, I could hear the XM broadcast.I grabbed some tools, undid all the bolts and pulled the radio out. The antenna cord was laying there and not plugged into the propper port. So I plugged it back in and heard my XM loud and clear.So to sum it up, the rattle in the dash was gone, they screwed up my satellite radio which I had to repair, and they didn't fix the windows like they said they did... in that case, they even made it worse.And what's even better is that I just hit 36,000 miles, so my warranty is expired.Just great!

[joatmon]

Salsa! is right, you took it in for warranty work before the warranty ran out, they haven't fixed it yet, the fact that the warranty has since run out shouldn't matter. When you take it back in, maybe you can take the service manager for a ride and show him the rattle that you need fixed. Did they actually say that they fixed the window rattle? Next time, ask them what they did to fix it, especially if they actually do fix it. that might help folks beyond warranty.As for it being a simple job, it's hard to tell. If there is no TSB or other service info on how to solve window rattle on these cars, it could take a while until the techs figure out some way to fix it on their own.

[denverguy81]

I am just so burned out on taking my car in for repairs.I hate having to wake up earlier than I normally do to drop the car off in the morning. I don't like burdening other people to drop me off and pick me up from work (because downtown is outside the 10 mile radius of the courtesy shuttle). I don't like getting the run around or being taken for a ride because I'm soft-spoken (and might look like a pushover to some).I just don't enjoy the idea of having to alter my life and time for the third time to try to get something taken care of that was supposed to be fixed the first time.When I get the second Pontiac Customer Survey in the mail, I'll fill that out and give a scathing review... I'll also think about calling the hotline.

[denverguy81]

Oh, and yes, they said they fixed the rattles. I have the service sheet at home that states what they did to remedy the problem.