Bad dealer experience today :-(

[Craigmri]

Took our three week old Vibe to Pontiac today to get a couple of things addressed. First wast the dome light that didnt operate when the front passanger door was opened(worked fine with all the others doors). The second was the high speed "Buffeting" problem I've been complaining about.Made an appointment the day before and I got to the dealer 15 minutes before my appointment. No I'm not naive enough to think the dealer would get right on it but I do expect activity within an hour of arriving for my appointment. Two hours later they finally get on the Dome light and took the guy 20 minutes and connected the wire that was missed at the factory. Next he takes it for a test drive to see about the buffeting. He arrives back to the dealer and he pulls it right on the alignment rack. I think to myself..."Cool he thinks he might have found something ". I want the guy try to attack the wheel alignment contraptions to each of the four wheels and cringe just knowing my pristine 17" OEM alloys are getting butchered. 45 minutes later he pulls the car out and parks it and says..."Alignment was perfect and didnt need any adjustment". Before I go see the clerk to get my keys I inspect the wheels and I was right....He scratched the **** out of them. I got the service manager over and he spent 30 minutes explaining to me that their was nothing they can do to prevent the alignment device from scratching the wheel edge. I was livid but I tried to be reasonable. One wheel had a new gash in the spoke. I knew he mechanic did this cause I watched the alignment device fall off that wheel when he was working on it. I demanded that wheel be replaced and the other three be touched up my a professional. He agreed. I got home and called Pontiac Customer service(GM) and shared my experience as well as the "Buffeting problem" They are supposed to call me back tomorrow with a response. Been a bad day...Thanks for listening.

[redlava]

Too bad about you experience. As far as the buffeting goes I have that problem as well. I think it is just because the vibe has a large cross-section. And when the wind is coming from the side it can push it around pretty easy. It is annoying, but I don't think anything can be done about it.

[joatmon]

Give 'em hell!

[threekrows]

what about moving the cross-bars?(just a thought)

[QUIKAG]

Craig,I'm not kidding, I have a C5 Vette, in addition to the Vibe, that I run over 100mph frequently and I've seen 175mph late one night. The high speed stability on the Vette is incredible.So, I get my Vibe and I'm thinking it's a smooth ride, but gets knocked around a bit with crosswind on the highway and doesn't feel all that stable.FIX? Lowering springs!! I have TRD lowering springs on the Vibe along with my factory 17 inch wheels/Dunlop tires and the high speed stability is very, very imnpressive. With the stiffer/lower springs, it made a very noticeable difference in high-speed stability.I got mine off Ebay for like $130 NEW. You might be hard pressed to find a deal like that, but look around and you can get some cheap. Make sure you or someone you know has a bit of experience swapping the springs out. It's not hard, but it's a bit tedious. Well worth the time, effort and money though!!Good luck!

[Craigmri]

Quik,Thanks for the spring advice. I will sonsider this in the future. One of the things we liked about the Vibe was the stance it has. Lowering it would change the personality a little but who knows maybe for the better right?

[QUIKAG]

The TRD springs are rebadged Eibach Pro-Kits, I believe. They lower the car about 1.25 inches, which isn't much at all. There is still plenty of gap between the fender and the tires, just not as much. It looks a bit more sporty and less like an SUV, which I found to be a plus.Good luck, let us know what you end up doing!

[18stars]

If you want to avoid modifying your Vibe with springs and the like.....buy an old 1970's VW bus and drive it for a month or so....all the sudden the Vibe buffeting in the wind will seem less significant!! Just kidding -- I'm not discounting that you may have an actual problem with your particular car but various models do differ greatly in this respect. Good luck. Too bad about the wheels, there's no excuse for that. Its good that you stood up for yourself and are getting them fixed.

[Reynoma]

Quote, originally posted by 18stars »If you want to avoid modifying your Vibe with springs and the like.....buy an old 1970's VW bus and drive it for a month or so....all the sudden the Vibe buffeting in the wind will seem less significant!! Now that's funny.

[Craigmri]

Called Pontiac and started a case file. Basically the end result is Pontiac isnt going to bat for me for the other three wheels that the dealer wants to touch up with paint. They basically re-read me the same crap the dealer did about Alignment devices do cause this wheel scratching. I'm not finished with Pontiac just yet however. The fact is I didnt authorize them to do any such alignment check and they never mentioned they were going to do this either much less that doing such a test could potentially damage the rims. So, I'm gonna be persistant untill they make a happy customer weather they like it or not

[engine1]

Actually even the best aligning equipment in the world ie. Hunter doesn't make a protective tip to cover the aligment heads. The problem is that mordern rim design is such that it provides some problems 1. very little surface on the edge of the rim forces the clamps to have to be designed very small yet sturdy to support the head 2. Some rims have almost no clearance between the rim and the rubber so again a very thin but stong clamp is needed. 3. A rubber pad would not work; too thick, plastic no good either because it does not grip metal well and would slip off. All of these problems create the need to apply alot of force in order to hold the head on the wheel and some marring will occur; it is inevitable. There is one thing a shop can do to prevent, that is prevent not guarantee no marring, is to use a piece of felt between the head clamps and the wheel. It allows for secure fastening of the head but helps not to mark the edges of the rim. Until someone designs a new way to hold the head of the aligner to the wheel you will have to accept this as a neccesary evil. However some techs are a little clumsy and the dealer should cough up for the damaged beyond repair wheel and at least get the marks polished of the others. You should know the dealer was only trying to diagnose the problem you presented him with by checking the alignment, a standard procedure when you are dealing with a drivability problem such as this. He did not need your permission to do this, the time alone to check it cost him his techs time and time lost on the alignment hoist not doing paid repairs, not many shops would do this. In my own experience I have found that in a cross wind the Vibe can be a bit of a kite, it seems to offer alot of surface area to the wind. I hope you get your rims fixed and the dealer helps you out, but remember the dealer wants desperatetly to make you happy so you will come back and buy another car from them, they also try to ensure that after you ground the ***t out of them for a deal on the car in the first place that they don't lose every bit of profit dealing with issues they may not be responsible for. Just so you know I work for a company that sells aligners, balancers, brakes, plugs blah blah blah so I have seen the damage that these produsts can do in the wrong hands, but keep in mind most shops(even dealers) really want your buisness so be patient but persistent.

[engine1]

I know what you mean but if you look at the edge of some rims today there is almost nothing to grab on to. The owner of one tire shop I deal with had to wait two weeks to get some tips special order from Hunter to do the rims on his own truck! The tools are still catching up to the trendy parts!

[joatmon]

We all jump on the dealers and GM service departments here. I tend to dislike and distrust any service shop, whether it's a dealer or not. I won't claim to know what remedy is reasonable for the wheel scratches, I imagine that would vary from one owner to another. It's too bad that it happened on Craigmri's brand new car. I wouldn't blame the service department for trying to check the alignment, I would have been more upset if I took it in for that kind of problem and they refused to check the alignment.The Vibe does swim a bit in crosswinds. Craigmri's original thread about the problem he took it in for was High speed wandering, where he said he felt it was more related to driving at speeds over 75mph (120 km/h) than the "light winds".I almost never hit over 75, so I don't know if mine wanders like his does.

[ragingfish]

I frequently travel at 75, 80, 85, once in a while even 90 mph...never have drifting problems...though I tend to find it difficult to maintain control at those speeds, but who's to say if it's the car, the tires, the wheels, or something being wrong.It doesn't worry me, so I'm not going to address it with the dealer unless it gets worse.But I did find that my tires were underinflated, and when properly inflating them to 32 psi, the car seems to handle much better.

[Vibe Rater]

Nobody should ever have to choose between scratched and chipped wheels or a proper front end allignment. It should be simple and easy to take any car to any dealer and confidently request an alignment, without giving a single thought to your new wheels. If that's not the case, the entire automotive service industry is a bunch of incompetent, inbred buffoons, unworthy of our business. The only reason for any technician to ever scratch anything on any vehicle is blatant thuggery and he/she should never be permitted to touch anything except maybe a can opener ever again.

[engine1]

Ever though of switching to decaf? Do you really believe what you are saying?

[Vibe Rater]

As a consumer, that is what we must demand. There are many ways to prevent scratches on a car while it's being worked on, and if a car is scratched in the shop, it can only be negligence. (I've never touched coffee).

[engine1]

Instead of being a demanding, loud, obnoxious, rude customer you should try and be a courteous, patient and understanding person instead and I guarantee that people will go out of their way to help and otherwise ensure that you have a pleasant experience. Price and help available is directly related to attitude. Are you an absolute expert who is not fallable, guess what nobodyelse is either. I deal with people with your attitude everyday and i will got out of my way NOT to help them if I can, and laugh at their problems to their face. Try getting a job where you deal with the public all day and you will soon understand that what you give is what you get! The world owes you nothing, remember that! I've said everything I want to about this so I'm goin to end my involvment now, feel free to IM me if you really need to get a reply, but if you walk in screaming, demanding and acting like an (removed) expect to treated as such!

[Craigmri]

Hey folks,Everyone who has responded to this thread has made excellent points on both sides. I consider myself a reasonable person and realize the dealer truly had good intentions trying to solve my new car complaints. I did not buy the car from this servicing dealership yet they still tried to help me. I still feel its reliculous that new wheels get butchered by doing an alignment but the dealer is replacing the worste of the four damaged wheels and the other three are going to be touched up by the dealers body shop. In the end I'm satisfied since the three remaining wheels have the small scratches on the very edge and you really have to look for them. Shouldnt have to happen but like everything else in life.....NOTHINGS PERFECT.

[FusionVGT]

Quote »I've said everything I want to about this so I'm goin to end my involvment now, feel free to IM me if you really need to get a reply, but if you walk in screaming, demanding and acting like an (removed) expect to treated as such!Not owning up to your mistakes and fixing them even if it means a loss is like insulting someone through one of these I can relate post and running. Very limp. Very moist. The fact of the matter is the car didn't go in with touched up wheels and shouldn't come out that way.

[joatmon]

Quote, originally posted by FusionVGT »Not owning up to your mistakes and fixing them even if it means a loss is like insulting someone through one of these I can relate post and running. Very limp. Very moist. The fact of the matter is the car didn't go in with touched up wheels and shouldn't come out that way.So, the dealer scratched the four wheels, one bad enough that they replaced it, and the other three had "small scratches on the very edge and you really have to look for them" which they will touch up. The customer says "In the end I'm satisfied" I don't really see where the comment about not owning up to your mistakes applies, seems like the servce department is trying to do just that. I bet that tech caught a ration of grief from the boss. Depending on the shop, he may have even had to buy the replacement wheel. I cut on the dealers in posts, but if I had to go in I would behave exactly as engine1 suggests. Usually you can get better service if you are courteous. Sometimes it doesn't matter, and you have to be firm and stand up for yourself. Still, I think that this discussion should stay away from name calling, that's not what this site is supposed to be about. to craigmri for watching the tech, seeing the accident, getting the shop to fix it. I probably wouldn't have seen it happen, or even noticed the damage after the fact.

[shibaman]

I had an alighnment done at Les Schwabb and they are real carefull and fast. If you put sway bars and springs on your car it will eliminate most of the problems with wind. I had a problem with my Pontiac dealer so I had a nice talk to the service manager and he was very apolagetic and helpful with me. The dealership has been very good to me since then. You have to firm and profecional. The problem was an idiot service writer who blamed my sqeakey dash on an intake mod and the sand damaged molding on my lowered car ? Idiot!

[Vibe Rater]

Quote, originally posted by joatmon »If I had to go in I would behave exactly as engine1 suggests. Usually you can get better service if you are courteous. I agree, and I too am always courteous and friendly to everyone, not just service techs. I have no idea how anyone would suggest otherwise.

[joatmon]

Good sarcasm , and you're right. I guess I should say that I would try to be courteous, and that usually works, but I tend to get very loud, demanding and rude when people try to take advantage of me.people can't walk all over you if you don't lie down for it.

[FusionVGT]

Quote »I don't really see where the comment about not owning up to your mistakes applies, seems like the servce department is trying to do just that. I bet that tech caught a ration of grief from the boss. Depending on the shop, he may have even had to buy the replacement wheel.It's very possible the tech did catch it from the boss, but is that really a customer's concern? As for not owning up to your mistakes - businesses get away with minimal solutions to problems (to sustain minimal $$$ loss) far too often. Here's a thought, replace the one wheel and completely respray the other three. Extreme? Perhaps, but it get's the customer's wheels back to where they were before the screw up. And just in case someone here has not had an alignment check/adjustment - no you don't have to expect or accept that your wheels may get scratched or gouged.