Lawsuit on GM Dex-Cool anti-freeze

[Flip-Side]

Found an interesting bit of info on Dex-Cool when I was searching for an extended mile coolant. Seems all the engine problems gm has been having may be from their special coolant eating them away. UPDATE: It is NOT advised to mix Dex-Cool and standard coolant. The 03' Vibe comes with standard ethylene glycol coolant, so do NOT use dex-cool. Please check out the links below if you have, or have added Dex-Cool Anti-Freeze! http://www.nbc4.tv/team4reports/2369813/detail.html http://www.injuryboard.com/view.cfm/Topic=1095 http://www.performancempg.com/lubricationnews1.htm http://www.geocities.com/b_gillie/dexcool_problems.html Dex-Cool Experiences Problems Dexcool is a formulated antifreeze/coolant used in over thirty-four million vehicles sold by General Motors. Used by GM since 1996 in most car and light truck models, Dexcool is manufactured and distributed by ChevronTexaco, Equilon and ChevronTexaco Global Lubricants.Although Dexcool is marketed to last 5 years or 150,000 miles, consumers say the product is defective and damages vehicles. According to reports, Dexcool has been linked to corroded and clogged radiators and radiator caps, eroded water pumps, rotten radiator hoses, leaky cooling system gaskets, chronic overheating and engine damage.If your car has been damaged because of Dexcool, it may be important for you to contact an attorney who can help you protect your legal rights. Please keep in mind that there may be time limits within which you must commence suit.

[scherry2]

I had a 1998 blazer that had dex-cool had it in the shop 8 times in 1 year for a clogged heater core. nothing but trouble. ....traded it in on a new malibu.

[Raven]

I have a '99 GMC Sierra SLT. No problem yet with 110,000 km. My '93 GMC did use a bit of oil which started early in it's life. The '93 was a 5.7l and the'99 is a 5.3l Vortec.

[Sub-Vibe-R]

My father has a Montana. This car has 40 000km (25 000 miles) and he had to change the gasket of the motor head twice.....

[Flip-Side]

quote: Also seen that the Chevy and GMC Trucks have been using oil.Another reason if I buy another truck, it will be a Tundra. If you look at the second link I posted, it also addresses what is causing burning excess oil in the newer chevys. GM Trucks Experience Excess Oil Consumption Fast lube operators are reporting a significant number of GM pickup trucks manufactured between 1999 and 2002 coming in for service with very low oil levels. GM technical service bulletin TSB 01-06-01-029B reports the problems may be related to faulty PCV valve. If a significant volume of oil can be found in the vacuum hose leading off the PCV, a new PCV valve is required. Specific vehicles affected are Chevrolet Avalanches, Suburbans, Silverados and Tahoes: Cadillac Escalades and Escalade EXTs: and GMC Denalis, Sierras, Suburbans and Yukons equipped with 4.8L, 5.3L or 6.0L V8 engines.

[drunkenmaxx]

maybe the design department is smoking something that looks like a rock...i bet that's what they are talking about

[philndz]

wait....am i confused or do we have dexcool in the vibe? should we get rid of it? and if we do have it then why do we have it b/c we are driving toyotas...not gm vehicles?i think the spare coolant i bought for my car was the recommended dexcool.....i havent used it yet.

[Flip-Side]

quote:i think the spare coolant i bought for my car was the recommended dexcool.....i havent used it yet.Well, I have done some more looking and found some sources that say simply not to mix dex-cool and standard anti-freeze. You are suppose to be able to mix them, and it will simply just reduce the life-span of the coolant. But it seems dex-cool has issues with mixing.Others have also noted that dex-cool will leave deposits if the system ever runs low because it leaves precipitates (solids) behind if air gets into the system. Here is the GM TSB for Dex-Cool. Thats right...a TSB.http://forums.vmag.com/suvsuburban0402/ ... /1665.html Vehicles equipped with DEX-COOL® coolant, which may have been operated for extended periods of time with a low coolant level, usually in excess of 32,000 km (20,000 mi), may be susceptible to the formation of a rust-like material in the cooling system. So far from what I've seen...if you have dex-cool already, do not mix with any other antifreeze and make sure to keep it topped off. Might be the mixing, and low levels that is causing problems. Sorry if I freaked anyone out, I just wanted to state what I found and see what others have to say about it. http://www.penray.com/bulletins/dexcool.htm The concern with mixing comes from the fact that there are very different chemical inhibitor packages in use. Most leading technologies will work very well when used as intended, typically at 50% in good quality water. If the coolants become mixed with DEXCOOL, however, one study showed a possible aluminum corrosion problem in certain situations. The other question is a concern for dilution of the protection packages. At what mix is the there too little of either inhibitor to protect the engine? As a precaution, both GM and Caterpillar instruct that contaminated systems must be maintained as if they contained only conventional coolant.

[Flip-Side]

quote:do we have dexcool in the vibe? I don't have my vibe over here, so I can't go check. If someone could check to see if the coolant is either orange/pink(dex-cool) or green (standard), it would help out a lot.

[engine1]

Its always interesting to see where the info is coming from. First link is from a law firm, second is Amsoil, third has some legitimate claims but the guest book is filled with problems totally unrelated to the cooling system! If GM says use a certain product then they must assume liabilty within the warrantee period for any damage caused by their insistance of the forementioned product. Also seems correct that out of 34,000,000 vehicles that there is going to be an "acceptable" failure rate, eventhough no company would admit it. In this case if it was just 1% that would still mean 340,000 vehicles, but it is more likely to be a higher rate, probably 3-4%. Just some points to ponder!

[Sub-Vibe-R]

quote:do we have dexcool in the vibe? I don't have my vibe over here, so I can't go check. If someone could check to see if the coolant is either orange(dex-cool) or green (standard), it would help out a lot.Vibe does not use Dexcool. It is standard engine coolant.I receive a service manual from GM who sais that all GM product use DexCool and need to be remplaced at 5 years /240 000km except for the Pontiac Vibe and Chevy Tracker (which are built by Toyota and Suzuki). For those model the engine coolant need to be remplaced every 2 years or 60 000km

[Flip-Side]

quote: Its always interesting to see where the info is coming from. First link is from a law firm, second is Amsoil, third has some legitimate claims but the guest book is filled with problems totally unrelated to the cooling system! Just some points to ponder!Good points indeed Engine1! So I went looking again and found NBC already did a story about the problems with dex-cool. http://www.nbc4.tv/team4reports/2369813/detail.html

[engine1]

Thanks for posting that report, I always like to get all the info I can.Its funny, I sell autoparts and Dex-Cool every single day! I find more and more people don't even know even know that they have a different coolant in the vehicle. I have personally seen what happens when you mix conventional(green) and Dex(red) together. You get a thick brown/red sludge, and combined with the natural electrolysis that occurs in the cooling system it quickly deteriorates the system. Now, again from a guy who sells parts, I have had people purchase green even after the explanation just because it is cheaper. Now not everybody is any idiot but now that todays engines are so complicated most people do not do their own maitenence nor should they, but listening to the dealer or having a good relationship with a qualified parts guy can save you alot of money and grief down the road! And if you have it in writing from the dealer, like in your owners manual, you will always something to fall back on. And if you are really worried about it get the cooling system flushed and replaced with conventional coolant!

[Flip-Side]

quote:Vibe does not use Dexcool. It is standard engine coolant.Thanks Sub-Vibe-R! As for now, I will not be changing to an extended life anti-freeze afterall. After reading all this, I will simply be sticking with the regular coolant with flush and change when neccesary.

[scherry2]

quote: And if you are really worried about it get the cooling system flushed and replaced with conventional coolant!been there done that and my heater core still clogged, had the heater core replaced and it still got clogged. thank god it was all under the warranty of the first time I brought it in to the dealer for no heat or It would have cost me more than the first $1000.00 I had to stick into it for no heat. I for one don't have alot of faith in dealerships. not when I had to go all winter with no heat and taking it back every month for the same problem. I know that the repairman has to follow a certain repair procedure, ie: change thermostate first. and then when the customer comes back move on to the next step like backflush system ect. ect. its to bad that repairmen can't second guess the computer and probably fix it right the first time. this is a sore spot for me sorry i ranted (and i work for GM)

[engine1]

Hey rant away! You're right too bad every thing has to picked from the computer nowadays but gotta keep the engineers busy right!

[red]

i think every engine maker has some issues concerning their products...even vaunted m-b is not prone from this....toyota had issues w/sludge in engines and i'm sure that you can find sites that will expose more issues...i've heard about the oil usage on the gm v-8 during the past couple of years...i thought that a shop manager friend of mine said it had to do with the design of the engine itself...my 4.3l vortec s-10 used to smoke on start up due to a design flaw in the valve guides but rarely used any oil in between changes...to be honest i'm worried about having a toyo auto in my car.

[NSimkins]

quote:Vibe does not use Dexcool. It is standard engine coolant.I noticed my coolant is teetering near the Low level - also it looks like it is pink (maybe orange) in color.What exactly should I be buying to fill it back up to an acceptable level? Anything in particular I should look for? (coolant-talk is somewhat foreign to me)

[Sub-Vibe-R]

quote:Vibe does not use Dexcool. It is standard engine coolant.I noticed my coolant is teetering near the Low level - also it looks like it is pink (maybe orange) in color.What exactly should I be buying to fill it back up to an acceptable level? Anything in particular I should look for? (coolant-talk is somewhat foreign to me)From the "Total warranty, maintenance and owner assistance information" box given by my dealer: Cooling System service: every 240 000km or 60 month. Except Tracker and Vibe every 50 000km or 30 months.From the Vibe owner manual page 7-44:Engine coolant: 50/50 mixture of clean, drinkable water (preferable distilled) and good quality Ethylene Gloycol Base Coolant (GM part # U.S. 1052753, in Canada 993089 or equivalent) conforming to GM Specification 1825M or approved recycled coolant conforming to GM Specification 1825M.So, buy some Prestone engine coolant and put 50/50 pretone/distilled water in a galon and fill up you rad.

[NSimkins]

quote:So, buy some Prestone engine coolant and put 50/50 pretone/distilled water in a galon and fill up you rad.Thanks! You can me on the head for not looking in the owner's manual too.

[Sub-Vibe-R]

No appologies Nick. You're not obligated to sleep with you owner manual....

[philndz]

Why is it pink? I havent looked at mine but i think i remember it being that color....not sure. Nick said pink, maybe orange....im just thinking that if some vibes had dexcool put in them then you wouldnt want to mix it w/ regular coolant!!!!

[joatmon]

In http://forums.genvibe.com/zerothread?id=2962, it seemed like the concensus was to use pink dexcool. Here it is to use common green stuff. I'm confused. Is only dexcool pink/red/orange? I figure if I get it flushed I can put in whatever I want, but if I need to top it off, I want to make sure I put the same stuff in that's already in there. Aside from color, is there any way for the average driveway mechanic to tell the difference between the two types?

[philndz]

quote: I'm confused?ditto

[Flip-Side]

I'm confused?dittoAnd Rightfully So! The coolant in the vibe is Toyota Red anti-freeze. NOT COMPATABLE WITH Dex-Cool, which is made by GM. It is not a simple matter of color matching coolants! Check out this link. http://www.popularmechanics.co...phtml It is confusing, but it states that our coolant is not compatable with GM's orange coolant(Dex-Cool). Toyota Red can be mixed with other coolants, IE Green(only silicate free), or Yellow/Gold(Prestone Ext. Life) but it will affect the life of the original fluid. Supposedly Toyota Red is just silicate-free green coolant with red dye. This is the product found that is in all new toyotas from the factory. Seeing that our cars are toyota, it seems logical this is the red coolant in our cars. http://www.toyota.com/html/sho....html I for one, will be getting some of the Toyota Red antifreeze for top-off and changes. Probly from a dealer if I can't get it from the store.

[threekrows]

To add to the confusion,here's what the service info says:Engine Coolant The OEM coolant that comes in the Pontiac Vibe is an orange colored ethylene glycol based coolant. General Motors Service and Parts Operations does not offer an orange colored ethylene glycol based coolant. DO NOT mix the OEM orange colored ethylene glycol based coolant with green colored ethylene glycol based coolant when adding coolant to the system or when servicing the vehicle's cooling system. Mixing the orange and green coolants will produce a brown coolant which may be a customer dissatisfier. When ADDING coolant to the vehicle or when servicing the vehicle's cooling system, use orange colored Extended Life DEX-COOL® Coolant, P/N 12346290 (Canadian P/N 10953464). It is recommended to completely drain, flush and refill the cooling system every 50,000 km (30,000 mi) or 24 months, whichever occurs first, using a 50/50 mixture of clean water (preferably distilled) and green colored ethylene glycol base coolant, P/N 1052753 (Canadian P/N 993089) or equivalent, which conforms to GM Specification 1825M, or an approved recycled coolant which conforms to GM Specification 1825M.

[Flip-Side]

Quote, originally posted by threekrows »When ADDING coolant to the vehicle or when servicing the vehicle's cooling system, use orange colored Extended Life DEX-COOL® Coolant, P/N 12346290 (Canadian P/N 10953464). It is recommended to completely drain, flush and refill the cooling system every 50,000 km (30,000 mi) or 24 months, whichever occurs first, using a 50/50 mixture of clean water (preferably distilled) and green colored ethylene glycol base coolant, P/N 1052753 (Canadian P/N 993089) or equivalent, which conforms to GM Specification 1825M, or an approved recycled coolant which conforms to GM Specification 1825M. Man...GM is so stupid! I just checked the toyota website for the coolant service schedule for the matrix as well. It is the same as the vibe...every 30,000 miles it must be changed. It is Toyota's red coolant. That is NOT Dex-Cool!I have also posted that link that SAYS not to use dex-cool on toyota's!Our car is all toyota as far as under the hood. The matrix has the same coolant. The coolant is NOT Dex-Cool! It should not be mixed! It is that simple! ARG! Wheres a GM rep...I got a bone to pick when they say to use their product, just to make money, even though it is not right for our car! And heres yet another report on problems with Dex-Cool. This time by ABC News. http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/new....html

[Flip-Side]

Quote, originally posted by threekrows »The OEM coolant that comes in the Pontiac Vibe is an orange colored ethylene glycol based coolant. General Motors Service and Parts Operations does not offer an orange colored ethylene glycol based coolant. Well, I e-mailed both Pontiac and Toyota on this, and asked specifically what coolant was in the cars from the factory. Then they simply mailed me back a quote from the Vibe/Matrix manual. I for one would take advice from toyota on this, and not GM and their dex-cool monstrosity.Thank you for contacting Toyota Motor Sales, U.S.A., Inc.As per your 2003 Matrix Owner's Manual - Section 8, we recommend the use of Toyota Long Life Coolant or equivalent. The Toyota Long Life Coolant is red in color.Should you choose not to use the Toyota Long Life Coolant, the equivalent should be an ethylene-glycol type coolant in order to provide proper corrosion protection of aluminium components. Do not use alcohol type antifreeze or plain water alone.

[rubberman]

My 98 GP I had the rad flushed and coolant change just like any other car that i hav owned about every 2 yrs.Theres nothing that will last forever just like there trans oil.

[scherry2]

this is getting off topic. the lawsuit deals with GM 6 cylinder motors, not Toyota 4 cylinders.