i hate PETA, those people need a life

[drunkenmaxx]

read this monstrosity (sp?), then we'll talk:Fur flies over flier: PETA targets ‘Nutcracker’ kidsBy David WeberWednesday, December 17, 2003Animal rights advocates will single out small children at performances of ``The Nutcracker'' in the next few weeks by handing out fliers saying ``Your Mommy Kills Animals'' to youngsters whose mothers are wearing fur.      ``Children can't look up to a mom in a battered-raccoon hat or a crushed coyote collar,'' said Ingrid Newkirk, president of People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals. ``Maybe when they're confronted by their own children's hurt looks, fur-wearers' cold hearts will melt.''      The fliers include a color drawing of a woman plunging a large bloody knife into the belly of a terrified rabbit. The fliers urge kids to ``ask your mommy how many dead animals she killed to make her fur clothes.      ``And the sooner she stops wearing fur, the sooner the animals will be safe. Until then, keep your doggie or kitty friends away from mommy - she's an animal killer.''      Brookline child psychologist Dr. Carolyn Newberger called the tactics ``terribly dangerous to children.''      ``It's using children in the worst possible way,'' she said. ``If (the activists) want to legitimately work to protect animals from destruction for fashion, they have every right to. But to do so by targeting children and making them feel their mothers are murderers is absolutely unconscionable.''      Lisa Franzetta, a national coordinator for PETA, said the group will launch its ``fur-ocious'' protest at `Nutcracker' performances in as many as 20 cities across the United States.      Franzetta, who is based in California, said yesterday she did not yet know when the protests will begin in Boston, where ``The Nutcracker'' is playing at the Wang Center for the Performing Arts in the Theater District.      Franzetta acknowledged the anti-fur campaign might spark a backlash. ``It's definitely provocative, I will give you that,'' she said.       Wang Center officials could not be reached for comment about the planned protests.

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[Stang2Vibe]

I have to agree with you there, D-Vibe. These morons have been a nuisance to society for years now. I could only HOPE that if I had kids and took them to the Nutcracker that one of these fools would hand one of these trash flyers to my kid. My lawyers would have a field day. I would also hope that it was a guy handing this to my kid because I would really light up his holiday season with a two-fist to the face salute. Then I'd show him the alternate meaning of "the Nutcracker".This comes from the same geniuses that broke into a medical research lab a few years ago (in Michigan, I think it was) during the night and set most of the research animals free into some nearby woods. They claim that they want to help the animals, well how many thousands of animals did they needlessly kill by releasing diseased and mutated animals into the wild so that they spread the diseases among the healthy animals living there. Way to go, morons. Like my favorite radio talk show host frequently likes to say: "Liberalism ALWAYS generates the exact opposite of its' stated intent". These same idiots like to go into stores that sell fur or run up to people on the street who are wearing fur and ruin the fur with dye or paint. Idiots. What do they think this is going to do? I know what it is going to do---force the manufacturers to kill even MORE animals to make more fur coats to replace the damaged ones. Good thinking, PETA putzes.

[drunkenmaxx]

great commentary!i guess the american indians were disgusting savages for hunting the buffalo? i hate anyone who calls themselve an "activist". this means they do meaningless symbolic protests, neglect their families, and screw up lots of stuff, just so they can feel important at the end of the day. self-centered, bleeding heart, hippy-loser, hypocritical, etc... jerks.i guess that animals like it when they are savagely ripped apart by other animals in the wild- ie-a lion. its not near as bad as the animals who recieve regular meals and sleep good at night until they die at the hands of a human...

[AKLGT]

hmm... so maybe i shouldn't wear my mink coat to the see "the nutcracker" next week? lol. they have a hay day in February when it comes to fur rondevous in anchorage. now they are all boycotting alaska due to the wolf hunts. whatever! http://www.furrondy.net/

[drunkenmaxx]

i would have a blast messing with those people. i would go there with a fur coat all day and tape myself being smart-allecked with them!

[AKLGT]

what's ironic, is they protest and disrupt the vet schools and med students because they believe it's cruelty to animals to operate and learn on them. but, guess who's freaking out, screaming at the vet when there's something wrong with their pet? now, i love animals, don't get me wrong. but there is a line between being cruel to an animal or just helping them as much as possible. those schools do alot for their lab dogs and such, making sure they feel no pain and are loved. most of them, after they've done their time, get adopted by a vet student that takes them home and cares for them. my best friend is at OSU vet school and she's adopted 2 dogs and 2 cats so far! and she's the biggest tree hugger i know. she knows she has to learn about the animal she's going to operate on so she can be successful in healing them....

[Charlievibe]

Because I am an animal person and believe in animal rights, I do think that groups that help and protect animals are necessary and I support most (an I emphasize here MOST) of what they do. However, I do not and cannot agree with handing children these kinds of fliers. I cannot even begin to imagine the damage it will do to them. If PETA has a problem with fur, then I say go after the the people who wear fur, not their innocent children. The children have no say in what their parents do. This is SO wrong and has made me angry. I we were allowed to cuss, I would cut loose. I am mad. Why can't people leave children alone?!?!?! This is sick. As for the Vet issue, I want my dog's and cat's vet to be properly trained so they can take care of my furry kids. As long as the animals aren't in pain and are taken care of, then I don't have a problem with that. And TRD, I did not know that the vet students took the animals home, that's cool and makes me feel WAY better about the whole process. Thanks for the insight.

[drunkenmaxx]

my feeling about the testing is this; if stabbing a monkey with a needle, giving a rat aids, testing meds on a guinea pig, etc... can help the human race cure cancer, aids, herepes or whatever else, then i feel it is totally worth it. is it not normal for an animal (which a human is) to think of its very own species as the most important, putting its commerades before any other animal?

[SGT]

I have to agree with you here. So, let's torment and torture innocent children simply because their parents opt to wear fur. Peta does so many things to hurt their cause, it is actually funny. It is my opinion that animals were placed on this earth in one form or another to serve mankind. It's a shame that some people can put more value on the life of an animal than they can a fellow human. Sad.... Ok stepping off soap box now...

[fuel4soul]

I wonder what the world would be like if Cats and Dogs wre locking us up testing on us or skinning us for fur oo knows what else? I'm sure we'd have some whiners. Sometimes you have to step into the other person's shoe's or um, paws... Why do they do this at the Nutcracker? Are all fur-bearers Nutcracker fans? I don't think by handing them a flier is 'torment and torture' but the ones who can read mostly will just throw them away. Not saying that what they are doing is right either.

[SGT]

As a parent, and former child handing a kid a flier basically saying that your parent is an evil monster who kills cats and dogs is both torment and torture. Animals are just that, animals and they will never compare to the value of a human life in my opinion. Got a problem with a fur wearing (not you, but Peta) take it up with the Fur wearing, don't foist the hatred on innocent children. That is all I am trying to say.

[fuel4soul]

You do know humans ARE Animals don't you? Humans weren't made seperately purely for the fact to override any other lifeform... The flier just said 'Your Mommy Kills Animals' not that your mom is an 'evil monster who kills cats and dogs' I just don't think it's that big of a deal.. I am an assistant teacher and I'm around alot of kids all day, and for any of them to get a flier like that, They really wouldn't care or make a big deal. I would assume that they would just ask their parents about it and have it explained to them. It's good that an organization fights for what they believe in, Though in some ways it's not a peaceable manner of protest.

[Merzbow]

That's upsetting...who determines if the fur coat is a real animal or fake fur??? Do they run up to it, rub it and examine the fibers?I think only endangered animals would be a valid excuse to hand a kid these flyers...like tigers and such...mink...(removed) is a mink anyway? Arn't they like little weasels? They definately don't seem endangered to me.Also, why don't they go after the coat manufacturers instead of the costumers, after all, the coat companies are the ones making the coats.

[SGT]

Yes, I am aware than Humans are technically 'animals.' I personally put substantially more value on a human life than an animal life. We can just agree to disagree I guess. Everyone has the freedom to make their own choices. I just think bringing an innocent child into a battle over fur is the wrong way to go.

[Charlievibe]

Quote, originally posted by Salsa! »I am a member of PETA and I don't agree with your comments!And I don't NEED a life, but some people would gain in letting some animals live!!!I knew you were a good guy Salsa!, I just didn't realize how good of a guy you are. Thank you for standing up for the animals - we need more men like you in this world!!!Quote, originally posted by SGT »Animals are just that, animals and they will never compare to the value of a human life in my opinion. ... I personally put substantially more value on a human life than an animal life. You know, I have to take exception to that comment. I have met a lot of humans who don't compare in value to my animals. Explain to me why men like Charles Manson, Ted Bundy, John Wayne Gacey, Lee Boyd Malvo, David Berkowitz, Albert Fish etc are more valuable than an animal? These men would kill you (and some would eat you) without a second thought. So they are more valuable to you? You can't make exceptions, either they are or they aren't. I realize that is your opinion and you are allowed to have it. But I am allowed to have mine as well. And yes, we are going to disagree on this topic.

[SGT]

Quote, originally posted by Charlievibe »You know, I have to take exception to that comment. I have met a lot of humans who don't compare in value to my animals. Explain to me why men like Charles Manson, Ted Bundy, John Wayne Gacey, Lee Boyd Malvo, David Berkowitz, Albert Fish etc are more valuable than an animal? These men would kill you (and some would eat you) without a second thought. So they are more valuable to you? You can't make exceptions, either they are or they aren't. I have to agree with you 100% here in regard to the serial killers, they are trash. Sure there are some humans that are nothing but garbage. I am not talking about the exceptions here, because yes there ARE exceptions. We are talking the norm. What about the rabid pit bull that mauls a child for sport. That is not an example of the entire animal population, it is an exception. In the cases that you mention I agree those humans nothing more than rabid 'animals' and as such should be put down, humanely of course.

[Stang2Vibe]

Ok, I've made the mistake of standing by and letting the secular humanists tilt the scales of this thread a little too heavily in their favor.If others can weigh in on this, than so can I. Please don't mistakenly take me for forcing my views, knowlege, and understanding upon others. But if you had lived through things that I lived through, saw the things that I saw, and had taken advantages of certain opportunities as I have, you would certainly understand where I am coming from and how I know what I know. Please keep these things in mind before you decide to personally attack me or the truths that I have come to recognize.First of all, I am not of just the "opinion", but of the CONVICTION that humans and animals are not on the same level in this world. The classification of human beings as "animals" I find somewhat offensive, but I can accept that it is a classification made for scientific purposes of the grouping of living things only. That doesn't bother me, and I could care less if humans were labeled as humans, animals, fungi, whatever word you want to use. However, we are not one in the same with animals. This does not, however, grant humankind the right to abuse and mistreat animals. I happen to love dogs. I've had several in my family since I was a baby. I've considered each one of them as a sort of member of my family, but I never put them on the same plane as human beings. Whether they are what we consider "good" or "bad" human beings makes no difference. This is all tied in with my religious convictions. Humankind was created solely and unequivocally by the hand of God. So were animals. So was everything else, tangible and intangible, that one can possibly encounter in this world. Animals were entrusted by God into the stewardship of human beings. They were given to us to serve many purposes; to provide companinship, labor, and food among other things. They are not ours, though, and those who abuse them will have to answer to their ultimate owner at some point for treating them wrongly. However, animals are not on the same level as human beings because they were not created with souls, this is the key difference that makes humans uniquely different from all of the rest of creation. You are free to disagree with and/or to not believe what I have written here, but you had better be right, because you will have to answer for that belief one day. I, however, strive to live my life so that at the end of my days in this world, I will hear the voice of our Creator say to me, "well done, my faithful servant", as He has promised in His word. And, no, I do not think that this makes me "better" than anyone else.As for the attempt to place certain (or all) animals above humans who have done tradgically horrific things, I have this to say. No matter how horrible a person is or how many terrible atrocities they have committed, they are still not able to be placed below animals. To feel this way is a human view, and is a very natural thing for us to want to do, but it still does not make it so. Those horrible people who were mentioned earlier are still created by God and will be loved by Him should they seek His forgiveness in earnest before they die (or died). Humankind can judge the body, but not the soul of a fellow human being. We weren't given this power. We are reminded of this if we recall when Jesus, as He hung on the cross, told the convicted murderer hanging on the cross next to Him "this day, you will be with Me in paradise". As this man hanging next to Him was dying, he accepted Jesus as his savior and sincerely sought God's forgiveness for the terrible things he had done wrong, and therefore, he was saved. This applies to all humans at all times, regardless of how large or small the bad things we have done are. Humans alone were given what has commonly come to be known as "free will" and that is why humans are different from animals. Why it is this way, I do not know, as I did not create it that way. Questions of why this is will have to be taken up with He who is greater than us all when we are granted the opportunity to do so.

[Stang2Vibe]

Oh thank God. I was beginning to think you might have lost it, Salsa.Quote, originally posted by Salsa! »Although I must say I sometimes love PETA members.... Last February, 2 female PETA protesters shed their clothes on the Rideau Canal (world's longest oudoor skating rink). Nice pictures on the news.... here's a link... but no pics (what a shame)Actress Dominique Swain has done this as well, as she has posed nude for PETA posters that protest the wearing of fur.

[SGT]

Here is a link to the flier from Peta's website..http://www.furisdead.com/momfur.html

[Merzbow]

That's a good point Stang. I don't believe in god or anything in relation...I am mostly Buhdist mixed with my own theories. However your arguement makes perfect sense If you believe god made us and animals it would only make sense that the animals were given to us by him do use as we like.If you go way back in the bible to Adam and Eve I think is the story... I'm not too acute to the specific biblical details but if I'm not mistaken, Adam and Eve are given animals by god to provide food and what ever other use they need them for...

[fuel4soul]

I'm not going to turn it into a religious battle, Nobody needs that. But back to the topic, What does PETA stand for? They remind of the group that was in that movie 28 days later, anyone ever see that?

[ragingfish]

Quote, originally posted by fuel4soul »What does PETA stand for?People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals

[lordyogi]

honestly many of the groups that protest for the "betterment" of mankind and thinking that they will help people by their decisions do more harm than good. Greenpeace is one of the worst acting on emotion and not fact. Years ago in florida they protested having controlled fires in the everglades saying it was going to destroy the habitat, but in actuality the fires happened normally and actually helped get rid of the suffocating sludge and flora on the surface. it just happened that the fires got a little outta control, but all in all it was a good decision. the problem with almost all of these activist groups is they act with a pure emotional reasoning, and go with their gut instinct far too often and dont have the complete facts as to what real reasons are. many of the groups protest oil drilling off-shore, but many of the new wells are safer than if they were un-tapped, because much of the oil under the ocean seeps out anyway. they just need thier facts straight.my $ 0.02yogi

[Charlievibe]

Quote, originally posted by Stang2Vibe »As for the attempt to place certain (or all) animals above humans who have done tradgically horrific things, I have this to say. No matter how horrible a person is or how many terrible atrocities they have committed, they are still not able to be placed below animals. To feel this way is a human view, and is a very natural thing for us to want to do, but it still does not make it so. Those horrible people who were mentioned earlier are still created by God and will be loved by Him should they seek His forgiveness in earnest before they die (or died). Humankind can judge the body, but not the soul of a fellow human being. We weren't given this power. We are reminded of this if we recall when Jesus, as He hung on the cross, told the convicted murderer hanging on the cross next to Him "this day, you will be with Me in paradise". As this man hanging next to Him was dying, he accepted Jesus as his savior and sincerely sought God's forgiveness for the terrible things he had done wrong, and therefore, he was saved. This applies to all humans at all times, regardless of how large or small the bad things we have done are. Humans alone were given what has commonly come to be known as "free will" and that is why humans are different from animals. Why it is this way, I do not know, as I did not create it that way. Questions of why this is will have to be taken up with He who is greater than us all when we are granted the opportunity to do so.Stang, I am glad that someone brought in the religous aspect of this whole arguement. When I mentioned my arguement about the bad people being less than some animals I know last night to my mom, she said what you just said, that God loves even the bad people and I need to remember that. I do agree with you that ultimately, as you said earlier, we will all have to answer to our creator for what we have done. I have to remind myself that fact.Personally, I feel that animals have little animal souls. This is obviously my own personal feeling and no one will ever change my mind about that.I do thank you for opening up my arguement and pulling it apart and making sense of the whole thing.

[drunkenmaxx]

would a bear or fox not wear us as a coat if they could? would the bear not attack and possibly eat us if it wanted?

[drunkenmaxx]

ok...

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[Stang2Vibe]

Silver---this info doesn't come to light because it doesn't fit into the environmentalists' agenda. Facts like this will be buried (pardon the cemetary pun) as long as possible, then when they surface, they will attempt to dismiss them with lame excuses. Thanks for revealing this little bit of factual insight.

[Stang2Vibe]

Quote, originally posted by Tom »but if someone gives your child one of these flyers, it doesn't seem like it should warrant a violent physical retaliation, no matter what time of year it is.Tom, I agree with you that sending a message like this is totally uncalled for, and I agree with the others who said that the protesters should primarily target the manufacturers. What good does it do to do this to small children? They can't buy the coats.I'm sorry, but I have to disagree about retaliating against these nutballs. I don't have children, so what I posted was technically hypothetical. But if I did have a child (or children), protecting them from harm of all sorts to the best of my ability would be the number one priority in my life. Handing a small child something like this is mentally damaging and distressing, and I would equate this act to the protester walking up to my kid and kicking them as hard as they could right in the head, as children's minds are not equipped to deal with this sort of thing. If they have a problem with something that I'm doing or wearing, they have absolutely NO right whatsoever to take it out on my kid. I don't know if you're a parent or not, but if you are or were, I'm sure that you wouldn't take kindly to an adult walking up to your little kid and kicking them in the head. I doubt that you'd respond to this by saying to them "now, now Mr./Ms. protestor, kicking my child in the head is not an appropriate behavior!" I know I sure wouldn't. If someone is going to go out of their way and infringe on my rights and the rights of my child in such a heinous and egregious manner, they should fully expect to pay a very dear price for doing so. I am generally against zero-tolerance policies, but in this case, I have a personal zero-tolerance policy for people intentionally causing harm to my child. Adults should never behave this way toward children, and when that line is crossed with me, they can expect to pay the price.As for the Native Americans and the buffalo, I believe that many tribes considered the buffalo sacred. This is part of the reason why they used every possible part of the animal that they could. They were appalled to see the European settlers come in and senselessly slaughter entire heards of buffalo and just leave the carcasses to rot.

[Stang2Vibe]

Quote, originally posted by Charlievibe »Stang, I am glad that someone brought in the religous aspect of this whole arguement. When I mentioned my arguement about the bad people being less than some animals I know last night to my mom, she said what you just said, that God loves even the bad people and I need to remember that. I do thank you for opening up my arguement and pulling it apart and making sense of the whole thing.Your are quite welcome. I am very glad if I was able to relate this better to you in some way. I'm even happier that this began a dialogue between you and your mom on the subject and that she was able to shed some light on this for you. I feel that I should even take this one step further and remind you that God did not humble Himself so greatly as to become a human to witness to those who already knew and followed Him, but He came for those who did not believe or had been led astray. That is the miracle of Jesus' work and teaching.And I actually was fully expecting to get totally blasted for my tying this in to my religious beliefs. Go figure? But I truly hope that you will continue to seek God's truth through His word. Sounds like He has opened up your heart and mind a little more to what He has to say to you. I don't know where you stand in your personal walk with Christ, and I'm certainly not prying, but I'd be willing to bet that He made a soft spot in your heart for animals for a purpose. Part of that purpose may have been a way to draw you nearer to Him. Seems that He certainly got your attention, just be aware that He may be calling on you in a unique way for a reason right now. It has been my experience that God's communication with me tends to come in "waves" of events; that is one way that I know it is Him communicating with me. Keep up the conversation with your mom as well, as she seems to be well grounded in her faith. He may be working through her as well to try and reach you. Be open to the possibility that he may be calling you nearer right now, for the Bible has told us that "if today you hear his voice, harden not your heart". I cannot speak for God or tell you what his intentions are for you, but trust that His work, timing, and methods are perfect and will not mislead you. I'll pray for you and your mom that if He is calling you in some way, that you will be open to receiving that message. It's funny how you will often find Him when and where you would least expect to.Quote, originally posted by Charlievibe »Personally, I feel that animals have little animal souls. This is obviously my own personal feeling and no one will ever change my mind about that.This may very well be true and actually is often debated among very well known devout people. The best answer that I have come up with on this is that the Bible is unclear on what happens to animals, especially the ones we love and who love us back. As of yet, nobody has really come up with a concrete, supportable answer for this. However, given the great joy and happiness and love that many of us feel associated with our pets, I find it hard to believe that God would not include them in some way in the perfection of Heaven where love is so integral. Maybe it is just one of His little surprises that He has waiting for us when we get there!

[redlava]

Don't those people realize that if the rabbits had opposable thumbs they would do the same thing to us. We have to get them before they get us. Most PETA people are way over the top, and doing things like that just shows how desperite they are to get a new crop of people involved. 97% of the poputation knows they are full of crap, and the only way to get people involved is to force parents to tell little Billy and Sue why they had to kill a little bunny rabbit. People think the cigarette companys are bad when it comes to poisioning the minds of our youth. Surprised they didn't do this around Easter and tell the kids that their mom is wearing the Easter Bunny.

[fuel4soul]

Don't give them any ideas...