Considering a Vibe ...

[davidelewis]

Hi All,My wife and I had a chance to test drive a 2004 Pontiac Vibe for 24 hours over the past weekend. We've also test driven the Suzuki Aerio SX, and have been comparing the Vibe with the Aerio.There are many things about the Vibe that impressed us, but there are a some issues that gave us concern:[1] Although wonderfully fuel efficient, the Vibe is truly gutless. At highway speeds it does quite nicely, but in circumstances that require torque (such as uphill starts, etc.) it performs poorly. Although the engine noise may be lower (less decibels) or equivalent to the Aerio at most speeds, the pitch is often higher - the Vibe is more whiny![2] The "tippiness" is almost as bad as the Aerio. We were disappointed when test driving the Aerio on a tight windy road. The Vibe didn't fair much better - it was about 85% as "tippy" as the Aerio. I'm guessing because they both have a tall body that this contributes to the effect.[3] Although the seats in the Vibe are plush and initially comfortable, I found that I could never position the seat quite correctly so that I was comfortably positioned with my arms and legs. Either my legs were comfortable but I had to stretch with my arms for the steering wheel, or the arms were great but my legs rather jammed. I find this surprising as although 6' 1", my legs are a little short and my arms are a little longer than usual.[4] Although the plastic trunk seems initially appealing, I have no doubt that cargo would slide around all over the place. Although the Vibe provides a funky set of loops that slide along tracks for securing a load, they look like they are more hassle than they are worth. This is a problem that shows up in virtually all reviews that I've read - ranging from the favourable to less favourable.[5] A posting in the GenVibe forum cave me reason for concern. It outline the various problems that Vibe owners have had with the 2003 model: battery, daytime running lamps (DRL), cladding replacement (2003>2004), mudflaps, discoloured cladding "weatherstripping", paint chipping, clutch wear/ smell, a/c noise. These issues were an accumulation of problems that Vibe owners had that the GenVibe administrator talked with the Vibe Quality Manager at GM. See: http://forums.genvibe.com/zerothread?id=6124 If you are a current Vibe owner, I'm wondering if you can provide me with feedback on these concerns. Have you had similar concerns? What are your experiences?Thanks in advance for your suggestions and recommendations!- David

[ragingfish]

Quote, originally posted by davidelewis »[1] Although wonderfully fuel efficient, the Vibe is truly gutless. At highway speeds it does quite nicely, but in circumstances that require torque (such as uphill starts, etc.) it performs poorly. Although the engine noise may be lower (less decibels) or equivalent to the Aerio at most speeds, the pitch is often higher - the Vibe is more whiny!The engine is somewhat loud, but certainly not that bad IMHO.As to gutless, I disagree by far! What model did you test drive? If it was AWD, keep in mind those have the lowest horsepower of the three models. Also, if you get a stick, it's much more fun, and you gain more control over things such as uphill starts.Quote »[2] The "tippiness" is almost as bad as the Aerio. We were disappointed when test driving the Aerio on a tight windy road. The Vibe didn't fair much better - it was about 85% as "tippy" as the Aerio. I'm guessing because they both have a tall body that this contributes to the effect.Correct. The center of gravity is higher in these cars, making them more prone to the tip-like effect. However, I definitely find the car handles amazingly, even on tight turns.I'm going to be lowering mine about 2" in the near future. That also improves handling. Things such as a sway bar or stickier tires also would help.Quote »[3] Although the seats in the Vibe are plush and initially comfortable, I found that I could never position the seat quite correctly so that I was comfortably positioned with my arms and legs. Either my legs were comfortable but I had to stretch with my arms for the steering wheel, or the arms were great but my legs rather jammed. I find this surprising as although 6' 1", my legs are a little short and my arms are a little longer than usual.Can't help you there. I'm 5'5" and have no problems getting a comfortable position.Quote »[4] Although the plastic trunk seems initially appealing, I have no doubt that cargo would slide around all over the place. Although the Vibe provides a funky set of loops that slide along tracks for securing a load, they look like they are more hassle than they are worth. This is a problem that shows up in virtually all reviews that I've read - ranging from the favourable to less favourable.Yeah, stuff will slip. Get the GM cargo mat, or go to lowes or home depot, buy some matting fora botu $10, and cut to fit. Many members did that. Helped a lot.As to reviews, well, these people are stating their opinon. Just because they say somethign is good or bad, it doesn't mean it is. It's all opinionated. Quote »[5] A posting in the GenVibe forum cave me reason for concern. It outline the various problems that Vibe owners have had with the 2003 model: battery, daytime running lamps (DRL), cladding replacement (2003>2004), mudflaps, discoloured cladding "weatherstripping", paint chipping, clutch wear/ smell, a/c noise. These issues were an accumulation of problems that Vibe owners had that the GenVibe administrator talked with the Vibe Quality Manager at GM. See: http://forums.genvibe.com/zerothread?id=6124One thing you need to keep in mind here is that the Vibe has only been in production for a little over a year.Most new car model launches are plauged with quality issues. It's to be expected. Remeber the launch of the Focus? It was a disaster. But after a year or so, most of the major things are worked out.Same here. Yes, there's an issue where the cladding on two tone models can get "sandblasted." That's not he fault of GM. It's due to rocks. They realized it was aproblem, and issued a service bulletin that will replace damaged clading and give you extended rockers to guard against futre damage.The weak battery is being adressed. We've been told a TSB is due out before xmas authorizing an upgraded battery in situations that call for one.The paint is an issue with many cars these days. I've had people who own fords, mazdas, vws, and dodge's all raise similar paint concerns. The guys at GM are taking our concerns to heart and looking to be sure there isn't somethin in the process causing the problem.A/C noise is new to me. Don' remember hearing anything there.AFAIK, the discoloured weather stripping only affected a handful of people.Anyway, you had the car for 24 hours, so you know how it will handle. I think you'll be very happy with it...there's about 1000 or so people here who love them...but you kinda need to decide if it's the right mtch for you.

[AKLGT]

hmmm... you are considering a vibe opposed to a suzuki aerio? wow. ok, i suppose they are similiar in type of vehicle but i don't think they are in the long run. as raging has already said, some of the issues you are stating are not really issues, just a matter of opinion.1. engine noise: yes, the vibe is a little noisy, but then again, it's not a lexus. you can't expect the nice quiet ride as a luxury car. it's not terrible and i dont really mind it too much. and as far as gutless, what model are you looking at? i have a GT with the vvtl-i engine. it's less than gutless and extremely powerful. if you are talking about the auto base or awd model, then yes, they are not the best on low end torque. but what other vehicle out there can you get a factory installed supercharger that will increase the torque and bhp? plus, by just adding a simple short ram air intake for $50 off ebay, you'll feel a big difference. i've driven the golf gti 1.8 L engine and the low end torque is by far much less then the base engine. and that had a turbo charger!2. tippiness: the vibe sits higher than the average car. that's why it's considered a small suv and not a car. higher ground clearance=higher center of gravity. you will feel a little more sway in the winding turns than say a civic. i drove back and forth from anchorage to fairbanks this summer, very windy highway. not really bad on curves. i also lowered my vibe 1.5" and that helped keep it tighter. you really don't need to do that unless you drive like me. 3. seating: i am short and usually have to deal with just the opposite. hard to find a position that my legs can reach the pedals, i can see over the dash, and the steering column not jammed into me. i don't have a big problem with the vibe, it has several positions and adjustments. also, i know silverawd on here is 6'4" and he has no problems getting in or out.4. i have a cargo mat in my trunk and no problems what so ever. that includes the kicker ported sub enclosure that's in the rear. you can get a cheap cargo mat off ebay for like $30 or so. it's an easy fix. why is it any different then the back end of a truck? i put a spray in bedliner and a carpet bedliner in my Tundra. before that, things slid all over the place! didn't make it any less useful. i've transported flowers for weddings in the rear and let me tell you. it's MUCH easier to clean up water and flower parts off plastic than on carpet!5. various concerns: true there are some issues w/ batteries, paint, cladding, etc. all are very minor and not that big. i live in AK and it's a little colder than most areas so my battery has a hard time when it's extremely cold. that issue is being resolved. the paint is thin, but no thinner than any other vehicle i or my family have ever owned. and really, what car does not have issues in the beginning? and if you are comparing the vibe to ANY suzuki, it will hands down be much more reliable in the long run. keep in mind the vibe is essentially a toyota. you get the gm price tag with the toyota quality. you will never get that in any suzuki.all in all, the vibe is an excellent vehicle. if given the choice between it or a suzuki of any kind, i would no doubt take my vibe! besides, the vibe is SO much better looking!

[Merzbow]

1)I love the sound of the Vibe. Nice and healthy.2)No coment...Don't knwow how and Aerio drives.3)My seat fits me perfectly. I am 6' - 6'1" also. So I don't think that problem can be solved regaurdless of the car unless the seat can be pivited on 25 different planes.4)Most Vibe's come with a cargo mat (mine did) and that completely eliminated the sliding of cargo...unless of course its round or extremely light weight, which wouldn't be any different from any other car in regaurds to sliding 5) As far as the problems you listed, I would have to imagine don't go for every Vibe. My battery is perfect (still stock battery); Daytime running lights are fine unless you tamper with them (I disconected the DRL wire so I can turn the lights on and off at will, and I have not encountered any prob. what-so-ever); The cladding on mine is flawless and I've been driving it for over a year and it is still the same color as when I bought it in August 2002; My paint is also flawless...needs ot be waxed but still fine. althogh the roads around me arn't quite as harsh as where others live; the A/C doesn't make any noise, but just like every other car since they banned the old air conditioning fluid, it doesn't get very cold. haven't encountered any noise in mine though.-All of that is just my Vibe though, obviously everyone's is going to be different.

[NY Pete]

[1] Yes, it is gutless. Comes with the territory on this price of vehicle these days. I'd say the 5-speed is a bit easier to put in the "sweet spot" as far as getting the most out of this (fuel efficiency-optimized)engine.[2] Have some aftermarket springs installed, most cost about $200 and it truly changes the way the car handles.[3] I'm 6', my fianceé is 5'9" and we both think it's the most comfortable long-haul car we've ridden in for trips. I have nothing but praise for the seats... Oh, her dad (at 6'5") also fits in the passenger seat quite comfortably (which is nearly unheard of for a car this size).[4] Get the cargo mat for $50 at the same time you buy the car, and the cargo nets for an additional $35. Trust me.[5] No problems with the battery for me, disable the auto headlight sensor in the dash, get a monochromatic Vibe with no cladding problems, the paint WILL chip, the clutch WILL smell occasionally (but mine isn't wearing abnormally), no A/C noise for me so far.Basically, I came from a BMW, and this is no BMW. But for what it is, and what it costs ($15k and up with rebates), it's a good value and should go forever with its tried and true (but untimately unexciting) Toyota drivetrain. Make your own decision, drive 'em all, and hopefully you'll be happy!Regards,Pete

[DavidPIL]

Hi David,I must add my 10 cents in here as well...I won't go through each one of your points but please don't take negative comments from here as indication that there are problems with this car. Although I think this website is an invaluable resource, sometimes reading every nit-picking item can make you think there are major flaws throughout the whole Vibe production. I honestly think most of the problems I've had stem from reading about them in the first place then thinking... "Hey, my Vibe must be like that too". As a minor issue gets discussed, those who don't have the problem might think it's a bigger issue than it really is. I'm not sure if there is a website for the Aerio like this or if there are websites for most other cars but I'm sure if there were, there would be just as many, if not more forum topics regarding nit-picky things which will seem much more of an issue than they really are. Weight each item you see discussed as to how important that would be to you. I did that, taking the negative with the positive. If I didn't have this site I probably would have bought a Ford Focus but I know I wouldn't be as happy with the choice. I am extremely happy with my VibeGT and find it's idiosyncracies no worse than any other vehicle I've owned or driven. (Except that ABS thing http://forums.genvibe.com/zerothread?id=7464). The GT is a fun vehicle. If you like modifying your car then it's not too difficult to play with.... If you keep it stock, it's still a powerful and so far, reliable vehicle in it's class.Dave

[Sputnik]

Quote, originally posted by Merzbow »4)Most Vibe's come with a cargo mat (mine did) Actually thats not quite true. Most Vibes do not come with the cargo mat. Its an extra charge. I negotiated with my dealer to get my cargo mat thrown in for free. Anyway as for problems with the Vibe - I've had none *knock on wood*. I have no paint issues... the only "issue" I've had is that the battery is somewhat too small but as its been mentioned here the TSB should be out by Christmas. The battery issue has never caused my Vibe not to start - it just has to think about it a little first.

[scherry2]

I'll send you a GM certificate if you need one

[Merzbow]

Oh, yeah mine must have given it for free too. He told me if I advertise his dealership on my car with his liscense plate frame he would give me a free oil change and some other surprises. I'm assuming the mat was the surprise cause I didn't pay for it.

[Sputnik]

Quote, originally posted by scherry2 »I'll send you a GM certificate if you need one Why would I need one?

[Sputnik]

Quote, originally posted by silverawd26 »I would like to take a guess that Scherry2 clicked on the wrong person and wanted to make the response to Davidelewis. It was nice of him to offer though. Yes I assumed that as well... just making a polite point I guess. If I was getting a new car I'd take him up on it!PS I love the squirrel pic. I'm a squirrel nut (nice play on words eh?).

[davidelewis]

Hi All,Thanks very much for your feedback! I'm glad to hear that most of you are very happy Vibe owners. Last Sunday, we test drove the base 5-speed manual model (130 HP) - thus the remarks about the engine having "no guts". I gather that cargo mats are the solution to sliding cargo, although this must negate purpose of the tie-downs. Based on your suggestions, lowering the suspension and installing aftermarket springs seems to be the preferred solution for the "tippyness". I'm glad to hear that a TSB has been issued for the battery.I'm still worried about the paint being "thin" and/or prone to chipping. Does anyone know if this problem has been "cured" with the 2004 Vibe model?Quote, originally posted by scherry2 »I'll send you a GM certificate if you need one Wow! That's a generous offer ... do you know if these certificates are honoured by GM dealers in Canada?Quote, originally posted by DavidPIL »I'm not sure if there is a website for the Aerio like this or if there are websites for most other cars but I'm sure if there were, there would be just as many, if not more forum topics regarding nit-picky things which will seem much more of an issue than they really are. Yes, there is a similar user site for the Suzuki Aerio: http://www.suzukiaerioforum.com/aerio/index.php I've asked a similar set of questions there: http://www.suzukiaerioforum.co...art=0Thanks!- David

[Sputnik]

Quote, originally posted by davidelewis »I'm glad to hear that a TSB has been issued for the battery.While we expect a TSB to be issued before Christmas sometime, as far as I know, it hasn't actually been issued yet.

[scherry2]

Quote, originally posted by Sputnik »Why would I need one?yes I ment the original poster, I had 10 certificates monday I only have 5 left. all to genvibe people. and I think it would be good in canada.

[davidelewis]

Quote, originally posted by scherry2 »which he did email me for a GM certificate. I had 10 certificates monday I only have 5 left. all to genvibe people. and I think it would be good in canada.If you're willing to send me a GM certificate, I would sure appreciate it! How should I contact you to give my mailing address?Thx!- David

[davidelewis]

Quote, originally posted by davidelewis »If you're willing to send me a GM certificate, I would sure appreciate it! How should I contact you to give my mailing address?Actually, it looks like according to the "GM in the Driveway" FAQ, that this offer is only valid in the US:Q: Can I receive this discount from any GM Dealer?A: This program is available through all participating U.S. GM Dealers and is voluntary on the part of the dealers. Dealer participation is on a vehicle-by-vehicle basis. Please inform your dealer of your intention to use the "GM in the Driveway" certificate during your first contact with the dealer. If your dealer elects not to participate, you may visit another GM Dealer.Source: http://www.gminthedriveway.com/getInfo.gm?page=faq

[scherry2]

still it can't hurt to ask. i'll send ya one any way if you want it.

[AKLGT]

wow. so i was reading thru some of the info at the aerio forums. very interesting. i suppose if i was only looking at numbers, they seem almost identical. guess i'm not sure where the get the aerio is so reliable? but, hey, they have to like their car too, right? and what about it looking like a minivan? does my vibe look like a minivan to you? hell no! i get more people telling me they like it and never seen a vibe, how sporty it looks, bet it drives nice, ooh what is it? than you will ever hear about the aerio. but, hey, i like MY car.

[AKLGT]

Quote, originally posted by silverawd26 »Thanks Sputnick. I came across that the other day and thought it was cute with the little critter sucking on a straw in a can of beer. Thanks. aww! look at the cute little squirrelly. look at its big fluffy tail.

[NSimkins]

... on topic please

[AKLGT]

Quote, originally posted by NSimkins »... on topic please sorry.so, davidlewis, any decisions yet on which one it is?

[nate66]

Here are a few points from my Shadow Base Vibe with 20,000 miles on it.-No paint problems.-No cladding or weather strip problems-Picked up the GM cargo mat for $50-The engine loves to rev, and most of the power is up high so don't be afraid to run higher RPM's when you need the power.-No a/c noise.-The clutch problem is for GT's only.-It gets super gas mileage. -I love the daytime/automatic headlights.-Coming from an SUV the Vibe doesn't feel tippy at, it feels like a sports car compared to my old Santa Fe.-The battery seems adequate here in Indiana, but I'm not sure how it would perform in your colder climate.My only problem is with the driver side window rattling abit when it's not fully up or down. All in all, it's a great and trouble free car.

[NY Pete]

Quote, originally posted by silverawd26 »Yeah, he is having a blast.Here's a pic of his buddy... taking a trip... http://www.thepoormans.com/SkeetSquirrel.mpeg Pete

[Merzbow]

(removed)...That is perhaps the funniest thing I've seen all year LOL.

[17tobyracing]

I would have to agree whole heartedly that the Vibe, no matter which model you drive, is gutless. You can't expect to get too many ponies out of an engine that is 1.8 liters, heck I buy soda in 2 liter bottles. There's no replacement for displacement. However, we have used ours on several long trips and it is fine once you get up to highway speeds and the cruise control is one of the most consistant I've ever used.The Vibe is no more "tippy" than any other vehicle in it's class and better than most. We noticed a vast improvment in handling when we upgraded the tires. I actually enjoy the Vibe's nimbleness and it's tight steering.The seats are actually more confortable than the ones in our other vehicles (2003 Pontiac Grand Prix GT and 2000 Dodge Grand Caravan). We bought the Vibe as my wife's everyday driver and reserved the Caravan for long trips. We have now taken the Vibe to Myrtle Beach (14 hour ride) twice and we will be selling the Caravan in the Spring. I find the versatile trunk to be one of the biggest features of the Vibe. The car as a huge amount of storage space for a smaller car. It is well worth the investment of buying the cargo net kits and the trunk liner with the car. These options will allow you to run the full range of cargo carrying abilitis. The liner will resolve the sliding issue. I even recommend looking into the "seat back storage".As far as the common problems that seem to occur in the Vibe, most will all be covered under the vehicle's warantee. The key is to buy from a good dealer, that has a focus on service. We are going to replace the stock battery as it get's cold here in Central New York. All the other little bugs have been addressed by our l;ocal service department.All in all, if we were given the choice to switch to different car, we would stick with the Vibe. We've owned Audis, Saabs, Fords, Dodges, Jeeps, and Chevys, but the Vibe has been the most fun to drive. Toyota has a great reputation for quality and the Matrix is very closely related to the Vibe.

[SGT]

I have only owned my vibe for a couple weeks now, but I love it already. I see a lot of comments on how gutless this car is, but I don't understand them. Of course it isn't a 250hp V-8, but it also doesn't chug gas or cost as much to operate or buy as one either. If I had wanted something that took me 0-60 in 6 seconds or less I would have bought another car. I have owned Z-28s and IROC-Zs in my life and those were nice cars, but they weren't very practical, I got 16 to 18 miles per gallon and the backseat was useless. However at that time in my life they were great. To me, coming from a 2.2 Sunfire, the Vibe is fine in it's pickup. It gets up and goes as it should and at the same time is delivering 30+ MPG which is one of the reasons I bought it. And now for my opinion on the Aerio, this isn't personal, just my opinion. I have never drove one so I cannot comment on how they handle or drive, but I think that car is about as homely as they come. The front end looks like a Geo Metro and the back-end makes the Aztek's look graceful. For these reasons I could never even consider it personally. I love the way the Vibe looks which was another reason why I opted for it. Good luck to you in your decision, I am sure you will make the right one for you and your family.

[davidelewis]

Hi All,Thanks for you advice and suggestions ... BTW, I have subsequently discovered that the "GM In Your Driveway" program is not running in Canada and the coupons are only redeemable in the US.

[Caretaker]

davidelewis: here's my two cents: as a happy Vibe AWD owner I offer up the following free advice. Considering this is a Vibe web page (and a great one) I doubt you will see this kind of straight talk: wait 2 more weeks until the Malibu Maxx comes out. I plan on buying it as I see it as a much improved Vibe. While cost may be a factor for you, there won't be much of a discount on the Maxx at first. However, if you want a 6 cylinder engine which gets 4 cylinder gas mileage, has traction control, a standard rear skylight, up to 41 inches of legroom for rear passengers, telescoping wheel and pedals, headroom equal to the Vibe, and the option of getting a DVD player, remote starter, and lots more, I think you should wait to size the Maxx up against the Vibe. While the Vibe is a very good car, it misses the mark on just a few areas: no flexibility to adjust driver position, mediocre visibility, dashboard dial controls which take a magician to turn when the shifter is in park, and seat fabric which is next to impossible to clean, and stitching which may not hold up over the long term. While I think the Suzuki is a clever design, I think it is several steps below the Vibe. To me, the choice between the Vibe and the Maxx comes down to this: if you can live without some of the cleaver creature comfort features the Maxx has to offer, AND you are looking for a less costly alternative (due to all the incentives on the now 2 year old Vibe), choose the Vibe. It is a very good car, and more importantly, a Toyota, which hopefully will keep me and my genvibe friends driving care free for at least 10 years.

[Kari]

The initial post doesn't really seem to be much of a "comparison." There were no pros and cons of each vehicle...only cons for the Vibe. So how you can compare if it appears your mind is already made up? LOLAnd I agree with the person who said the Aerio is (removed)-ugly...the styling of Vibe has it beat into the ground, hands down.I couldn't be more pleased with my Vibe, honestly. I love it. She's my baby. So I do hope you'll make the right choice.

[davidelewis]

As stated in my original post: "there are many things about the Vibe that impressed us ...". I posted a list of concerns about the Suzuki Aerio to the SuzukiAerioForum, also asking for advise:http://www.suzukiaerioforum.co...art=0Merry Christmas!

[AKLGT]

sorry to see that it's such a hassle trying to decide. i spent 6 months researching what vehicle i wanted. i even considered a hyundai tiburon gt. but then, reality set in and of course i had to go with a toyota made vehicle. reliable as grandma's apple pie. plus to get 180 hp in a 4 banger? and under $22K? oh yeah! sorry, but the aerio wasn't even a contender... extremely ugly and well, it's a suzuki. not that there's anything wrong with that, but i have never cared for them or their quality (exception of the early geo trackers '91-94 yrs). your decision is the difference between rational and intellectual buying, and emotional buying. looking at numbers, statistics, etc... vs what you feel and how you feel when you get in the car. i've bought one car on intellectual thinking... a 98 kia sephia. sold that crapper after 2 months! never again... i'll buy what i like and makes me FEEL one with my car!

[RoundUp]

Quote, originally posted by davidelewis »Hi All,BTW, I have subsequently discovered that the "GM In Your Driveway" program is not running in Canada and the coupons are only redeemable in the US. :-(Not true. It is running in Canada. You probably have to get your coupons from GM Canada employees. A lot of the Canadian employees didn't get the coupons, though. So if you know someone who works for GM, ask them if they have any. But you better do it quick, because the offer runs out the first week of January. Good luck.

[davidelewis]

Quote, originally posted by RoundUp »Not true. It is running in Canada. You probably have to get your coupons from GM Canada employees. A lot of the Canadian employees didn't get the coupons, though. So if you know someone who works for GM, ask them if they have any. But you better do it quick, because the offer runs out the first week of January. Good luck. When I talked to our salesperson, he asked his manager, etc. about this program. His manager claimed to know nothing about it. Can you suggest someone at GM or within Canada who our salesperson can talk to to confirm the validity of the program or to find out more information?Thanks!- David