PSA Frame Rail Rust Pocket interior access floor board

[Derf]

Fixing rusted floor board 2003 -2008 Vibe, not sure if the 09-10 had similar design. Came across an access point to the frame rails that needs attention for anyone living in an area that uses salt. Once the carpet is removed, under the front sound dampening panel are two access panels on each side. Once panels are removed, they allow interior access to the frame rails. Due to the way frame rail is welded, their is a gap that allows water/salt to splash into this interior crevice causing rust. In the pictures you can see how it has rusted the welded seams and around the drain plugs. Under both rear passenger areas is another weld gap where two sections of frame rail come together. Their is a drain plug in the passenger floor board that is close to this seam, which could allow rust preventive product to be dumped into the frame rail.

In the GM catalog they are called Dash Panel Cover. On my Vibe the driver side panels were so bad, the placement tabs had started to rust off. Some GM dealerships show these panels available for $5-$18 each.
Front driver access panels.
Top panel part: . . .88970777 DASH PANEL HOLE COVER, LEFT
Bottom panel part: 88970778 DASH PANEL COVER (same left or right)

vibe_dash_covers_floor_driver.jpg (23.28 KiB) Viewed 4181 times

Front passenger access panels.
Top panel part: . . .88970776 DASH PANEL HOLE COVER, RIGHT
Bottom panel part: 88970778 DASH PANEL COVER

vibe_dash_covers_floor_pass.jpg (25.23 KiB) Viewed 4181 times

On both the passenger and driver side, it appears water/gunk gets trapped in this frame rail compartment. As it tries to evaporate, condensation and splatter collect around these panels, causing rust. The sound dampening material on top helps trap the moisture.

Will post additional pictures of the seam gaps and rear drain plug access.

[vibrologist]

Oh, derf, I am not sure if I wanted to know.......

Sometimes ignorance is bliss.

[Derf]

Good thing I caught this early. Would encourage other owners to check the following spots. Every vehicle has a hidden rust area, left unchecked these will rust for sure.

Top of image is facing toward tire, the engine cross member is to the left. In the middle you can see a gray "line" this is the gap between the cowl panel and the rail beam. This lets water/salt wick into the frame rail cavity and rust. On mine, one I removed the sound deadening material and access panels, I cleaned and primed this interior pocket. The gray line on the image is the paint I applied wicking through the gap to the outside of the vehicle. What makes this worse, being right behind the tire, everything the tire flings off can end up working its way through this gap. Gap exists on both driver and passenger side. On mine the passenger side did not wick paint, but was rusted worse. This could be due to variance on the assembly line among other factors.

vibe_engine_crossmember_gap.jpg (35.4 KiB) Viewed 4148 times

This image shows the gap left when they welded the support piece on the front of the frame rail. The small bright spot is the gap, the larger spot to the right, is where I removed a drain plug from the interior frame rail compartment. The dark spot to the left is a knockout in the frame rail that is missing. There is about a 1/4" opening at the bottom of the support seam on both passenger and driver side. Almost looks like it was designed to have a gap to drain the frame rail cavity. Problem is as items accumulate the gap could get plugged or rust. On my Vibe I made sure to apply enough paint to cover the inside of the cavity, I let is drip out of this opening. I had to prep and fill the knockout hole to keep other gunk from getting in the frame rail. Their are three knockouts in the frame rail, on the passenger side one was missing and two were starting to come loose, the driver side was ok.

Vibe_frame_rail_support_holes.jpg (21.98 KiB) Viewed 4148 times

The frame rail is in several sections. Where the sections meet, it appears they left a gap for ventilation or draining. Trouble is, this area only has primer inside. The lack of additional coatings reduces protection, making it the first place to rust. Toward the middle of the picture you can see a line in the black paint. This is the gap, the bottom and top are welded but both side of the beam are left open.

Vibe_frame_rail_member_gap.jpg (29.67 KiB) Viewed 4148 times

[Nasmfell]

Cost cutting? Salt/snow belt states Vibes earlier than say 2007 should be avoided,due to this possible issue?

[Nasmfell]

Fixing rusted floor board 2003 -2008 Vibe, not sure if the 09-10 had similar design. Came across an access point to the frame rails that needs attention for anyone living in an area that uses salt. Once the carpet is removed, under the front sound dampening panel are two access panels on each side. Once panels are removed, they allow interior access to the frame rails. Due to the way frame rail is welded, their is a gap that allows water/salt to splash into this interior crevice causing rust. In the pictures you can see how it has rusted the welded seams and around the drain plugs. Under both rear passenger areas is another weld gap where two sections of frame rail come together. Their is a drain plug in the passenger floor board that is close to this seam, which could allow rust preventive product to be dumped into the frame rail.

In the GM catalog they are called Dash Panel Cover. On my Vibe the driver side panels were so bad, the placement tabs had started to rust off. Some GM dealerships show these panels available for $5-$18 each.
Front driver access panels.
Top panel part: . . .88970777 DASH PANEL HOLE COVER, LEFT
Bottom panel part: 88970778 DASH PANEL COVER (same left or right)

vibe_dash_covers_floor_driver.jpg

Front passenger access panels.
Top panel part: . . .88970776 DASH PANEL HOLE COVER, RIGHT
Bottom panel part: 88970778 DASH PANEL COVER

vibe_dash_covers_floor_pass.jpg

On both the passenger and driver side, it appears water/gunk gets trapped in this frame rail compartment. As it tries to evaporate, condensation and splatter collect around these panels, causing rust. The sound dampening material on top helps trap the moisture.

Will post additional pictures of the seam gaps and rear drain plug access.

Thank you for the heads up with this issue.

[Derf]

Cost cutting? Salt/snow belt states Vibes earlier than say 2007 should be avoided,due to this possible issue?

Not avoided, but aware. Body rust on most Vibes is a minimal issue, the designers did a good job making the body rust resistant. A the same time they did some not so smart things like creating inaccessible chambers open to the elements. Had they simply shaped a few parts better or added a few welds, their would be no issue. The metal in the frame rails is thick, it would take it a while to rust through. It is the damage to the floor pan and adjoining metal surfaces that is the immediate issue. My Vibe has just over 200k miles at this point, I think lower mileage vehicles would fare better. Wanted to give existing or soon to be Vibe owners a heads up on this relatively unexplored part of the car. So they can make it part of a routine inspection to head of long term rust issues.

[Nasmfell]

Cost cutting? Salt/snow belt states Vibes earlier than say 2007 should be avoided,due to this possible issue?

Not avoided, but aware. Body rust on most Vibes is a minimal issue, the designers did a good job making the body rust resistant. A the same time they did some not so smart things like creating inaccessible chambers open to the elements. Had they simply shaped a few parts better or added a few welds, their would be no issue. The metal in the frame rails is thick, it would take it a while to rust through. It is the damage to the floor pan and adjoining metal surfaces that is the immediate issue. My Vibe has just over 200k miles at this point, I think lower mileage vehicles would fare better. Wanted to give existing or soon to be Vibe owners a heads up on this relatively unexplored part of the car. So they can make it part of a routine inspection to head of long term rust issues.

Thank you again for this thread. Many snowbelt states, like Ohio, use calcium chloride for ice removal as well, especially those exposed to lake effect snow. I guess owned or a used car shopper would have to inspect the undercarriage very carefully? I do notice the small number of earlier 2003-2004 Vibes offered for sale on Autotrader in Northeast Ohio.

[Derf]

The calcium chloride is bad, but what is worse the they take the salt add calcium chloride then add water to make a brine solution. Then to top it off, they add beet juice or sugar byproducts to make it stick to the road.... and your car. So now you have a rust/corrosion problem that sticks with you. Once that cocktail sticks to your aluminum rims, you will be into the tire shop for sure, having rim beads cleaned and tires remounted.

Wish our state would do like others and use mostly sand with a little salt. Its cheaper and easier on vehicles.

[ctgottapee]

I got a 2nd gen driven in Michigan for 220k and overall they did an excellent job in most areas in comparison to similar priced vehicles (the vibe was in the value end). The underbody seam sealing look pretty thorough. The exhaust system held up too.

There are various little pieces that were overlooked, nothing serious and nothing probably not typical elsewhere.

In my case, probably the only thing I would ding the designers with are the door hinges. Quite a bit of rust there.
The aluminum rims, as mentioned prior, may lose their bead seal; I had to have one tire serviced already. It's inexpensive but takes shop time.

[Nasmfell]

The calcium chloride is bad, but what is worse the they take the salt add calcium chloride then add water to make a brine solution. Then to top it off, they add beet juice or sugar byproducts to make it stick to the road.... and your car. So now you have a rust/corrosion problem that sticks with you. Once that cocktail sticks to your aluminum rims, you will be into the tire shop for sure, having rim beads cleaned and tires remounted.

Wish our state would do like others and use mostly sand with a little salt. Its cheaper and easier on vehicles.

That would be nice, but there is profit and job security when roads have to be repaired every year and more vehicles bought due to the use of these products,

[Nasmfell]

The calcium chloride is bad, but what is worse the they take the salt add calcium chloride then add water to make a brine solution. Then to top it off, they add beet juice or sugar byproducts to make it stick to the road.... and your car. So now you have a rust/corrosion problem that sticks with you. Once that cocktail sticks to your aluminum rims, you will be into the tire shop for sure, having rim beads cleaned and tires remounted.

Wish our state would do like others and use mostly sand with a little salt. Its cheaper and easier on vehicles.

That would be nice, but there is profit and job security when roads have to be repaired every year and more vehicles bought due to the use of these products.

There is probably some truth to this, Our newspaper delivery driver drove a 2003 or 2004 Vibe. He now delivers the newspapers in an Elantra.

[Derf]

In my case, probably the only thing I would ding the designers with are the door hinges.

Double checked, mine are still clean. Do you have any pics of the rust? Curious if they are rusting from the outside, or from pins rubbing inside the hinge.

[ctgottapee]

In my case, probably the only thing I would ding the designers with are the door hinges.

Double checked, mine are still clean. Do you have any pics of the rust? Curious if they are rusting from the outside, or from pins rubbing inside the hinge.

I already cleaned them up. I'm 2009 gen2

Mostly inside, pins rubbing on the main hinges, paint flaking.
And the slider hinge attachment appears to be of inferior metal and rusted