Vibe/Trix engine question

[FeelTheVibe2004]

Hi folks
Long time reader but new kid on the block.
I'm gonna throw two subjects at once here.
We've had a 2004 Vibe for about 5-6 years...amazing car, love it!
We recently purchased a 2005 Matrix and I know the Vibe & Trix have the same engine...apparently. (Both being around 135000 clicks) but I find that the Toyota engine is far more refined and responsive than it's GM version. It's really day and night...being one year apart, is there any design difference between the two engines? (1ZZ-FE)

Secondly, every winter my check engine on the Vibe keeps turning on when it is very cold and it gives me a PO171 (Too lean) code, and a PO133 (O2 sensor slow response) I use full Synthetic oil and periodically change the air filter & clean the intake yearly and decarbonize as well. But I still think it's not exactly set up as the Matrix one is. Concerning the PO171, I've cleaned the MAF and throttle body multiple times over the winter time. I'm pretty sure the O2 sensor the actual cause of the code but I figured it costs me nothing to try cleaning the MAF. I'm holding off changing the O2 sensor 'cause now that it's warmer outside the check engine is gone. Anyone else get this during the cold season?
That being said, it has never been as smooth as the Matrix , with or without the check engine on)

I apologize for the long post...I always try to keep my questions short, but I also try to give as much info as I can. : )
Thanks for any input.

[ColonelPanic]

The big difference between your '04 and '05 is that the Vibe and Matrix switched to drive by wire throttle for FWD 1ZZ models starting in 2005. 2003-2004 had the old school throttle cable. I will say I have the same complaints about an utter lack of refinement with both '03 1ZZ's I've had experience with. Neither were particularly smooth even when new, especially at idle where they vibrate badly when stopped in drive. I haven't been in a 2005-2008 to see if they run any smoother.

The 1ZZ is notorious for having faulty intake manifold gaskets which can cause a lean condition (P0171.) I don't know if the oxygen sensor code you're also seeing is related, however. There is a Toyota TSB on this for P0171 in subfreezing temperatures which suggests replacing the gasket with a redesigned part. Can't remember the TSB or part numbers but they should show up on a search.

I wasn't at the point where it was throwing any codes but I did have fairly lean fuel trims and cold idle surging at temps below 40F, not to mention an oil leak around the intake manifold (likely from a bad PCV valve which I had already replaced.) The original black gasket was very brittle and ripped apart as I removed it.

The idle and fuel trims are MUCH better with the new gasket. No further oil leakage with the new PCV valve and intake gasket as well.

Replacing the intake gasket isn't a bad job to do and there are youtube videos and a pretty detailed thread over on Toyotanation for how to do it. Definitely go with the new style orange intake gasket if you choose to replace it.

[runningslow]

Do they have same tranny? Both 5 spds or both autos?

My wife's 05 Corolla feels alot more responsive and peppy than my '06 Vibe, but hers is a 5 speed and weighs a few hundred pounds less than my auto Vibe. They both have the same 1ZZ. The automatic they put in these things are terrible. Reliable, but terrible.

[BenWA]

Do they have same tranny? Both 5 spds or both autos?

My wife's 05 Corolla feels alot more responsive and peppy than my '06 Vibe, but hers is a 5 speed and weighs a few hundred pounds less than my auto Vibe. They both have the same 1ZZ. The automatic they put in these things are terrible. Reliable, but terrible.

Yep, same transmissions in the FWDs. AWDs are another beast. I know Toyota made "All Trac" (AWD) Corolla wagons in the early 90s. Not sure if they continued that or not after 93?

The Vibe is taller if I'm not mistaken, so it probably has greater wind resistance than the Corolla sedan. That could be a factor in why an A/T Matrix/Vibe feels "less peppy" than any Corolla/Prizm.

[runningslow]

Do they have same tranny? Both 5 spds or both autos?

My wife's 05 Corolla feels alot more responsive and peppy than my '06 Vibe, but hers is a 5 speed and weighs a few hundred pounds less than my auto Vibe. They both have the same 1ZZ. The automatic they put in these things are terrible. Reliable, but terrible.

Yep, same transmissions (at least in the FWDs, AWDs are another beast).
The Vibe is taller if I'm not mistaken, so it probably has greater wind resistance than the Corolla sedan. That could be a factor in why an A/T Matrix/Vibe feels "less peppy" than any Corolla/Prizm.

I was asking the OP if his Matrix and Vibe had the same tranny. It was just a point of reference that I'm slightly disappointed with the performance of my Vibe vs her Corolla and I'm aware that all three cars had the same tranny options available.

[FeelTheVibe2004]

Thanks for the replies guys.
It's actually more noticeable from a dig, so wind resistance isn't a factor. At highway speeds both cars seem to respond in the same manner.
I haven't had any major problems with rough idling except maybe in extremely cold temperatures, that's when they both jerk and give howl. . But pretty much any car will be affected by vibrations as the engine idles to reach ideal operating temperature. I did a quick propane check around the engine...no significant change in idle speed so I guess my gasket is still intact. As for the height, both are pretty much the same except the Vibe has a roof rack, but like I stated before, resistance from that would affect higher speeds which isn't as much an issue as the acceleration from a start. I've already cleaned and lubed the throttle cable and adjusted the cable tension slightly...my next ''fix'' will probably be to check/switch spark plugs and check timing. Most likely it's perhaps just the gas pedals that are adjusted differently...weight is probably a factor as well. I doubt that any other adjustments will have a significant increase in throttle response. All suggestions/comments are very welcome.

[ehoff121]

Welcome to genvibe!

+1 on the intake manifold gasket replacement. 11 years is a long time for rubber inside an engine...

viewtopic.php?f=12&t=43828&p=500979

You mentioned de-carbonizing annually- I wonder if this could be fouling the O2 sensor?

[FeelTheVibe2004]

Thanks ehoff121
I guess I should look into changing it, but for now I'm not really too worried.

I doubt that the decarbonizing process would do damage to the O2 sensor or any other component such as the cat/exhaust, I just mist a small quantity of regular water into the intake. I used Seafoam once or twice but after some research I opted to go the free water way.

Hope this is permitted.
From one of Youtubes car gurus.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFtp_jmLF3k

This guy is extreme...obviously judgment and caution are always a must when watching these videos.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRif-Zglr5I

The check engine is probably gonna be gone till next winter, once it hits -15 or so.
I'm in the process of shopping for a O2 sensor socket to check/change it eventually.
Thanks again guys.

[vibenvy]

Welcome to GenVibe! Post some pictures of your Vibe and Matrix when you get a chance !

[FeelTheVibe2004]

Gonna try and work on those picks for you guys as soon as it gets nice outside, vibenvy.
Mind you, a clean car looks great in snow as well.
BTW, your picks are great...might have to hire you for mine.

Sorry for the delay in answering/updating my initial post.

I messed around on the net over the weekend, trying to see if I overlooked anything that might help my performance issue and came across
an article that mentioned that low tranny fluid could hinder performance without necessarily showing any signs of slipping.
That reminded me that before winter showed up I had changed my engine oil and filtered my trans fluid. I didn't think that the leftover fluid residue that was left in my pan was much, but in retrospect it could possibly be the root of my problem, so I ended up picking up some more trans fluid and added about a half cup and it seems to have a little more pick up from a start now.
I had checked my levels after my maintenance and all seemed within specs...not an expert, but I assume it was just low enough to affect the pressure in my transmission.
Still intend on switching spark plugs but at least it's more enjoyable to drive knowing that all my horses are there.

[vibenvy]

Gonna try and work on those picks for you guys as soon as it gets nice outside, vibenvy.
Mind you, a clean car looks great in snow as well.
BTW, your picks are great...might have to hire you for mine.

Looking forward to pictures!

A clean car looks great anywhere !

Awww... shucks ! Thanks for the kind words !

Glad to hear your Vibe is behaving better these days !

[FeelTheVibe2004]

You're too modest, lol

I'm a little tempted to add a bit more, just to see if there's more improvement. Seeing that the dipstick doesn't seem to be as accurate it
should be. I'm just worried about overdoing it.
It's so much more fun to drive than it has been in the last months...especially now that most of the snow is gone. Just don't want to push my luck. Picked up some injector cleaner yesterday, I try not to us that too often, but I think now would be a good time to add some.
Going to Joliette (Qc) to my cousin's later, just not sure which car to take. Hopefully it'll be the Vibe.
Keep you guys posted.
Happy Easter everyone.

[lannvouivre]

Did you shift through the gears before checking fluid levels? When an auto goes into a gear, fluid gets pumped into different clutch packs, so if you fill it cold, the measurement will be very inaccurate.

Don't let your car run too lean, your car adjusts your fuel trims richer to compensate and it's really bad to run your engine lean. You can melt your pistons running lean because it raises combustion chambers. It only takes about 30 minutes to do the intake manifold and throttle body gaskets. The parts would be $30 at the most as well. For that reason, you should also check your wires to the front O2 sensor and possibly replace it. It's actually a wideband air/fuel ratio sensor, which costs twice as much, but it's vital that you have one that works properly because that's the reference your computer is using to determine fuel use and timing, etc, when your car is in closed loop.

[FeelTheVibe2004]

Hi lannvouivre
Yup! Put it in all the gears for a few seconds each and let it idle for a minute or two just before checking. I opted not to add anymore and am checking for the recommended spark plugs. You're right, they don't seem all that hard or expensive to change, just need to find some free, undisturbed time. As for running lean...since the outdoor temperature reached above 0 Celsius no check engine has popped up as of yet. I don't travel a long distance to and back from work, so I'm wondering If the engine doesn't tend to leave deposits on my 02 sensors... :/
I tried borrowing a 02 socket from Canadian Tire, but no luck.
I might try with Napa auto parts place next...no point buying one. I might end up getting a spare socket and cut a slit into it, should do the trick.

Thanks for the input lannvouivre.
Dan

[FeelTheVibe2004]

Well, I had a few hours of free time today, so I ended up changing my intake manifold gasket this afternoon.
Wen't remarkably well...no broken clips or lost bolts. I was even surprised to see that the stock gasket was still in decent condition.
I even cleaned out the inside of the manifold and cleaned and polished the 4 ports on the cylinder head.
Really wanted to port and polish the intake but ran out of time on account of rain.
Only noticeable difference is that my idle seems to have dropped from around 800rpm to about 700/750rpm.
Still runs smooth, so no worries. Hope to get a chance to change my oil this Sunday.
I also checked my spark plugs out of curiosity...I was surprised to see that they looked pretty clean.
I was worried about brushing them a little with a soft wire brush on account of the iridium tips, but decided what the heck. Put them back in and tried the Vibe out...no issues.
Man, I wish I could get my hands on a supercharger.

[vibenvy]

Glad to hear everything went smoothly with the intake manifold gasket. Still waiting on those pictures though !

[FeelTheVibe2004]

I know...sorry vibenvy.
I just wanted to heat up the cladding around it to get it back to it's normal darker shade.
I'm really hoping to get a chance this weekend.
Tire shine would do it, but that's just a quick fix. Oddly enough, the oil from peanut butter as well. lol

Sorry about the slow reply guys. :/
I'll make it up. ;D